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Discussion on Fleshy tumor inside mouth of Old mare
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Friday, Feb 13, 2009 - 11:53 am:
Hi,
I have an old grey gal (arab/QH cross) that we rescued from a rescue. She was diagnosed with Cushings and she has been on pergolide for 19 months. She has not foundered and did almost shed normally last year. It is suspected she is over 25 years old, is a very hard keeper, does not have a big appetite and in order to get weight back on her, we have hand fed her - following her around and begging her to eat. Teeth are fine and vet didn't want to float as he said - leave her with what she has left. She eats grass hay fairly well, doesn't care for grain and does have arthritis, mostly in one hind leg and could be stringhalt but hasn't been diagnosed. Fecal tested last week was negative for worms.
She came with a mouth tumor that was the size of a raised quarter but is growing and now very obvious swelling on the outside of her jaw. Tumor is located just inside the fleshy part of her mouth where the bit would sit. Of course we have never bitted her. She is on a 20 acre pasture and does graze.
What would be a good course of action for this mare? Is it possible to remove the tumor and not cause her a great deal of pain? If it is removed, what would the thought process be of her being able to eat hay during the recovery time (6-12 weeks)?
Is there a less evasive treatment we could try? I would assume this is uncomfortable for her - is there a pain management would could try?
Thanks all, Kathy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 - 8:42 am:
Hello Kathy,
Your questions can only be answered with a thorough exam that identifies the depth, extent, and type tumor. Being grey and the location is consistent with melanoma but I cannot be sure. If it is there may be alternatives.
DrO
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 - 8:45 am:
Hi, Kathy,
You took on one of the hard cases, didn't you? Sounds like she is going to have a good end when the time comes.
Have you tried soaked pellets with her? Soaked complete feed or hay cubes?
I'm just thinking that if you do have surgery to remove the tumor (depending on the kind of tumor, I guess) that the well-soaked pellets would be kinder on her mouth than hay and would get her through the "raw" stage of the healing.
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 - 12:17 pm:
Dr. O - the vet pointed it out to us originally and just made the statement - that'll be what will take her. Not that specific tumor or location - just obvious to him that she is prone. She has dark nodules on the backside of her tailbone as well but they aren't growing or getting aggravated, so we ignore them ;).
So, a specific diagnosis of type of tumor is what is needed to understand if surgery will give her quality of life? If the tumor is at least 2 year old, is this normal?
Hollywood - She is the most pure hearted - honest horses I have met. A truly million dollar baby. She was probably a fiery lady in her day. She gives the 12 year old a safe, spunky ride and the 2 year old granddaughter great care 
We haven't tried soaked. We will though and see if she will go for it. If you add anything - even trace, she knows and refuses. She appears to love the Strategy the others get - not her senior as much. Loves her hay and appears to chew well. If she eats the other better - would it be Ok to not feed senior?
Thanks all, Kathy
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 - 6:16 pm:
Hi, Kathy,
I'm glad she is safe with the kids. Makes her worth having and keeping around.
I have never used Strategy, so can't speak to that, but the complete feeds are . . . well . . . lol . . . complete . . . and as long as you are giving enough of it, she should do fine (but if you cut out her hay, you would have to increase the complete feed gradually).
Soaked Senior pellets work really well. I have tried three kinds of Senior with my guys. Since one of my three seniors only likes one of the kinds, that's the kind I buy for all three old guys. I have also used Safe Choice and another brand called Safe and Sound. Both are good soaked for the older horses. I add oil to the Safe and Sound for one of my elders who really doesn't seem to do well on the Senior feed, and it may have to do with the sugar content of the Senior.
I have it on good reference that Purina Ultium is super for older or malnourished horses, even minus the hay. Though it isn't meant to be used exclusively, I know that it has been used that way with excellent results.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 14, 2009 - 9:37 pm:
The chopped grass forages are also easier to chew and digest than regular hay. I really like Tripe Crown Safe Starch grass forage because the horses love it and the Timothy is cut at the right stage for horses that have insulin problems. It has some small pellets mixed in and makes a complete feed/forage combination but it might be hard for this horse to chew those pellets without wetting.
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Member:
mitch316
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 1:29 am:
Kathy, this is just a thought, but considering her age I would be inclined to leave it alone if it was not interfering with her eating. A biopsy is easy to get from that location, but is usually expensive. I would think that if it was a malignant tumor it would have a profound effect on her energy and stamina. Again, just a thought. We had a Rocky Mountain go blind due to glaucoma and was going to try an experimental surgery, but the vet I worked for (also my farms vet at the time) said that due to her age (23) it would be best to just leave it alone. And she lived another three years after that, and knew her pasture better than the other horses with good eyes. The older they are, as you know, the more risky any operation or procedure is.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 8:35 am:
Kathy, I am sorry I don't understand your question, "Is this normal?" But to refirm your preceding statement, different types of tumors behave differently and react to treatments differently so knowing the type tumor along with the other information I list above important.
DrO
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 9:37 am:
Thanks everyone - I think I will try to switch her to the Ultimum slowly. That is one we haven't tried and I can get it locally. The Safe Choice is over an hour away. I haven't seen Safe and Sound or Triple Crown Safe Starch at any feed stores around here.
I mixed a little Strategy in her grain last night and she ate her "Platinum" senior with it pretty good. Some days she won't eat even a cup of grain and some days she will eat more (but she is really slow) - if we toss her hay, she leaves the grain and eats the hay. She gains more weight when we can get her to eat grain.
She has to eat at least some grain as that is how we administer the pergolide and her mineral salts. To date, she isn't insulin resistant but has gained probably 100 lbs since we got her 2 years ago. She could stand another 50 lbs or so though. She is about 14.1 hands. Since she loves her hay and eats it well, she gets as much as she wants.
Jesse, did your horse pass away from the glaucoma? Rosie has uveitus as well in one eye. She had some major trauma in this eye as a young horse (the story from the rescue) and her face is 'dented' and her eye is a little off center. Her last bought left her pretty blind in that eye and she was very worried to move at night. I thought that was it but it cleared up with med's in about 10 days and her cloudiness went away. YEAH. it is hard to put a number to quality of life. She enjoys her grandmother duties as she gets to boss a rescue baby around and teach him some horsey manners and that treats are the bomb .
Thanks so much everyone. Kathy
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Member:
mitch316
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 15, 2009 - 3:05 pm:
Kathy, we do not think glaucoma is the cause of her death. We went out in the morning to feed, and she was dead in her stall. She was in the same position as she always was in the mornings and I usually had to help her get up. But that morning, she didn't need it. She was 26 so we thought it was just her time to go. We rode her regularly until that point, but very lightly. She would even do trail rides and as long as you talked constantly to her, she was fine. We would open her stall in the mornings and would walk straight out to the pasture, so we had to keep the path very well cleaned. In her last 18 months or so, we would only ride her a little around the barn, and that was just because she loved to ride so much. She would get so upset when we saddled everyone but her! She was a great horse, and I don't think we will ever find one, blind or not, that is as good as she was!
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 22, 2009 - 11:41 am:
Hollywood,
Just wanted to say a big thank you to you for the suggestion of Ultium. My old gray gal absolutely loves it. She is eager and waiting for dinner every night - though she still only eats about 2 cups a day, at least she is eating which allows us to get her mineral salts in her.
Her eyes even seem brighter. Thanks so much Kathy
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 22, 2009 - 11:47 am:
Hollywood,
Just wanted to say a big thank you to you for the suggestion of Ultium. My old gray gal absolutely loves it. She is eager and waiting for dinner every night - though she still only eats about 2 cups a day, at least she is eating which allows us to get her mineral salts in her.
Her eyes even seem brighter. Thanks so much Kathy
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