This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Respiratory System » Colds, Influenza, and Upper Respiratory Infection »
  Discussion on Audible breathing, coughing, runny yellow nose...miserable
Author Message
New Member:
staceyb

Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2008 - 5:09 pm:

I purchased a 16yr old TB gelding about 3 weeks ago. He became ill about 5 days ago, with audible breathing (although he had a runny nose before that). I'd like to start a penicillin regimen but am unsure of the dosage. He weighs about 1100 lbs. None of the other horses that he's in the pasture with are sick. We're in texas, although he is relatively new to TX. Any suggestions?
Member:
erika

Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2008 - 6:55 pm:

Stacey, I don't think it wise to start penicillin if you don't know what you are dealing with. At best it could be ineffective, at worst you could have something horrible like a bad case of bastard strangles. Strangles must be caught very early in order for penicillin to help. Given late it can lead to complications.
I realize it may not be strangles, but until you know what it is, you could do more harm than good.
Can you get a vet to culture the snot in order to see if what you're dealing with will respond to the penicillin?
New Member:
staceyb

Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2008 - 7:53 pm:

I agree with you - in theory - but was influenced to a degree by others at my barn who have many horses, and the fact that it was the weekend and I don't really have a vet available for weekend calls yet (I have an appt. on this coming friday to have his shots and his teeth floated)...This morning he had a temp of 102.2; this afternoon his temp was 101.3...I'm definitely calling the vet in the am - but with some vets in our area charging a $90 barn call - well, money isn't an object when it comes to health care, but still....
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 27, 2008 - 7:54 am:

Welcome Stacey,
I agree with Ericka's overall assessment, if not the details of her post. I do not think that giving proper doses of penicillin to horses with Strangles causes bastard strangles. It is true that if started after remarkable lymphadenopathy it will not stop the abscesses from coming on however.

Your post shows no clear evidence that antibiotics are indicated and if this is a virus there are medications that will be more effective than antibiotics at making your horse feel better as described in the article. The article also addresses important diagnostic steps to help identify early if this might be Strangles, the most common upper respiratory bacterial disease likely to be present. Also discussed are steps to prevent others from getting exposed.

I cannot say antibiotics are not indicated for your horse however but firmly believe that the use of antibiotics should be done under the supervision of a veterinarian. For more on this see:
Treatments and Medications for Horses » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Antibiotic Use in Horses: An Overview
and for information on penicillin use see:
Treatments and Medications for Horses » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Penicillin.
DrO
New Member:
staceyb

Posted on Monday, Oct 27, 2008 - 1:44 pm:

last night, I gave Guinness 12 cc's of penicillin G (I didn't have a 20cc syringe, and was convinced that this dosage would help) I came home, had major second thoughts about my decision, and called the vet to meet me at the barn this morning.
Guinness was no longer wheezing when he walked, his runny nose was much less, and clear instead of yellow/green, and his temperature was 96. (It was a cool day here). He was practically fine. The vet looked at him, listened to his lungs, checked him out ~ checked him out after he had been lunged for 10 minutes or so and said he was fine ~
My question is ~ was it the penicillin? How could it not have been, but how could it have been. The vet said my horse (1100lbs) needed more like 40cc's to have any effect...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 - 7:20 am:

Hello Stacey,
Well for a 1100 lb horse the normal dose of penicillin would have been more like 35 cc's but as to what would cause an effect that depends on the organism. If your horse were infected with a very sensitive bacteria, 12 cc's might help on the other hand if infected with a virus 120 ccs would not do a thing. So the real answer to the question of whether the antibiotics helped or not is unknown. Some strangles organisms might be this sensitive but with no history of exposure seems unlikely.

As to your questions of "How could it not have been?", that question is much easier. No matter what the infection, acute upper respiratory infections in horses are always self curing or at least almost always. Many, 1 or 2 out of a hundred, may have a long lasting complication. So the improvement would have been expected in time no matter what the cause or treatment. We just don't know if you sped along the process and the very low dosage is a bit suspicious of helping much.
DrO
New Member:
staceyb

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 - 8:36 am:

Yesterday afternoon, I went out to feed, and Guinness' wheezing was back (not quite as bad) and his nose discharge was starting to be greenish yellow. I went to the vet and he gave me uniprim (sulfa based powder) and seltuss (mucinex for horses)...we'll see how he is this morning, but thanks for all the information! Seems like maybe the penicillin did have some effect...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 - 5:48 pm:

As you have probably noted with the colds you have had that during recovery there are periods of exacerbations and improvement until much better. From the other point of view it should be noted that the strep that causes Strangles is much more sensitive to penicillin than potentiated sulfas and would be the drug of choice.
DrO
New Member:
staceyb

Posted on Thursday, Nov 6, 2008 - 12:50 pm:

Following up - Guinness is better, the vet put him on the uniprim...now - all of the other horses in the barn are getting sick. Is this strangles? He responded to the uniprim, but still wheezes a little bit - The barn wants to put all the horses on Penicillin prophylacticly to clear the infection up completely....does that sound like a good idea? My vet told me not to vaccinate for strangles because my horse was 16 years old, does that make sense?}
Member:
staceyb

Posted on Thursday, Nov 6, 2008 - 9:56 pm:

The vet came out again. Assured me that a 16 year old horse won't get strangles,doesn't need to be vaccinated against it, etc. He does believe that at least two of the younger horses in the barn have strangles (swollen glands under their jaw, coughing, wheezing). Guinness has 100.9 temp tonite, and the vet said that if he has fever tomorrow, to start him on 35cc of penicillin twice daily...does this sound consistent with treatment for strangles? I had planned to trail ride with him in 1 1/2 weeks...his symptoms are more or less gone, except for this new fever...
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Nov 6, 2008 - 10:32 pm:

I'm glad Guinness is doing better, but wonder about the renewed fever. I wonder if the lower doses of penicillin didn't just slow things down for awhile and now it's coming back. Your vet's advice sounds good if Guinness does have strangles. Just a note about the strangles vaccine; we give all our horses that are around outside horses for any reason (like showing) get strangles vaccine. Our two stallions, ages 15 and 18, are in training and show and still get strangles vaccines regardless of their ages. Maybe Dr.O could comment about whether this is "the norm" or needed or not. I've never had a horse get a reaction to the vaccine.
Member:
wgillmor

Posted on Friday, Nov 7, 2008 - 12:19 am:

Stacey,

The barn I used to board at went through Strangles. Horses from 6 to 32 got it, including at least one that was 16.

With maybe one exception, the only horses that didn't get it were vaccinated.

Wiley
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, Nov 7, 2008 - 7:19 am:

Stacey, not sure if your vet feels he shouldn't give the Strangles vaccine right now, since your horse isn't feeling well, but like Sara's horses, my mare, age 18, does get it. She does go to shows and is exposed to other horses who show. She's never had a reaction to vaccine.
Member:
staceyb

Posted on Friday, Nov 7, 2008 - 7:50 am:

I did worm him yesterday with ivermectin. Can that cause a slight fever? If he had strangles (green creamy nose, cough, wheezing) and he took the uniprim for 5 days; would that resolve it? Its been a week since he finished the uniprim and now this fever, when he had been fever free...just trying to figure it out...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Nov 7, 2008 - 8:30 am:

Hello Stacey,
We really cannot answer the question of what your horses have however I would note that you write your veterinarian thinks it is Strangles. I agree that while it is more prevalent in the young horses of any age can contract it.

You will find more information on how to diagnose and treat Strangles in the article Diseases of Horses » Respiratory System » Strangles & Streptococcus equi.
DrO
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Friday, Nov 7, 2008 - 9:02 am:

Did the vet give a reason why he feels a 16yr old horse won't get strangles? Is he assuming some kind of acquired immunity?

Reread the article on strangles, I am fairly sure I saw that it is not recommended to give the strangles vaccine to a horse that has it or has had it recently because it can cause ? that causes swelling in the legs.
I am not sure if a vaccine would provide more future immunity than the disease itself, (if that is what he has)
Perhaps Dr. O could yay or nay that idea.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC