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  Discussion on Losing the battle
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New Member:
owlhill

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2008 - 11:20 pm:

I have a 23 year old Clydesdale gelding who 5 weeks ago lost a lot of weight all of a sudden. His gait was slanted to one side. I called the vet who took his temperature which was about 102 and prescribed penicillin shots. Blood work showed an elevated WBC. He changed the antibiotic to Tucoprim. After 11 days I called another vet who examined him, took blood and kept him on Uniprim twice daily. The blood work again showed an elevated WBC. In subsequent tests the WBC went from 35,000 to 39,000. I took him to Ohio State Veterinary Hospital where they performed an ultrasound, rectal exam, peritoneal tap, chest xray and sent blood for an EPM test. Nothing was found in the exam and the peritoneal test showed normal WBC, no abnormal cells. Rifampin was added to his Uniprim treatment before his trip to OSU to treat abdominal abcess.

He has lost a lot more weight, his gait has deteriorated and he still has a fever - 103 - 104 at night 101 - 102 in the morning. I don't believe he is getting the oral antibiotic as he holds it in his mouth without swallowing for hours. He also quits eating as soon as we give it to him - although he does not eat well he will eat grain, hay and graze until we administer the medicine. I have tried flavoring with molasses which he loves but it makes no difference. One of his vets suggested washing his mouth out after an hour to get him to eat but it looks like all the medicine is washing out as well. His titer for EPM was high although I have not seen the report yet. They say he will have to stay on the antibiotics for many weeks and are not planning blood work for another week. I am afraid he will not be here that long at his present rate of decline. My heart is breaking and I am very frustrated. Is there no other treatment? Here are his latest blood results (Sept 18)

Test Result Reference Range Low Normal High

WBC 39.1 4.6 - 11.4 THOUS./uL HIGH
RBC 7.33 6.5 - 12.5 MILLION/uL
HGB 11.7 11 - 19 g/dL
HCT 32.3 32 - 52 %
MCV 44 34 - 58 fL
MCH 16.0 12.3 - 19.7 pg
MCHC 36.2 31 - 37 g/dL
NEUTROPHIL SEG 90 30 - 65 % HIGH
LYMPHOCYTES 5 25 - 70 % LOW
MONOCYTES 3 1 - 7 %
EOSINOPHIL 2 0 - 11 %
BASOPHIL 0 0 - 3 %
AUTO PLATELET 1 90 100 - 350 THOUS./uL LOW
PLATELET COMMENTS PLATELETS- CLUMPEDSCANNING OF THE BLOOD SMEAR REVEALED ADEQUATE PLATELET NUMBERS. DUE TOCLUMPING AND/OR LARGE PLATELETS THE AUTOMATED PLATELET NUMBER CANNOTBE ACCURATELY DETERMINED.
REMARKS SLIDE REVIEWED MICROSCOPICALLY.RBC MORPHOLOGY APPEARS NORMAL.
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHIL SEG 35190 2260 - 8580 /uL HIGH
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTE 1955 1500 - 7700 /uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTE 1173 0 - 1000 /uL HIGH
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHIL 782 0 - 1000 /uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHIL 0 0 - 290 /uL

Any suggestions? They don't want to treat the EPM while he is still running a fever but he has started tripping and fell to his knees the other night. One thing I have noticed is that his temperature fluctuates with the outside temperature/time of day and he rarely sweats and then only slightly. He is very particular about food and won't eat anything that seems "different".
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 12:14 am:

Hi Pam, I really feel for you right now. I so hope your guy will recover. I've had horses on Tucoprim and just mixed it in their feed. I would feed them a mushy sweet feed or senior and put the Tucoprim in and mixed it up and they've eaten it with no problems. I also have given other meds by mixing them in applesauce and using a large syringe with the end cut off so I can just squirt it in their mouth, and they've swallowed it. In fact, most of them like it. If these tricks won't work, is there a shot you could give him instead so he would get all the medicine and would eat?

Have you tried feeding him Equine Senior or another complete feed? Or, some beet pulp mixed with a pelleted feed? And, have you tried adding some corn oil to his feed to help him gain weight back. I've never had a horse with EPM, but would think things like this in his diet would be o.k.
Good luck with him. You obviously love him; he's lucky to have you to care for him; regardless of the outcome, you are making his life easier and doing what you can for him.
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 10:03 am:

Sara beat me to it.. Apple sauce in a large syringe... a complete feed * hopefully it won't be strange to him * add oil , as far as a mouth wash i would 'melt' peppermints in water and use a syringe to wash out my mares mouth... have to say tho.. only some days it worked other days she would not eat still.. :-(
Good luck with him.. he knows you love him...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
annes

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 10:37 am:

Pam, my TB had EPM and I gave his medicine in a syringe as described above. I would squirt it in over his tongue to the back of his mouth and then hold his head up (with my hands under his chin)until he swallowed. My husband helped me with this the first few times to make sure he didn't lower his head. After we saw he got the idea, I was able to do this myself. I mention this in case you had not tried holding his head up until he swallows. I would also give his favorite treat afterwards. Good luck...I know first hand that EPM is scary. My horse was on the medicine for 90 days and lost about 200 lbs but had complete recovery. I sincerely hope your horse will see improvement soon...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 10:55 am:

Welcome Pam,
Sorry to hear about your problems and it does sound serious. Considering the working diagnosis, long term oral antibiotics is the only practical choice. The lack of abnormalities in the peritoneal fluid does not support the diagnosis but the lack of other findings keeps it and other occult infections high on the list. I would be interested in a complete chemistry panel also to explore other possibilities. Ionophore toxicity, selenium toxicity or deficiency, and vitamin E deficiency all could still be on the list from the information you provide. By running a search you will find articles on all these in Horseadvice.

As Sarah writes, continued experimentation with different food treats that the antibiotics can be dissolved in like applesauce, molasses, yogurt, bran mash, or pellets that have been placed in water to create a mash should be tried. If a method to get the horse to eat the antibiotics or administration directly into the mouth fails we are left with treatment through an indwelling nasoesophageal tube.

A small nasoesophageal tube is placed into the nose and down into the esophagus and you treat through the tube at the nose. The tube is sutured into place then bandaged over. In some cases a hole must be surgically created in the soft part of the nostril and the tube run through the hole so that a bandage can be placed over the whole tube and head to keep it from being rubbed out. Usually wide diameter Stockinette is used with Elasticon to create this bandage but it requires experience to place one and get it bandaged so the horse cannot pull it out by rubbing against the walls.
DrO
Member:
annes

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 10:58 am:

Pam - Also, my vet had me give him the Red Cell vitamin/iron/mineral supplement over his feed during this time.
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 12:58 pm:

Pam, I am so sorry to read of your horse's illness. Hang in there. We are all pulling for you and your guy.
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 4:01 pm:

Pam, so sorry to hear of your boys trouble. Sounds like you are doing everything you can.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2008 - 4:06 pm:

So sorry you are experiencing this difficult time Pam. I recently had problems giving liquid antibiotics orally and had to resort to having my Veterinarian come and give it IV as a shot each day. Next I had to give 40 pills twice daily and made a concoction of applesauce and molasses to mix with the crushed pills and put it into his mouth via a dosing syringe with a friend helping me hold his head up. I put some alfalfa cubes below his head in his food dish so anything that dripped out would fall on the cubes, which he couldn't resist eating since there was just a bit on them. After about three times doing it that way, my boy became more accustomed to the taste and did not resist swallowing it so much. Then I found that if I crushed the pills, mixed with about 3 Tbs of applesauce and a bit of molasses I could add that to his senior feed, which he loves and ate with relish. It took some experimenting and when I used considerably MORE applesauce he would NOT eat it as he does not like his grain or even alfalfa cubes to be wet. Hoping for a good outcome for your horse.
New Member:
owlhill

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 7:58 am:

Hello everyone,

I want to thank you so much for your responses to my post. Your advice was wonderful. Unfortunately Maverick died shortly after I left for work yesterday. I couldn't find him when I got home last evening. I thought he might have gotten out of his pasture. My friends helped me search but my husband found him in the woods later. It looks as if his heart went, he was only a short distance from where I left him. I will miss him but at least he is not suffering or lost anymore. Thanks again for your kind suggestions. I know they will help others who were in my situation.
Member:
canter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 9:08 am:

I'm so very sorry to hear of your loss, Pam.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 9:24 am:

Dear Pam,

I am so sorry to hear about Maverick. He must have been very, very sick to go downhill so fast. As you said - at least he is not suffering anymore.

Take care, and hold on to the memories.

Lilo
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 10:21 am:



On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 11:06 am:

I'm so very sorry Pam. My heartfelt condolences to you.

Jo Ann
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 11:07 am:

I am so very sorry,Pam. As Lilo said, he really must have been ill and stressed. As rough as this is on you, it may be better for him. Even if he could have recovered with some unkown special treatment, the struggle would have been very hard on him, especially given his age. It's good that, as you say, he no longer suffers. My heart aches for you, though. A lot of us have been through the loss of one of our loved companions. It's never easy.
Member:
corinne

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 11:34 am:

Pam I am so sorry for your loss. Know we are here for you. We are a great board during the late night hours if you can't sleep or need a shoulder to cry on so to speak.....someone will always be up listening....

v/r
Corinne
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 12:25 pm:

Pam,

There are better days ahead. Fancy and Lakota welcomed him as he crossed The Rainbow Bridge I have no doubt.
Member:
frances

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 1:04 pm:

Oh Pam, how sad. Thinking of you.
Member:
annes

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 2:10 pm:

I am so sorry to hear about Maverick, Pam. My heart goes out to you.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 3:13 pm:

Pam,

My condolences to you on the loss of Maverick. My horses were there to greet him when he crossed over the Rainbow bridge. He is no longer suffering and you did everything you could. Sometimes its just that horses time to go and no matter what we humans try to do it happens anyway.

Rachelle
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 4:19 pm:

You tried your very best to give Maverick a chance for recovery but it appears that it was his time to depart. You have my deepest sympathy at this sad and difficult time of loss.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2008 - 7:33 pm:

It's done, it's over. You were wonderful. It's always so hard to lose a horse, but now, it's time to embrace all the wonder, warmth and enjoyment your big guy brought. The privilege of having them in our lives, should far outweigh the sadness of their departure.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 8:39 am:

My condolences Pam.
DrO
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 9:41 am:

Pam, I'm so sorry, my heart hurts for you.
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 9:45 am:

So sorry Pam, he had a great home, now he has another great home.
New Member:
owlhill

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 10:09 am:

Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I know you really do understand. So many people feel that it is "just a horse" that I have lost. I wanted you to know how much appreciate your posts. I am unable to talk about him yet but I wanted to respond.

Thank you again.
Member:
vrich

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2008 - 11:17 pm:

Oh my goodness, Pam. I've only ever lost one horse, a boarder - not even my own - and I grieved for months. This kind of event is a process of coping, more painful than anyone can know. I found that it took about 2 weeks before my heartache lessened enough to talk about her without tearing up. Take time for you and let the healing take place with time. In my experience, mourning the loss of an animal is at least as strong and hard, if not harder, than losing any significant person in your life. They are so much a part of every day. Take care of you!
New Member:
ngwintx

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 - 2:59 am:

I am new to this site. The discussion I am commenting on took place in 2008 concerning Pam Graham's Clydesdale that passed on. I have a similar situation going on right now. Pam, if you see this, I'd like to ask you a few questions. Who knows, your experience may help. My gelding has been hospitalized now for 3 weeks due to an abdominal abscess. We are in Texas where it is hot. He is in an air conditioned stall while being treated for the abscess. Does anyone reading this have prior experience in abdominal abscesses? thank you, Nancy}}
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 - 10:43 am:

Welcome to Horseadvice Nancy,
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