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Discussion on Foot problems on Libby
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 12:16 pm:
Hi Dr. O. Libby is having problems with her foot that foundered while she was so lame. This foot is on her "good" leg, not the injured leg.
She has been on a Stuart Clog shoe (Stewart?) for about a year and has been doing really good and seemed quite comfortable until the last month or so. I suspect she may have over done while turned out. Our ground has become dry and hard, and I was told that while I was gone she really ran around one day during her turn out. I'm not sure that's the problem though.
This foot initially had severe laminitis and was agressivly treated while she was at Alamo Pintado with a section of her hoof removed. The hoof is very slow growing and has very thin sole; she has rotation of the coffin, but not severe enough that it is pointed straight down towards the sole. I'm sorry I don't know the exact angle; the vet didn't say and I forgot to ask. The tip of the coffin looks like it's about 3 degrees off to my eye. I think the biggest problem is lack of hoof growth which makes it very difficult to fix her angles.
I am concerned because two days ago our farrier treated her by taping a wedge (made from blue injectable material) to her heel which raised her heel by about 1/3 of an inch. He then padded her foot with a baby diaper and taped on an Ultra boot. She remains very sore on this foot and I'm wondering if raising the heel is putting more pressure of the tip of the coffin even with padding under it.
After re-reading your article on laminitis/founder, I am wondering if this treatment is wrong, and if she would be better off in just a soft padded boot. Since, due to her thin sole and lack of hoof growth it is hard to lower her heels by trimming, is there some way to raise her toe and would doing so help her?
I am trying to avoid trailering her out of town to a clinic as I'm afraid the trip would be difficult on her, so am trying to deal with her problem locally. If I have to, I'll put her in a trailer and take her out of town. I can take her to Las Vegas where I took Waseem last summer, which is a 3 hr. drive. Do you think if she was on anti-inflamatories, the drive would cause further damage?
Thanks for your help.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 2:55 pm:
Dog gon it Sara.. don't have an answer for you.. but know you will do what ever it takes to make her more comfortable..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 3:48 pm:
Sara, want to throw a couple questions at you (having dealt with founder more than I care to)
How do they know it is the rotation bothering her? Does she have a bounding DP? heat? Was the hoof testers used on her? What's her "lameness" like?
This is speaking from my experience! Could she possibly have an abscess brewing? They can mimic founder and when applying a pad it sometimes makes them worse from the pressure. They also don't seem to go 3 legged lame (usually) when the abscess is in the back hoof. It seems an abscess almost always follows founder and I have had it happen a year later(before the new hoof is completely grown out) Normally once the coffin bone is stablized and as much time has gone by as in Libbys instance running around normally doesn't affect them. Hank runs around on hard ground all the time.
That said and if you really think it is the rotation causing the problem, this is what I have done to find the comfortable angle. I have taken the consrtuction grade styrofoam as a pad for the hoof and added some at the heel, to make more of an angle. I have to say 9 out of 10 times they are more comfortable WITHOUT the heel elevated. If you want to raise her toe add more styrofoam there. You can do many experiments with the stuff and it's fairly cheap. You can also thin the styrofoam where the coffin bone is so there isn't as much pressure. Buy lots of Duct tape!!!
I hope Libby feels better soon!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 5:36 pm:
Posi-thoughts for the lovely Libby girl and for our Sara girl too
L
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Member:
shirl
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 5:51 pm:
Hi Sara,
Sorry to hear about the latest challenge for you and Libby.
Sending loving healing thoughts for both of you.
Shirl
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 8:01 pm:
Diane, nothing showed up in either set of x-rays, taken about 3 wks. apart. Wouldn't an abcess show up in an x-ray? I think some of her soreness if from her thin sole, but some, imo, is from her heel angle being so high., which I am concerned is stressing her tendons. I think this because the vet was talking about cutting tendons in a "normal" horse but wouldn't recommend it on Libby.
She has been on styrofoam pads since she first became sore again. They didn't really help her much. Maybe I should go out and take off the boot and current pad and try and raise her toes? I keep thinking the farrier should know what he is doing, but this isn't an active case imo as there is no heat, no rapid pulse, she's just lame - not 3 legged lame, but sore enough that she doesn't want to put much weight on it. I'm concerned about her putting too much weight on her "injured" leg.
I appreciate your input as I know you've been through "the mill" at your place. I'll see what Dr. O. has to say. I'm thinking I'm going to have to take her at least down to Las Vegas to get this sorted out.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 8:04 pm:
Leslie and Shirl, thanks for your good thoughts. I could just cry. Libby looks so good, and is feeling so good in general. You know I almost bred her this past spring; I had planned to do so. But, something just told me not to. Now I'm glad I didn't. If I can get her sound enough to be comfortable again, I think I'll do embryo transfer with her. I discussed it with Lonnie and luckily he is in love with her also and was able to rationalize the cost with "well....we wouldn't be paying any stud fees..." Talk about words that make a wife's heart sing! 
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 8:55 pm:
Sara normally x-rays don't show an abscess. It's strange you say you want to raise her toe, I always wanted to do that to Hank Too, for some reason it seemed to make some sort of sense in an odd sort of way. Never tried it tho, as it doesn't seem raising the toe is used as treatment for anything, and I figured there must be a reason...maybe tendon stress? The only way I have been able to differentiate abscess from founder is the styrofoam did not help with an abscess, the lameness is more a "I don't want to put weight on it at all. With the founder it seemed they didn't want to move at all, but not a limp per se.
Did they use the hoof testers? They can tell you a lot. In a pinch I have used a pair of pliers finally broke down a bought hoof testers.
Thin soles I can commiserate, that is one of Hanks biggest problems, and your right rigid padding can make them more uncomfortable.
Regardless as far as thin soles. founder, abscess, a boot made them more comfortable for the most part. When an abscess is brewing nothing seems to help much regardless, until it pops or is drained. get those pliers out and see if you can find where her hoof is sore
Hope Dr.O. can help you out!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 9:49 pm:
Sara,
I am sorry to hear Libby is having trouble right now. I want to meet that ol' girl, she is such an inspiration.
Could you post a picture of her, a side view showing her standing with special shoe and all on? I guess with my interest in trimming, I don't understand why he would raise her heel if that means the coffin bone isn't level? I know there was so much with her injuries; and I don't remember the details, but I cannot think of any reason to not keep her coffin bone level.
I don't understand, "due to her thin sole and lack of hoof growth it is hard to lower her heels by trimming, is there some way to raise her toe and would doing so help her?" If she has little hoof growth, why are her heels not low already?
Is this because of the tendons they were damaged, correct? Is the hoof angle trying to keep the tendons from stretching?
Sorry, I can't remember, don't mean for you to post a whole detailed rehashing of her injuries, just if you would touch on the main points.
Oh, and give hubby a hug, I think it's great he's so in love with Libby. The "other woman" in his life, lol!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2008 - 10:47 pm:
I can try and get a picture, but it won'd show much. What I should do is get her x-ray and scan it, then post it. I probably won't be able to until first of the week though. I have to go to St. George (our "big town" 45 mins. away) tomorrow for most of the day, and the clinic isn't open on the weekends.
The foundered foot isn't the one with the injured tendons, although that foot also foundered a little. It isn't having any problems though. The "good" leg is the one with the problem. We took her special shoe off to put on the boot. It is an interesting shoe, though. I think our farrier has it right now. There is a web site that has a good picture of the clog, but I can't find it right now though I thought I had it bookmarked.
From the looks of her x-rays and from what the vet said, her heel should be lowered more to correct her coffin bone angle, but her heels were already lowered when she had her initial bout of laminitis and founder, and there isn't enough new growth to lower them much more than they already are - at least that is what it looks like. I wonder if a digital x-ray would give enough of a better picture to show more or something different?
On her other foot, where she literally has no DFT that aren't seperated by 4 inches of "nothing" she has a wedge to help her walk right and to keep from over extending the other tendons and ligiments of her lower leg and foot. She also has quite a bit of scar tissue for support.
Hubby gets lots of hugs...at least most of the time! I'm very lucky the other women in his life are either horses or have motors!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 7:10 am:
Sara, I wish I had some answers for you. What I do have is a whole bunch of good wishes sent your way for you to figure out what is going on and for Libby to bounce back. She beat the odds before...she'll do it again!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 7:37 am:
Hello Sara,
Without knowing why the horse is lame these are not questions that can be answered with any confidence. As to whether to raise a heel on a foundering horse or not, this would depend on whether their is ongoing rotation in the face of less aggressive therapy, something we do not know either. This decision and treatment is explained in the Overview of Founder article under the Unresponsive subtopic.
Your first step here is proper first aid for the horse with an unknown lameness, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse. And if founder is expected consider the therapy in the Founder Overview article. But your second goal should be to find out why your horse is lame: is there no veterinarian who will come out to your home? If the horse must be trailered I would trailer it facing backwards to minimize stress on the front feet.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 10:11 am:
We have a slant load; does it make a difference in a slant which way a horse faces as to pressure on the feet?
I can get our local vet to come out, but she has already been in there twice. He is "hung up" on her injured tendon leg and when I went in to see him he kept talking about some changes he thinks he is seeing in her sesamoids of that leg; but she isn't sore on her tendon leg; her soreness is in the foundered foot. What he says about that foot, and what I can see, is that her heel is too high (going by the angle of her coffin bone, and her sole is thin. So, of course this is what we are looking at as a cause of her lameness. There is no heat or swelling anywhere and no abnormal pulse. She just doesn't want to put much weight on that foot. I will get my farrier (who lives across the street) to come over sometime today and use his hoof testers on her. I don't think anyone has done that yet. It's a handicap for me where I was out of town when she first showed lameness. Troy came over and took her into the vet for me, but it's difficult for me to get the vet's initial comments second hand.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 10:23 am:
Yes even in a slant load, riding backwards will help, braking is the problem as you sometimes do not have much control on how hard you need to brake and it throws the horse forward onto the front feet. If possible I would remove the partitions so she can turn around easier and ride truly backwards.
Finding a foot abscess that can be quickly treated would be nice.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 4:17 pm:
Dr.O I'm confused. If it is Libby's back hoof that is the problem shouldn't she ride normal??? Or am I interpreting this wrong again?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 7:57 pm:
Diane, one of us is drinking, or was drinking, or needs more coffee...I'm not sure which! It's her front hoof that foundered, and her other front leg that has the tendon injury. Now I need to go back and read all this and see if I said "back hoof" anywhere....
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 8:16 pm:
 I don't know where I got back hoof from! Maybe I should start drinking!!! No wonder I was confused.
Did the farrier hoof test her today?
How is she doing?
Sorry Dr.O. I was misinterpreting again!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 5, 2008 - 11:44 pm:
I talked with my farrier this evening. He tested Libby's foot this afternoon. I had to be out of town all day, so I wasn't around when he did it. He doesn't think it's an abcess. However, he took out the wedge from the boot to see if that will help her. If she's not moving better tomorrow, he wants to take out the heel pad also.
Dr. O., if there is no heat or rapid pulse, is a case considered "active?"
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 2:15 am:
Sorry to hear of Libby's problem. I'm not quite getting "the heel angle being too high". Does that mean that she is too upright? I ask because, any time I've seen upright heels, those heels are usually contracted severely....and they are very sore.
Are her toes rolled at all? Sometimes easing the breakover eases stress throughout the legs. My navicular QH mare has been in rim pads with raised heels for better that 20 years. A few times my farriers have neglected to roll her toes....she immediately gets sore. When this is remedied, she is instantly more comfortable. I think that most horses benefit ( to varying degrees )from rolling the toe ( and easing the breakover ).
I'd love to see what Libby's front angles look like.
Now, when you spoke of slow growing hooves....I've had great results with Farriers Formula. In my horses, it replaced slow, shelly, brittle growth with fast growing, strong, healthy horn. We tried Horseshoer's Secret, which seemed to have the same ingredients....but we just didn't get the same results. Just last summer, we cut the dose in half, and, so far, the feet are doing great.
I'm sure things will work out fine for Libby. If only she could talk! Are you giving her any bute right now?
And Sara? Now that you've "outed me"( age-wise ), that was one heckuva time to grow up in.....wasn't it?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 7:41 am:
Sara the pulse doesn't get more rapid, it gets more pronounced, Ka BOOM. If you can detect her dp it is probably elevated. It takes a lot of practice to find a normal DP. I can't even detect Hanks at the moment.
I wonder if Libby could have possibly bruised her sole running around. That can make them very sore also FME.
Hope she's feeling better today!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 9:49 am:
Sara - no experience here. Just want to say I am sorry to hear about Libby's problem, and I hope you get the the bottom of it soon, and with that to a path for recover.
All the best wishes,
Lilo
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 10:19 am:
Oh Sara, I'm sorry  You know what I've been through with Brave and I'm sure you already know this, but I have learned that if the hoof isn't growing it's not being weighted properly. It's possible the farrier put the wedge in on the chance that she'd weight it properly. There was a time that Brave had a wedge and went lame, they took out the wedge and while he was much better, he was still lame. Those tendons and ligaments are fragile things, it may take more than a few days. This same time period, he could not take ANY sole pressure whatsoever. The pads came off and he was much better.
Can you take her barefoot for a while? You mention boots, have you already done this? Put her in a sandy or very soft area for a while? The sand or shavings will help pressurize where needed. When she's moving better in the sand, lead her around and around in the sand so she gets movement. As she lands slightly heel first, take her to harder ground and see how she does.
You could post pictures so Dr. O can help with the trim if needed
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 10:21 am:
Lee, when I say the "heel angle is too high" I mean the heels are too high. When you look at her x-rays, the tip of the coffin bone is pointing down further than is normal. From what I've read, you would lower the heel to correct this. In her case, there isn't much horny material that can be cut off to lower the heel if I am understanding the farrier and vet. However, sometimes I have a difficult time understanding the point our vet is trying to make, and I'm not always sure our farrier is correct, although he is really trying to learn.
Diane, there is no change in her pulse at all; it is difficult to find, and isn't strong or rapid either one.
Lee, I agree about the rolled toes, but one of Libby's big problems is the lack of sole and horn growth, so there isn't much room to roll her toes.
She was doing a little better yesterday evening. I went out to check her again before I went to bed, but she, along with the other horses, was lying down sleeping. I'm headed out now to feed and see how she's doing in the a.m.
Yes, she's on bute. Vet said 3 gr.once a day, but I've split that up into two doses/day.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 12:18 pm:
Sara, I'm so sorry to hear of Libby's difficulty. Laminitis is such a challenge to manage. It sounds like you are doing all that you can.
My mare Suzy had been doing great with her feet, far better than she had done last winter. Like Libby, she ran really hard out in the pasture when the weather here turned cold and windy, and reinjured her hooves. Unlike Libby, she does have pulses and hot feet, so we are back to active laminitis management with her.
I don't have any advice to offer, I think that you probably know more than I do. But I certainly can commiserate and hope that both of you feel better soon.
A great big group hug from Suzy and me to you and Libby.
Jo Ann
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 1:12 pm:
Libby is more sore again today. I'm going back and re-read all the stuff on laminitis/founder and on sore feet and lower leg lameness too - for the "umpteenth" time. If she hasn't improved noticabley by the first of the week I'm going to get her an appointment down in Las Vegas at the clinic where I took Waseem. They have digital x-ray equipment and sonogram equipment (I think) and the vet there kind of specializes in hoof problems. It will be a place to start without taking her all the way to Alamo Pintada. I really dread that drive for her sake, and will put it off until I feel there is no alternative.
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Member:
cheryl
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 1:47 pm:
Sara the first thing that popped into my head when I read your last post was waiting might make it a lot harder on Libby. My suggestion - if your vet and farrier can't provide some relief for Libby immediately would be to call the clinic in Vegas - find out how to pad her the best way possible and get her down there so they can find out what's wrong. I would be concerned that the longer I waited the more damage would be done. If you stop and let her rest a couple or three times during the trip it might not be to hard on her.
Cheryl
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 2:25 pm:
Darn Sara, I hope you figure it out, it could be so many things. Usually bute doesn't help an abscess much, hoping it's as simple as that.... I've read so much about founder my head spins. Dr.O's articles are the best and sometimes you miss things when reading an article...I always do!
Banamine always made Hank feel better than bute in the acute stage of anything abscess, founder, ect. Was Libby on bute when the farrier hoof tested her from experience that can scew the results sometimes. It can also keep the DP and heat at bay so you don't realize it's actually there.
Good Luck and keep us updated Libby is part of our "family" now you know!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 2:41 pm:
Today is Saturday and I won't be able to contact the Las Vegas clinic until Monday a.m. as they are closed on the weekends. I didn't call before as I have been hoping we can resolve her problem without taking her down there. We have a vet 5 mins. away, and she's been there twice with this problem. I'm loosing my faith in him regarding Libby's current problem. My visit with him was frustrating; I had a difficult time getting direct answers about the foot.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 8:29 pm:
Your instincts are probably right, Sara. Like Cheryl said, the sooner the better, in case there is any chance of her getting worse. You know the routine - keep it slow and steady - and ignore the line up behind you. Don't look in the rear view mirror.....just pull over and slow down when you can to let them pass. Maybe you could put a sign on the back of your trailer - "Injured horse in transport". Good Luck - be thinking of you.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 - 8:33 pm:
Sara, this is left field advice but ... when Ellie had her foot go I used Thermoflex on her leg from the knee down.My vet said it didn't hurt and might help as it is blood flow that one wants to keep going ?? It just was one of those wild straws one grabs. Cannot wish you and Libby enough Luck!! Prayers on the Wind to you both!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2008 - 3:48 am:
Sara, I am not sure I know what you mean by "active" in your question to me above. Do you mean can a horse be foundering yet not find typical signs in the foot? The answer is yes but it makes accurate diagnosis difficult and uncertain.
Did the vet attempt to localize the lameness as described in Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse?
DrO
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2008 - 8:15 am:
Oh Sara, just started reading the post and am so sorryyou're having trouble with Libby she was doing so good and looked so happy in the pasture!
Hard decision to make to take her to another vet because of the traveling but it sounds as if you are going that way.
What good instinct that made you not breed her this year!
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2008 - 10:43 am:
Dr.O, no; he just assumed it was her foundered foot. She was a little better yesterday afternoon. But, I'm going to call the Las Vegas vet on Monday and see if they can get her in first part of the week.
I've been letting her go in and out of her stall into her pen which has very soft sand. I've also got standing wraps on all four legs. Do you think this is o.k. for her? I know you suggest keeping a horse in a deeply bedded stall, and hers is; but I thought maybe on the sand would be o.k. so she can get some sun. (I know winter is going to hit one of these days so am trying to get everyone out as much as possible while the weather holds.)
Jos, it was just one of those "little voices" that kept me concerned about it. I was so afraid the extra weight would endanger her life. My aim now is to breed her AI and do an embryo transplant, hopefully using Reba. I'll probably take them both down to Alamo Pintado when the time comes. I'm just hoping this is a temporary set back for Libby and she'll be able to make the trip down there when the time comes. There is a repro clinic up north, about 4 hrs. away, that I could use, but I prefer Alamo Pintado or Dr. Snow's clinic in the same area.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2008 - 2:52 pm:
Sara, the fact that I had just brought in sand for the arena, more than needed, was one of Elle's saving grace. My vet said it could not have been timed better. So many pieces to healing. Someday this site should have a book made of all we have gone thru and learned. What a tome it would be ......
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 11:31 pm:
I finally was able to get in touch with the vet at the clinic in Las Vegas. He's a vet for the NFR (National Finals Rodeo) whihc is currently going on so has been busier than usual. She has an appointment for a week from now. The farrier can't go until then, and he needs to be there as they look at the digital x-ray, adjust the foot, take more x-rays, etc. The vet could get a vet from down there to meet me at the clinic, but the farrier here is the one that will be continuing treatment, so I think it makes sense for him to be there and confer with the vet. We will keep her in soft pads, on soft footing, and on bute and gastrogard until then. She is doing a little better, but still is pretty sore. Vet felt that the recent arrival of very cold weather (from the 50's to the 20's) may have something to do with her lameness also. She obviously feels good otherwise; bright eyes, eating good, good attitude, etc. So, although I'm concerned about her, I don't feel it's an emergency, esp. since she is doing a little better.
Her vet from Alamo Pintado also called today. He was sent her x-rays by her vet here who was very concerned about her sesamoid bones in the leg with the tendon injuries. Dr. Rick (A.P. vet) said her sesamoids look exactly like they did on her last x-ray taken down there, so not to be concerned, which is very good news. He also knows L.V. vet very well and had good things to say about him and said he'd be happy to confer with him. So, that too is good.
Lonnie thinks we can take tie the first panel back so when I do take Libby to Las Vegas, she'll have room to travel backwards as Dr. O. suggested.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 12:43 am:
Oh boy, Sara, I'm going to be waiting to hear. This Christmas, may Santa grant your wishes.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 6:27 am:
Sara, glad to hear libby's feeling a little better.
Did they say how the colder temps could be affecting Libby? I found that interesting.
Good luck at the vets, praying it's nothing serious
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 9:41 am:
I really cannot judge Sara. The sand is fine as a surface for a foundering horse but increase activity is discouraged if there is rotation going on.
DrO
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 10:14 am:
Sara Sara Sara.. you are one busy lady and its the holidays as well. Are you still heading down to So.Cal this weekend? .. I hope Libby hangs in there for you / us..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 11:18 am:
Turn out on the sand is a "moot point" now as the temps. have DrOpped into the low teens at night with a high in the low 30's, it rained then snowed and everything including the sand is frozen and covered with ice. I'll be keeping her in her deeply bedded stall until she goes to the vet in Las Vegas.
I think the relation between the cold and her lameness is just that the cold makes injured joints stiffer? I didn't really ask. She's always worse in the a.m., then gets a little better as the day goes on.
I'm still planning on going to S.Cal, Ann. I have good horse help, and there isn't much I can do for Libby that they can't also do.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 11:31 am:
Some infrared lights in her box perhaps?The warmer the muscles and joints stay during winter the better the 'problem'horses did imo?
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 12:12 pm:
I didn't think of it (duh) but the stall next to her's has a stall heater in it; I should switch stalls for her. Guess I'll do that today.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 1:00 pm:
Hi Sara,
Have you ruled out an abscess? At my barn, rapid onset foot lameness at this time of year has almost invariably proven to be an abscess, in spite of a couple of panicky diagnoses (e.g., when my vet declared my competition horse's foot broken). It would be a nice problem to have at this stage.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 4:16 pm:
Sara, the warm muscle idea is why I used the thermoflex on Ellie guess I didn't say it right but it does help! and just to add fuel to the fire very very cold weather coming your way.It is here this weekend should reach you Tuesday and they are saying it is 5 to 6 days of COLD !
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 11:31 am:
Dr.O, as I understand it, Libby's lack of hoof growth is due mostly to not enough blood supply to her hoof as a result of her previous laminitis. I've read about using nitroglycerin patches on horses with founder. Our local vet doesn't feel they will do any good. What is your take on their use? I have several that were left over from those used on my mom and I was wondering if it would be worthwhile to apply them to Libby's foot.
We've added extra biotin to her supplements but if the blood supply isn't good, I'm not sure how much that will help.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 11:33 am:
Cindy, thanks for reminding me about the weather! I'll be driving home from San Diego in all that nice rain/snow and cold first of the week.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 3:08 pm:
It is pretty much agreed on by the experts that nitroglycerin is not helpful to increase blood flow. We have an article on improving the quality of the horn in the foot lameness topic.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 5:03 pm:
O.K., thanks Dr. O. I'll go back and read the lameness articles. Somewhere I read about nitroglycerin, but maybe it was quite awhile ago before it was disproven.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 6:34 pm:
Cindy, thanks for reminding me about the weather! I'll be driving home from San Diego in all that nice rain/snow and cold first of the week.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 6:59 pm:
LOL.. Sara I will be coming home from SoCal same time to cold / wet / foggy weather as well. .. BUT i get to finaly meet you in the flesh.. and maybe Jos?????
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 7:04 pm:
I hope I'm not making a fool of myself again, but these questions pop in my head when I read this stuff, and I remember my old farrier and vet had quite a disagreement about it.
When a horse founders doesn't the blood flow INCREASE, thus the bounding pulse, heat, and swollen laminae(from increased blood flow) actually causes the pain? I remember looking it up somewhere when the vet and farrier had their argument and it seemed they were both right I think? I know after Hank foundered his hoof (especially his toe grew like crazy, It wasn't very good hoof horn, but it did grow quickly?
I think I read that if the coffin bone sinks and puts pressure on the circumfrence (sp) artery that can slow hoof growth.
I always wondered who was right the vet or farrier.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 7:38 pm:
From what I've gathered it depends on the stage of the laminitis. However, I haven't had time today to go back and read the articles again, and you know how it is with my memory. Dr. Rick said something about the blood veins getting "pinched off" with swelling???
Been working on tile, faucets..all that fun stuff, and haven't done my reading yet. Will after dinner and think I'll print some of it so I can re-read and underline and maybe remember it better.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 11:38 pm:
Hi Sara, I am also reviewing laminitis management as we try and bring my mare's laminitis back under control. There are two articles from The Horse that caught my eye.
First thought: Is it possible that Libby may have developed a metabolic aspect to her founder? I know that it was originally a mechanical event, and I don't know Libby's age, but the timing is interesting. "Older horses and those starting to develop Cushing's typically have higher rises (in hormone levels), which can lead to unexplained episodes of laminitis in the fall," said Eleanor Kellon, VMD, co-owner of the Yahoo Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group. "This may occur for years before the horse develops the classical coat changes or tests positive at other times of the year. September 27 2008, Article # 12754.
Another article that explains current thinking about angles, blood flow, etc.. is "Inside the Laminitic Foot" July 01 2008, Article # 11359.
You may have to sign up to access these articles, but membership is free.
Also if you decide to go with boots, I am considering soft rides. They have an insert specifically designed for laminitis and were used on Barbaro when he first began to founder. Web site is soft-ride.com. Wonder if anyone else has tried these?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 12:37 am:
Jo-Ann, I have a pair of the Soft-ride boots for one of our stallions who had some foot problems due to incorrect trimming. I think the boots helped him a lot. I still put them on him when he travels. I've been considering a pair for Libby. The farrier was concerned that there wasn't enough height in the heel insert, however, as the material is very soft under the coffin area and more firm under the heel and frog area (in the orthotic made for laminitis) I'm thinking I'll order them for her anyway though espcially as I need to take her to Las Vegas middle of next week and I think they'd help keep her comfortable on the trip if nothing else.
I'd be very surprised if Libby had a metabolic disorder; she is fairly young and shows no symptoms. I've dealt with horses before who did have metabolic disorders so I'm aware of the problems related to insulin resistance and Cushings. I currently have one older mare on Pergolide actually. However, I guess I shouldn't rule anything out.
I subscribe to The Horse mag. and often read the website, but have been pretty busy lately and haven't been reading as much. I'll have to look for that article. Thanks.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 12:42 pm:
Sara, I just talked with my vet again this morning, and asked her about the soft rides. She said that they work well for some horses and not for others. She said that the horse's comfort is the best guide, if they are comfortable in them then go with that, if they act more sore then its not the right support for them. Interestingly, she said that the firm material under the heels sometime creates too much pressure and decreases the blood flow. This was also mentioned in The Horse article on laminitis.
She suggested getting some sand and filling industrial strength baggies with the sand, enough to create about a 3/4 inch to one inch thick layer, and tape that to her hooves. The sand can then redistribute to where its needed, and will shift when the horse shifts her weight so that pressure is not concentrated in one area.
So now, where to find "industrial strength" plastic bags?
What was your experience with the fit of the soft rides? I measured Suzy's feet and they seem to be in between size 5 and 6. She's at the end of her trimming cycle, but we are waiting for this acute inflammation to subside before we trim her again. I left a message with the folks at soft ride yesterday, but they haven't called me back yet.
I have a pair of Cavallo simple boots that I used last year when Suzy had a bad bout of laminitis (size 4) but we have made so much progress with remodeling her feet (a good thing!) that now they are too big for her. I guess I should put them in the new Tack Swap post.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 6:06 pm:
I just left very cold wet foggy weather to meet you in the flesh Ann![That is if I can follow Sara's directions as to where to meet her!]
Jos
PS I think from what I saw from Waseem on the trip the boots might be a comfort to Libby if only because they didn't seem to slide and her weird 'clog' might. Just a thought
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 12:49 am:
Jo Ann, the Soft Rides were a little big; I assumed it was because Waseem's feet were measured wrong.(I wasn't the one that measured them.) However, once he had shoes on they fit great. I think they helped him.
Libby was still pretty sore this morning even with the heel pad taken out of the boot she was wearing. I unwrapped her foot and padded her with two disposable diapers and styrofoam before I left for San Diego to see how she does that way. Lonnie will make sure she is bedded deeply and give her the bute and gastroguard while I am gone. I'll be home Sunday night so she should be o.k. until then. I'm ordering the soft rides for her and they should arrive first of the week.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 7:17 am:
Diane, we address the seeming contradiction of increase blood flow and low perfusion in the article Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Founder & Laminitis an Overview.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 10:33 am:
Lonnie said Libby is moving better and seems a lot less sore in the padding without the boot. I'll be home to check on her myself tonight.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 1:53 pm:
Keeping fingers crossed for Libby, Sara. Would be nice for you to come home to a comfortable horse!!!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 4:09 pm:
Thinking of you and Libby, Sara, and hoping for improvement and healing.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 6:23 pm:
Go Libby! Hoping for the best, Sara.
Lilo
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 11:06 am:
She seems a little more comfortable; actually quite a bit more just from what I can tell in her stall. I'll get her out and walk her down the barn aisle after breakfast.And will unwrap her and look at her foot again. ( The ground is covered with ice and snow so I'm not taking her outside.) I brought home Waseem's Soft-ride boots to see if they made her more comfortable. They may not fit her right, but I think I can tape them on so they do. I thought I'd try them before buying her a pair of her own as they are pricey.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 10:24 pm:
Sara, Its so good to hear that Libby is feeling better. I was able to make my too-large Simple boots fit by adding a soft pad insert and wrapping sheepskin around the inside of the tops.
One problem with my current boots: Suzy had more difficulty rising to her feet after she has been lying down because the boots slip along the floor of the stall in the deep bedding. Have you noticed that being a problem with the soft rides?
I am still debating whether or not to buy a pair. Today I left the boots off and Suzy seemed just as comfortable (if not more comfortable because she was more sure of her footing) just barefoot in deep bedding.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:53 am:
Libby is still pretty sore, although better. I've been trying to get her to Las Vegas to Dr. Lamb, where I took Waseem and where they have ultra sound and digital x-ray. Our weather has been so bad and the roads so ice, I've had to cancel twice. Today I'm going to attempt it. We had 10" of new snow last night, and they had 3" in Las Vegas, but the snow is stopping and the roads are just snowy, not icey. If I don't go now I won't be able to go until after the holidays. I've given her 2 gr. of bute and will wrap her legs with good support wraps and have bedded the trailer heavily. It would normally take 3 hrs., but I bet it takes 4 today. I'll let you know what the vet says about her when I get back.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 11:30 am:
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 12:33 pm:
Good luck and impatiently waiting for news!
Jos
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 1:07 pm:
Good luck Sara - drive safe.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 6:13 pm:
Hope it's nothing serious Sara, and your trip is uneventful!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 6:41 pm:
Praying for you to have a safe trip, and for good news too.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 8:06 pm:
Sara, hoping you have a safe trip and that Libby's problem can be diagnosed and treated.
Crossing my fingers for you and Libby,
Lilo
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 8:36 pm:
Fingers crossed here too for safe travels and encouraging news for you and Libby.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 9:56 pm:
I just walked in the door and am waiting my turn in the shower while having a glass of wine. A long trip, but uneventful, luckily. After the first 30 mi. the roads weren't bad.
The news is good (I think) Libby doesn't have an active case of laminitis and Dr. Lamb doesn't think she's had a reoccurance since her original severe episode. There has been no further rotation. Her problem is her lack of new foot growth and the toe of her sole is extremely painful, especially on the inside of it (is that medial side?) She was being treated as if she was having laminitis with her heel being raised. When looking at the position of her coffin bone in a regular x-ray you would think she needed her heel raised.
After taking several digital x-rays, Dr. Lamb tried various combinations of pads and boots and wound up putting an ultra boot on her with the wedging removed, then filling it with a really soft silicone impression type material that forms to the foot and hardens, but remains very cushey. After it set, he cut out the area under the toe. He also put some really soft stuff right at the toe under the silicone pad which lifts the sore area so it isn't getting any pressure put on it. She goes back on the 30th. The boot should stay on her until then and she remains stalled in a heavily bedded stall. She handled the trip fine and was very happy to get home again; I think she was afraid she was going to miss dinner and was overjoyed to see it waiting for her.
She was moving quite a bit better when I unloaded her, although still sore. She was feeling good enough that she pranced a little on the way from trailer to barn, so I feel progress has been made. I'll keep you posted. I'm ready for a second glass of wine and a shower. I stopped about an hour from home for a burger (first meal of the day!) and let Libby eat a little grass hay and rest while a ate. I think it's going to be an early night!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:05 pm:
That's great Sara I hope she continues to improve!
Enjoy your wine you deserve it!
What is an Ultra boot?
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Member:
shirl
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:22 pm:
Sara, Thank God. So glad Libby is okay, you made the trip with no problems, and you are having that second glass of wine. You deserve it.
Hugs to both of you,
Shirl
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:33 pm:
Sara, I am just totally in awe of you, your abilities, strength, "git 'er done" attitude and the fact that NOTHING gets in your way!! Been thinking that for a long time--you're such an amazing woman!
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:44 pm:
Yea! Glad the trip went well and that Libby is more comfortable. Enjoy your wine and rest.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:49 pm:
Shirley, it's a hard plastic boot that has wedges of different heights which can be attached to it, and also the inside has a built in frog support, which can be trimmed down or shortened with a sharp knife. The boot comes about a third of the way up the hoof, lower in the heel and higher in the toe. It is usually taped on, but I think can be glued on also. When I've seen it used, the vet or farrier usually adds padding, or a liner of some kind. I've also seen it used as a "bottom" to put over hoof bandaging. If you search on line you can probably find a picture of one.
Julie!! You're embarrassing me! You live in Idaho; aren't people up there the same way? I thought everyone in the west was "get-er-done." I always thought that just "Eastoners" were "wimpy." (OMG, I'm going to hear about that comment!)
Actually, I think if you have horses ( or children) you just do what you have to do regardless.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 10:53 pm:
Awwww,
I can just see her prancing in as if to say "Look at my fancy new shoes mom got me...check out the groovy toe bling"
Good Job Sara
All us cheerleaders on HA can breathe a sigh of relief that everythings good and your safely home.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 12:59 am:
Sara your amazing determination is only matched by Libby's! Here's a big round of applause to you both!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 7:14 am:
Sara, would it be possible to post the radiographs?
DrO
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 7:38 am:
Sara, I'm very glad the driving was uneventful and that the docs appear to have figured out a solution. Will keep my fingers crossed that Libby continues to improve with her new shoes.
oh...and about that comment about the Easterners being wimpy...(yes, I know, I now live in the Midwest, but I grew up around Boston)...you're in trouble now!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 9:30 am:
Glad you are back home and safe.
Hmm....I grew up west of the Mississippi, and now live east of it...does that make me a wimpy Eastener?? Let's see...27 years west of it, and now 21 years east...o.k., time to move west, lol!!!
Fran, I think you are technically an Easterner, isn't that everyone East of the big river??
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 10:29 am:
Glad you are on course.. Come on Libby, lets make life easier now .. please...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 10:45 am:
Dr. O, I meant to get her x-rays on a disk and got to talking about arena footing and forgot to ask. I'll call them and see if they can send them as an email attachment; I think they can.
I forgot to add that her heel is lifted a tiny bit; just two degrees. If it is lifted any more the space between the first joint above the coffin bone is too open and puts stress on the tendons. This could have been adding to her soreness.
Libby was VERY hungry this a.m. Lately she has been standing at the back of her stall and comes over to eat after the hay is put down. This morning she was waiting at her feed door, bobbing her head and telling me to hurry up with the food. I take that as a good sign!
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New Member:
boots
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 11:38 am:
Useful info from eastern OCD horse owner: If you were not born EAST of the Hudson River, you will NEVER be an easterner! It's a cultural thing, anymore than I (who have been in W Va since 1965) will ever be considered a West Virginian. Also a cultural thing, Ya'll.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 12:07 pm:
Yup, boots is right. Easterners are people from ME, NH, VT, MA, NY...basically the Eastern seaboard. Angie, relocated as we both are, I think we'd now be called relocated OCD, neurotic, MIDWEST horse owners...I think we've both been in MI long enough to qualify
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 12:49 pm:
Good news on Libby, Sara, though I wish for your sake that she would mend uneventfully from here on out.
I'm not just an easterner but a northeasterner, and I guess I think I'm tough enough so far.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 2:08 pm:
 O.K., got it!
All I know for sure is I am not a True Blue Yooper being I wasn't born here, aye.
AH, the lessons I learn on here...
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 3:24 pm:
Sara,
I am glad Libby is feeling better isn't it wonderful how quickly they get better when the real problem is taken care of properly.
All,
I am definitely an easterner ( Northeasterner also) born in New York City, New York, raised on Long Island and spent most of my adult life in New Jersey. The furthest west I've lived ( barring vacations) is in Philadelphia, PA.
I am more OCD now with less horses, only because I have more time to worry about the two ( racehorses) I have left. I still have 4 more turnouts but they do not seem to worry me as much and they are much better when I leave them alone. My best friend keeps telling me to quit worrying, but its like part of my personality. The bad part about it is I am usually right. The difference is now with HA I can rule out problems a lot more quickly, so that I know what it is I am looking at when I do have a real one at at least have some semblance of knowledge to take care of it ( like the choke episode the other night)
Anyway, I think worry is part of being a horseowner, if we didn't do it I'll bet we would all be very bored.
Rachelle
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 4:35 pm:
So glad Libby is doing better!
And I do agree with Julie that you have an amazing ability to 'get things done' and all of that always without moaning!![Altough from time to time with the help of a Red Bull and after a glass of wine!]
My next visit to France will bring champagne for YOU instead of Libby!
Jos
PS She can have a sip if she wants though
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 4:38 pm:
Sara - not being laminitic is good news, I believe. And Libby clamoring for her breakfast is also good news!
Hope the good news will continue,
Lilo
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 9:11 pm:
Dr.O, I called the clinic and they said they'd send me the x-rays as an attachment. As soon as they arrive, I'll post them.
One other good thing I forgot to mention, is that the remaining sole and hoof is very healthy and alive looking. Libby goes back on the 30th.
Vet did say sand is excellent for laminitic horses. However, our sand is now frozen solid and covered with snow, so we just have her bedded really deeply with shavings in her stall.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 12:52 am:
Well, Sara....just send Libby EAST. I live here in the EAST, in the NJ Pine Barrens....got all the baby fine white sand she needs! AND we got the "Jersey Devil". MmmwuhHAHAHAHA! Ahem. So there.
I'm truly relieved to hear the news on Libby. Christmas will be a bit brighter. Thanks for keeping us informed.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 10:55 am:
Lee, I know all about the Pine Parrens. I'll have you know I once canoed down the Toms River. Also, our youngest son lives on Long-guyland, and we have a business in Riverhead. You do have nice white sand. Bet it's frozen about now,too. Looks like this storm is hitting you around now.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 2:21 pm:
I volunteer to stay at White Dunes for a while with Libby!
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 2:59 pm:
Not a bad idea, Jos! I could pack up the motor home and trailer and bring some portable panels for a pen. Wonder what the temps are down there right now?
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 5:15 pm:
With a good glass of wine or a margarita for me and some nice hay and carrots for Libby I bet we would be fine!
I bet YOU would stay to! Perhaps even Lonnie could ride his bike?
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 5:43 pm:
Sign me up if the weathers decent..Hanks hooves like sand as well as snow and he can be our entertainment!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 20, 2008 - 9:06 pm:
Wonderful Diane! And you will know what to do with snakes and scorpions! Now I feel completely safe
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 3:57 pm:
Finally, here are pictures the vet took at her first visit on Dec. 18th. You can see the "before" xray,which is at the bottom left, and the "after" where Dr. Lamb had added an injectable padding and a wedge. He first made a pad from the injectable material, took it off and trimmed out the front part of the sole on the pad, then fitted the pad to her foot. Then the plastic wedge and plastic boot were added. The boot was only vet wrapped and taped on so we could adjust the height of the pad if necessary. She would up with about a 3 degree heel wedge.
The foot with the nailed on shoe is the foot on the leg with the tendon injury.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 4:10 pm:
Libby has very little sole, as you can see. However, her foot was finally able to be pared down to where there is nothing but healthy tissue, so the vet feels it will grow.
I took Libby back to Dr. Lamb on the 30th of January, and her pad and boot were removed, she was checked and xrayed. My farrier met me down there and he and the vet were able to trim her heel down just a hair more, then remade the padding and put her in a glue on boot which should stay on for 5 or 6 weeks. Her palmer angle is a little closer to where it should be now; I think Dr. Lamb said he was able to improve it by another degree, but I'm sorry I don't remember for sure. The boot, wedge and padding can be removed if she gets sore and the pad and wedging adjusted if we feel it needs to be.
When she arrived at the vet's, even after a 3+hr trailer ride, she was walking pretty good. There is some unevenness in her gait, which in part, I think, is due to the fact that her left and right front shoes are now not at the same height. She wasn't sore at all when the hoof tester was used! We are handwalking her again for 10 mins. twice a day. I think she could be turned out in her pen, but there is just too much ice to risk it right now. She is getting pretty bouncy when being hand walked, so I know she's feeling much better. She is also off bute now.
The farrier is coming first of the week to redo her other shoe and to trim her hinds. We wanted to give her a chance to get used to the new pad and boot before asking her to stand on it while her other front foot was worked on.
btw, you can see in the xrays how her "good" foot on the injured leg was affected by not having weight on it for so long. It is much more narrow than her original foot. She is shod with a shoe that gives a lot of rim support and heel width in hopes her foot will eventually expand.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 4:24 pm:
UGGHH Sara no wonder the poor dear was so sore, I can't make heads or tails out of x-rays, but that looks like one miserable hoof, I am very glad to hear she is doing better!!!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 5:40 pm:
Yeah, I know Diane. Know you can see why I was concerned about her foundered foot and frustrated with the local vet who just kept talking about her other leg (tendon one.) I felt her foot was a much more immediate concern. Her situation was very similar to Barbaros' and he is always fresh in my mind.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 7:30 pm:
Sara,
refresh my memory: The heel cannot be lowered more to get the coffin bone any more level because
A. She has hardly any hoof/heel to work with?
B. The tendons were destroyed in that leg?
It is amazing that she can even walk at all! I don't even know if I could stomach to continue caring for one of my horses if s/he was in that condition, but I know she's come so far, and I know you are going by the look in her eyes to help you decide how much to do.
You are both fighters, bravo!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 7:35 pm:
OOPS, I think you answered that question waaay up above, so never mind. I thought is was in an old post.
Sorry!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 2, 2009 - 8:15 pm:
I need to get copies sent to me of the xrays taken at her Jan. 30th visit so you can see how she is now. There is some improvement, and the hope is she will continue to improve. As I said, she is off bute and doesn't seem to be in pain anymore. She is uneven when she walks, and limps some, but it seems to be from the uneven height now in her two front hooves, which should be fixed first of the week. She was off bute when she was hoof tested and showed no reaction. Initially, at her first visit to the clinic in L.V., she was very sore when the testers were used.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 10:06 am:
Sara, one change I don't like, and am uncertain why it was done, is all the "toe" added out in front of the coffin bone. Though I do see a slight rocker to help I think less material out front would help Libby's break over. Does the veterinarian explain this?
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 10:59 am:
I think he was trying to pad the front of her foot as that was where she was especially tender, but I'm not sure. After the xray was taken, he did remove some of it. I think that when he put the boot on, she may have pushed some of the padding forward. On her last visit, he removed all the padding in the front. It just goes under her heels and around under the hoof wall where it is very thin. It is removed totally under her sole. The effect is to lift the sole up a little and to put pressure on the heel and under the hoof wall. She still is moving much, much better than she was, even off the bute.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
I totally agree with Dr. O. When I saw how much hoof was in front of the break over, I was puzzled. Wish vets would put a wire taped to the hoof wall when they radiograph so people like me who aren't schooled in reading them could get a better "picture".
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 1:21 pm:
In "real life" Julie, I don't think there is much hoof in front of the breakover. Due to the founder, her hoof is trimmed back to just the sole and under structures of the hoof; there isn't nay extra hoof wall there at all. This is one of her problems; there is very little actual hoof to work with. What you are seeing in the top two pictures is the hard plastic boot and the padding the vet put in to protect her foot.(If we are talking about the same thing? I'm not sure we are.)
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 1:50 pm:
Thanks Sara, that explains it. What troopers you both are!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 2:20 pm:
Libby is just an extraordinary horse...at least in my opinion. She has the personality, conformation, etc. to be "tops" and was going to be our primary show horse. It still makes me sad to think about it. Now my hope is to still be able to have a foal from her. Her foot is a relatively minor set-back, but if it wasn't treated and didn't improve, it would be the "minor set-back" that could be her end.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 3:59 pm:
I love her too! and I havent even met her
I will never forget that photo of her beautiful face and soulful eye!
Leslie
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 5:25 pm:
Sara - Just want to send good wishes to you and to Libby. I just loved the photo you posted of her face and her eye.
All the best,
Lilo
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 3, 2009 - 8:03 pm:
So happy to hear that beautiful Libby is doing better and hope that you will see steady improvement.
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