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Discussion on Photos from a neurectomy surgery
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 10:15 am:
Hi folks,
I was able to stand in on our 18yo AQHA mare's neurectomy yesterday. For those who are considering it, I thought I would post some pictures to show the procedure. The surgery took about 2.5 hours including prep etc., and we did both sides of both fronts.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 10:51 am:
Elizabeth, why did you have this done..?
The pictures are amazing and remind me of our awful day when Danni completely severed her tendon and nerves right down there.. When our vet was cleaning the wound I saw those little 'worm' like tendon/nerves not connected to anything.... golly thanks for the memories.. 
Actually very interesting thanks for the photos..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 11:41 am:
Hi Ann,
This is a mare whose heel pain could no longer be managed effectively with anti-inflammatories, and her quality of life had really declined. She has a number of other small soundness issues (hocks, etc.), so I had initially discounted neurectomy as a useful remedy for her.
A couple of weeks ago, my vet came to do some other stuff, and on a whim we did low blocks on both Rosie's front feet, to see how she responded. She literally transformed before our eyes, and when I turned her out in the arena, she performed a dance of joy on her blocked feet. Whatever her other problems, the heel pain was clearly the most oppressive to her.
I hope that the neurectomy will give her a couple more good years on her feet, with some light trail riding and fussing from my daughter. She was my daughter's first horse, and (with my old sick dog), is the last of the animals that helped me care for her as a baby. Here she is, several years ago, earning her place:
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 11:49 am:
ahhh Memories are everything..!~
Let us know how this works.. Danni still can't feel her whole hoof now, it is obvious in teaching her new lateral moves.. you can see her kind of hover it before she places it.. it is interesting to watch.. Now my surgeon said that the nerves could regenerate, much to the bad luck of those that have them cut for a purpose..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 12:31 pm:
Oh my gosh. This photo and story brought tears to my eyes. They are both lucky to have you  .
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 12:59 pm:
Great, educational photos, Elizabeth. Thanks so much for posting them. Kathy is right - lucky mare to have such a wonderful Mom to give her a whole new lease on life.
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Member:
shirl
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 3:40 pm:
Elizabeth,
May you have the good luck with your horse that I had when I had Sierra nerved. She had a partial done, and she was a happy horse for many, many years, until she passed from Cushings at age 23. The procedure was done when she was 12.
Good Luck and Hugs,
Shirl
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2008 - 9:34 pm:
Thank you, Elizabeth, it was so thoughtful of you to post these pictures. My 28 yr. old QH has had navicular synDrOme since the 80's. I often came to the verge of nerving, but then some new shoeing advancement, bute, new drugs - Legend, Adequan, and now joint injections have bought her time. Please let us know how Rosie progresses. My little ( 14.2 )"bulldog" QH really needs to know.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2008 - 8:50 am:
Wonderful pictures Elizabeth. Thank you so much for sharing them, and all the best to your mare.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2008 - 8:51 am:
Super pictures Elizabeth and with your permission I will incorporate them into an article. You can see the difference between old vets and young vets in the photos. My back would never allow me to do this anymore so I refer them. Kudos to your veterinarian for an aggressive approach at keeping costs down.
DrO
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2008 - 12:52 pm:
Hi DrO,
By all means use the photos. I took them for my daughter and for folks on the boards, to better visualize the procedure. Hope they're useful.
- Elizabeth
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 2, 2008 - 7:25 pm:
Just an update for those who wanted to hear some results. I removed Rosie's sutures on Thursday night, and she went back out to pasture with her buddy today.
So far, the transformation in this mare is quite remarkable. Even her appetite has improved, along with her attitude and her movement. I was fairly guarded in my expectations for her, since she has other known soundness problems. So it was surprising and really nice to watch her blast off across the pasture-- head and tail high-- leaping and dancing on her recycled front feet.
And, well, I guess I'm going to give her a bit more recovery time before I brave that first ride.... Who knows what great moves she's been saving up over the years!
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 2, 2008 - 8:19 pm:
That is amazing, Elizabeth! I am sure your mare appreciates it. It is so fascinating. Just curious--this probably sounds very ignorant but--is she prone to tripping?
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 2, 2008 - 9:31 pm:
Hi Gwen,
Nope. If anything, I'd expect her to be slightly more sure-footed, since she isn't experiencing pain with impact.
Bear in mind that we only severed the nerves that provide sensation from approx. the back 2/3rds of the hoof, so she can still feel her toes.
I'd expect an 18yo to have pretty good proprioceptive memory, barring a dramatic conformational change (can't imagine what). She should know where her feet are by now!
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 2, 2008 - 11:38 pm:
Thanks Elizabeth. Could you possibly check back in a couple of weeks? I can only imagine how great you must feel....
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 25, 2008 - 11:10 am:
Here is my check-in for Lee-- Rosie feels great! She came hauling in for breakfast this morning, and set a huge sliding stop into the hay; then she took a lap or two with her tail in the air. I wish I had given her this procedure years ago. The surgery and aftercare were simple, and the recovery quick and uncomplicated (even when *someone* who should know better turned Rosie out to play immediately after removing her sutures, and caused a mess).
A year ago, in similar weather, I seriously considered euthanizing this mare. Now I seriously consider getting out of her way. What a change.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 25, 2008 - 9:56 pm:
Well, well, well....and a very very Merry Christmas to you!!!! You see??? There IS a Santa Clause! Many thanks!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 26, 2008 - 7:49 am:
Thanks elk and great to hear.
DrO
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Dec 26, 2008 - 10:30 am:
Yeahh! Good news! Lilo
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 27, 2008 - 6:44 am:
That's wonderful, elk, and very encouraging for anyone contemplating a neurectomy.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 28, 2008 - 8:51 am:
Wonderful news Elizabeth. So glad to hear everything is well.
It must have been difficult for you last year so how rewarding to see her running about now.
I don't hear much about this kind of aggressive care for horses so I really appreciate your sharing.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 - 5:00 pm:
Here's my visual update on Rosie:
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 8:51 am:
Is that foremost tree budding?
DrO
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 10:02 am:
Elizabeth,
I don't remember seeing this before, but WOW, neat pictures, interesting to follow. And best of all, a happy and healthy horse.
The picture from yesterday is beautiful, thanks.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 10:31 am:
I'm glad I had finished my breakfast before I looked at these (we need a little "sick" icon) . . .
Nevertheless, the photos are superb! Amazing . . . and so wonderful for your mare.
Spring has come to the high plains/desert of the Eastern Slope!
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 11:45 am:
Yes, the tree is budding. Our winter here in Northern Colorado has been dust-dry and short. The meadowlarks are here a month early.
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 6:17 pm:
I just read the hand gun thread and thought I'd have a look at this one.
Glad I did.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Apr 10, 2009 - 11:27 am:
Thanks for sharing this Elizabeth, and best wishes for a good outcome for your mare.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 - 12:34 am:
HELLOOOOO, ROSIE!!!
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Member:
jones
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2011 - 11:24 pm:
Hello Elk,
I do hope you and your mare are still well.
I am going to have my gelding nerved soon. My vet wants to do it under general anesthesia for a Blacks procedure (they cut the nerve high and low and remove the middle peice)for a total of about $1800.00
I would prefer to not have him knocked out and an wondering if the procedure lasts well if not done with the "Blacks" method.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2011 - 6:16 pm:
Hello jones,
The above standing procedure managed to get a large piece of nerve through a single incision by putting traction on the nerve. I would expect this to last for a good long time. Despite the excellent job illustrated above, no one argues a more precise job can be done with the horse in recumbency and the leg elevated. Personally I could not longer assume the above positions long enough to get the job done without my back giving out.
DrO
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2011 - 7:18 pm:
Hi Jones,
My mare is still doing well after her surgery, so the effects have lasted since 10/2008. I was lucky to have a surgeon willing to perform a standing surgery. I've actually assisted at 2 (the other for an elderly gelding-- this was a no-cost since it was a training surgery for a vet that had no neurectomy experience, and was therefore a prolonged event).
General anesthesia has a different set of risks than sedation, but cost was a major factor in our decision. I think my cost for the paid surgery was less than $500, though it's been a while.
Of course, it's up to the surgeon whether s/he is willing to kneel for hours under a sedated thousand pound animal....
Good luck. I think this is a useful procedure, though we regretted nerving the older gelding (he responded well to blocks, but had failing eyesight; it turned out he'd been feeling his way around with his feet. The surgery was extremely disorienting for the old guy).
- elk
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Member:
jones
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 23, 2011 - 9:55 pm:
Hello DrO and Elk,
I read about your gelding in another post of yours. I am so sorry for that outcome for you and for him. I understand some of this is a coin flip regarding outcomes.
I have found a younger vet who is willing to perform the horse standing/vet kneeling procedure. He is going to get back to me regarding the cost but said between $600 to $900.
I don't know if I will be able to post photos but I will keep updates regarding outcomes. I viewed another neurectomy surgery online and they had the horse's knee bent and resting on a padded and draped block so the vet didnt have to bend down so much.
Regarding nerve regrowth, my vet said that anti-inflamatories tend to help prevent regrowth and that for nerve conditions he doses horses high on vitamin E to speed neural recovery, he didnt mention a diagnosis but I figured I wouldnt give Jones his supplements for a while after the surgery and he isn't on pasture.
DrO, is there any other supplement that tends to helps nerve heal/regrow that I could stay away from?
Thank you!
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Member:
jones
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 27, 2011 - 11:50 pm:
Jones had a standing neurectomy 2 weeks ago. It was done here at my place in Phoenix for $500. That was for the surgery...about $300 for the after care bandanges, more antibiotic, banamine, dressing change sedation etc.
Staples come out Tuesday (dentist is coming then so 1 sedation will only have to be done for both)
He developed severe diarrhea from the banamine so that had to be stopped. Interestingly, fish oil cured the diarrhea. He will be in turnout with his older buddy after Tuesday and I will start hand walking him. He already looks more comfortable and I have started him on Adequan (I didnt know adequan was so effective! I have never given an IM injection before and thought I should practice on me first....I feel great!) I will post again in a few months regarding his comfort level, etc.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, Mar 28, 2011 - 4:17 am:
Very interesting Jones. Thanks for posting this!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 28, 2011 - 8:16 am:
Very interesting! Thank you Elk and Jones. Hope both continue to do well.
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