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Discussion on Horrible wound on leg VERY GRAFIC
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New Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 1:33 pm:
First off, I am so happy that I found this site. I was searching the internet looking for help regarding this wound. I hope I don't ramble, just want to give you a little history on this mare.
I have lived next door to her owner for 10 yrs or so. I finally started feeding her about 4 yrs ago. We live in a very cold winter area, and she was getting fed about 1 time a week.
Smoke is about 20. She while in this kids care had many deep wounds. She would be gone for a few days and come back with some type of wound. It would never get cared for. It was terrible.
After two bouts of Pigeon fever this last summer, I beg him to sell her to me. Now this is important for later. She is not lame, runs bucks, farts when she see me coming.
Wednesday night, I got a call from our renter. She said that Smoke was cut real bad. This was about 9:30 pm. We ran out and sure enough she was bleeding very bad at the knee. I cleaned it up and due to the torn skin wrapped it up.
Thursday morning (23* deg) I went out and noticed the huge thick wrap was soaked with blood and puss. I took it off, realized I had a problem on my hands and called the vet. They were busy till 4. I once again cleaned it and wrapped it back up.
At 4 when I went out to see her and get ready for the vet, I could not be more shocked by the condition of this wound. It was huge, nasty and dripping puss. I had never in my life seen anything so infected within 15 hours.
When the vet saw it, he was more shocked than I was. He said he had NEVER seen anything like it.
I didn't think to take pictures at this point.
The vet cleaned it up and said that he felt that the bad this, is this area had been wounded before. From the looks of it, it had not be cared for at all. I explained to him, that happened many times. I was not allowed in the pasture with this horse...because I had turned him in along with all the neighbors several times for the lack of care.
He is what the vet said and felt the problem was. The inside of the leg right above the hoof, had what he thought a lot of proud flesh. There is a split about 3" clear to the bone. But it looks old. He thinks that due to this old injury it took almost nothing for her to break this whole area open.
He said that he felt she would need put down. But we would give it a week. So he gave her a shot of penicillin and put Fura zone on pads, then wrapped her in a pressure wrap. I was to change the wrap every other day. She is also on Bute and daily dose of Uniprim.
So on Saturday I did a change. So now I have started the pictures. This is right after taking the wrap off
After finding your site, I cleaned it just like the doctor said. Washing it with surgical scrub (only thing I could find in our area) Then pressure rinsed out. Then of course packed it as the vet had done.
Here is the wound after cleaned and sprayed with cold water for 2-3 minutes
We are in VERY freezing temps now. Low 20's during the day. Which of course is good for the wound. But nasty for spraying a poor horse with.
I read it should be done every day. So here are my questions and concerns. Please email me if you need anything else explained.
The vet should he thought there was no hope for the skin to grow back. That by the end of this week, I would need to put her down! I don't want to believe that. I have been reading anything I can get my hands on.
1. I read that the Fura zone with cause proud flesh more than other products. IS that true? What else could I try?
2. I can't find the casting wrap that the vet uses anywhere locally. Do you think she should still be in it? Or could I use like fleece to get a bulking wrap on it?
3. I have her in a stall and small run, but she is really getting upset to not be around her crew. She is walking very fast along the fence the minute she can't see them. I read where she needs quiet more than anything. I can't calm her down.
4. Good news is she is putting what looks like full weigh on the leg. So I am thinking that this accident as bad as it looks did not major damage, the damage causing all the problem is improper from the other owner.
5. What do you think her chances are? Will she be able to be ridden lightly?
Thank you so very much
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New Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 1:38 pm:
I took my pictures and put them into 640x480. But they still wouldn't go. Can anyone help me with this?
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New Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:00 pm:
Checking to see if I have this figured out for pic's<img>
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New Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:14 pm:
Well I figured out a way. Probably backwards. But hey it works. Ok, here is the leg just out of the bandage from the vet. So we are 2 1/2 day from /albums/v328/Tamara1960/2jan17-1.jpg" border="0,Smoke 1/17/2009}</a>
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New Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:15 pm:
Bandage removed<img>
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:16 pm:
This is the side with all the major concern.
<img>
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:17 pm:
This is cleaned
<img>
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:18 pm:
Ok, so sorry for all the post. Here is the nasty side that I am so concerned about once cleaned
<a href="https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/?action=view¤t=cleaned217th.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/cleaned217th.jpg" border="0" alt="smoke 1/17/2009"></a>
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 2:50 pm:
Tamara,
I clicked on the first ,<img> and got taken to a photobucket page with about 5 photos of Smoke 1/17.
Is the puffy, proud-fleshy-looking bulge the wound itself? It looks clean . . . not bloody or pussy, so you must be doing well with the hosing and medicating and cleaning.
I don't know what Dr. O. will tell you, but if the mare seems to be moving okay, i.e., putting weight on the leg and not lame, then keep on doing what you are doing. I know that I used a kind gel that was supposed to help jumpstart the growth of skin over a wound to one of my mares. I think it was called EMT Gel. It may or may not be a help to you. It seems that the proud flesh is going to have to be cut off. How to get it to heal, though, I don't know. If the mare is receiving good nutrition then her body may be able to handle the wound and heal much on its own. From past experience, as cold as it is for you (thank goodness it isn't -35) I'd keep hosing and wrapping if there is any open part of the wound susceptible to infection.
I really don't know what to tell you, but I know how it feels to be frantic when an animal gets hurt and we don't know what to do, so I don't want you to feel alone. There will be lots of support for you on this board of horse-loving folks. Take heart and read some of the other posts on Long Term Deep Wound Care and First Aid. You will be encouraged.
Holly in Kansas
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 4:51 pm:
Tamara, Holly is right cold hosing works miracles by itself.Once on here there as a poor mare that had fallen out of her trailer and been dragged.She had deep ugly wounds all over! But today she is healed and being ridden! Don't forget honey is a wonderful substance to use on wounds.It is now being used in human care.I wish you all the best and am sure you will gets tons of ideas!
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 5:11 pm:
Well, I'm certainly no expert on wound care, and I'm not sure I'm seeing the right images, but I think if this mare is not lame, she's a long ways from being put down. Dr. O will be weighing in I hope, although he may not be able to access the images if he's away from his own computer. There are members who will help you get the pictures on here with your posts (more computer savvy than I!) That will be really helpful to him to advise and follow up as the healing progresses. I agree with Holly, you must be doing something right. I think there is a lot of proud flesh and that will need cutting off, but that's not as horrific as it sounds! Welcome to the board! You certainly sound like another caring horse person and I know you'll find lots of help and support here. Julie
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 5:13 pm:
And what a cute baby in your profile--is he a Shetland? You post pictures in the discussion the same way you posted your profile picture. And I see you're in the Northwest--not so many of us here!
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 5:39 pm:
First of all Thank you for taking care of a mare in need that you had no responsibility for! What an angel. As to the wound care for her if you follow the wound care article on this site you can not go wrong. Many injuries more serious than this one have been posted on by other members and Dr O's advice has always been spot on. Keeping the wound open to air near a joint may be beneficial by promoting drainage and preventing complications should infection set in. I agree with the others that there is alot of proud flesh but I think you are a doing a great job so far. Do you know how to find the wound care articles?
Good luck and keep us posted. You have come to the right place!
v/r
Corinne
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 5:44 pm:
Hi Tamara, I just wanted to give you a word of encouragement. Almost a year ago we had a young gelding get tangled up with a wheel line (a type of irrigation line) He badly cut up both front legs; from the knee down on one leg and from just below his shoulder to the knee on the other leg. When I saw his injuries I really doubted we could save him. His wounds were cleansed and he was stitched up by one of the vets in town. On the one leg the muscle as well as the skin had to be stiched. About 2 weeks after he was first treated, he popped open much of the suturing on the worst leg. It was impossible to get sutures to hold, so we just cold hosed his leg and tried to keep it clean. We also put him on a course of antibiotics because he had gotten some debree in his wound.
This guys wounds did heal over, although it took a long time and left a lot of scar tissue. Also, when he walked, he dragged his front toes. Now, a year later, although there are scars, they aren't nearly as bad as I had thought they would be and he is moving totally normally.
Also, a friend of mine had a gelding who managed to impale himself with the handle of her manure fork. (Don't ever leave the fork while you dump the wheel barrow.) This was another case where to look at the wound you wouldn't beleive the horse could have been save. The wound went from the inside of his "groin" area out to the outside of the leg. Two years later she is doing endurance on him again.
So, don't give up on your mare. With good care and without seeing her wounds in person, I'll bet she recovers. In the past when she got hurt it sounds like she wasn't getting fed right. Good nutrition will help her a lot.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 5:50 pm:
Welcome, Tamara. I have nothing to add to the good advice above. Just want to wish you the best of luck with this horse.
Lilo
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 8:46 pm:
Looks like you are taking good care of her,, I have seen worse wounds then this and with good care heal up nicely too.. Depending how close to bone and possible bone infection would be my only worry ..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 8:59 pm:
Thank you everyone for the words. I am so praying that she will heal. I love her so much, and to finally own her and have this happen...is breaking my heart. I had just ordered a new bit for her. The kid would never tell me what he rode her in. But what I had, she really didn't like. Her new bit came on Friday.
I put new picture on of the cleaning today. I think the side with the opening to the bone, looks more closed.
I am hoping the vet will come on and tell me their opinion. I purchase herb's to add to her food today. So I will start on that tomorrow.
I didn't have the same material the vet used for support. I can't find it any where around here.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 10:04 pm:
Even with being around horses for 40 yrs. I have never seen one really hurt. So to me this look terrible.
You are all giving me a hope that I wasn't sure I should have.
Thank you
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 10:34 pm:
We've all been there, Tamara. No matter how long you've had horses, there will always be one that just "dumbfounds" you. Either it gets hurt worse than you've ever seen, or sick with some weird thing you've never heard of, or does something so stupid you just can't believe a horse could do such a thing.
I've been around horses for over 60 years, have breed and raised Arabians for over 20 years, and still am totally amazed by some of the stuff they do to themselves!
Hang in there! I wish you and your mare the best.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 9:41 am:
Welcome Tamara,
Concerning the problem with posting images and looking at the linked-to images above I believe the file sizes are too large for posting even though the physical size of the displayed image is about right. Note that the display size and file size, though somewhat related, are not equivalent. For more on this and how to get the right file size see Help & Information on Using This Site » Uploading Images and Files Into a Posting.
Before I answer your questions about the wound I would like to put in a word about keeping your veterinarian in the loop. You are going to need his help. Even with the photos available we cannot diagnose and treat your horse. This must be done by someone who can examine the horse. We can help you with questions about treatment in general but any changes in your plans to care for this wound should be discussed with your veterinarian first. Now taking your questions in order:
1) It is not the nitrofurazone that increases the rate of proud flesh formation it is the carrier found in the ointment: propylene glycol. The spray is a good choice for treating wounds. You will find other recommendations in the article.
2) There are a number of products you could use for bandaging wounds like yours but it would be hard to beat 4 inch Vet Wrap: the colored elastic tape that sticks to itself and not the horse.
3) See the article Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Stall Resting Horses for help with this.
4) The chances of getting the wound healed are good with good care, though it will be a bit of a long hard road. I cannot assess the prognosis for soundness however. I am mainly concerned about damage to the fetlock joint. Only time will tell if the joint might develop arthritis.
DrO
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 11:59 am:
Tamara,
After I looked at the pictures, this injury looks strangely similar to a horse I had about 16 years ago.
At the time I was trying to get over the loss of one of my horses in a barn fire, and I needed something to keep my mind occupied. To this day, I do not know what possessed me to walk into the barn this horse was in because it was not one of the barns I normally visited. But in I walked anyway.
Here is this horse that was the image of the horse I had just lost standing with a bandage on his left front leg. The leg was huge three times the size of a normal leg. I asked around and found out who the owner was, in order to try and find out what happened and if I could take the horse on as a project.
The information I found out was that the horse had been racing at the Pocono's in Pennsylvania, had hit his knee and the knee got infected. The horse was being leased and while the people that leased him did treat the infection, they did not treat it long enough ( or with the right antibiotics) to completely clear up the infection. As a result the infection traveled down his leg and finally burst through the back of his leg as an abcess in the tendon area. The lady that owned him got a phone call from the state vet, that if she did not come and pick him up they would be euthanizing him within 24 hours. She went and got him and that how he wound up where I found him.
His leg and your mares leg looked very much alike. He never took a lame step. I took over his care. I kept him turned out all the time, I kept him on TMZ pills (long term) and I cleaned and redid up his leg every day. Each day I would see a gradual improvement and I could see where the skin was trying to close around the entire opening. What appeared to be proud flesh slowly closed over the wound, sort of knitted it back together again. I did not have to have any of the proud flesh removed and this horse eventually made it back to the races for a few starts. The leg never bothered him and when it finally healed the leg looked almost normal. There was only a slightly pink line across the back of the tendon.
When I retired him he became a riding horse and then became part of the Rutgers University Campus equine patrol unit.
A few weeks ago, I answered an ad that was posted in the Paddock at Freehold Raceway about an exercise study one of their Doctoral candidates was conducting and they needed mares between 5-8 years old. I happened to ask the young lady if she knew Awesome Force( Augie)and she said he was still there and she thought he was still on active duty. That made me very happy. (He is now 20 years old)
So do not lose hope, keep up the good work and remember even when things look really, really bad, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Rachelle
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 6:16 pm:
I am no longer a large animal vet, having left that part of the profession 20 years ago to do only small animal. However I would like to offer some encouragement as well. I have seen many, many horrific wounds heal beautifully. The body is designed to heal itself in a miraculous way. I have seen this in all species of mammals. I second Dr. O's concern for the health of the joint. An infected joint (or tendon sheath) is potentially much more devastating than soft tissue injuries. Hang in there, keep up the hyDrOtherapy (cold water hosing). I know it is uncomfortable for the horse but the cold may help reduce inflammation as well. And definitely keep your vet involved in every stage of this care. In the long run you will probably spend less money and have a lot less heartache if you have a professional guiding you.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 7:28 pm:
A friend talked me into having her vet out. Since the one I had out never called me back, I went a head and called my friend's.
I am happy that I did. He had a totally different opinion of the condition. Yes it is nasty and yes there will be a lot of healing time.
I have been trying very hard to care for the wound. It looks better every day. Today there were only tiny dots were the long split had been. So I of course was very happy about that.
He agreed about the antibiotic, just thought it should be 10 days and not 7. Also gave me a different product to put on the wound. In 10 days he will come back out and remove any proud flesh.
Of course no one knows the outcome. But like he said, if I am willing to do the work, her body will do what it needs to do. I don't know if at this point I will get to ride her, but I know it won't even be considered for about 90 days. So she will just get lots of extra long during that time.
Thanks and I will keep you all updated.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 12:55 am:
Hi Tamara and welcome to HA. I just want to offer encouragement along with everyone else. And congratulations on making the decision to get a second vet's opinion. It sounds like it was definitely a good decision.
Please do keep us updated and, if possible, include photos of your progress. We'll all be rooting for you and Smoke!
~Sara
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 9:08 am:
Sounds great Tamara, what is the product you are treating the wound with and are you still bandaging?
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 11:31 am:
Hello
I will for sure keep track with photo's. I am excited honestly now to bet this!
Dr O we are using Animax. I am to keep it on for two days with the wrap. Then remove, pressure spray and see how the tissue is looking. If it is still protruding, then another dose on the wound. Then wrap back up for two more days. Once I see the tissue down, we go back to the Fuva zone.
I feel real comfortable with the way we are going about it.
It is so nice to know I can turn here with concern's or even hey check out how wonderful she is doing 
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 10:35 pm:
Hang in there Tamara. It'll take awhile but many of these wounds do heal. We are all rooting for you and your horse!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 10:37 pm:
Tamara, a lot of us share your feelings. I for one had a mare very seriously injured. You can read about her if you do a search for Libby under tendon injuries. Without the emotional support I'm not sure I would have made it. It was such a relief to have other horse lovers I could share my fears and joys with. There are a lot of good people on this board, as well as the good Dr.O.
Again, good luck with your mare.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 6:28 am:
Hello Tamara,
I can see the rationale behind the Animax as the steroid may help reduce the proud flesh but it also reduces the rate of skin healing so should be used cautiously. That said many get wounds healed with it's use but I recommend you discuss this with your veterinarian.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 1:00 pm:
Wish I could say things are great with Smoke! Yesterday after being on antibiotic's for 10 days, we scheduled the vet to come out. He was going to sedate her and clean out the proud flesh. The wound was not where he wanted to see it at all.
On Thursday when we changed the bandage with all the Animax on it. I was so excited. The wound looked so good. When I changed it on Sunday, it didn't look as good. By Monday, it looked terrible again.
As the vet said no real reason for the change that he could understand. She was still on the Uniprim. I was cleaning the same way...etc.
So we are back to step one again. The question I guess I have. Do you think I should be doing a daily bandage change and spray with the water? The vet said he likes to see the Animax on for at least two days. But if I wanted I could go a head and change it. What is your opinion?
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 2:00 pm:
Tamara, sorry to hear your progress is slipping a little. I would follow your vet's advice in this case as he is the one who is best able to assess the wound.
Wounds with excess proud flesh can be very slow to heal going from better to worse to better to worse etc etc. I worked with a filly years ago that had a horrible wire fence wound on her LH, the cannon bone area had what looked like a football sized mass of proud flesh on it. Our vets debrided the wound (surgically removing the granulated tissue) 3 or 4 times over the course of a year and it kept coming back. It took a loooong time for the skin to grow back to cover the wound but it eventually did. If I remember correctly it took about a year and a half to heal. Interestingly after the first couple months she was sound on the leg.
Anyway keep up the good work and be patient. The wound you show wasn't nearly as bad as the one I'm thinking of so hopefully it won't take nearly as long to heal  Just keep after it and don't give up.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 5:53 pm:
Tamara, I am uncertain why you and your veterinarian are discouraged? What did your veterinarian say was the problem?
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 6:57 pm:
For one he was seeing a tendon now. Not sure if the flap was covering it or not. I think what was so disappointing was the first change with the Animax the area looked so much better. But then the last two changes looked like we were going backwards. I know Jared was thinking he would debree (sp) the area, but with the way it looked, he didn't want to.
My question is...would you suggest I remove the bandage every day and clean the wound. Or have you seen with the system you talk about in deep wounds that every other day would work?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 9:15 am:
I still am uncertain what the problem is as I can see tendons in the images above and if the wound does not need debridement then it just doesn't. It is not surprising as 2 weeks would have been a bit early for excessive granulation tissue to form particularly with the use of a steroid on the wound. It is normal for wounds to enlarge for a week or so after the injury due to contraction of the skin and to a lesser degree necrosis of severely traumatized tissue.
I have seen wounds cleaned every other day heal fine but generally there is more granulation tissue to deal with because of the extra day of accumulated inflammatory products.
DrO
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 10:12 am:
Tamara,
Very recently, I went through a situation that is not unlike yours. (See Road Rash discussion). I was 4 days into the injury when I discovered the articles on this site pertaining to her injuries. I started cleaning( antibacterial shampoo, only) and hosing at least once a day to keep the crud to a minimal level as per the treatments in these articles. This mare made an amazing recovery in a very short time. Her wounds did a similar thing where they got worse before they got better and I did not need any debridement of proud flesh ( although your situation may be different in this respect).
I think these types of injuries need to heal from the inside out and the proud flesh allows them to do that. As long as you can see the opening around the hole closing a little bit more each day, then you should be ok. It's as if the proud flesh folds into itself after a while.
I also had a good results by using a cold wet poultice pad ( see road rash discussion) to draw out the gunk that accumulated overnight between hosings and cleanings. This mare moved every day for three and a half weeks until I felt she was recovered enough to turn out. When I did turn her out I sprayed her knees with Alumisol ( Spray on bandage) and she did very well.
Keep your chin up.
Rachelle
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 12:12 pm:
Rachelle where is the road rash thread. I can't find it. Probably not looking in the correct place 
Tami
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 2:08 pm:
Thought I would give you a update and also my plan of action.
I thought about how the leg looked with the daily bandage changes and sprays. So I am going to start doing it daily.
After much thought, I realized that when the leg started looking bad again, was when it was only being changed every 48 hrs. I don't care if I can never ride Smoke again. But I am going to heal this leg, and we are going to have several more years together. She is going to know what it is to be loved and have food to eat daily!
The leg today looked better than on Monday when the vet was out. Still not as good as last week after he was here and we started the new Animax. I think that is the product to use, I just think with all the gross stuff in there, that it will help like you all say with a daily cleaning.
I would still like to read about the road rash, if anyone can tell me where to look.
I am into a lot of natural stuff. I was thinking about comfrey poultice on it. I know that it is wonderful for healing of the bone. But I honestly don't know enough to be comfortable not using anything but that on it with the wound condition. Anyone know about it.
Thanks DR O hopefully you agree my plan of attack is a good one with the daily changes.
Tami
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 2:25 pm:
Tami,
You are doing fine. You can change the bandage and do water therapy every day, but if you miss a day, that will be okay. The main thing is to keep it clean and free from infection and keep the mare on good nutrition and water . . . Keep her happy
If you have questions about how it looks, you can call your vet or post photos.
You are doing fine.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 3:25 pm:
Tami,
Just type road rash in the search box at the top of the page it should be the first discussion on the page.
Rachelle
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 3:51 pm:
Rachelle....found it
Boy if that doesn't give me some hope, I don't know what will. I will take the picture out to Smoke and tell her, that this is her in a few months. haha
Now if I understand what you said in all the threads, you kept her very active. Towed??? I am thinking, she still went out and towed the cart, just not running?????
She is beautiful!
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 4:08 pm:
Sorry...one question. I place stick free bandages on the wound area. They I wrap with fleece, two times around. Do you think it is a bad idea to reuse vet wrap?
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 4:23 pm:
Tami, I wouldn't reuse the vet wrap if it has any wound secretions on it.
My Colorado vet recommend gauze wrap and then a layer of sheet cotton over the non-stick bandages when my pony sliced his back fetlock to the tendon. He, too, said to rewrap every two days. If you have a polo wrap, you can wrap that over the sheet cotton if you don't want to keep buying lots of vet wrap. Gauze wrap is just another layer added to hold the non-stick bandages in place. Sheet cotton pads the wound in case the horse bangs her leg, and it absorbs secretions, too.
Maybe your vet has shown you differently, and that's okay. I know the sheet cotton can be expensive, but it does add some extra protection to a leg wound and helps prevent strangulation of the leg if the vet wrap gets wrapped too tightly by mistake.
Maybe some other folks have different bandaging techniques they will share.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 5:52 pm:
Tami,
I have a 3 horse tow gate I bought two years ago ( although my horses tow one at a time)and I use my SUV to tow it. It has come in handy in a lot of situations. I mostly have nutcases for horses and the tow gate gives them their exercise and calms them down. It also allows them to do something different, keeps them from getting bored and keeps their attitude great. Plus, I can vary my speed depending on where I am in my weekly training schedule. It worked extremely well during my filly's rehab because she got to go out everyday even if it was not to the field. I am not sure what I would have done had I not had the tow gate. Walking her was not an option ( She's nuts), I am not sure how she would have taken to lounging and I couldn't jog her just in case she would have flipped out or tripped and fallen down again (she's done that too)with her knees the size they were. I controlled the speed and the distance she went increasing the mileage and the speed when she was ready for it. All and all it worked out perfectly. She was in very fit condition by the time she started back training and she made it back to the races a lot faster than I thought she would.
As far as bandaging goes, I used large gauze pads and gauze cling rolls and I used regular bandages (no bows), not sheet cottons. I did use vet wrap over the top in the beginning, but found that as long as I wrapped snugly ( not tightly) regular standing bandages worked fine.
Your horses injury is in a different place than mine ( Knees vs ankles). So I would think yours would be easier to deal with. I had to wrap her front legs first and then put the knee bandages over the top, so they wouldn't slide down her legs. I had to make sure she had enough room for her knees to be able to bend in case she wanted to lay down and get up.
Here is one more thing. I would keep her on the Uniprim or some SMZ pills for longer than 10 days, especially if your vet thinks there is still infection present or if the wound does not appear to be going in the right direction. As long as she does not have any symptoms of gastric upset ( diarrhea in particular)keeping her on the antibiotics for a longer time may help her long term to keep other areas of injury from flaring up and abcessing like her leg did.
Good Luck and keep us updated
Rachelle
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 6:18 pm:
To cut costs for us, we used the no stick bandage over that thin layer of gauze wrap, then over that a pillow soft standing wrap .. This saved us a ton of money as we wrapped for months..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 8:36 am:
Rachelle, do you have any photos of your tow gate in use (with horses I mean)? If so I'd love to see what it looks like if it's not a lot of trouble.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 11:05 am:
Hi LL,
Here are some pictures of my towgate with one of the horses I "rescued" from an auction. He went all his jog miles and some of his training miles behind the tow gate and I raced him 10 times last year before returning him to the people that owned him for the first 10 1/2 years of his life ( He's 13 now and still racing for them. There is more of a story behind this horse but I'll save that for another day. That's Hubby with the horse. I am in the truck.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 11:35 am:
Tami, if your vet said you should keep pressure wrap on the wound then don't use the cotton or pillow wraps and polo wraps; use the vetwrap instead, with thin wrap of cotton underneath.
Also, a not regarding the tow gate, if a horse isn't used to being towed, I'd be carefull until it gets used to it. A fellow down the road from us was "teaching a horse to lead" by towing it behind a truck, and he tore all the muscles in the hores neck and the horse had to be put down. So, just make sure your horse leads easily and gets used to the gate before starting off along with her behind the gate.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 11:36 am:
Thanks for posting that Rachelle, I was curious too. Talk about easier than hand walking!! I used to work with standardbreds on the breeding farm side and will always have a soft spot for them. They (at least the broodmummies!) are the most forgiving, easy going horses. Layups and track horses can of course be a different type for their own good reasons ;)
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 11:51 am:
Sara, why not a pillow standing wrap for a pressure wrap? Seems that has been used for years as a pressure wrap.. solid easy to apply evenly.. Vet wrap is great stuff but i don't see how it can be used as a pressure wrap..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 11:52 am:
Thanks for showing the pics, Rachelle.
(by the way, is your name pronounced "RAY-chel" or Rah-shell?)
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 3:04 pm:
Holly,
Its Ruh-shell.
Sara, You are 150% correct. That's why I only tow one at a time. I break mine very slowly and I never go more miles then they have jogged in a jogcart when I break them. They learn to be very well behaved because I take my time with them. I usually have another person behind them when I start out at the walk and once they learn that that big gate is not going to hurt them, they are usually fine.
I have seen people throw three horses that have never been behind the gate on it to and they were fine as well, but I would never take that chance. I have also seen people not break their horses correctly and have them act like bucking broncos. I try to stay away from them.
When I first start out, I pay attention to them and at the first sign of balking, I slow up and wait for them to get their feet under them. I would not recommend this for an unbroke horse, they are nuts enough as it is.
All the best
}Rachelle
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 3:21 pm:
Thanks a lot for the education, Rachelle! I'd never heard of tow gates. I can imagine that they come in very handy once your horse is trained.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 29, 2009 - 7:32 pm:
Smart lady, Rachelle! Sometimes I say things because there are "newbies" reading the threads, and I wouldn't want one anyone to try and lead a horse with a truck or car unless it was trained to do so.
Ann, my understanding of a "pressure wrap" is to keep pressure on the wound and imo a pillow wrap is to "cushy" to keep enough pressure on. I like just the cotton then vet-wrap personally. Maybe I need to re-read Dr.O's article again; there's always a SLIGHT possibility I could be wrong!
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 11:06 pm:
Hi All
Well things are going easier with the bandage changes. I told my son that is a paramedic, if he needs me on the medic...I am here for him! He only laughed...but not phone calls yet.
I do have a question and hate to call the vet on a Saturday.
When I went to change the bandage today, there was a dark cream colored foam coming out of the bandage in one spot. Even my husband looks and said that doesn't look good.
I was almost afraid to look once the bandage was removed. But I was surprised. It looked good. In fact today was the first day that I was happy with what I was seeing.
A friend said I should be concerned about the foam and the color, and thought I should call the vet or DrOp a note on here.
So any idea's? No more swelling, in fact I felt it was down. Nice pink color....moving around easy. In fact put my new gelding and her together today in a larger dry lot for company.
Thanks for any help
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 9:57 am:
Hello Tami,
I see foamy exudates when movement traps air and then forces it through the exudate. It sounds like this is happening in the bandage.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 7:41 pm:
Thanks Dr O. She did get pretty stirred up the night before. My stallion paid her a visit, that was not welcomed.
It looks great today. Every day seeing a little more improvement. I will take a picture to share with ya all tomorrow.
Thank you for all the help...
Tami
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2009 - 11:04 pm:
Dr O what does MVB stand for when associated with a vet? I just noticed when I was calling the vets office today, that is what is before the vet's name I am using.
Also, what do you think of Pine Pitch for deep wounds?
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Member:
warthog
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 12:47 am:
I've seen some really horrible looking wounds totally heal with no scar so hang in there. a horse next door totally scalped himself down to the bone. It was seriously horrible. It healed back and is fine. Another destroyed his knee and kept popping it open. It's fine now also. the main thing to keep getting it as clean as possible because as long as there is any dirt in the wound it won't totally heal. good luck
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 6:55 am:
That would be a enthusiastic No on the use of pine pitch for deep wounds. MVB is likely to be the Irish designation for veterinary graduates: Bachelor of Veterinary Medicine.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 8:46 pm:
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/24093weeks.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/Feb43weeks.jpg[/IMG]
Well here we are a day 21 from the accident. The last couple of days have been so nice. I have been able to clean her up and let it air for a little while. I want to be riding, and looking at it last night, it felt like it was going to be so long off.
But looking at the pictures from day one, I have to say we are getting there. She has been such a good girl. She is off all Med's other than the products that go on the wound.
Thinking about walking her a little each day out of the stall. What do you think.
The flap is helping the protect that tendon, but it is dead, and not attaching. I think it would almost be better removed to let the tissue grow there. What do you think on that.
Sorry one picture is not great. But that area is looking very pretty  so not concerned with it as much. Nice color to the tissue. I will take a better picture tomorrow. I value your opinions on what I need to watch for.
So....are you thinking yes it is doing better?
Tami
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 9:43 pm:
You'll need Dr.O's opinion on the flap, but I think overall she is looking a lot better. I assume she'll need to have some proud flesh removed after she heals up more, but maybe that's the flap I'm looking at? She certainly looks like she is going to recover! Hang in there. Really good job so far.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 7:18 am:
I see major improvement from the first pictures, Tami. Kudos to you for your care & dedication.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 8:20 am:
Tami,
This looks much better, believe it or not eventually the wound will close completely. I see in your earlier posts that you were turning her out. Is she still moving ok. Any lameness that you can see. I ask because she seems to be cocking her leg as if she does not want to bend it fully down to the ground.
As far as the flap, I don't think I'd touch anything until after the everything closes, one of mine had a flap like that right on the front of her ankle that never bothered her.
Keep up the good work
Rachelle
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 9:57 am:
The flap decision must be made by the veterinarian Tami, but the wound is granulating in well. Though the flap has not granulated down well I would be surprised if it is dead. Be sure you keep the wound well bandaged and limit exercise to help get it attached. Be sure excessive granulation tissue is removed from under the flap to minimize post healing enlargement.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 12:00 pm:
Thanks everyone.
Rachelle, I haven't turned her out yet. She is in a large dry lot 20x40 with our new gelding. As for the foot, she seems to hold it like that right after the spraying. But she is putting weight on the leg with out the wrap. But of course she is tied at the time I clean it.
Dr. O
I am going to call the vet today and chat with him about where we are. As for the flap, I do make sure it is washed and rinsed out very well. I have started placing ointment under it. I thought at first I wanted it to latch on so I didn't put anything there. It still have a deeper hole there and doesn't seem to be filling in as well as the other areas.
Question about the bandage, I am to the place now...I put the ointment on and cover with non-stick bandages. Then I wrap loosely a very thin brown medical wrap around that. I have not in the last few days been putting a cotton wrap around that. Should I still? I do put vet wrap. It is loose at the top and the bottom, but firm around the injury.
Does that sound good, or should I be using more support products?
Also, airing it out on nice days. Should I allow her to move a little or no with the bandage off? Does the bandage off help with the skin growing back?
Tami
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 5, 2009 - 6:53 pm:
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010201.jpg[/IMG]
Here is a better picture of the outside of the leg.
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010207.jpg[/IMG]
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 8:25 am:
I would bet that flap is alive and needs preservation as it will greatly decrease the time to heal.
Large wounds over joints will have more problems with proud flesh when moved: the flexing tears up the granulation bed which then lays down more granulation tissue. A heavy bandage well applied helps limit this motion. On the other hand there is research that shows lower leg wounds with no bandage form less proud flesh. I personally don't have proud flesh problems: I cut it off as it occurs. I am not sure how these two opposing forces may work out in your case.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 1:24 pm:
Dr. O so, you would suggest the cotton back on in the wrapping process?
Anything special you feel I could do to preserve the flap other than what I am doing? I do make sure that is it down tight before I wrap.
Tami
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Member:
warthog
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Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 11:53 pm:
a neighbor horse recently had knee surgery because of an injury that wouldn't heal and was infected. she is now splinted so she can't move it at all because the movement was interfering with the healing. she had a tendon puncture with a dirty wound that has been horrendous to treat and finally they had to go in and clean it again and put in a drain but even after it started healing it started swelling again so they splinted it about two weeks ago and it is looking really good now so immobilizing does seem to help some joint wounds. they had kept it pretty much wrapped fairly tightly but the horse got a pressure sore on the rear of her knee. with the splint they don't have that problem. the heat and swelling are pretty much gone now and she is only allowed about ten minutes a couple of times a day to move around without the splint. the vets and owners are pleased with her so far.
we have found with our own injuries that we only get proud flesh when there is still debris in the wound. horses tend to get really dirty wounds so when we have this problem I just go back to a lots of hosing and cleaning and wrap well enough to keep the injury clean and we really haven't had a problem with proud flesh perhaps because we clean so thoroughly. one of our mares had a nasty puncture in her fetlock and I cleaned it under sedation for two hours with optical saline and very very dilute clorox - a couple of sprays of 40 to 1 on a wet clean cloth and a couple of DrOps in distilled water squirted into the wound. It healed well but I had to do a repeat clean in a week because it swelled a bit. No more problems after that. so if you're having a problem with proud flesh or a lot of swelling I'd be very suspicious that there's still some contamination in the wound that needs to get out.
good luck and keep us posted. they are amazing in their ability to heal. our gelding's stallion buddy decided to take huge chunks out of his butt and in a week's time they were totally healed and all the hair had grown back.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 7, 2009 - 9:17 pm:
I am so confused. Are there pictures of normal flesh and proud flesh? How do you know one from the other? Can the proud flesh look smooth at all? Is there any way to look at my last pictures and tell me where you would be concerned about proud flesh? I know you probably think I am very stupid. I just have never dealt with a major injury on a horse. I am trying really hard to care for her.
Dr. O still hoping you will answer my questions of saving the flap and wrapping. I am not sure what you mean by heavy and well applied. Should I take pictures and show you what I am doing? I really need and want your help.
Today Smoke apparently was scratching it on something. She pulled the bandage down. But I was able to get it nice and clean, then wrapped it again.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 8, 2009 - 7:58 am:
Tami, the images above show granulation tissue. I cannot judge if it has become exuberant which is the term for what horsemen call proud flesh. Review the Long Term Care article and the section under Components of Wound Healing where this process is carefully explained.
A "heavy bandage" is simply one with many layers of cotton and "well applied" means it is snug but not with any excessive pressure points. You will find a thorough description of bandaging at Diseases of Horses » First Aid » Bandaging Horses.
If you will carefully study these words I think you will come to understand most of your questions however when it comes to specific decisions about the treatment of your wound you need to get your veterinarian involved, it takes the ability to examine the wound first hand to make good decisions. He also can show you how to apply such a bandage if deemed appropriate for treatment of the wound.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 8, 2009 - 1:02 pm:
That is it. The bandage thread was what I was looking for
Thank you
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Feb 9, 2009 - 2:02 pm:
Dr O
Ordered all the bandage products that you had listed for the wound. I had been using pretty much the same thing. Other than I could only find smaller 3x3 pads. So I was using 3 to cover the ointment and wound before wrapping. So I ordered larger ones.
Today when wrapping I was a little concerned. I wanted to share a couple things.
1. If you notice the last two pictures of the outside of the leg at the top. That area has gotten very red. The vet had me change from surgical scrub to Joy soap. I am not sure if I care for it. Smoke acts like it is painful.
2. When reading the care of the wound, you do talk about spraying it out, but nothing about washing it. Should I still be washing it?
3. When I remove the bandages in that area they has been the last couple times a darker yellow thick film covering that area. What is that? I notice it is very slimy (sp) Would that be a scab forming if it was exposed to air?
I am still putting the Animax on the area's that the vet felt needed to go down in size and the Fura on the other area. Other than today I thought it looked so angry I use put the Fura on.
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010208.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010212.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010209.jpg[/IMG]
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2009 - 9:17 am:
Tami, I cannot treat your wound by internet, decisions have to be made by someone who can examine the horse.
Once I have a healthy granulation bed, I very rarely feel the need for soaps or medicated soaps. Maybe if the wound becomes grossly contaminated with dirt. The yellow exudate sounds like puss a fairly normal event during wound care but if it becomes profuse or odorous, consider an extra bandage change.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 6:31 pm:
Thought you might like to see a beautiful face instead of a nasty looking back leg.
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010214.jpg[/IMG]
She had just gotten her bandaged changed for the day. She always gets dinner or a treat, so to be wasting her time while I took a picture was a little to much for her
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010215.jpg[/IMG]
Ahhh things are much better now. Now go away mom I will see you tomorrow for breakfast
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 8:10 pm:
Tami, it's nice to see her face for a change! I'm so glad she had a caring home with you. She looks like a sweet girl who will really respond to your care.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 9:29 pm:
LOL . . . nice to see another part of her body. Maybe someday we can see the whole thing? Maybe with you on top??
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 11:02 pm:
That will be such a blessing. I am worried that I won't be able to ride her. But that will be ok, we will grow old together...
Thank you for all the kind words, support, and education during this.
One of the local equine clubs will be offering a wound class in a few week. I thought...heck I'll teach it by then!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 11:43 pm:
Tami, I will never be able to ride my mare Libby again, yet I wouldn't trade her for the world. She was going to be my show horse before her terrible injury. Now I am just really glad to have her at all. I have such a good time with her. During the winter I can't turn her out, but I have started playing games with her like "follow the leader" and a form of tag. When the weather is good I take her for long walks down the road. There is lot more to having a horse, as you may know, than just being able to ride. Hang in there; I think you're doing a great job.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 1:19 pm:
Thought I would share the wound today. We are having lovely weather, and there is not a place on our 10 acres that doesn't look like this right now. Plus spraying for 2-3 minutes adding more water.
But she is such an angel, just stands there and never moves that leg during the whole bandage change process....
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010220.jpg[/IMG]
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 1:56 pm:
Tami,
You are doing a great job, you can see on the outer edges that the wound is slowly healing. And the fill looks like its leaving too.
Very good.
Rachelle
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 2:02 pm:
Thanks Rachelle...
I am trying so hard. I got all new bandage stuff from Vet America on Friday. Which is making the process 100% better.
I do have a question for Dr O. I am not seeing the flap staying down. Any idea's to help this attach??? The vet would like to remove it this coming week.
Tami
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 2:51 pm:
Looks GReaT Tami.. yea, my place is looking pretty mucky now too. its the season..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Friday, Feb 20, 2009 - 12:48 pm:
Dr O...noticed in your profile you have birds. I have two large cockatoo's plus several others...ha ha. I am having a problem with my female Triton. I was wondering if you would mind helping? We have NO bird vets in our area....
Tami
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Friday, Feb 20, 2009 - 7:58 pm:
Well here is the wound today. The flap is not attaching at all. Don't know what else to do to try to attach it.
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010237.jpg[/IMG]
The wound is healing well.
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010238.jpg[/IMG]
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 21, 2009 - 8:26 am:
Tami, besides the limit of my time here I would not consider myself a bird veterinarian either. I take my birds to my associate for examination.
It looks to me that the granulation bed is becoming exuberant Tami and should be carefully trimmed back that would include under the unattached portion of the flap. The flap will attach down but it takes time.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 24, 2009 - 9:23 pm:
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010241.jpg[/IMG]
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
Feel like I'm at a impasse with Smokey's wound. The flap is not attaching at all.
Reading on the wound care, if I understand correctly, the bandage can be removed when it is filled in totally. But doesn't have to have skin over it?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 9:24 pm:
That is correct Tami.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 7:36 pm:
Here are some current pictures. The vet hasn't came out yet. Just to cold he feels. I am praying this coming week.The split has filled in.
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/31209a.jpg[/IMG]
What do you think about light riding? I have turned her out now for a few weeks.
Tami
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 8:20 pm:
Hard to believe that's the same horse; her leg looks so much better! Good work! I'll let Dr.O. advise on the riding. Just wanted to say you've really been doing a great job.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 8:51 pm:
great job, Tami..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 9:03 pm:
Thanks. WE just passed the 60 day mark on the 15th. Seems like I have been changes this bandage for a yr. I will be so happy when it is over. The colder weather was the best thing for the wound...but not for my old bones.
But in the end it will be worth it. She has now started "catch me if you can" when I come out with the bandage kit, the big monster. ha-ha
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 7:34 am:
Hello Tami,
As per my Feb 5th post, because this wound lies directly over the fetlock I would discourage riding or even pasture turn out till healed. The more flexion you get the more granulation tissue that forms.
DrO
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 11:49 am:
Tami, the old saying " Time heals all wounds" was no doubt started by a horse owner! Great job ....
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Mar 23, 2009 - 8:49 pm:
3/23/09 The wound is starting to heal up and get smaller. I have started measuring it to keep track. As you can see the flap is still there. The weather is has been crazy. Warm day, snow day. Horses shed, then I feel bad.
Here are current pictures, plus the photo album to see from almost day one the difference.
https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/
I started using a wonderful product called Fiske's Hoof & Hide Balm about a month ago. It is all natural. I had been reading on what I could use natural, but was afraid to try mixing it up my self. I found this site on accident.
I can't say enough about these folks. Their customer support has been wonderful. They write me all the time to check on Smokey, and in the beginning just to give me a lot of support, like I have found on here. I will never be without some in my medical box.
I in fact used it on a chicken a few weeks ago. A dog got one of my chickens and skinned her in places, I took her in the house and started putting it all over the skinned areas. I kept her in the house. She went out about 5 days ago!
https://www.naturalhorsehealthcentre.com/products.html
I am not making anything off these statement. I just wanted to share where the wound is at. I followed all of DR O's directions for about 6-7 weeks. I still spray it for 3 minutes everyday. But I apply this product to the wound now, instead of anything else. I honestly started noticing a difference within a week or so.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010273.jpg
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009 - 7:53 am:
Tami, it is about time for contraction phase to begin. But this is not because of the Hoof and Hide Balm.
I have gone and looked at the web site you reference above and first thing I would note is that the product you describe appears not to be an open wound care product but more a infectious skin disease and dry hoof treatment product. The information on the specific ingredients is missing from the web site. These are the indications listed on the site:
Veterinarian Developed for Hoof, Skin & Muscle
Natural Hoof Care
Balances Moisture
Promotes Growth
Restores Cracks
Builds & Maintains
Natural Skin Remedy
Heals Cuts, Wounds
Dandruff, Itchy Tail
Scratches, Sweet Itch
Rain Rot, Ringworm
Mud Fever/Cracked Heels
Itchy Ears
Mange
This product is not designed to treat large open wounds and when it says cuts it must mean little bitty cuts. I would guess this product is slowing down the formation of new skin as the only ingredient I can find on any product on the site is pine tar and the list of indications on the product are usually reserved for pine tar.
Without the specific ingredient list it is hard to be too definite but I base this judgement on the idea that they do make a wound care cream but it contains pine tar and would not recommend it either. These may be veterinarian formulated but with the knowledge we had 60 years ago. I would be interested in reconsidering my opinion with a list of the specific ingredients.
DrO
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009 - 12:50 pm:
What sold me at first was the picture of the horse that fell out of the moving trailer. Did you see his wounds?
I did write to the company and explain the injury with all the pictures. They felt it was fine to use at the stage I was at.
If you look to the right of the website, you can see what it can be used on.
*Natural Skin Remedy
Heals Cuts, Wounds
Dandruff, Itchy Tail
Scratches, Sweet Itch
Rain Rot, Ringworm
Mud Fever/Cracked Heels
Itchy Ears
Mange*
The ingreds
Which are listed at the about the middle of the page is
The famous Fiske's Hoof & Hide Balm and new Horse to Hound Skin & Wound Salve are made with all natural ingredients including: beeswax, Pine Tar Oil, Neatsfoot Oil, Vitamin E, Shea Butter and pure, therapeutic essential oils of Camphor, Eucalyptus, Menthol, Thymol and Wintergreen.
These healing ingredients provide anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-septic and anti-inflammatory properties to treat conditions such as: dry and cracked feet, paddock wounds, scurf, fungal conditions, muscle soreness and sun burn. Fiske's relieves pain, swelling and inflammation.*
I noticed when I first put the product on her, it didn't sting like the others. When I would put the other items on she would stomp her foot, or try to pull it away.
My question would be, why do you feel that it would cause the skin to not grow back?
Let me know what you think of the products in the mixture now that I have listed them.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009 - 9:53 pm:
Tami, many folks confuse what a wound can heal with and what is best for the wound to heal. So it is with this product. There is nothing natural about spreading pine tar on a open wound.
Many of these chemicals are probably antibacterial but almost all antimicrobials are also tissue toxic, that is why it is very hard to find good antibiotics. And while some of these may be anti-inflammatory, I don't know of any work that supports that, many are also well known rubifacients know for their ability to induce inflammation and if fact are used specifically in poultices and leg braces for their rubifacient action. This would include most of the "therapeutic essential" oils. None of which have any deep wound healing properties and none of which are essential for anything I know of.
Will this wound heal with this product...maybe I don't really know. But I do know it will heal better and faster without it.
DrO
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 1:28 am:
Tami: Try searching "Babe" and "Theron" on this site. If you read the post about Babe, and go to "Theron's" site, you can read about "Babe". Go to BABE'S PAGE on Theron's site and go to ( I believe ) the second picture where it says "slideshow", click on it, and wait patiently while it downloads. Dr.O's cold hosing and wound healing recommendations were followed - you'll see a miracle.
The formation of delicate new skin cells is so important to the growth of new tissue to cover your wound. Caustic or harsh substances will severely hamper the development of this weak new tissue. Instead, harsh substances applied to the wound, cause the death of weak new epithelial cells at the wound edges, and result in a "panic" effort of the healing process to cover the exposed wound, resulting in an exaggerated, growth of granulomatous tissue. This is "proud flesh". The stuff you don't want.
Best of luck to you, Tami.
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Friday, Mar 27, 2009 - 1:23 pm:
I notice yesterday that she had her eyes closed like they were bother her. I rinsed them out and changed her bandage. I wasn't concern, since it was very windy and dust flying for the last few days.
Today when I went out, I notice her very uncomfortable on her leg. It was early morning, but went a head and changed her bandage.
Her leg was warm, and swelling down by the joint. I took her temp and it is 101.8 Trying to get a hold of the vet!!!!
Please pray it is nothing serious. I will let you know...
Tami
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 11:28 pm:
Well it has been a crazy few days. Smokey has ran a low grade fever since Friday. The vet wasn't able to get out until today.
The vet was very surprised and also extremely happy with the way the wound looked. In fact he said I could come and care for wounds and wrap them for him
Dr Jared did end up taking a small part of the flap off. It had curled under and had a small amount of hair attached. He felt it was causing the flap to not attach completely. So it is down, took a couple of stitches.
As for the fever he checked her over and said it had nothing to do with the leg for sure. Thought maybe a flu bug. So we kept her on the antibiotic for safety measures. She is back locked in the dry lot for a few more days.
So I am showing the vet the other two horses that I have rescued. Saw nothing strange. He leaves...I feed. I notice my new mare for my daughter is not interested in her grain at all. Then she is DOWN! I rushed over and took her temp 103.6 I called the vet. We have no idea what I am dealing with. But everyone is in different stalls for the time. Of course they all have now been exposed. As this was happening, my husband comes home. He is unloading a huge bale of Blue Grass clippings for Rocky and puts a dent in his tail gate. He now hates me and the horses. Tonight he said the horses are all gone. I am sick at heart right now. I understand the problem. I have taken in 3 horses in the last couple of months, and it has been one thing after another. I don't know if I am going to be able to talk him out of this. He just had to take a pay cut at work, and the stress of all of this is really getting to him 
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 11:38 pm:
Aww, Tami. How rough for you. I'm sure your husband is feeling a bit neglected, too, with all the time and expense you have had with the horses. They are like kids in many ways. They are dependent upon us once we take them in.
I hope a good night's sleep and some tender care will help your husband see things in a different light in the morning.
Glad that Smokey's wound is doing so well. You have become an expert wound care-giver.
As for the fever, hope it is just a virus that will play itself out with no other ill effects than some lethargy and lack of appetite. Do any of the horses have snotty noses? Is the horse that was down the most recent addition to your "herd?"
I'm thinking "Strangles," but it could be lots of things.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 7:21 am:
Tami,
Well done on the wound care!
I have little advice to offer on the rest of your post, but I will say this: in a world where there is so much that is turned upside down, bad and depressing, the rescue and diligent care of three horses may seem like a small thing. But, in my mind, you have made a difference. Your sacrifices of time and money to care for your rescues is a wonderful thing...something positive when there is so little positive to be found. I hope knowing that you have made that positive contribution will lighten your load and will help to resolve your husbands frustration.
I hope the fevers resolve quickly and that everyone will be OK in a day or so.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 8:11 am:
Tami, for more on horses with fevers see, Diseases of Horses » Fever of Unknown Origin.
DrO
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 10:53 am:
Tami, hope the fevers are just a passing annoyance.
Good job on the wound.
Be patient, usually when we first bring horses home is when they get sick/injured. In time they tend to settle in and have less problems. Assure your husband that it won't always be so!
BTW, careful with the grass clippings. If you are feeding them directly to the horses, watch for choke. We had an episode many moons ago before I knew the danger.
Hoping for better horse times soon.
Erika
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 8, 2009 - 7:30 pm:
Hi everyone
Well we are 9 days out from having a small area of flap removed. I am so excited about the results. The entire area is getting smaller. It looks healthy. I plan on riding by Mothers day!!!!
I told Smoke that today. I am not sure she really cares.
Today's phonot
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010287.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010289.jpg[/IMG]
Day 3 1-09
[IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/cleaned217th.jpg[/IMG]
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 8, 2009 - 10:21 pm:
Wonderful!! good job, Tami. I hope you and Smokey have many happy rides together.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 7:51 am:
Tami that looks so much better!!! Be careful when you start riding her. I had a mare with a similar injury and I had to start VERY slowly.
Happy Trails
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 1:18 am:
Well we have had one ride so far. Smokey is doing great.
Thought I would share this picture with you all. I can't believe it is almost over!
Thank you all for the wonderful support
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 7:48 am:
Good job, Tami.
When you go back to the first posting and all the agonizing, you can see what a long way you and Smokey have come!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 10:30 am:
Looking good!! Lilo
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Member:
tamarag
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Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 11:57 am:
It has been a long road. Here is 2 days
Day 126
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 12:51 am:
What an amazing story of healing for such a nasty looking wound. Congratulations on your good care and happy outcome.
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![https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010273.jpg](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/Tamara1960/P1010273.jpg" target="_blank){kind=link}
