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  Discussion on Teeth grinding and ulcers?
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New Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 1:17 pm:

Hi-

I have a new horse who is grinding his teeth quite a bit. Several people think he has an ulcer and that is the main symptom. I don't know how concerned I should be. The cost to do a full course of Gastroguard is prohibitive.

Here is some background:

The horse is a TB gelding off the track about 1 yr. He has been at a local sale/training barn between May 2004 and April 2005, when I bought him. I've had the horse about 6 weeks. I visited and/or rode him about 8 times before I purchased him. I don't recall any teeth grinding in his old home. He started grinding when he got to my barn (only about a 45 min ride in the trailer) but I can't recall if it was instant, or took a few days to start.

In his old home, he was in his stall all day except for 1.5 hrs turnout in a dirt paddock, and when he was ridden, 4-6 times/week. He was fed a noon-time meal.

At his current home, he is turned out 8 hours per day, right now alone, but with horses on either side. No grass. No lunch.

When he had been here 10 days, we put him out with a mixed herd and he promptly got kicked and had a gash. He was on antibiotics, bute, and I had to perfuse the wound with iodine 2x/day for about 8 days. He was a good patient, but clearly not happy with all this.

During his recovery, he was able to go out on grass. During that time, he had 2 episodes of what appeared to be mild colic (hunched over, not responsive, not eating) which he got over on his own by the time I arrived- about an hour, and then seemed normal. Another behavior maybe I should mention- he likes to lay down in his paddock- flat out. Yesterday, when he got up, he seemed fine- no indication of colic. His manure has been pretty loose the whole time I've had him, both with and without grass.

Except for those 2 brief episodes, he eats well, both hay and grain.

Other than the teeth grindng, he seems to be finding his new home stressful. He is not as quiet or as obedient as he was as his old home; he's more sensitive and girthy. The grinding varies day to day- sometimes he hardly grinds at all, sometimes constantly in the cross-ties or under saddle. Never (as far as I can tell) when he is alone in his stall or in his paddock.

He had a professional massage last week. He muscles were very tight (typical ex-racehorse), but he wasn't anywhere sore; his saddle seems to fit well.

I would love to have him back out on grass, but right now he can only be on grass if he can join the herd.

The barn manager, who is one of the ones that thinks the grinding is caused by an ucler, has suggested switching him from his pelleted feed and sweet feed to oats and corn oil. Would that help? Would a flake of hay at lunch help? If so, is there a preferred kind? Eventually, he will go out with the herd, and will have plenty of grass. Should I wait to see if he improves (the grinding) after a month or so on grass?

I'm doing some natural-horseman style halter work with him, (I'm not very experienced) but it seems to be helping with the girthing, and his general attitude, or maybe he just gettting used to his new home! I'm taking him to a 2-day Parelli workshop in June.

Any other thoughts or advice on the ucler question or the teeth grinding???

Many thanks!!!!

-Heidi
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 6:32 am:

Hello Heidi,
The article on gastric ulcers. gives many suggestions including less expensive treatment options and dietary recommendations.
DrO
New Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 8:34 am:

Dr O-

Yes, I read the article before I wrote my posting.

So, you agree that my horse likely has an ulcer, and that the teeth grinding is a symptom? Other than that, I'm not sure he has any symptoms. What if the teeth grinding does not stop?? Horses sometimes grind teeth for other reasons, right?

thanks, Heidi
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 12:43 pm:

Yes, I know several horses that appear to do it from boredom and have no symptoms of disease. If you wanted to try a regimen of ranitidine (dosage in the article) it would not be very expensive and you should see results within a week.
DrO
Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 9:57 am:

Hi, Dr. O-

I'm still dealing with the teeth grinding and ulcer with Rafe. Let me bring you up to date: His behavior got worse; specifically, he was very balky under saddle, not moving forward, violently tossing his head. I did wind up having him scoped, he had many ulcers (grade 3), clearly had them a while, but fortunately none were perforated. I did a full course of gastrogard, during which he also had a bad abcess. Once the abcess was healed and the gastrogard was done, he seemed MUCH better, esp. under saddle. Grinding was much reduced. After a couple of weeks, the grinding came back, so I put him on 1/4 dose of gastrogard per day for 2 weeks. That helped, but again after being w/o meds for 2 weeks, the grinding returned- but mostly just when being groomed and having his sides touched. A second 2 weeks of 1/4 gastrogard doesn't seem to be helping.

He only grinds a little under saddle (I've been to dressage shows and seen MUCH more grinding then he does when ridden), but very emphatically when being touched almost anywhere on his body or neck (legs and head are OK). He pins his ears and snaps- clearly a very unhappy horse.

I can't just ignore this, even though now he is a very nice riding horse.

I was going to give ranitidine a try, but my dosage calculations may be off. For a 544 kg horse, he would need about 7 mg per dose. Thats 3808 mg, and each pill is 150 mg, so each dose would be about 25 pills. (At Walmart prices, thats about $18/day.) Can you confirm this dosage? Also- how important is it that the horse get the medicine at exactly 8 hour intervals? Thats nearly impossible for me to do.

Do you agree that the grindng is the result of a partially healed ulcer, even though he is so much better under saddle? I would think that the "sloshing" of acid doing gait transitions would be much more painful than being brushed!

I simply don't know what to think, and the cost of the gastrogard is giving ME an ulcer (not mention insomnia and marital problems)!

Thanks for your advice!!!!!! -Heidi
Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 10:00 am:

Oops- I meant 7 mg/kg gives 3808 mg per dose. -H
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 10:42 am:

Heidi,
We went thru the same type of scenario with one of our mares (Mona) for 8 years. She was treated at Marion duPont Scott Equine Medical Center in Virginia, where Dr Murray was doing ulcer research. They scoped her, we treated her. They scoped her again and all but one small ulcer had healed. They said that horses will continue to heal on their own. That was the first time she was treated. She continued to have problems, was scoped, treated, but they kept coming back. She was treated for bleeding ulcers at Texas A&M. After each treatment, she was better and the vets were stumped as to why she kept getting them. Finally Dr Murray scoped her, we treated her for six weeks, then rescoped her. She was mostly healed, but instead of expecting them to continue healing on their own, he had us continue treatment for, I think, another two weeks, then scoped her again. She was completely healed, so they then scoped her once a month for a couple of months, then every two months, for a total of about 8 months, and she came up clean every time. Dr Murray said that they discovered that some horses just don't completely heal with just the normal treatment regime. They appear to be fine, but apparently the ulcers are still there. He also said that a great percentage of horses have ulcers at one time or another, but show no symptoms, and the ulcers heal on their own. Mona has been symptom free since that last treatment with Dr Murray, approximately 6-7 years ago. I guess what I'm trying to say is that your horse may not be healing completely each time you treat him. He gets better, but may still have the ulcers. The only way I know to tell for sure is to have him scoped again. It may be a bit expensive, but not as expensive as 8 years of treatment. I don't know if this is your horse's problem. Just letting you know about Mona's experience. Good luck.
Kathleen
Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 3:04 pm:

Kathleen-

Thanks for your note! Its very good to hear that some seemingly chronic ulcers CAN be cured. I have been reading some posts from people who have their horses on gastrogard all the time, indefinitely - made my heart sink. I simply can't afford that. So, you did another full course of gastrogard (a month? 6 weeks?)? Also, what were the symptoms when you thought the ulcers came back?

Thanks, Heidi
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 7:29 pm:

Heidi,
Gastrogard had just come out when we treated her last. We used ranitidine I think. It seems that the main thing is to make sure that the ulcers are truly gone before you stop treatment. We did 6 weeks, then another 2-3 weeks. I used Gastrogard (a couple of years after her last bout of ulcers) when we moved her back to Texas. Traveling was one of the things that was very stressful for her, so we gave it one week before and one week after shipping. Her main symptom that we knew meant she was uncomfortable was, she would stretch down like a cat - her front end down and her butt in the air. She would do it with me on her too. She colicked on the trail twice due to ulcers also. She never went off feed, even with the bleeding ulcers. She did one thing that we thought was weird. She was fed timothy hay and alfalfa, and she would sometimes eat the timothy and leave the alfalfa. Sometimes the other way around.

If ranitidine works, I would use it instead of the Gastrogard, especially if you have to use it long term. Also, make sure you give enough of it. When Dr Murray started treating her, they had a learning curve as to the dosage and we were under dosing. And again, the only way I know to be sure the ulcers are gone is to scope again.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Kathleen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 10, 2005 - 8:53 am:

Yes your calculations look correct and I wonder if a large bottle of generic prescription from your vet or bought through WalMart might be cheaper. Yes 8 hour dosing is important. I do think it is likely the cheaper Ulcergard would be as effective as Gastrogard when used at Gastrogard dosages.
DrO
Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Monday, Nov 14, 2005 - 1:58 pm:

Thanks, Dr O! I'll let you know how things turn out. -Heidi
New Member:
Wthrail

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 15, 2005 - 10:14 am:

Heidi,

In my experience with the OTTB they can have some bad habits that are brought on by change or anxiety about something. The more your horse gets to know you and trusts you the better he should get. Mine will crib when you are in the barn or around-its like he is anticipating what will happen next-worrying about it. Certain things will trigger behaviors relating to the time they spent on the track and in its environment. Hopefully the ulcers will go away with treatment and the longer you have your horse in an environment he enjoys. My horse tries to anticipate everything-he wants to please and do the right thing. He is afraid of being bad. He can be defensive when he is afraid. It is quite interesting-the things he has learned that are new to him-he does very well and with eagerness-with the things he associates his past with he tries to avoid. You really have to retrain the OTTB like they were never trained before. Everything new. You should have alot of success with the Parelli horsemanship. Some of my friends have made great progress using it. One of them rides her OTTB in a Parelli halter-even on the trail. Good luck and don't give up.
Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 27, 2005 - 11:36 am:

Wendy-

Sorry I haven't been keeping up with this thread. Thanks for the encouragement! I think we are making progress, and the Parelli stuff has been very helpful. What you say about certain triggers that remind your horse of the racetrack environment bringing on anxiety may well be a factor for me. My horse still grinds- but I pretty sure its not ulcer-related, at least not usually. The other day we were having a nice walk around an old racetrack on our barn's property. With the snow, it barely looks like a track. Rafe was totally fine and relaxed. But, when we approached the old judging stand, from the racing direction ONLY (didnt' look twice when we passed it going to the right), he started grinding like mad, pinning his ears, and tossing his head. Did he think we were going to go for a gallop? Hopefully, he will learn not to anticipate stress!

-Heidi
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 4, 2006 - 7:32 am:

Heidi, delighted your horse is doing a bit better. Let us know if anything changes.

I have moved Diane's post into a new discussion under Gastric Ulcers, see Odd behavior and ulcers?.
DrO
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 4, 2006 - 10:28 am:

When they yawn, I think they are experiencing a pain somewhere, whether they are having a pain in the mouth or a pain in the stomach. Just my observation. It isn't that they are tired and yawn like we do. EO
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 11, 2006 - 4:11 am:

Dear Heidi,

When I first met my horse he was horrible. He would grind his teeth while riding. He had the worst ground manners imaginable. He killed a groom as a yearling at the Thoroughbred Corp.

Biting, striking, kicking, bolting, rearing, whatever he could do to harsh my day.

Long story short he was taken off of alfalfa for about a year and a half. This seem to help immensely.

Two things never changed, #1 every time I put the bridle on my horse he opens his mouth really wide as if he is stretching his jaw over and over until I secure the DrOp nose band.

We have used every bit from a D ring to a loose ring to a hackamore to a now 3 ring gag with the rein on the snaffle ring.

I somehow feel this is his ritual for warming the bit. Maybe I am crazy. He does not feel uncomfortable in any way.

He goes very well in the current rig. Yet he still will yawn-stretch with the bridle in his mouth for about 5-8 minutes. It is more like play. As if it is a game.

#2 He hates to be brushed.(Except on his head-loves it) Any time I brush him he will grind his teeth or stomp the ground or try to bite me until I stop brushing him.

He can be so nasty on the ground. However when I am on him he is perfect and will do any thing I ask.

Does this mean he has ulcers? He has done this since I have known him for the last six years. I have asked the vet about this behavior. He says the horse is just sensitive.

Although his performance(energy while jumping)in the ring has improved 100% since last blood test in Oct 2005(when he was practically lethargic)..

I am now wondering if he has ulcers because of this sensitivity? Someone please tell me I am wrong. Dr.O?

He has always been wormed and properly rotated annually. Vaccinations have been up to date for the last six years. Never over worked, minimal to no stress in his life as he has not been to a show since November 2003.

His behavior on the ground has gotten worse since he has been back on alfalfa being given due to his Anemia.

We began to take steps to increase his hemacrit levels such as slowly adding alfalfa to his diet over the course of three months. As well as adding a couple of iron and vitamin supplements to bolster his immune system.

He has been high as a kite jumping a foot over everything the last two weeks. I even had to lower some of the fences today because he thought they were higher.

I hope that means he is feeling better. I did give him 2 days off for the weekend. So he was pretty fresh.

New blood test next month so we will see. Is there a blood test for ulcers?

He no longer grinds his teeth while we ride. That stopped years ago. Occasionally he will grind at me while I brush him, but it is worse now that he is on alfalfa.

Should I have him on some other kind of hay? I have read all of your information on nutrition Dr.O.

Thank you,

WTG
Member:
Contilli

Posted on Saturday, Jan 14, 2006 - 6:51 pm:

Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association
November 15, 2005, Vol. 227, No. 10, Pages 1636-1639
doi:10.2460/javma.2005.227.1636



Effects of treatment with omeprazole or ranitidine on gastric squamous ulceration in racing Thoroughbreds

Dr. Guy D. Lester, BVMS, PhD, DACVIMRachael L. Smith, BVScIan D. Robertson, BVSc, PhD
School of Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences, Division of Health Sciences, Murdoch University, Murdoch 6150 Western Australia. (Lester, Smith, Robertson)
Objective—To compare the effects of oral administration of omeprazole and ranitidine on gastric squamous ulceration in Thoroughbreds in race training.

Design—Modified crossover study.

Animals—60 Thoroughbreds in race training with gastric squamous mucosal ulceration.

Procedure—Horses were randomly allocated into 3 groups. Group 1 received no treatment for 28 days followed by administration of omeprazole (4 mg/kg [1.8 mg/lb], PO, once daily) for 28 days; group 2 received omeprazole (4 mg/kg, PO, once daily) for 28 days followed by no treatment for 28 days; and group 3 received ranitidine (6.6 mg/kg [3.0 mg/lb], PO, q 8 h) for 28 days followed by administration of omeprazole (4 mg/kg, PO, once daily) for 28 days. Ulceration was assessed endoscopically at days 0, 28, 42, and 56. Lesions were scored from 0 (no ulceration) to 3 (severe ulceration).

Results—After the initial 28 days of treatment, the decrease in ulcer severity was significantly greater after omeprazole treatment than after ranitidine treatment. Ulcer severity decreased significantly in group 3 horses after 14 days of treatment with omeprazole. Discontinuation of omeprazole resulted in worsening of ulcer scores; however, ulcer scores at completion of the study were less than at day 0. Horses that received omeprazole after 28 days of ranitidine treatment had a further reduction in ulcer severity.

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Omeprazole was more effective than ranitidine in healing gastric squamous ulcers in Thoroughbreds in race training. Improvement was detected by 14 days and persisted in most of the group 2 horses for at least 28 days after omeprazole treatment was discontinued. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2005;227:1636–1639)
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