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  Discussion on Short term use of pergolide?
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Member:
redalert

Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 10:48 am:

Hey everyone and DrO
I have a horse who has foundered(three weeks ago, now)... he does have some rotation, and his bloodwork did show elevated levels of insulin. Now, if I understand what I have already read here in the overview of founder and laminitis, it is no good to test (for a diagnosis of IR) during the founder episode. I understand that, however, since his levels are high at this moment, would Pergolide be helpful in bringing the founder/laminitis under control? It has been suggested by the vet who did his xrays and sent off his bloodwork. I have cut his rations way down (and, yes he was overfed and gettin fat). I have had his feet trimmed so that his toes do not bear all the weight, rocked him back on his heels, am keeping him in a deeply bedded stall during the day, giving him bute, Ace Promazine(due to reading the article in HA, and asking the vet about it), and Banamine when needed... has not needed any for a week until he felt good and ran from his outside pen around the property yesterday morning! I was letting him walk himself from his pen into his stall by himself every morning... NO MORE of that!
Sorry for the "backtracking" in my post, but just wanted to give a bit of history on what is going on! I could not seem to find anything about short term use of Pergolide.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice from you all who have had experience with this, and to DrO who always has great answers!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 3:55 pm:

Hi Nancy, just from my personal experience with founder, getting the diet and trimming right will help way more than pergolide. Does your vet think he has cushings?

My vet once asked if I wanted to try pergolide with Hank and it was very tempting, but I decided if he was improving then getting his diet & trim right was more important....but would have tried it in a last ditch effort!

Sounds like he is improving, if he felt good enough to run around...hope that didn't set him back!
Member:
redalert

Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 5:27 pm:

Hey Dianne... thanks for your response. I guess I am wondering if, besides the trimming and diet improvement, he could use the Pergolide to help "stabilize" his insulin, until all the effects of a new foot and a new diet kick in. It looks to me that Pergolide is used in insulin resistant horses, who would not get better with just diet and trimming? And, so am wondering if my horse is not IR, which we have not tested for yet, could I still use Pergolide for a short while?
And, yes he was definitely improving until he ran around. He is paying for it today! I really HOPE that he will be sound enough to run around without facing the consequences in the future! Are you able to ride your horse? Oh, he does not look like a cushings horse, if I understand the literature about the Cushings horses... He is an easy keeper, great hooves, beautiful coat, cresty neck, but his fat is "evenly distubuted" otherwise !
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 6:08 pm:

Hank had 8 degree rotation and I was able to ride him LIGHTLY 6 mos. after his founder. Right now he is 100% sound with shoes and usually ok barefoot. Unfortunately there is no quick fix for founder. His insulin was high also.

Your description in the last sentence of your post is Hank (except the good hooves part) I think figuring out your horses diet will help way more than the pergolide, Once Hank took off 100#'s he started doing wonderfully, I took nearly 300#'s off of him total and it is still a constant battle.

Hank also had a gallop around the field when recovering and that set him back weeks!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 9:38 am:

Hello Nancy,
If the horse has Cushings related founder pergolide should be considered but in those cases they normally will not control well without it. I am not sure your horse falls into this category. Pergolide as a short term treatment for acute founder of other causes is not studied and I have not experimented with this.
DrO
Member:
redalert

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 10:12 am:

Hey DrO
That explains why I cannot find any info. on it! Please excuse my ignorance(inability to figure out at this point) the literature on IR, Founder/Laminitis, Cushings! Am I reading it right when I say that there are differences in Cushings horses and IR horses? Or are they both just horses whose bodies react different ways to being insulin resistant? That my horse could be one or the other, or that his case of founder could just be a case of overfeeding while being stressed out in training. Is there a difference in the three things? Which should be treated by the use of Pergolide? I will, of course, change everything that I have control over, to help him, but, what should I look for to include the addition of this drug? Thanks in advance for your answer... I have read and re read the articles, but I am a novice with this problem(and HOPE to understand enough to make a decision that I know is the right decision cc the treatment of my horse).
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 17, 2008 - 2:43 pm:

Insulin resistance is a metabolic condition where the cells of the body do not react to insulin as well as they should. In humans this is called type 2 diabetes. In horses is is associated with several different conditions in horses including Cushings, Equine Metabolic SynDrOme and I believe that some horse breeds are just naturally more IR like ponies and Morgans.

Those horses with pituitary adenoma (Equine Cushings) may require pergolide for proper treatment of some of the symptoms of EC and the article on Cushings explains the indications for it.
DrO
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