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  Discussion on Narcolepsy or just resting??
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New Member:
santana

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 - 6:07 am:

I have an 19 month old British Sports Horse, whom has been seen to 'collapse'. There's only been twice when I know he wasn't been silly. Once on Christmas Day, where he was tied up outside his stable being groomed to go to bed, I was picking out his front foot and he was stood quietly with his neck relaxed and he just DrOpped on the front to his knees, I was pushing against him to stop him toppling over tied up, and sudden up he sprung a little dazed but quickly calmed and continued as normal. Then Friday just gone the girl next door was mucking out her stable when she heard a loud bang (sounding like a bucket being broken - turning out to be his hay bar) turned round to see him stumble back to his feet.

(He has been on box rest since beginning of December)

Full blood profile returned normal. He is due at the veterinary centre for heart monitoring next Monday if I cannot find a trigger.

I tried to repeat everything I did on Christmas Day last night, I brought him in late to make sure the yard would be quiet (there's 50 horses so generally very busy!), tied him up and started grooming. As I was running the brush over his haunches his neck DrOoped slightly into a really relaxed position, then his eyes started shutting (going sleepy), then he went very unstable, his shoulder muscle in the front was quivering, front legs shaking slightly, back end wobbling, and I thought he was going, but he snapped out of it.

Is this normal or is this a sign that it is Narcolepsy?

He suffered a severe injury in July this year, where he got his hind right over electric rope, and it cut right into the hock joint completely severing the Extensor Tendon, this hasn't fully recovered, flared up again at the beginning of December, which is why he was back on box rest, and then went shoulder lame on his front right. The hock is still thick with scar tissue and still swells, he finds it difficult to lift the leg for his hoof to be picked out, so its certainly no where near 100%. Needless to say I initially thought the 'collapses' were due to the lameness, but when the vets took the bloods they put him through quite a series of thorough tests of balance and co-ordination, and he surprised me with how sturdy he truly was!

Sorry its such a long post! The vets is an hour in the box, and what I need to establish is if I know it is narcolepsy I then need not travel him, they will bring a monitor and fit it whilst I trigger his reaction, which will save taking him up, he doesn't travel at all well and wont box and thats even after he has been injected with sedative. Think he's had quite enough this year, and want to minimise further stress (before all this he had an allergic reaction to penicillin following castration and had to have steroids and anti-colic!!!).

Anybody have any thoughts / ideas?
Member:
canter

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 - 7:03 am:

Hello Clare,
DrO will have better info for you, but your description of your horse very much reminds me of a horse I knew who was narcoleptic: He would relax, neck would lower, eyes would start to close and his legs would then start to give out. We got pretty good at watching for the signs and then would give him a light slap or poke on the shoulder and sharply say his name and he would snap out of it and be fine. With this horse, it happened regularly under three circumstances: when he hung his head out of his stall to watch things going on in the barn aisle, when he was tied for grooming and when his rider stopped riding to chat with another rider in the ring.

If you haven't read over the article on narcolepsy, take a look at that for further info.
New Member:
santana

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 - 8:58 am:

Thank you for your quick response!

That's helpful to know, thanks.

I had previously thought Narcolepsy would always cause the sufferer to fall completely, which is why I was wondering with what happened last night, but with research today I've learnt otherwise. I just need to establish it all in my mind before I speak to his vet again. The funny thing is he may have done this a few times before and I've just put it down to him being a baby!

Tied up grooming seems to be one trigger, I've groomed him endlessly loose in his stable though without it happening. The vet suggested I start a diary to try and recognise triggers, I'm hoping there's not too many more!

Is it common for this to happen when ridden? Will he be classed unridable? (if the leg recovers.....)

The other thing I am now wondering is, is this going to worsen with age? Not as a developing condition but as he develops and matures he will not be as 'into everything' like he is now, will this then cause more frequent occurrences as he is less stimulated?

I'm literally full of questions now!...

I am starting to wonder if this is why he keeps mysteriously going lame if he's falling over in the stable / field. The shoulder lameness in the front right is almost unexplainable, no heat, swelling, knots etc but had almost resigned myself to it being 'growing pains'.
Member:
erika

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 - 1:55 pm:

Clare, do you see him lie down to sleep ever? Or does he just fall into sleep and wake upon landing?

Maybe he's sleep deprived and if he was recently injured it's possible that pain prevents him from lying down to rest?

Just a thought. Sounds rather scary to have a big horse just fall like that.
Erika
Member:
klowe

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 - 3:02 pm:

Hi Clare- I just wanted to mention that I have a 22 y.o. Morgan-Quarterhorse cross whom I have seen do that, but only once. He is the dominant of my 2 horses, also has DJD of the knee, and he appears to lie down much less frequently that the other guy. At 1st I thought it was due to his knee, but the more I observe, the more I think that perhaps it also has to do with dominance. He rolls in the dust as often as the other boy, he just doesn't seem to lie down to sleep as much, although he just stands quietly nearby when his buddy is asleep.

Anyhow, one day I just happened to be watching them out the window. They had finished their hay and were both standing in the sun dozing, when suddenly Cody's knees started to buckle and he almost fell. I would swear, if horses can look embarassed, this one did! He looked around as if to see if anyone had noticed, and then immediately began to herd the other horse around the yard. It was actually quite funny, although obviously if I thought it was a symptom of some disease, it wouldn't be amusing at all...

Hope you figure out what's going on with your boy, and that it's not anything serious.

Kathy
New Member:
santana

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 - 4:57 pm:

Hi Erika & Kathy, thanks for the responses.

Yes he often curls up in the field and the stable, and frequently out flat in the stable fast alseep, the vet also mentioned a desired not to lay down due to bullying / pain causing a form of narcolepsy, but simply due to lack of sleep.

He is in every night at the minute (when not on box rest), as he was on box rest coming into winter, and went out mid October so didn't get a good enough winter coat, and he was in again at the beginning of December and has spent less than a week out since. When he is out his field companion is without doubt the dominant one, but they both play, lay down, and graze together.

I have bought a CCTV camera (just awaiting delvery) and am going to set it up in his box to try and catch exactly what he's doing. I see him lay down, but can't say its the amount he should as I can't watch him 24/7. The camera has night vision so at least this way I can be 100% positive as to whats going on.

You can probably guess I am reluctant to accept the diagnosis unless I am 100% positive, due to his age / insurance / etc.

A few people at the yard have mentioned they have had experience of horses with narcolepsy and they have been fine with management, which I guess is my main concern, and making sure I can manage it effectively if that's what it is! I bought him with a decision in my mind that this one was to stay with me for life, so undesirable issues to others are un-important to me, he's here to stay.

Gosh, I'm still in shock, I thought the lameness was causing it, but the vets demonstrated just how strong, co-ordinated and balanced he is with the tests they did. And I struggle to see anything being wrong as he's happy and healthy, good shine on his coat, bright, alert, cheeky, but I am starting to accept that despite being a baby the collapsing maybe isn't normal. Guess many people on here have already been through the diagnosis process and felt the same. Just still feel shocked and puzzled at the idea there's anything wrong with him.
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009 - 7:19 am:

Clare,
I can't speak specifically to your horse, but the horse I mentioned above was rideable, despite being narcoleptic. The person in the saddle just had to be very aware of the possibility that when not moving, the horse could fall asleep. Once we knew this horse was narcoleptic, we all kept an eye on him to prevent him from falling and possibly hurt himself. I don't ever remember him ever falling out in his pasture...for whatever reason, it only seemed to happen in the barn/arena. He was an older horse when I first knew him and in the 6 or so years I was around him, the narcolepsy never got worse. It was quite manageable. So, if your horse is indeed narcoleptic, it may very well explain why he is sore, but once that heals up, it may not mean that it's the end of his career.

You vet's idea to keep a journal is a very good idea and once you recognize a pattern, you may be able to head off episodes and more injury.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009 - 9:06 am:

Hello Clare,
As discussed in detail in the article, sleepiness in response to pleasurable stimuli is the hallmark of narcolepsy. The other recently debated problem that presents this way is chronic sleepiness because of lack of regular sleep. The lack of regular sleep is attributed to an unwillingness to lie down which seems to ruled out the problem here. For more on prognosis and treatment on narcolepsy you should review the article.
DrO
New Member:
santana

Posted on Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 - 4:19 pm:

Thank you everyone, and thank you Dr O, I found the article very helpful.

The vets are pretty sure that he has narcolepsy, but that means I now have more questions....

Does this affect horses when travelling?

How does everyone else prevent injuries? My vet recommended bandaging his legs in his stable?

He went back out for the first time today, but he is now lame on the other front leg?!?! His 'neighbough' but one reported she heard a massive bang yesterday morning and turned round to see him stumble to his feet, and limp round the stable. She had thought he'd got up and banged the stable wall on the way up, but seeing him come straight off box rest lame on the other leg, I'm guessing not!!!

Is he better turned out? Only problem is at present night time temperatures are -4.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 12, 2009 - 8:15 am:

No I have not known any narcoleptic horses that had trouble falling while traveling nor reports of such problems. Then again I know non-narcleptic horses that have fallen...

The decision to turn out would be decided on dozens of factors we don't have available but if you feel the horse is hurting himself stabled and you have a suitable safe place to turn out to, it seems a logical experiment. Short of protecting the areas that are hurt when he falls or softening the surfaces he falls against I cannot think of other ways to prevent such injuries.
DrO
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