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Discussion on Colic Problem
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New Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 3, 2008 - 11:11 am:
Paint Mare is sick I need ideas.
She has colic's she looks bloated when she is sick after colic passes she looks fine no swelling , the swelling is more on right side when she is unwell , has been on regumate 3 months vet thought ovaries the problem so this is why... she has coliced twice since we started regumate so I may take her off this,
Vet said possible still a problem to leave her on regumate,
She has sand/ sediment in her urine and the vet says this is who she is that she makes a lot… it is called sediments and she makes a huge amount… she looks like she is swollen over right kidney she has been at lg horse hospital four times twice during trip in emergence the pain could not be controlled as soon as the truck stopped moving she was a lot better the pain seemed to come every time we hit a bump in the road . While she was there a small partial blockage was found I was told that this is the most common colic it usually undoes with a trailer ride or hand walking.
The fist time she got sick 5 years ago it started out as a uterine infection but she now is clean.
She only started this stuff in the last year.
She has had huge overlie cysts in past.every spring and fall sometimes in the early spring March.
her last 3 colic's have passed in a few weeks she is not her self during this time but if you did not know her you would think all is well during the few weeks that she feels unwell.
The colic's seem to come to a head over this time, she will squeal and kick out then crunch up her back end like she had cold water put over her back side she will tuck in her rump like a spasm has come when walked or exercised she will lay down and flat on her side, after banimie is given she gets better and seems fine some times for days some times for a few months.
Her disposition is grumpy and even hates her self when she looks in the arena mirror
her diet is 12% grain sweet feed and timothy hay the vet said to try and reduce her protein so she would not make so much sediment in her urine. Treat pain with banimin and they do not know what is wrong with her.
I have a wonderful vet but I need ideas we are talking about full spay on her in spring.
Any ideas ....
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 3, 2008 - 8:07 pm:
Hello and welcome to HA.
I guess I'm confused about the timeline and the various symptoms/diagnoses. It might help some of us if you could lay it out a bit more clearly, and include her vitals (temp., respiration, eating? drinking?) and any bloodwork or diagnostic info. from your vet or the vet hospital. Is the problem that she intermittently colics, and you believe it to be associated with ovulation?
Hope DrO or someone who reads better than I do can help. It sounds distressing.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 7:58 am:
Welcome Little One,
From the information in your post it is unclear what is causing your horses colic and there are dozen of possibilities. Ovarian cysts don't often present with colic and the mild impaction seems a bit of a iffy diagnosis. Sediment in the urine of horses is a normal finding. Note that in each of these cases we cannot rule these problems out as a cause of colic but to rule them in more strongly requires more information.
At this point your best bet is to start with the article Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Colic in Horses » An Overview of Colic. This article discusses common disease and management factors that cause colic and the recommended diagnostic techniques.
DrO
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New Member:
littleon
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 11:07 am:
Thank you for your response I am not sure how to write in a legible manner to make my mares symptoms more understandable she has many and I have gone on to much.
Thank you for reading between my errors.
I have been everyplace within 10hrs drive to find how to help her. She has had all the tests done and blood work is normal everything that could be offered by the 2 hospitals I took and still we have no answers
This mare takes care of use and my child she will play polo mid goal level and then go to the fairs the next day with my 7 year old, she is our friend
I will start reading the articles you recommend.
Because of the spasms I saw her have I think it is possible she might have back problem like a disc out of line or a nerve bothering her or bladder stones.
If it is colic which it might be she never goes off her feed.
I will keep you posted.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 7:21 am:
Hell Kim,
As the article I directed you to will tell you: loss of appetite is important to the diagnosis of abdominal pain. So I agree with your implied opinion that even this assessment is up in the air and with this latest piece of information of a good appetite less likely. Let me see if I can sum up your description above:
The episodes last several weeks and during most of this time the horse would look normal to an outside observer. The episode eventually builds to a acute episode of tucking the rear end, squealing, kicking out, and laying down on her side. However the horse will willingly eat during this acute episode.
Following this acute episode the horse quickly returns to absolutely normal behavior and will remain normal for days to weeks before repeating the above scenario. One thing I remain confused about is the "grumpy" behavior. Is this always present or just during the few weeks of an episode?
Has you mare had a inhibin test done for a granulosa cell tumor and if so what were the results and the lab's normals?
DrO
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New Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 10:58 am:
I have checked with both hospitals and our vet , there was no inhibin test done so it sounds like a good idea by getting one done. One of the biggest problems I have is with the reporting of blood test that have been done.
I would like too get the type & results in full detail, they are only verbal except were it is marked blood work cost on bill.
So from here on they are in writing when done for easy reference in my office and the attending.
I was reading about ulcers today on one of the other sections of your website I am also going to look into to the possibility that she may have one, as I said earlier her symptoms are on the right side, like the posts I read concerning ulcers.
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New Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 11:07 am:
She has this one particular symptom that I clipped from the other post.
}Swollen glands under the jaw bone are also symptoms of a problematic stomach at different stages.
The stomach can also cause an imbalance of the thyroid gland function. Stomach and thyroid problems will often have a common cause that can arise from improper feeds, which contains allergy inducing substances.
The thyroid’s hormones will indirectly affect the function of the adrenal glands and their effect on the calcium/sodium balance.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 3:03 pm:
Hmmm the thyroid and stomach thing just ain't so in the horse kim so I would let it go as a cause of colic.
DrO
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Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 5:23 pm:
Ok thanks.
Good to know.
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Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 2:39 pm:
We found the cause of little Ones Colic's and she is getting better every day
I had many more consults and blood work done and ultra sounds and you name it.
Then on Jan 7th she coliced very badly
I took her to a clinic that my vet said did not have gastroscope turns out he has had one for over a year, He also told not to bother if I could drive her to this place I could drive the 5 hours to the equine hospital.
I did not agree as her pain in the trailer was worsened by the bumps on the road.
We got to the clinic at 10 miles an hour her pain was terrible he could not put gastroscope down her throat because of inflammation he started her on antacid she had been getting for 3 weeks gastrogaurd prior but it was not enough the major problem but worse than this he also told me my horse had had abdominal surgery for an umbilical hernia when she was a baby I found the breeder and this was confirmed.
she has adhesions 6 inches in length they were really acting up he found them very easily he felt under her tummy seems hard to believe that all the pain and worry and money and he looked her over properly LIKE UNDER HER TUMMY he felt the scar tissue I had felt these little bumps but I did not know they were scar tissue,
As I said earlier she had been 2 hospitals 3 times and 2 vets later.
2 days into her stay he tried again with the gastroscope and found she had acid reflux and 3 ulcers brought about by god knows but it sure has been one tough road but she is getting better and coming home we are treating the adhesions with enzyme injection to break them down.
Well a happy ending I thought I knew everything about my horse but I did not know she had had surgery before I bought her, none of this would make a difference as I would have bought her anyways but it sure could have saved her this pain.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 4:03 pm:
Wow, Kim; I can't believe that the breeder didn't tell you about her surgery! I'm very glad you found out what was causing her problem. Poor girl! I really like her face in the picture above, she looks very sweet. I can tell you don't think much of her too!
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Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 5:08 pm:
Well you know the breeder had the surgery done when she was 4 months old and they sold her to the
head of the APHA for Canada when she was 2 years old they never thought to mention it.
When I bought her it was a short time after he had purchased her.
I have looked for the breeders ever since because I wanted to see if she had any family that I could buy.
They were near impossible to find when I found them they were crying because they had wanted her back after they sold her and changed their minds.
They never new were she went they loved her very much and they are pretty old.
So I don't blame anyone but I hope the vets and the students at the hospital all learn to look and do a real check over on a horse especially one that is a strange presentation like this. thanks for your compliments.
Kim
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 6:28 pm:
Delighted to hear about the discovery of the esophagitis and ulceration and that treatment is helping. However I am uncertain about the adhesions and their relation to what is happening. Can you explain this in greater detail. Are these adhesions from the umbilical surgery and what is adhered to what?
DrO
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Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 8:07 pm:
DrO
I certainly am delighted to explain.
The adhesion's are indeed from her surgery on her Umbilical hernia. They are adhered to her bowel for 6 inches they are bad.... ultra sounded to confirm.
She has had these symptoms since I got her the squealing and pinching up but never anything as I have had since last August., but mostly they come in the fall and the spring with change of diet like back to hay. What I have now are 3 ulcers That is certain, She is improving daily and another decider for me is when she was 5 years old she gave birth at 9 1/2 months She could not hold the foal it was like it was to much to carry and she tried to give birth.she tried to deliver at 7 months before I brought her inside on bed rest and she held till 9 1/2 and she has had uncomfortable episodes even as far back as when I took her hunting at 3 years old and she squeezed continuously in her stall pushing herself against the wall we thought it was her heat cycle.
Well there is so much more as you can imagine but maybe this gives a better description.
I am not very good at the writing stuff but I sure had to fight hard to save my mare and fight for her.
I really want to thank you so much for your ear and the board which I am really learning from and enjoying and also your comments and guidance on this thread they were very helpful during the most difficult time I have ever had with a horse and that is saying a lot I have done this on my ranch for 45 years and I thought I had seen it all.
Thank you for your site it is very supportive I appreciate it very much Especially when the Vet stopped listening and had said you just have to manage this, stop calling so much and learn to give the banime IV yourself nice ah! When I was in tears and shaking .It still makes me want to cry I cant believe that this is what happened to us.
I really cant but I am so happy she is fine Fine Fine now.
By the way my vet is only human he seems like has a lot of work and we were really bothering him to help us he started out the best Vet anywhere he just got tierd of being called out.
But I was paying my bills which all in till know close to twenty thousand most of which sits with the farm vet and her previous vet that quit...When she got frustrated. They are all paid .
I have still this past month which is in clinic care last look it was around 3.000
Well I am off to night chore I look forward to anything you could add .
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Member:
littleon
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 9:22 pm:
I just want to include some photos and say why I fought so hard for Little One.
I have many horses I love them all, but none have carried me to win Honours in Ontario the OEF the presidents award this past year . She helped me do this, I would never let any of the horses on this ranch take my little boy to all the fairs She knows not run when he really wanted to go fast she new he was not ready, she just trots and a little canter to let him think he was flying.
She has been written up as recently as last year in the Paint horse journal about her work in polo and her work with disabled children and in the make a wish foundation. and she is the fastest paint in polo, I will tell you that when all the fancy Argentine Thoroughbreds are on the field up in Meadow Brook Long Island polo club they were watching her butt because they could not catch her so this is why I went the distance I love Her and cant bare my life without her but I would never let her suffer.My Little Boy prayed over her when she wanted to die with the pain and he asked for a miracle he asked God to please don't let Little One die
I came very close to putting her down, I could not breathe. This is what a powerful connection can be had between horse and rider this is why horses have been so treasured for centuries I now understand she taught me this.
 
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 9:36 pm:
Wonderful story, Kim. Your Little One is definitely meant to be with you. I am sure that anyone else would have given up on her.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 - 9:02 am:
Thanks for the kudos kim. Though the esophagitis/gastritis seems straight forward I am having a problem with this umbilical hernia / bowel adhesion thing.
I would guess the adhesions would be to the cecum? And what type enzyme injections are you using to beak down these presumably mature adhesions? If you have proteolytic enzymes that break down connective tissue, which is what an adhesion is, it might (should?) be damaging to all kinds of healthy connective tissue...or am I missing something here?
DrO
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Member:
littleon
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 12, 2009 - 10:29 pm:
Hello DrO I am picking her up tomorrow and I will get the info then, I can not spell the name of the Enzymes ingredient being used, I will get it, Its a big word Helloooo. I am a blond mascarading as a red head.
By the way I also asked the same question about the break down of other flesh and I was told that it would not do that.I am going to ask again and ask why it would not do this if it breaks down adhesions would it not break down healthy tissue Thanks for the push.
As for the cecum I will also have this for you then too.She is doing really well without the shots of enzyme,,, so perhaps it was much to do with her Digestion as anything,, and everything just got very inflamed.The vet wanted to wait and see if she settled down and she did, I am the one pushing for the shots after he told me about them.
They are not here yet but, he said I can bring her home and do the shots later.
Kim
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