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  Discussion on 2 year old colt with a strange skin condition
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Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 11, 2008 - 5:52 pm:

Dr O,

About a year ago, my now 2 year old ( then yearling)developed a weird patch of skin on right side of the mid portion of his back. It is about the size of two clenched fists put side by side. He still has it today, after antibiotics, fulvacin, antibacterial, antimicrobial baths, medicating creams and sprays. It never changes in size, it does itch him and he likes being curried and brushed in this spot. It does scab up but looks more like dry, scaly skin than anything else described in the skin disease articles. It does not seem to affect his performance.

Any clue as to what this may be? It doesn't appear to fit the skin conditions mentioned in the articles and it seems to be of long term duration despite several different types of treatment.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 7:17 am:

Hello Rachelle,
Do the scabs bleed if they are disturbed Rachelle? A large patch of hyperkeratosis (scaliness) that persists for several years suggest a chronic inflammatory process. What could be irritating the horse here for years?
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 9:08 am:

Yes, they do bleed when disturbed and after I curry him, the areas that are bleeding appear to be round, hence the treatment with Fulvucin ( ringworm).

As far as something irritating him. He rarely wears a blanket, none of the harness parts including the saddle pad or the crupper hits or rubs this particular area. He has been on straw bedding and shavings and that did not make a difference. He has also been in a wood stall and in a cinder block stall and that made no difference either.

What type of chronic inflammatory process could this be?
What can I do to finally clear it up?

I will see if there are any HA articles on chronic inflammatory skin diseases.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 8:23 am:

Infection? Permanently scarred skin that cannot heal properly? Congenitally defective skin that cannot function properly to prevent trauma and infection? Those are the first that come to mind but others are possible.

I would recommend a examination followed by culture under one of the freshly disturbed scabs and a biopsy of the area, especially any newly developed edges that include the abnormal and normal sections. This will be your best stab at getting a diagnosis. It is important that you apply no treatments in the preceding 2 weeks either systemically or orally to avoid confusing the results.

I would be interested in good photos of the area.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 8:29 pm:

Dr. O,
I may have jumped the gun about this skin irritation. I don't think I let the treatments ( baths, fulvacin etc.) work to their full effects before I posted on this topic.

I just completed a six day fulvacin treatment and the antibacterial antimicrobial baths are an ongoing thing.

The area appears to be getting smaller about the size of one fist now. You cannot see anything from pictures because the hair is grown back. You can still feel bumps under the hair.

I had the vet look at it today, he poked and prodded it ( colt is not sensitive to the poking and prodding), asked me how long he has had it and than told me to ignore it. I am not happy with his advice about ignoring it, so I will continue with what I am doing and see if the rest of it clears up.

Thanks
Rachelle
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 - 8:22 pm:

Hi Dr. O,

It's been a while since I posted about this colt's skin condition because basically, it never really changed much even with all the treatments. Even after the vet told me to ignore it, I kept treating it. The area remained relatively unchanged. About a month ago, I started using something called Effol Skin Balm on it, it's basic ingredient is Zinc Oxide, I have never used this product before and really did not think it would work, but I thought that maybe if I tried to protect it at least it would be a step in the right direction since nothing else worked on it.

Lo and Behold a few days later, while currying him the recurrent scabs started to fall off and not reoccur, the skin patch has become smooth and not scaly and it looks like normal hair is starting to regrow, although it looks like peach fuzz now.

Is there an explanation for why zinc oxide would work on this, when everything else failed?

Have you ever heard of this Product?(Effol)

Can horses get scratches on their backs? (this worked on his heel scratches too). He only had heel scratches on his right side ( front and back).

Thanks
Rachelle
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 - 10:23 pm:

Rachelle, zinc oxide is really good to use on skin irritations for both its "drying" action and its ability to shrink inflamed tissue. it is also very water proof, and will even keep sweat out of a wound.

Effol is a rather expensive brand of zinc oxide...you would save time and money by going to the baby isle in Wal-Mart and purchasing Desitin, as it is the exact same thing (although Effol probably has a greater percentage of zinc in it). It is very effective in sores, injuries, or dry scaly skin around the anus, reproductive organs, and the inside of their hind legs. We used it quiet a bit in the practice I worked at. Hope this helps!
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 - 10:25 pm:

Rachelle, one thing I did not mention that is also effective, especially in allergic reactions and really itchy spots is a paste of colloidal oatmeal. You can find it also at Wal-Mart under the skin care isle.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 - 7:58 am:

Just as Jesse says diaper rash ointments are antimicrobial and antiinflammatory and offer protection from wetness. Why this worked when other treatments did not or if it was just time for this to heal, is hard to say without knowing what the initial problem was.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 - 3:14 pm:

Jesse and Dr. O,

At one point last year, I had used the CVS brand of Zinc oxide ( 40 %) on this area. The area remained unchanged, so I am not sure if it's the zinc oxide itself that worked or the combination of ingredients that are in the Effol and not in the Zinc Oxide ointment.

I am going to compare the ingredients since I have a tube of both to see what the differences are.

I find it hard to think after almost two years of no change that this decided to heal on its own all of a sudden, but I guess stranger things have happened.

All I know is that I am glad it's going away and the hair is growing back. I kept thinking he had something wrong with him internally and it was showing up externally on his skin.

Thanks again
Rachelle
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 - 9:20 pm:

If you don't mind Rachelle, could you share your comparison of the two? I am thinking that the only "medicine" or active ingredient in both is zinc oxide, but am really curious to know for sure!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Feb 20, 2009 - 3:34 pm:

Jesse,

"Rain rot" can appear on the back and be similar to the "scratches," and either can appear during similar environmental conditions.

And it doesn't always appear on account of rain either.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 20, 2009 - 9:47 pm:

Your perception is a common one Rachelle but look at this from the other direction: for two years you tried one treatment after another. Let's assume this was going to heal on its own then whatever treatment you used just before it healed would appear to be the miracle treatment.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 - 11:10 am:

Dr. O,

I would normally agree with you, but for the two months previous to starting with the Effol. I really did not do much to this area. The colt was blanketed, very rarely got a bath due to the cold weather and was curried every day trying to remove the scabs and most of the scaly skin. The scabs and the scaliness kept coming back, until I started using the Effol. Within 2 days of starting this, I noticed an improvement.

My scientific research methods may not be at the highest level, but if everything else remains the same and you change 1 variable and there is noticeable improvement, I would tend to think that the treatment worked. I didn't look at this as a miracle cure, just glad that it happened.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - 8:09 am:

Note Rachelle, that I am not disagreeing that this was the reason it got well, I am saying a one time event is a poor proof. Except in mathematics, you never control just one variable. Over the past two months hundreds of small things and more than just a few big things have changed I'll bet.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - 12:41 pm:

Hi Dr. O and Jesse,

I finally remembered to bring home the CVS Diaper Rash ointment and the Effol Skin Balm.

Here are the ingredients of both, straight off the labels. I had to look up what some of the ingredients were and what they could be used for.

CVS Diaper rash ointment- Active ingredient-40% Zinc oxide. Inactive ingredients-BHA(preservative), cod liver oil ( high in vitamins A & D), fragrance,lanolin, methyparaben ( preservative, fungicide), petrolatum, talcum and purified water.

The CVS label says promotes healing, protects skin and relieves chafing. It is also hypoallergenic.

Effol Skin Balm- Panthenol, ethereal oils, zinc oxide, urea, bisabolol, methyl salicylate.

From the Effol Skin balm label- Innovative care cream for damaged skin area. Ethereal oils ( I had to look this up to see what these oils were) reduce irritation. Forms a protective film against virus, fungi, and bacteria. Panthenol supports the healing process. Oxide of Zinc forms a protective film against moisture and at the same time has a moisture-regulating effect.

Panthenol-humectant, emolient, moisturizer. It improves hydration, reduces itching and inflammation of the skin and accelerates and improves healing of epidermal wounds.

Ethereal oils ( or essential oils) are extracted from plants ( Wikipedia).

Urea- Among other things, it is used as a fungicide and in dermatological products that rehydrate the skin. (https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-urea.htm)

Bisabolol- It is known to have an anti-irritant, anti-inflammatory, and anti-microbial properties (wikipedia).

Methyl salicylate ( oil of wintergreen)- Fragrance with aspirin like properties( wikipedia).

From the labels it looks like Panthenol is the main ingredient in the Effol Skin Balm and the Zinc oxide is the main ingredient in the CVS diaper rash ointment.

The two products to me are very different in their composition and how they are formulated and the Effol skin balm seems to be a more natural product( maybe only in my mind) but even though it is a much more pricier product. It appears to have worked better than the CVS diaper rash ointment ( all other things considered).

I have one more comment, even though this does not say it is hypoallergenic, I have a filly that reacts to anything but water and poultice on her legs ( and I have tried just about everything, including preparations that say they will not irritate). I am very limited in what I use on her, yet she does not react to the use of the Effol skin balm on her heels and any irritations that I see are cleared up in a few days.

I found this comparision very interesting and informative and these have been my observations so far.

Rachelle
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - 8:53 pm:

Rachelle, just playing devils advocate here, but out of the ingredients of Effol, only zinc oxide and panthenol have been scientifically tested, so if Effol was the cure, I would just guess that the combination of the two were the culprit.

As for your filly, try a paste of colloidal oatmeal on her legs, as it is both cheaper and effective. The oatmeal both soothes and "draws out" any irritation, and is really good on irritation and inflammation caused by insect bites and stings and from natural or synthetic chemicals, ie poison sumac or battery acid (second one is a little wild, but couldn't think of nothing else). It comes in little pouches, and the directions tell you how to make a "bath", but instead add just enough water to make a paste just thick enough to stay on the skin. And it is as natural as you can get. But if the Effol is working and you are more comfortable sticking with it, you seem to have found a winner. It does have a lot of natural ingredients, with panthenol being the only chemical I saw. Any way, I have turned this into an essay, sorry. Congrats on getting it squared away!
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 - 9:59 pm:

Jesse,

Maybe it is the combination, who knows.

As far as the filly goes as long as I keep everything off of her and that includes any kind of soap or shampoo, she does fine. The irritations were in her heels and I think they were caused by a change in the hoof ointment I was using. I rarely used any hoof ointment on her and never had a problem with her heels. I tried wunderhoof and I think it was too strong for her. Now I am using Farrier's formula and that seems to be ok. I put the Effol in her heels for two days and the irritation went away.

You can see a picture of her if you do a search on road rash ( The discussion should be the first one on the search page).

Don't worry about your post being an essay, mine just about always are.

Thanks for your comments.
Rachelle
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