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  Discussion on Thrush/heel issues normal recovery time?
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New Member:
lghocelo

Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 11:42 am:

I purchased a 3 yr.old TB directly off the racetrack on Oct. 5. His feet were not bad, in terms of horn quality and racer's long toe/poor heel, although all 4 soles were mealy and thin. After a couple of weeks he developed thrush in both hind feet, with swelling well up the leg in the LH--not unusual in upstate NY's wet and muddy fall. He was not lame at all, even after ten minutes of trotting, even on small circles.

My farrier pulled all 4 shoes, pared the frogs. I treated thrush with epsom/betadine soaks and Hooflex Thrush Remedy (Chloroxylenol 5.0%; Aluminum ChlorhyDrOxy Allantoinate 0.25%).

Horse was sound for a few days after pulling shoes, then became gradually increasingly lame on the LH. He began resting on his toe LH when stalled. Lameness was most obvious for the first few strides; he clearly tried to land on toe.

Vet came, diagnosed deep thrush in both hind, worse in LH where there was obvious sensitive tissue involvement. He gave me Pfizer's Quartermaster (Penicillin in oil), instructing me to clean area well with betadine and insert Quartermaster into the deep infected areas. He also commented that there was a great deal of movement between the sides of the heels, which was exacerbating sensitivity. He suggested shoes might speed recovery.

Farrier came, put shoes on front, but didn't want to shoe behind because of thrush, feeling it would reduce circulation in frogs and slow healing. I trust him completely; he has transformed my WB mare's way of going and kept her very sound.

I have followed the betadine/Quartermaster regimen for 3 weeks. Thrush appears gone: no smell, and main part of the frog is healthier. However, the heel cracks persist bilaterally, and horse still rests LH heel when he's in his stall. Lameness is much reduced, but he's still off intermittently LH, which is more visible on harder surface and on small circles to the Left.

I began using formalin on the soles of all 4 feet after shoes were pulled, daily for a week and now twice a week. Horse is turned out when possible, but we are in a sea of mud up here so some days he is lunged twice a day instead, in indoor with excellent footing. He is not in real work since he is only 3 and just off the track; my intention is to do groundwork and let him come down over winter and then restart under saddle in the spring.

My question: is three weeks a normal recovery time for very deep thrush, or is there likely something else going on that contributes to heel pain and lameness? Should I leave him barefoot behind and just be patient? Or should I insist that the farrier put shoes on behind to stabilize the heels laterally and allow them to heal?

Thanks for your input!
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 2:47 pm:

Laura, I use a product called TOMORROW dry cow.. it is cephapirn benzathine cream, actually looks like glue.. you can get it at the feed stores, it comes in small tubes with a point so that you can insert it into the frog.. this stuff BAR NONE is the best product for thrush.. It works fast and is so easy to use..

Good luck..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
gailkin

Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 4:14 pm:

Laura,
Curing thrush can be a long process as many of us have discovered. The thrush you may see is often not the problem as there can be hidden pockets deep in the frog and on the frog corium. When you start treatment of a healthy looking frog that doesn't seem to have any thrush, you sometimes find that the frog will then disintegrate because of the deeper problem areas. As I mentioned on the post above yours, Linda has a good article on her website that explains how to attack the thrush and various signs that your horse may have thrush. Of course deep sulcuses or deep cracks in heels are easy signs, but there are more subtle things too. Her website is www.healthyhoof.com
Do not put shoes on your horse to stabilize the heels. Shoes cause lots of problems, but stabilizing the heels to heal is not one of them. Beside the extra concussion and peripheral loading, shoes cause the flow of blood into the hoof to be greatly reduced. There are lots of studies on this matter and it is complicated but you can find lots of info on the web about Dr. Bowker's research into hoof anatomy and function. In addition to soaking the hoof to cure thrush, you can scrub with a Lysol solution or Dawn dishwashing solution and use a topical (not the usual purple stuff or Coppertox) recommended in Linda's article. I have been using Vicks Vaporub as a topical as well because it cures fungus in human toenails and it has been somewhat successful. The problem is that if you are not vigilant and regular, then the damage will continue, often below the outside of the frog where you can't even see it or deep in hidden pockets. My guess is that most horses that are sore barefoot have thrush issues causing the problem. When you can cure the thrush you have a sound horse as long as the trim is correct. Some stoic horses are very sound even with thrush, but that is another matter. It sounds like your farrier is willing to work with you and this problem and I agree that leaving the horse barefoot will help and not hurt his healing.
Good luck. I have to run to an appointment. I have heard good things about the Tomorrow product on the barefoothorsecare@yahoogroups.com website where we share info on barefoot horses and horse care.
Gail
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 7:55 am:

Hello Laura,
If the thrush was bad enough to expose sensitive tissue it will take more than 3 weeks to grow normal horn back so you may still be seeing sensitivity from the thin new horn, particularly on gravel surfaces. Of course that is not saying the same as this is what the cause of your horse's problem, that has to be done by someone examining the horse. Concerning the formaldehyde use be sure you do not over-dry the solar horn this can be a hard judgement to make but once the sole gets to the desired toughness use the formaldehyde very judiciously and with professional supervision.

I am uncertain exactly what you mean by heel cracks, can you post a image of this?

I went and checked the site Gail links to above and believe the number of different recommendations confusing and many of the treatments recommended of questionable efficacy. We give straight forward simple instructions on treating Thrush that will work at Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Thrush.
DrO
New Member:
lghocelo

Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 3:43 pm:

Thanks, Dr. O. He's improved a great deal, so it seems likely that thin horn is the issue. I have followed your recommendations on thrush, along with my vet's. I am quite certain the active infection is under control. He is pretty much sound, although he does still rest that foot on the toe after exercise.

As for the cracks: they are in the fur above the cleft of the frog, where the calloused part blends into skin on the back of the pastern. Small (half inch high, centimeter deep), but clearly sensitive. Similar in appearance to badly chapped lips, for example, or cracks I've seen on farmers' hands. I'll try to get a picture. I've kept a thick coating of Icthammol ointment smeared on them the past few days, which seems to help.

When you hold the either hind hoof in your hand bottom up, palms against opposite sides of the hoof, thumbs on the horn of the heel where it contacts the ground, you can twist the foot and move the heel bulbs independently. Obviously this deepens the crack in the cleft of the frog and in the soft tissue above-- that is what my vet showed me to illustrate his reasoning to recommend a shoe until the hoof is solid.

I suspect my farrier will agree now that the thrush is cleared up. I have no experience with thrush this bad and how long it will take to heal, which was the main thrust of my question.
Member:
twadwis

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 9:36 am:

Not knowing your strength it would be only guessing whether the amount of independent movement of the heel bulbs you describe is good or bad. I say that because when we trim the heel bulb movement is what we look for when we set the foot down. A healthy foot should 'flex' and the usual problem is a 'locked' foot with tall contracted heels, not heels that move too much. Usually when you have cracks in the hair above the heel they are just a continuation of tight squeezed heel bulbs (which was probably your horse with shoes on). I would also think a horse who had heels so loose they needed shoes would also be lame and you say your horse is not? Perhaps a couple of photos of would help us get an idea of what's happening.
Member:
lghocelo

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 10:04 am:

Thanks, Tania, but it was my vet who felt heels were too loose, and farrier agreed, but wanted the thrush cleared before shoeing. Cracks weren't there, and and horse was sound with shoes, even with deep thrush. Cracks developed and he became lame only after pulling shoes (he's been barefoot for a few weeks). He moves sound at walk, and trot is improving gradually with occasional painful step at trot on small circle and resting his heels when he is stalled, especially after exercise.
Member:
twadwis

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 12:50 pm:

So does either the vet or farrier say why the heel bulbs would move so much? Is it the heels or the wall moving? Are they moving up and down or outward? What is it that they think may cause this problem? If it was due to deep seated thrush eating away at inner tissue how normal does the sole, frog, heel look? I have doubts about the way we use the term sound, for example, a navicular horse is described as sound (no longer limping) with special shoeing but is it really? Could one sell a horse like that as 'sound'? Just like your horse seemed sound with shoes yet had deep thrush. It is good to remember that just because a horse doesn't limp it doesn't automatically mean sound. Perhaps Dr O you could clarify ? As you can guess I'm very interested in equine feet, amazing structure.}
Member:
lghocelo

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 2:37 pm:

Heels are loose because has thin walls and very, very thin soles--not unusual for OTTBs shod every 2-3 weeks, pared too aggressively, and spend 23 hours/day standing in a stall. Both vet and farrier think the foot will strengthen and stabilize over time now that he is receiving proper care, but vet believes that heel issues are likely to resolve faster with shoes in the meantime.

By sound I mean no visible irregularity of gait. No horse is perfect, so soundness is always a continuum of some kind or other, depending on the horse's intended use, history, conformation, and the owner's willingness to accommodate care necessary to keep it comfortable.

Right now I want mine to be as comfortable as possible, especially since he must cope with hard frozen ground on turn out at this time of year.
Member:
twadwis

Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 10:32 pm:

Thanks Laura.....TB feet get a bad rap and your description of why they get weak is right on.
Have you considered boots or equicasts? Huge improvements in boots the last few years. I use boots instead of shoeing when dealing with hard ground, stones and such. The nail holes left wall weak/chipping and we were always waiting for them to grow back after pulling the shoes, one step forward, one back.
I too want them comfortable and it's funny how my 'don't mess with my feet' gelding now knows about his boots and is a happy camper putting them on...he's a driving horse and fly with his boots.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2008 - 5:11 am:

I have seen cracks like this and if you quit seeing improvement with the ichthammol would recommend triple antibiotic ointment. Be sure the formaldehyde is not contacting this area drying it out excessively.
DrO
Member:
lghocelo

Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2008 - 8:00 am:

Thanks, Dr. O. I use neosporin under the ichthammol, inside the crack -- perhaps that's what's helping. I noticed yesterday that the cracks are mostly closed and he's comfortable on the heel when I take him out of his stall in the morning. They open up after he works or spends a few hours turned out, and then he's resting it again. I think I just need to give it time and protect the foot while it heals. Farrier is coming tomorrow, and I think we are on a good road.
Thanks for your input.
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