This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Founder & Laminitis an Overview »
  Discussion on Recurring Spring Founder
Author Message
New Member:
toranada

Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 3:40 am:

Hello Everyone

I was wondering if anyone has run into the same problem with their horse as I have. My horse (Ghost)foundered in March 2007, RF 10 degree rotation. He was not overweight (hard keeper), had been in a dry lot since March 2005 (mild laminitis attack). All vaccinations are done in November. He's worked 45 min/day 6 days/wk, slightly less over Dec./Jan.

We thought it could be his feeding program, we changed everything to low s/s, added quite a few supplements as directed by the equine nutritionist. Ghost rebounded very quickly (mid May 2007). He was back showing lightly in Sept.2007. He was worked thru winter and into the new year, no signs of soreness.

March 2008, he foundered again, RF 10 1/2 and LF 11 degree rotation. Believe or not he's rebounded again, no sign of soreness. The other day he jumped a 4 foot fence to be with his buddy. Ghost is not a jumper. We have done everything we can think of and still haven't been able to find the cause. If anyone has any suggestions,I'd appreciate hearing them.

Maureen
Member:
frances

Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 7:57 am:

Hi Maureen,

Hmmm, hard keeper, no pasture, not overweight, no recent vaccinations, feed suitable for laminitis-prone horse ... the only factor I can think of that's not ruled out is concussion: what's the footing like in your arena?

But still, why in March both times? Are you quite sure he doesn't sneak out and gorge on spring grass? And why the quick recovery times? Very strange.

I hope you get to the bottom of this.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 9:01 am:

Yes The only thing I can come up with is, is he cushings? Spring seems to set them off...how old is he? Are you sure there is NO grass of weeds in the dry lot? Last year when I had Hank in the dry lot, just little sprigs of almost non-existent weeds and grass was setting him off. I had to put him in the paddock with absolutely no green showing.

Could it be mechanical, does he tend towards the long toe low heel type confirmation? Thin soles?
Does he wear shoes year round?

Does he get extremely sore when going through the spring founder?

Horses do like to keep us guessing, the reason I joined this site years ago, is the same as yours. I had a mare who would founder every March, without fail. I never figured it out except maybe vaccinations.
New Member:
toranada

Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 2:30 am:

Ghost is 19 yrs old, he's boarded in a training barn. The arena is sand and his dry lot is sand. I've had tons of blood work done, did an ACTH baseline last year, was negative. He's shod with a pad which is injected with gel, toes are backed up and heels have been lowered, he's sound for 9-10 months out of a year. I did consider he could be pre cushings even though he shows no signs other then laminitis every March. I don't know if anyone has had any experience with seasonal hormonal transition,it was mentioned to me and I'm going to put him on pergolide next spring to see if it will control the laminitis and then gradually wean him off, once spring is over.

I'm telling you this has been driving me crazy, it's becoming an obsession with me.

Maureen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 2, 2008 - 9:29 am:

Hello Maureen,
Could you give us a detailed outline of the feeding program before the last founder episode? Weights and type of feed given over a 24 hours period are my main interest. Were there any changes in your exercise program or your horses condition just prior to this?

If this remains unexplained I like the pergolide idea but suspect if not Cushings (at that is not clear) there is something going on with the feed.
DrO
Member:
toranada

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 2, 2008 - 3:20 pm:

Hello Dr.O

Thank you for your response. This was Ghost's feeding program as of Mar.2008.
12-15 lbs. Blue Grass
4 lbs. Equi-Care (no grains/molasses)
6 lbs. Beet pulp (no molasses)
8 ozs. Rice Bran
8 ozs. Ground flax
Bran mash every Sunday (bran mixed with his pellets)
Supplements: 18 grams magnesium oxide, 18 grams bio chrome, 3 tbsp vitamin E with selenium, Farriers Aid (no sure of amount), 2tsp Gluquestrian Joint Supplement.

I have made some changes, as the laminitis would subside, then start again. So I removed the Rice Bran, bran mash and gluquestrian. Within 2 days of removing the rice bran he came sound and has stayed sound. Hard to say if it was the rice bran.
I have added 2 lbs Timothy Balanced hay cubes, 2 tbsp iodized salt, HA (joint supplement) and an ulcer prevention med (gut grease). I don't feed him any treats other then Skodes which are made for IR and Cushings horses.

Our training starts to pick up a bit in February but not excessive, we are just doing western pleasure (arab shows). I have even considered that it could be a stress related problem, our shows start every year in April.

Maureen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 3, 2008 - 7:05 am:

Hello Maureen, using the Henneke scale at Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Estimating Weight, Height, and Body Condition Scoring what you judge your horses body condition score as?
DrO
Member:
toranada

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 3, 2008 - 3:32 pm:

Hi Dr.O

Ghost's weight is 916 lbs.(weight tape), he's 15 hh, his condition would be a 4.

Maureen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 8:31 am:

All of the ribs are easily seen? Let me correct one of your earlier statements about no signs of Cushings. Your horse shows one of the major and most common sign of Cushings: a difficult keeper. I cannot explain the timing but think this diagnosis fits the facts as given above and nothing else fits well. For more on the diagnosis of Cushings see Diseases of Horses » Endocrine System » Cushing's SynDrOme and Pituitary Tumors.
DrO
Member:
toranada

Posted on Friday, Sep 5, 2008 - 2:10 am:

Hi Dr.O

His ribs are slightly visible, he is gaining weight back (lost 50 lbs during bout with laminitis). I have owned him since he was 8 yrs old, we have always tried to maintain his weight at around 960 lbs. He has always been fed quite a lot to keep this weight, it was easier when he could have turn out and richer hay.

Thank you for your interest and thoughts. I will have him tested again for Cushings, negative or positive, I'm going to try the pergolide come February.
Maureen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 5, 2008 - 8:14 am:

Before you spend a lot of money on testing, I suggest you carefully read the diagnosis section of the Cushings article.
DrO
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC