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  Discussion on Bump on Back
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New Member:
jamiea

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 8:50 pm:

I have a 3 year-old quarter horse gelding that I just recently moved from Alabama to southern Colorado (the poor things went from green and lush soft ground to hard desert). Within the last month he started to develop a bump/swell on his back. I had the vet come out and look at him and said it was just bruising and to give him bute for 8 days. It seemed to reduce the swelling slightly but it is still there. Now my mare is developing the same thing on her back in the same place. Granted it isn't as pronounced but it is puzzling. I haven't started them under saddle yet so it isn't caused by riding. I have also had their feet looked at and they are toughening up great and at the right angles. The only thing that would contribute to my gelding's 'bump' would be that he was just diagnosed with bone spavins. Please help.

Jamie
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 8:44 am:

Welcome Jamie,
Is there a bump growing on the skin, or a swelling under the skin?
In the first case I want you to review the article Overview of Bumps, Nodules, Warts & Tumors. If it is the second case, which it sounds like from the vet's appraisal review Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses.

It will give you some idea of the possibilities and the type information needed to assess such changes.
DrO
New Member:
jamiea

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 11:22 pm:

Hello Dr. O, thank you for the welcome.

The swelling is under the skin on the spine right before the loins. I tried palpating the area but he didn't seem too sore on it. Unfortunately it looks like a hump taking up a couple of vertebrae and it is very hard, as if the spine itself is the bump/swell. I will be sure to read up on diagnosing swellings. I'm just worried about it having an effect on trying to start him under saddle. I really don't want to hurt him more by trying to restart his training.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 7:31 am:

Jamie, there are many possibilities and not any of them a problem with communicable diseases. It would appear to be coincidence that your two horses have done this. I agree with your vet that this is likely to be traumatic but an ultrasound and radiograph concentrating on this area may give additional information.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 8:05 am:

Jamie,

Any way you could post a picture. From your description and the fact you went from soft pastures to a harder environment. It sounds to me like what you are describing are changes to your horses spine. Try to find a picture of a horse with a roached back. There are other names for this hunter's bump, bleeder's hump. A horse can be born with a roached back or It can be caused because they are using their bodies differently, or because of incorrect trims or because of what they are doing for a living.

I have a mare that has a similar problem, I have had her since she was two. She was a big horse even then and was skin and bones when I got her, you could hang a hat off her hips. She has since filled out really nicely, except for the conformation of her spine, which remains slightly roached. I have managed her exercise, trimming and shoeing and have her adjusted and massaged when needed.This area does not cause her any pain, but its appearance does change from less pronounced to more pronounced depending on her stress and exercise levels.

It may just be that your horses are walking differently on the harder ground causing excess strain on this part of their backs.

Just my thoughts
Rachelle
New Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 2:39 pm:



Rocket's back
New Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 2:41 pm:

Another view from the rear looking towards the head

New Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 2:48 pm:

Thank you so much for the thoughts! Any input is greatly appreciated. I know these aren't the best pictures. I just couldn't find a position that would really show it very well with a camera phone. The vet will be back out to check on a different matter with Rocket this week so I will have him try and do an ultrasound on his back. What's funny though is that the bump is very visible on Rocket (my gelding) but in order to tell that Bree (my mare) is developing one is to palpate across the spine. I just feel so bad for these 2. I fear that not being able to care for them properly for 2 months may have contributed. We moved up here while I was 7 months pregnant with twins so I was mainly on bed rest when we got up here so my husband was doing the best he could. The babies are 3 months old now so I've been trying to fix everything with the horses that I could. They get brushed and played with everyday again now.

Is this Roached back a debilitating disease that could, in time, destroy the function of their back? Thank you for all your advise.

Jamie
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 3:13 pm:

Hello again Dr. O,

I forgot to mention before that Rocket is heterozygous for HYPP (we found out a couple of months after we got him). He has had at least 1 episode that we know of (it was very scary to see him just tip right over and fall on his side). Do you think falling like that could cause such a bruise on his back? Thank you for all your help

Jamie
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 3:26 pm:

Jamie,

I know it's manageable, but first I think you need to narrow down what is causing it. I'd look at your horses feet first. If they are not balanced or the toes are too long. He may be putting extra pressure on his back.In fact this may be the case with both your horses.

Also, what is the body condition of both your horses. you can't really tell from the pictures.

If Bree is heavier and more rounded it may not be as noticeable on her. And the fact that he is young and not quite as filled out may make it more noticeable on him.

The fact that both horses are developing this around the same time, makes it appear that it is not coincidental and that if you get to the root cause it will probably be the same for both horses.
Just my thoughts
Rachelle
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 5:31 pm:

Hi Rachelle,

The feet were the first thing I thought of too and I had the farrier out just a couple of days ago and he double checked their feet. They are actually growing very well and starting to really toughen up. He assured me that their angles are correct for their conformation. I decided to go out and take some pictures of them for you. They are both 3 year old's. And the fact that it is happening to both at the same time is why I'm so worried about it all.

Thank you so much for your concern!
Jamie
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 5:32 pm:



Bree
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 5:33 pm:



Rocket
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 6:32 pm:

Jamie,
Very pretty and handsome horses. Anything change in the amount of exercise they were getting versus what they are doing now?
Rachelle
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 6:59 pm:

Hi Rachelle,

Thank you for the compliment! Actually, I guess I forgot to mention that before the bump appeared I had started lungeing them again (only 10 minutes a day) just to get them used to working and moving again. Nothing really strenuous. As soon as the bump appeared I stopped working them. But before that I hadn't really worked them for about 9 months besides letting them out in the pasture about an hour a day.

Jamie
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 7:12 pm:

Hey Dr. O,

I was just thinking, do you know much about HYPP and how to help him out! I haven't been able to find much about it on the Internet. I know I haven't been feeding him anything that is high in potassium. If you have any other suggestions it would be very helpful! Thank you!

Jamie
Member:
paul303

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 7:49 pm:

Jaime: Try researching the term, "hunter's bump". See if it bears any resemblence to your situation.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2008 - 11:23 pm:

Hi Jamie,

You are getting a lot of good advice. I guess if it were me, I might be asking myself whether there is anything these horses have in common (do you have a shared saddle that might in the past have bridged onto the loin?). I also would be racking my brain on whether they have lost weight/muscling in their new home, which might be showing me a problem that had started earlier. Other possibilities-- are they crawling under something looking for grass? I have seen "back bumps" like this caused by horses being trapped under rail fences.

It certainly is odd if both horses are spontaneously showing the same trauma. My tendency would be to look for a common cause....

Let us know how they do and what you learn.

- Elizabeth
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2008 - 8:51 am:

This bump is neither related to a "hunter's bump" which is a form of sacroiliac dislocation or to the conformation of the feet. Trauma still remains at the top of the list but the previous caveats and diagnostic recommendations apply.

Concerning HYPP Jamie check out Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » HYPP: Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis.
DrO
Member:
erika

Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2008 - 10:44 am:

Nice looking horses, and I admire you for being so observant while recovering from twins!! I don't think I could even see for months after giving birth! LOL.

Jamie, are the two horses related at all?

My thoughts were along the lines of Elizabeth's about them possibly trying to go under something. My horse recently had a patch of hair scraped off--almost a perfect square about 4" across--in just about the same place. All I could figure is she ducked under a branch and her rear didn't fit...
Hope you find the answer anyway. Hope you'll keep us posted when you do figure it out.

As to the HYPP, what a shame responsible breeders aren't weeding this out of the gene pool. When Dr. O posted the genetic link about PSSM, I remember thinking how easy it would be to get rid of the gene now, but realizing that years after the HYPP link discovery, horses are still being bred with it, so I doubt we will be rid of the PSSM either. GRRRR!
Member:
jamiea

Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2008 - 2:20 pm:

Thank you everyone for your comments. They are all greatly appreciated!

Rocket and Bree are no were near related. They are both 3-year-olds and haven't really been ridden much. I had ridden them maybe 5 or 6 times before I found out I was pregnant again so I decided to give them another year to mature. As for the HYPP, I can't believe people are still breeding horses with it either! It makes me very frustrated but we couldn't leave Rocket where we found him. He was only a yearling that was mal-nurished, full of worms, and living with 2 stallion donkeys when we found him. I couldn't, with a conscience, leave him there.

I talked to the vet and he said the bump on the back is very common for this area due to the ground being like 'cement'. So even just rolling wrong or slipping on it when it rains can bruise the back. He also mentioned that the reason they are both probably getting it at the same time is because they got here at the same time and are both trying to adjust. What are your thoughts Dr. O! Please, does that sound like a possibility? I'm just trying to get as many points of view on this one as I can. As for getting an ultrasound and x-rays, we can't really afford that right now since we are still trying to pay off the twins doctor bills (they were in the NICU for about 4 weeks). So I'm sorry I can't really tell you anything there.

Thank you all,
Jamie
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Sep 27, 2008 - 10:04 am:

Yes Jamie those are possibilities.
DrO
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