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Discussion on Second opinion on treatment / prognosis please
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New Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 21, 2008 - 7:08 pm:
Hello,
I'm sorry if these questions are all answered elsewhere - I did some searches but wasn't sure what is pertinent to our case.
History -
17 yo arab mare. Foundered with slight rotation in April 2006. Vet suspected vaccinations as cause? Abcsessed both fronts and has been sound since. After this incident she went from easy keeper to extremely difficult keeper but was doing well on grass hay and 6-8 lbs fat/fiber feed plus vitamins and flax-based hard keeper supplement.
She is shod in front, booted in back for our weekly jaunt on the trails. Condition is on the thin side but healthy. She has sweet itch, sensitive skin, and a strange condition that causes her uterus to stay rock hard almost all the time.
August 7, 08 is is trimmed as usual. 2 weeks later she is stumbly during a ride but the road is rocky so we don't think anything of it. A week later she comes up slightly off in right front. Farrier finds sharp stone very deep by the frog. Abscess breaks through heel 3 days later and she seems better. 2 days later she comes up dead lame (three legged) on the LEFT foot. I call out the vet who poultices both feet and gives her a tetnus booster. The next day she can't move on either front. Vet prescribes bute and penicillin over the phone and she improves slightly.
My normal vet returns from vacation 2 days later and I ask him to come and look at her and take rads of feet because I am suspicious and she isn't improving anymore. He immediately diagnoses laminitis, feet have rotated further. Prescribes bute 5 days on / 3 days off and ice clay poultice to coronet 12 hours on / 12 hours off. Confined to stall in deep bedding. Remove all feed except soaked grass hay and a handful of hay pellets (to keep her thinking she is getting grain and to give medicine). He also diagnoses her as hypothyroid. She is prescribed levothyroxine and we put her on a lamnitis supplement. The farrier arrives 2 days later and refits her feet with thick pads and egg bar shoes. Her sole is remarkably thick but she is very sunken in at coronet.
Does this treatment plan sound appropriate (I understand you cannot provide more than a general idea without seeing the horse but I want to know if we are moving in the right direction). And if so, when should I expect to see improvement? On bute she is hesitant to move but walks ok on soft ground with no turns. Without bute she is very very tender and immobile but still only lies down at night. She has not assumed the full rocking horse stance but is clearly in some pain. I am most curious about the bute on/off - she is being given 2 g twice a day. If she is still in such pain without it should I be taking her off it at all? Is the clay poultice a good idea? I hadn't heard of that. I am also running cold water over her feet and using ice boots.
Thank you very much,
kaarina
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 6:38 am:
Hi kaarina and welcome to HA, I have dealt with founder also. Dr.O. can help you more with it, but I see you had her shod. I also had my horse shod with pads when he was acute and it made him worse. (Dr.O. warned me) I had his shoes removed after a couple days and used boots with pads and sometimes styrofoam, he was much more comfortable, once he stabilized (3 mos.) I again had him shod with a wide web shoe and equipak and he did wonderful.
My vet also recommended "pulsating" bute 4 a day for a week...3 a day for a week....2 a day for a week and see how he would do. Banamine actually made him more comfortable, but every horse is different. I also learned the hard way if they don't want to move...don't move them.
Good Luck with your horse
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New Member:
kathyr
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 7:07 am:
Kaarina
I have also dealt with devastating founder on a young but upper level dressage horse with a 15 degree rotation. Yes 15 degrees! It was very bad... I would highly recommend getting to an Equine Podiatrist. I think that is what saved my horse who is back in full work. They are vets who specialize in the feet. They used some sort of elevator shoe on her for the first few weeks - like a wedge that lifted her heal off the ground. It was not nailed on. Then very careful shoeing that was coordinated with x-rays to align the bone angles. If you are anywhere near Lexington KY - Scott Morrison is probably the best in the country at Rood and Riddle. In NC - Dr. Mannsman at NC State is outstanding. I'm sure there are many other good ones but you will have to find them as I don't think there are alot of them around. We DrOve 15 hrs to Dr. Morrison for a different horse and it was worth every gallon of gas!
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New Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 8:35 am:
hi all, thank for the good luck and your stories! It is good to hear that some have come back. my only other experience with severe founder was with a horse who, despite almost 30k in specialized treatment had to be put down after 9 months. I am frankly terrified and every vet or farrier I talk to tells me to do something different. I don't even care if I can't ride her ever again, I just want her to be able to walk without pain.
the pads and egg bar shoes actually showed improvement overnight, though today she is the worst I've seen her - probably has more to do with it being the end of the 3 days off bute cycle and she HURTS. she's back on the 4 g a day regimine for 5 days now and hopefully she will show some improvement. my poor girl, amazingly she is still pretty perky and chatty. she just can't move. I'm certainly going to look for a podiatrist and see if I can get my farrier to work with him (opinionated guy, my farrier).
how long does the acute stage last?
and I'm having my hay tested but what are the 'safe levels' I'm looking for?
thanks again for the support
kaarina
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 10:19 am:
Welcome tamara,
Rather than review the recommended treatment again here let me refer you to Founder & Laminitis an Overview that describes what I believe to be appropriate treatment. Treatment is based somewhat on severity of rotation so that information is important. It is accessible from the link on the navigation bar above.
In general what you describe sounds about right with these exceptions: Why is the horse being taken off the bute periodically and why is the horse being walked around outside the stall? Concerning the poultice and the thyroid medicine I am uncertain but suspect they will not cause harm. For more on hypothyroidism in horses see Diseases of Horses » Endocrine System » Hypothyroidism in Adult Equines.
Concerning measurement of your hay for suitability to feed to a horse prone to founder see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Forage (Spring and Fall Pasture) Associated Founder.
Since we do not know the severity of the rotation it is impossible for us to prognose the future and even with knowing the degree of rotation it is the rate of change of rotation that gives the best prognostic information.
DrO
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New Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 12:38 pm:
Thank you very much for your reply DrO,
My vet wanted her off bute for a period every 5 days because he says that bute can damage her kidneys and stomach. But I can't stand seeing her in such pain off it, I wonder if I could ask about the pulsing method diane mentioned of 4 a day for a week, then 3, then 2 instead of the cold turkey method which frankly seems cruel.
The poultice was, I believe, meant to help bring any latent abcsesses to the surface and reduce swelling but every time I do it she seems worse afterward so I plan to ask my vet if I can stop. The walking is only to pull her out of the stall to the washrack right next to it so I can hose her feet without soaking the bedding.
I will certainly read the links you suggested and try to get more information on her current degree of rotation...
Thank you again
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 5:43 pm:
kaarina just from my experiences with founder (and every horse is different) the acute stage is variable. (of course depending on rotation) When you say she is sunken at the cornet band, do you mean there is a depression there? I know from studying about founder for days, that can mean her coffin bone sunk (not to alarm you) I could be wrong but you may want to ask your vet or maybe Dr.O. knows.
My horse was also better with the shoes and pads the first day, the next day he was horrible. What kind of pads does she have? She could have sole pressure from the pads and shoes.
The old mac boots with the comfort pads made my horse Much much more comfortable.
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New Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 6:33 pm:
hi diane,
I'm pretty sure she did sink a bit, the vet noticed the the sole, while quite thick, is curved out instead of curved in so there is definitely pressure from the coffin bone. my farrier put some very thick rubber pads on I think and underneath some goo that smelled very strong like ben gay or eucalyptus... he said it provides additional relief for 3 days and then acts as a support until he replaces the shoes next. He is coming back later this week to check on her and make sure there isn't pressure where there shouldn't be.
On the upside, she is moving like a new horse tonight after getting back on a couple of grams of bute. I went down to give her dinner and she was circling her stall like a happy puppy.
I'm going to take a peek at those old macs now... my husband can't understand why there is no "anti-laminitis" injection yet that just stops the progress of the disease in its tracks. maybe some day? tho is sounds from the article like the damage is done before you even realize it is upon you.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 7:02 pm:
That's good news Just be sure and not be fooled by the bute, it has happened to many of us, the horse feels good and does more damage by running around, so don't be tempted to let her move around much until she is better WITHOUT the bute. I kept my guy locked in a small dry pen with his boots. He could move around at will, but not enough room to do something stupid. He rotated 8 degress in both fronts with a little sinking, I was able to ride him 6 mos. later lightly. His hooves are still a struggle and barefoot is iffy. Right now he is barefoot and moving well....so there is hope
Good Luck and keep us updated, we all learn from each other
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New Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 9:07 pm:
good call on the bute, I think I'll just be keeping her in her 12x24 stall until she's this keen without so much painkiller...
I'll let y'all know how she is doing and thanks again
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2008 - 9:46 pm:
Tamara, thoughts and prayers for you and your girl. You have come to the right place as DrO is invaluable and it's nice to have the scientific based research information on horse care, not to mention other's sharing their experiences so they can help you get through yours. Welcome.
v/r
Corinne
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Member:
jchadola
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 12:55 am:
Hi Kaarina/Tamara (not sure which name to use). Sorry this is long but I feel your pain and confusion. You've come to the right place and Dr. O is so helpful. I see Diane is contributing to this discussion (which is so nice to see) as she did with my laminitis problems. It is so helpful. I understand exactly what you are going through Kaarina. My 8-year-old quarter horse got laminitis on July 14, 2008. I saw it mentioned here about getting different advice from everyone. That's been my problem - some say ride him, some say don't ride him, some say keep him in his stall, some say put him in the ring. My vet, who is no longer my vet, refused to come out when she not only was my vet but was also the vet on call on that Sunday plus she said she would come out if "it was serious". I don't know much about founder but my knowledge was there is no question it is serious and a vet shouldn't be giving advice over the phone when she hasn't seen him. She ended up being rude and coming out - he improved greatly the next day but before she developed the x-rays she took to sse if there was rotation she said to put him out in the ring for 1-3 hours. Shouldn't she at least have developed the x-rays first before saying to put him in the ring? I was told he'd be fine - what does "fine" mean in a horse who has laminitis? At this point 2 months later according to my current vet, he could be jumping. She took x-rays and they were excellent and there were no rings and there was no rotation - this was a couple of weeks ago. My horse's shoe came off (heartbar) a couple of weeks ago and when my farrier came out to put it back on, she said his foot looked good. When I pointed out the x-rays were excellent, she said basically not to fool myself - changes are happening in his feet. Despite all this advice about riding him, etc., I'm cautious and frustrated over all the different advice about what to feed, if he can be turned out in a ring, if and when he can be ridden, what the prognosis is, should he wear shoes or not - and I still don't know whom to listen to 2 months later. As I recall he was only on bute for a few days and my first vet said it was a "very" mild case of laminitis.
About shoes and pads, my farrier tried that and he was more uncomfortable than being barefoot so he was barefoot for a few days I believe then his heartbars were put back on a few days later (or his heartbars were put on right away - I can't recall for certain) and he is turned out every day now (at first it was 1-3 hours) with my 25-year-old thoroughbred with his muzzle on so he will not eat grass or much of it. He's ripped the rubber on I think 3 muzzles so far.
All horses are unique but still, you would think there would be some agreement on what is the right thing to do - some guidelines all vets agree on - instead of putting us through this hell of not knowing whom to listen to. Dr. O. makes the most sense. But that is likely contrary to some of the advice you are getting from your vets, Kaarina. So what do you tell your own vet when you follow someone else's advice? Personally, I think you do what you feel is the right thing taking into consideration all the advice from the vets and farriers and do what is best for your horse, and give weight to Dr. O's advice because he backs up what he says - whether your vet agrees or not - because it's your horse whom you love and you, not the vet, are going to be crying your eyes out if your horse is put down. I am not suggesting acting without advice but you end up in a tough spot like I am in when you are getting all kinds of advice. We are put in the position of somehow sorting through the advice and sorting out the good from the bad - what a horrid positiion to put a horse owner in. It's hard to decide what to do when you are not a vet with all the different advice but you get a lot of help, Kaarina, from Horse Advice and Dr. O.
I still don't know if I dare get on my horse. He hasn't been on bute for about 1-1/2 months and is (from how he acts) in no pain. About twice a week the lady who runs the place and I handwalk him and he wants to trot and I suspect canter but we won't let him.
I'm taking the cautious route - maybe too cautious - I don't know but I know I love this horse and would rather not ride for months than to hurt him more.
I've never heard of a horse podiatrist and don't know if they have them in Canada.
A lady in the U.K. recommended something called LaminShield Pure Mineral Feeding Stuff which contains magnesium phosphorus, sodium, sulphur, zinc, copper and iron. I think you are supposed to feed a pack a day for 28 days. I don't know whether to use it or not.
Anyone heard of it?
The best of luck Kaarina.
Janice
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 7:14 am:
tamara, to read more about the toxic potential of bute see, Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Phenylbutazone (Bute). For those worried about the toxic potential of bute consider flunixin (Banamine) which is considered less toxic. I have also considered experimenting with firocoxib, considered to be the least toxic of the three, in the less expensive canine form for prolonged founders.
Janice all of the minerals you list should be adequate in the diet of the horse and if not supplemented with the addition of a trace mineral block. I know of no therapeutic benefit to provide these in excess.
DrO
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 8:46 am:
Hi Tamara,
Personally I have never heard of taking a horse off Bute every few days during the course of treatment, especially treatment for something as serious and painful as laminitis. I find it very unreasonable to say the least.
The gradually diminishing dose is quite commonly recommended though I believe, and makes a lot more sense. A typical approach would be: 4gr per day for 3 days, 3gr per day for 3 days, 2gr per day for 3 days and then 1gr per day for a week or 10 days - all of this obviously depending on the problem, its severity and the progress made in healing.
All the best to you and your horse - do hope you're seeing some improvement.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 9:29 am:
Thank you for the information on Bute DrO. I will ask my vet about some other options if it looks like she may be a long term case (incidentally, what is "long-term"? We've been on varying doses for 2 weeks now). I am picking up my xrays today and will scan and post them for you to see, along with those taken last year.
Janice - I do feel your pain. It is terrible to be trying so hard to do the right thing and end up not feeling like you can do ANYTHING right. I am so glad to hear your horse seems to be doing better, he really sounds to me like he's well on the road to a full recovery.
My mare is doing ok on 4 g of bute a day, just tender when she makes turns in her stall. I'll keep her there for the next 4 days and then try taking her down a notch. Her feet still feel like fire though. As long as she hurts and her feet are burning she is in the acute phase correct? If the feet are hot is there still damage being done inside the foot? The articles talk about most damage being done early but I wasn't sure if she could still be rotating or sinking, which is of course scary. I have nightmares every night about pulling off the pads and seeing her coffin bone pushed through her sole.
Thanks again for being so supportive and helpful everyone, this is the best group I've ever talked to.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 10:23 am:
Once my horse reached his comfort level...for ex at 2 grams I kept him there, then would try one gram, if that didn't do the trick, he went back to two.
He was on bute at some sort of dosage for 3 months and we never had a problem, my vet said he would rather treat ulcers then have his coffin bone go thru the sole....couldn't argue with that!
He was also at his worst when his "feet were on fire" I guess that would be acute and damage still ongoing. When he was in that stage banamine seemed to help him more, I just got the paste so I wouldn't have to give shots
Once the "fire" started smoldering he went on bute. Sounds like your girl is probably still very painful. 4g is alot so don't let her fool you
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 12:41 pm:
I can relate to the frustration Janice has felt. It was explained to me that the treatment of laminitis is an "evolving science" and that is the reason there are so many opinions. From what I have read and been told, there is just an awful lot that isn't known about laminitis cause and treatment. It's almost as if each case is different. I think each vet advises what has proven to work for him/her, and if that doesn't work they then try "the latest" from what they have heard or read.
Like many, I've had to treat laminitic horses also. I've my vet's advice: "the stall rest with feet padded, bute immediately until there is not more soreness, take x-rays to follow rotation if any, then corrective trimming/shoeing " and had very good results. However, I recently had to take one of our horses to a specialist in Las Vegas for another problem (nothing to do with laminitis) and got into a discussion with him on treatment of laminitic horses, and his approach was quite different, especially when it came to the trimming and shoeing. One thing very different was his opposition to the heart bar shoe. His feeling was that very few people actually know how to put one on correctly, and when done wrong it can cause more damage. However, if done correctly
Libby had severe laminitis in her left front foot due to complications of her injury to her right front. At one point her laminitic foot was so bad the vets were concerned she could not recover and would have to be "put down." However, with persistent and aggressive care, she recovered. Her treatment included two different anti-inflamatories, aggressive trimming/cutting away of affected hoof wall, stall rest, special padding and wrapping of her hoof, then special pads and glue on shoes. She got lots of x-rays. (Her treatment was pretty much what was done for Barbaros.) Eventually, she was put into a glue-on
clog and is now sound in that foot. In her case feed was never an issue, so that hasn't been changed.
I guess my point is that with proper treatment your horse will recover; it will take time; and that there's "more than one way to skin a cat."
Best wishes for your horse's recovery. Be patient and go slow.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 4:31 pm:
Tamara, Here is a link to an article that might help you. Good luck to you and your horse.
https://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=11359
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 4:59 pm:
I too have had better luck with Banamine for some horses in the earlier stages, but they used to also prescribe some Bute in addition at a decreasing dosage, though I believe that is no longer in favor (too hard on the organs?). It sure worked good though. My farrier has brought horses back into full use even when the coffin bone did come through. It is so hard going through laminitis and you are doing all that you can for your mare and I certainly hope that you will have a good outcome.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 8:21 pm:
I picked up my xrays from the vet today and frankly I find them horrifying. The right is far worse than the left. Unfortunately the left is too dark to scan. The right barely shows up but I've posted it here along with the one taken of the same foot in feb 07 so you can see where it was and where it is now. No wonder she hurts.
This looks severe to me. What scares me most is the that she may still be coming down and around.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 9:45 pm:
Since we cannot visualize the whole shoe nor the wall accurately it is hard to say much about the last image, there does appear to be remarkable rotation but a better positioned radiograph clearly marking the front of the hoof wall is needed to say more.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 10:00 pm:
Looks like your vet takes x-rays like mine . It does help if you have markers on the hoof wall and appex of the frog. I don't know if this will help you but when posting x-rays I hang mine in a window (when the suns out) and take a picture of them.
Hopefully Dr.O. can give you some advice, but my horses x-rays looked similar, I thought his coffin bone was going to come right through his sole. I about fainted when I saw them.
IT APPEARS your horse has very thin soles also. If you would like to see my horses x-rays (to give you hope) they are in this post towards the bottom. Remember he is very sound to ride now! but it has been a long row to hoe. And of course every horse is different https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/3/282790.html
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 10:05 pm:
I forgot to ask what does you/your vet think caused this? Doesn't sound like she is fat or on grass?
Do you have pics of her hooves? Could it be mechanical or could she possibly have cushings? Finding the cause is part of the cure
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 10:50 pm:
I am going to ask my vet to come out again next week and re-xray and I'll be sure to ask him to mark the hoof wall and apex of the frog....
the left foot is also rotated but not nearly to the same degree, at least last monday. I'm not convinced that one was finished moving though and I'm nervous to see what it has done this week.
as for cause, we are all a bit floored. she has a cresty neck but is not at all fat and her grass was practically nill. we had a very very wet summer but I keep her on pea gravel and rubber mats. the vet threw out the possibility that maybe the wet summer affected her hoof condition and caused abscesses that lead to a total meltdown, though nothing ever came out of the left foot even with poulticing. She was lame on the right with an abscess for some time and maybe that triggered it? The farrier thinks the tetnus shot did her in. I'm at a loss unless it is our hay, which I put out for testing (am soaking what I give her now).
as for mechanical, that IS something I was curious about. Folks I showed pics to at the first sign said she was way underrun and her toes were far too long (despite being only 5 weeks off a trim). farrier has since redone the trim completely and brought her heels back. I'll try to post before / after pics.
If I can't figure out what caused it, how the heck do I stop it....
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 10:52 pm:
forgot to mention - vet ruled out cushings or IR but did find her to be barely detectable in the thyroid reading (a 3 and he said the range is 10-28) so she is on medication now. He said that can make horses more susceptible, though I'm not quite sure what I think of that diagnosis after reading DrO's article on all the misdiagnosis on hypothyroism...
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 11:43 pm:
Just curious, why did your vet rule out cushings or Metabolic SynDrOme? A cresty neck and being thin are too big "clues."
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 11:48 pm:
Boy, when a vet takes radiographs like this, I have to ask--is he an equine vet? The hoof wall has to be marked, as well as the TRUE point of the frog. If we amateurs know that, why doesn't he? If he charged you for these, he should re shoot for no charge, but I fear the next set won't be much better quality. Dr O, I guess you know by now we think you're the TOP of your profession! I feel blessed with the excellent equine vets I have easy access to!
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Member:
jchadola
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 5:23 am:
Sara - regarding the heartbar shoes, I've heard what you said. My new vet looked at the placement of the shoes in the x-rays and said they were perfectly placed on his foot - which was comforting. My horse gets his feet done this Saturday and I am picking up the x-rayY for her to view.
There are so many opinions. This is something that vets should explain to us because some act like their way to do it is the only way. My farrier is very individualistic in the way she shoes horses - there is no one way that works for all horses - especially regarding showing and going barefoot. But it seems a lot of vets and farriers act like their way is the only way instead of saying that there are a number of ways to treat a condition but this is what has worked for him or her in the past. There seems in some cases to be ego-involvement, which makes it even more confusing for the horse owner. It's better for the vet to admit there are many ways to treat laminitis but my experience has been that this has worked in the past.
Janice Chadola
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 6:22 am:
Tamara, If your vet tested for thyroid while your horse was on bute....I believe that can affect the results?? I also thought I had read somewhere that pain of founder can affect blood results for glucose/insulin/cushings??? Hopefully Dr.O. can comment on that.
There are many ways to treat founder and all horses react differently to different things. I did quite a bit of experimenting before I found what made Hank most comfortable, I don't think any vet can predict exactly what that may be. However there is standard protocol that works for most and a good place to start.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 8:49 am:
He did say it affects the results but felt that she was low despite the "bute effect". I brought up the same exact question when he told me the results.
He said that she doesn't have the look of a cushings horse to him but I believe he did run her bloodwork for IR (and cushings?) because I asked about that too.
I wish her feet would cool off.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 10:19 am:
Tamara, you are so right about ego playing a big part with some vets and farriers! I met a farrier while at the vet's in Las Vegas who I swear felt he was appointed by God! Geesh! I'm glad he wasn't working on my horses.
I personally think looks are about the best way to diagnose Cushings or IR. I don't think the blood tests are very reliable. You may never know what set off this bout of inflamation. You just have to treat it and make sure you are doing everything you can regarding diet etc. If the mare tends to be on the thin side I'd review the articles on feeding laminitic/cushings type horses and feed her as if she was chronic just to rule out that as a cause in the future. I think once a horse has had laminitis they seem to be more prone to it in the future.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 11:48 am:
I second Sara's response about Cushings. I have a cushing's mare and we just upped her pergolide without doing that horrible marathon blood-drawing test. We just went on the symptoms.
(Her hair was long again, and slightly curly, and lumps at the crest and tail head were the giveaways. She, too, is on the thin side despite the lumps.)
Your horse is of the age for Cushings. Laminitis can be one of the results. I've been there--17 degrees rotation in one hoof--but the horse became sound again and stayed that way for years.
My vet just told me yesterday that although horses don't have primary thyroid deficiency, it can be a side effect of Cushings too.
You may want to do some research and revisit the topic with the vet.
As to the X-rays, we always tape a nail to the front of the hoof, and to the frog to show clearly where they are in relation to the bone.
Good luck, terrible disease, hope your horse recovers well.
Erika
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 9:59 pm:
I have to come down with Erika and Sara. My 28 yr old mare was diagnosed 4 years ago. It was the laminitis that brought about the testing and diagnosis. Before her foot problem, I was being told: "Just look at her...she doesn't have Cushings". I couldn't shake the feeling that she did. Long winter coat, uneven shedding, excessive drinking and urinating. She began lying down a lot, and then, thank heavens, my farrier said "these feet are HOT!" Vet came and began testing the next day, took x-rays ( no damage because it was caught so early - by the way, it was Sept. - early fall ). I still packed her front feet with sugardine, placed styrofoam pads and wrapped with duct tape each day. She was buted each day ( this mare had been on bute for 15 years anyway, for navicular - with no problems )and put on pergolide. If you suspect Cushings, persue it.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 4:34 pm:
I will definitely revisit Cushings. My vet thought that she didn't have the look or the coat of a cushings horse and that she is too young at 17...
Her feet actually felt cool at lunch today so here's to hoping they feel cool at dinner too. I am most certainly going to treat her as IR. It can only help.
Out of curiosity, has anyone seen or heard of these:
https://www.soft-ride.com/
If we decide to pull her shoes I thought they might be a good option as other boots tend to rub her.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 4:56 pm:
Tamara, I started a thread about them a couple of months ago. Not many responses. I thought they looked good, but I wasn't sure if they were for riding, just stalling, or what?!
What do they seem to be intended for, could you determine?
Erika
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 5:24 pm:
I found them in an article written for vets about chronic laminitis as a recommended course of treatment... from what I could see they are used for laminitis and sore feet (can also be used for soaking with a liner) as well as transport and breeding. I don't think they can be used for riding. They can be used with or without shoes though, and can be worn 24/7 which is nifty. They have an orthodic insert specifically for laminitis.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 5:28 pm:
darn it, hot feet again tonight. argh.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 8:39 pm:
Oh, Tamara -- feel your pain. Ice as much as you can. Hang in there and fight as best you can. It is truly exhausting when these things drag on.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2008 - 12:42 pm:
we are trying 3 g instead of 4 today.
her feet are quite cooled off right now but she is certainly much more uncomfortable. favoring one foot a bit so I'm wondering if there is an abscess brewing. do I keep trying her on 3 g despite discomfort or bump back to 4? she's been on 4 since monday.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2008 - 2:30 pm:
Tamara does she still have her shoes on? If she is abscessing I would be real tempted to get them off of her. It is possible the pads may be putting to much pressure on the coffin bone.
Have you asked your vet about pulling shoes and trying styrofoam or some sort of boot with pad until she stabilizes? The heat in my horses hooves could have started a fire when I put the shoes and pads on too soon. He was much happier when I took them off and put the boots on for 1/2 the day while in the dry lot, he moved like nothing was wrong with him.
The other part of the day he spent on a bed of deep shavings. Yes boots do come with their own set of problems...such as rubs ect., but we managed to deal with that. It was worth it to see him so comfortable.
I hope your girl feels better soon, founder is a hard thing to deal with and you have to find what makes HER comfortable. You wouldn't believe the things I tried
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 27, 2008 - 9:18 am:
A 17 year old arab I would continue to work to get the dosage down if possible but we cannot answer the question of proper treatment for your horse without examination. Better than upping the bute dose, which would not help relieve the pain of an abscess very much, would be a thorough exam of that foot for possible causes of lameness that can be treated directly.
DrO
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 8:47 pm:
Hello
We have my mare down to 3 grams this week and she is doing well. I am trying to get my farrier and vet out to no avail thus far to look at that left foot. She is looking almost normal on the right but carrying the left like there is an abscess. And to make things even MORE fun, it has rained nonstop for some time and I am having trouble keeping her feet dry so she has a horrendous case of thrush in both hinds (I mean, really, really bad - I suspect it started some time ago and we missed it while concentrating on the front, stupid stupid stupid) and is very sore on those as well. Her feet have stayed relatively cool now for 4 days so I'm letting her out on a dry lot to move around. Poor baby.
Thanks
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 7:43 am:
Hi Tamara, glad your mare is feeling better. 3 grams of bute is still a lot so don't let her fool you. As I lowered my horses dose I would remove the bute for a day just to see how he REALLY was. He never was on as much as your horse though.
Founder is such a unpredictable disease, as all horses are so different.
When Hank got his shoes and pads on after the acute stage, his fronts were wonderful, but then I saw his rears start falling apart and got very sore. I'm pretty sure he foundered in back too, but it wasn't quite as obvious when his fronts were killing him.
She may have some rotation in the rears along with the thrush.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 9:58 am:
hey diane,
I know it - I am a little afraid for the bump down to 2 grams tomorrow but I feel like so long as her feet stay cool then I've got to keep working down. I think she will be a sore girl.
Those hinds have been giving me a scare, there are rings on those feet so I suspect a little rotation back there too, though the feet are ice cold and have been that way the whole time. The thrush is definitely there tho and I think her heels are contracted (sp?) as well - everything down there is soft and squishy and white underneath the black stains. This morning I got her stall as dry as I could, scrubbed out her feet in all the cracks with betadine, painted them with sugardine, and put hoofwings on. I'm hoping that will keep them dry and clean while letting some air in.
The sick thing right now is that I can't decide if I want my farrier to call me back or if I secretly hope he blows me off so I have an excuse to get another opinion... I just can't shake off that everyone who saw pics of her feet just before the founder hated the trim she had. He also told me there is nothing to do for her aside from find an angle to make her comfortable. He didn't want to see her xrays or anything, is that a red flag or do all farriers just have different approaches to founder?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 1:48 pm:
Tamara I would absolutely call that a red flag! Hanks hinds were never warm either.
I too have a farrier that isn't real experienced with founder, but he tries his heart out and it's all I have around these parts. He was very interested in my horses x-rays, even though I'm not sure if he can trim by them .
I switched farriers in the middle of Hanks problems and it was the best thing I did, though he is not perfect he does have some concept. The old farrier was leaving Hank with a really, really long toe, NEVER even used a rasp to remove flares, he said flares were good...sigh and didn't trim his heels at all. I really liked my old farrier as a person, but his trimming left a lot to be desired. I felt guilty for about a week, then got over it, after all it was in Hanks best interest and I was paying dearly for bad trims...didn't make sense.
Even if you want to keep this farrier a second opinion would be a good idea.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 2:06 pm:
ok, I've contacted someone I was told specializes in foundered and problem horses. He is an hour away but after your message Diane I figure I'd better at least try to get someone else's opinion. I am feeling very very guilty at the moment but I need to know I'm doing everything I can...! my current guy sounds just like your original farrier except that he's got 50+ years of experience so its tough to second guess him!
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 3:02 pm:
Red flag??? That's a giant freakin' banner!!!
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 3:26 pm:
okey dokey, now that does go a ways towards easing my mind about asking somebody else :-)
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 3:58 pm:
 Julie!
Tamara let us know what the other farrier says. DO NOT feel guilty, you are your horses advocate. It is very hard to find good farriers and sometimes vets, especially those that are well versed in founder. (mine aren't).
Read and re-read Dr.O's articles on founder and de-rotation. I have found them to be the best out there, we used them to help Hank become sound again. And at least you will know what kind of questions to ask a farrier/vet if you are well educated. You will also know what your horses hooves should look like. I have a constant battle with Hanks, remember founder will really distort them if not trimmed correctly. It's a long journey to recovery and sometimes you just have to experiment with what will make your horse comfortable. I could write a book on all the things I tried on Hank. Some worked, some didn't!
Good Luck and keep us updated.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 4, 2008 - 8:49 am:
Tamara, 50 + years of experience may not be a big plus for some farriers. They learned the "old school" way and sometimes are not willing to consider anything that would be a change in thinking as that would be admitting they had been doing something wrong in the past.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 - 5:02 pm:
hi guys
OK SO... update. myriah is down to 2 g a bute and hanging in there really pretty well actually. the new shoer is at a clinic in the states but I did some additional research and heard from other shoers that he is rather an expert on lameness. He sent his wife/apprentice to pull the shoe on her left foot to relieve any pad pressure (no abscesses to speak of yet) until he gets back into the country and can come first thing friday. she also took a bunch of pictures of her feet to email him which I thought was great. So now myriah is booted on that side to roam her drylot and actually trotted over to see me when I came to feed today. Her first movement past a hobble in a month. Hopefully this is good. I did confirm with the apprentice that she probably has some rotation in one rear foot, and the other does have some thrush but is otherwise looking pretty good. The fronts are very tender in the toe and sole and just slightly warm. The sole on the foot we pulled the shoe off is so flat it is scary. She walks right on that sole if I don't use boots or shoes. But she's handling the bute reductions well and is really just limping on the one front now. I'm going to have fresh xrays done and I'll let y'all know what this other farrier has to say about it. BTW, his name is glen warner and is originally from new jersey if anyone has a reference?
Thanks!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2008 - 7:55 pm:
It is always important to remember one good exam is worth 100 radiographs. Keep looking critically at that foot with a set of hoof testors in experienced hands.
DrO
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 - 9:18 am:
Thank you for the advice DrO - is there anything in particular you think I should ask them about or ask them to check? Funny you mention hoof testers, neither my original farrier or the first vet used hoof testers on her when I had them out to check for abscesses and I thought that seemed strange but figured they knew more than I. My regular vet tested immediately but it was quite late in the game by then.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 - 10:12 am:
Oh, my. In my experience too, hoof testers are a very valuable diagnostic tool.
Glad that your mare is more comfortable presently and hope that you will have a good eventual outcome.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 - 6:23 pm:
That is such an open question that there is no way to completely answer it. Study the founder and abscess articles so that you understand what is going then apply this information to planned treatments. When there recommendations seem to go off what you understand is the time to step in and start asking questions.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 - 6:52 pm:
I have a question I'm not quite clear on, are hoof testers reliable when the horse has shoes on?
I know my vet hoof tested Hank with shoes and without them...the outcome was quite different.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 - 8:56 pm:
Diane, from what the natural farriers tell me, shoes that are nailed onto the feet restrict the blood flow and therefor the pain. I am not saying this is true but only relating what I have been told.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 7, 2008 - 11:13 pm:
I have found bruises and abscesses hiding under the edge of the shoe DianeE. Vicki, I don't think it has anything to do with blood flow. If this prevented pain on pressure the horse would not appear lame when walking. It just simply that the shoe prevents you from getting the pressure on the sensitive point.
DrO
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 - 8:20 am:
DrO - A more specific question:
In treating both founder and a possible abscess, is soaking the foot in warm epsom salt water advisable or not? Aside from the question of warm water being good or bad for the founder, does the softening effect of soaking the sole harm a possible sinker with questionable sole thickness?
Thank you
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 - 7:06 pm:
If I have a probable abscess I pare it out. If it is a possible abscess, I might give it some time. Abscesses have a way of making themselves obvious in a day or two. No I don't think the soaking harms the sole but recent findings suggest that heating the foundering foot may potentiate the founder itself through activation of the MMP's. For more on this see the article on Founder Overview.
DrO
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 - 9:13 am:
Thank you!
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 - 11:12 am:
Update -
New farrier came out and I am at the moment extremely glad to have called him. He spent a lot of time with hoof testers and told me there is no abscess, the lameness is pressure from the coffin bone in that foot. He reshaped and reset the shoe to ease the pressure and shortened up her toe a bit. He is very familiar with your de-rotation techniques and told me it is always his goal and that he works with a lot of cushings and chronic founder horses. Her sole looks reasonably thick and once he feels she is stable he will start to very slowly rebalance her feet and de-rotate the bone as much as possible. He'll be out in 3-4 weeks to re-evaluate where she's at.
I was pleased to finally talk to someone who seemed to be on board with everything I've read here so thanks to everyone who encouraged the farrier change and we'll keep you updated.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 - 7:45 pm:
Tamara that's wonderful! I hope your horse continues to improve. A good farrier can make all the difference to a foundered horse. Good Luck!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 - 8:42 pm:
Good news, Tamara. Persistence pays with treating foot troubles.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 - 9:15 pm:
If this new farrier is as good as he sounds, hang on to him. Bake him cookies, bring him beer when it's hot, coffee when it's cold, do whatever it takes to keep him! I'm so glad it seems like he's going to be able to help both you and your mare. Finding someone that actually knows what they are doing is often the most difficult part of the journey. Good luck with her.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2008 - 9:36 am:
Hi all,
I wanted to post an update on my mare for all of you who were so helpful and supportive. Under the care of the new farrier, she had been doing fabulously. Even trotting soundly around her little dry lot last week. Unfortunately she has now had a freak accident (of unknown origin, maybe slipping on an icy patch that disappeared by morning? vet and I are stumped) that caused a severe strain of ligaments in her left knee and lower leg. She is back on three legs and on stall rest indefinitely and we are very afraid the laminitis will return with all the weight on one leg. Unfortunately the supporting foot is also the one with the most rotation and deformity.
It is so upsetting. Thanks again to everyone, Tamara
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2008 - 1:05 pm:
Hi Tamara, It might be a good idea to support the "supporting foot" by using a styrofoam block as a preventitive measure. I have heard of this and it does make sense< or maybe your farrier could come up with some kind of support so you wouldn't have to change it.
Glad your mare got better! leave it to horses, I think they don't like us to have worry free days. Hope she gets over this new hurdle.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2008 - 1:23 pm:
I am so sorry to hear about this new problem, Tamara. Are you allowed to give any medication for the pain?
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2008 - 3:20 pm:
I know right? I can't win with this poor mare. She is the most accident prone horse I've ever been around. She is as safe as can be with people but left on her own she manages to get herself into the worst predicaments. At the beginning of this year at her winter barn she ran over a metal gate (there was an open gate right next to it), flipped herself over and knocked herself out for a second. Then she popped up and trotted off like nothing happened. Then the unexplained founder, and now this. She nearly broke her nose last year on a feeder opening. I need to build her a padded stall and a paddock with bumpers.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2008 - 5:02 pm:
Hi Tamara. Sorry to hear that your mare managed to injure herself again. Isn't it amazing how they can get into so much trouble left to their own devices?? Just when I think I can sit back and relax another animal issue comes up. The vet's office recognizes my voice when I call...so sad.
As for the padded stall, I thought that was an excellent idea at one point until a friend pointed out that my horse would probably eat the padding and colic!
Good luck with everything.
~Sara
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 23, 2008 - 9:44 am:
great news!! my farrier (I love him) called and asked if he could come and look at her and he used a laser thermometer gadget of some sort and found a large deep abscess directly beneath her coffin bone. he thinks whenever she did her mysterious move, her coffin bone came down and created a bruise that abscessed. he thinks she also tweaked something in her knee during the episode but it is likely not nearly as bad as it looked. I guess my vet didn't look much past the leg swelling.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 23, 2008 - 10:58 am:
I was wondering if maybe she had an abscess. Did the farrier do anything for it? Sub solar abscesses are very painful and can do some damage in there if not drained and treated. I hate them!!! They also usually follow a bout of founder, so maybe that could be the cause?
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 7:08 pm:
Hi All,
Thought I would post an update again -
Myriah has been on mostly stall rest for the last 2 months with brief morning turnouts when the weather allows and at the moment (knock wood knock wood knock wood), and she is walking and turning absolutely sound and comfortably. Shortly before christmas she got three abscesses in the left foot (my vet says to us, "we'll try to keep her alive", WHAT?!) but my farrier came out, drained them, and fit that foot with a hospital plate that seems to be working very well for her.
At our last trim (last week), he said the hooves are growing out very well and fast and relatively even (help from our hoof supplement?) and the right foot has grown a lot of new sole. The left is still our problem child but she has been doing much better on it since being fitted with the metal plate. She is hanging in there like a champ and actually seems very content to stay in her cozy stall with her buddy (she hates this -30 weather like I do). So we are crossing our fingers and planning out how to keep her comfy and sound at home when she comes back to us in the spring.
I attached a couple of pictures, please please excuse the extreme dirtiness of my girl, I should have taken the pics AFTER I groomed or pre roll in the snow and dirt :-)
Thanks & hope everyone is staying warm...
Tamara
 
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 7:58 pm:
Don't appologize for the way your horse looks if you've got the kind of weather many of us have -snow, mud, etc. She doesn't look that bad!
I'm curious about your mare's feet; is the farrier going to add more heel support? She looks like she needs her heels supported more and her toes brought back, but of course I'm just taking a quick look at a photo and not seeing her actual hoof or an x-ray. And, I know it all has to be done very gradually.
Glad she's improving!
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 8:21 pm:
thanks sara!!
according to my farrier, we need to be a bit careful about making drastic changes, especially as she is stabilizing. the trim she had before he started on her was terrible, the toes (believe it or not) were even longer and the heels really really underrun. his plan is to slowly change and start bringing the toe back (apparently it is going to get very gnarly an crumbly looking as the dead sections grow out) and try to bring the heels back to a more normal position as we try to get her stabilized. I should try to dig up the pic I have from when she foundered for comparison. It is quite scary. Taught me a valuable and painful lesson in blindly trusting a farrier, or anyone else, with my horses' health. He kept telling me not to worry, that she was fine when I asked about her toes and what not and I thought, well what do I know anyway? I think I'd always been spoiled by such high quality care under my trainer in california. I will post photos as she progresses so folks can follow the changes if they are interested.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 9:16 pm:
I just re-read all your posts and noticed you had asked about Soft-Ride boots and no one seemed to have had experience with them. I used them last fall on a horse of ours that was having foot problems and they really seemed to make him comfortable. I've continued to use them when we are at shows and the ground under the bedding is really hard or is cement, and I use them with him when trailering long distances. I think they have helped him a lot. I have since read that the US Olympic team and a lot of upper level competetors use them in stalls and when trailering. I don't know if you've been to their web site or not, but they have several different pads to put in the boot dependent on the problem the horse is having. They are for use in the stall and when trailering, not for riding. Our farrier and vet have also used them on a laminitic horse instead of using styrofoam padding. Our vet likes them because you can also add additional wedging under the heel of the pad for a laminitic horse. They are pricey, but no more so than other brands of specialty boots. They are washable and the foam interior pads can be changed.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 6:07 am:
Hi Tamara glad your mare is recovering. Their hooves go through some ugly changes. I couldn't wait for Hanks to grow out
We made changes slowly also or he would get sore. It's hard to decide sometimes if the hooves are improving. I have about a million posts in the de-rotation section of the founder page. I don't know if you have read the de-rotation section, but it has very good advice on how to shoe the horse that has foundered. I'm glad your mare is sound, but it appears her new growth isn't where it should be. I highly recommend you read the de-rotation article. I have pictures of Hanks hooves and his x-rays in this post as we progressed(towards the bottom) if you care to see them. Easing breakover and taking pressure off the toe is important, It is also a constant battle! Thanks for the update
https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/218714.html
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 7:59 am:
Hello tamara,
Excellent to hear of the progress your horse has made. I suspect the pain without the long toe is due to rotation and the top of the coffin bone being close to the solar surface. If so there is a better way to trim. But it is hard to judge proper trimming in these horses without radiographs. They should be done by someone more competent with radiography than what we see in the first images above. For more on all this see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Rehabilitation and Derotation of Foundered Horses.
DrO
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 8:36 am:
Thank you very much for the input! I have definitely learned not to be shy about asking questions so I will double-check the plan on our next trim. I believe the original plan was to start taking back the toe starting on the next trim as long as she is still sound.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 1:39 pm:
Tamara, I'm so glad your horse is doing better. She is lucky to have such a dedicated owner. I'm sure that this is one winter that you will never forget!
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 7, 2009 - 1:47 pm:
Update picture.
The farrier felt she was ready to start making changes to the shape of the foot and start de-rotation. He warned me that he feels this should be a very very slow process and that her feet are going to be ugly and strange for quite some time. This round he started to change the angle and took off a ton of toe. She is moving absolutely beautifully (knock wood), landing correctly and taking lovely big strides.
He has kept the surgical plate on the left as he told me the bone was very close to being through the sole on that foot and though he is pleased with the thickening of the sole to this point, he doesn't want to take any chances. Fair enough.
I have been overlaying each round on top of prior pictures back 5 months and in comparison her heel is back (though needs to keep coming) and the toe is significantly shorter (though more needs to come off). Thought both of those were positive and his explanation of what is to come in the next several months matches the article referenced by DrO; he didn't feel the wedges were needed in her case at this time. We'll take more rads in a bit to check to see how we're doing and if the plan needs to be adjusted.
As he says, there is a lot of work left to do but at least she will be pain and drug free and able to enjoy a little yee-haw at turnout for her 18th bday this month.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 7, 2009 - 5:15 pm:
Good to hear Tamara Thanks for the update!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 7, 2009 - 7:04 pm:
Very good tamara and that the horse is pain free is the best indicator of things going right. I would love to see a true lateral and a bit of cannon bone in the image. But it will take radiographs to really know what is going on. I would love to see the radiographs. If they are not digital often good images can be taken with a camera of the images on the view box.
DrO
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 7, 2009 - 8:11 pm:
Thank you, I will post an update with more pictures of her feet (with cannon bone) and the latest rads when we have them done.
I am very curious to see how she does over this spring/summer.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 8:20 am:
Happiness is... a sound horse at the moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w94q2evNHVc
Just an update, we are nearly 100% sure she has advanced Cushings now so I guess it will be a bit touch and go forever but here she is during her mini-turnout session (not to worry, we are VERY careful with the grass), looking for all the world like a sound horse. She has grown beautiful new sole and by the end of the summer the bad hoof should be completely grown out, provided we don't have another incident. You can't see the bone pressing though the sole at all anymore on the worse foot. FYI, we all feel that the supplement I put her on in january did contribute to her very fast and healthy hoof growth. If anyone is interested, it is called Formula 4 Feet.
We are likely taking new rads in July.
And yes, she looks like a medieval war horse in her fly equipment but it helps the sweet itch :-)
Thanks for the support, Tamara
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 9:16 am:
Definitely trots like a happy horse! Glad to see it.
Erika
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 9:18 am:
We always love good news! Love the "look"! Best wishes, Lilo
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 11:59 am:
Wonderful to see! Thank you for the update. Both of your horses look happy and comfortable.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 5:59 pm:
Great News Tamara! . I know how thrilling it is to see a horse you have doctored for a year finally "come around"
GOOD JOB!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 10:13 pm:
She looks/moves great! and very pretty in her elegant gown! 
(I have "dressed to the 9's" sweet itch mare too)
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 10:21 pm:
Thanks for the update, Tamara.
Good luck with continuing improvements.
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