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Discussion on Kicked in the Stifle
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 10:22 pm:
I noticed today that my 5yo gelding was standing more than usual with his right hind cocked. I noticed some hair ruffled above his stifle and when I palpated it he flinched like he was painful. I'm pretty sure that he was kicked b/c my other gelding has a big chunk of hair missing from his left shoulder. In reading about these stifle injury stories it sounds pretty bad. Can my horse recover from this? I was going to lunge him tomorrow to see if he was off. I didn't notice anything at the walk. What should I do? So scared.
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 10:38 pm:
Also, I did not notice heat or swelling?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 14, 2009 - 12:05 am:
How about lameness at a trot Angela?
DrO
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 15, 2009 - 10:28 am:
Hi Dr O, I lunged him yesterday on a large circle and did not notice any lameness. I must be going crazy or something lately. That spot that I noticed on his leg where I thought he was kicked was lower than his stifle. Now I did give him 2g of bute Friday night. Would that have masked any lameness on Saturday late afternoon. i wouldn't think so, but not sure. THey did just get trimmed on Thursday so maybe that foot was a little sore and that is why he was cocking it.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 8:46 am:
Just to be sure check him once the bute is out of his system for 72 hours.
DrO
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Monday, Mar 16, 2009 - 12:10 pm:
OK, I'll lunge him tonight.
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 6:21 am:
I lunged him last night and I didn't notice any lameness and he isn't painful upon palpation so I guess everything looks OK. He does not track up with that hind leg though and I've noticed that for a while.
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 11:53 pm:
I lunged him again tonight and he looks the same as he did yesterday. Still doesn't want to track up with that hind and it is more prominent when it's on the outside of the circle. Like I said though, that has been the case before and I just thought that it was attributed to underdevelopment and that the right hind is contra lateral to his club foot. Maybe he is lame and I'm not noticing it. I don't notice any changes in the level of the sacrum though and when he moves more forward with impulsion the trot becomes more symmetrical. There was a scab just below the stifle joint, but closer to the posterior portion of the tibia where he could have had trauma. I noticed some swelling too I think.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 8:58 am:
Angela, the article on localizing lameness gives some specific instructions on diagnosing hind limb lameness problems particularly if you are having difficulty seeing it see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse.
DrO
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 - 4:22 pm:
I read the article, but I have no one to trot the horse away for me. I have hard time with diagnosing lameness myself. I have been cold hosing and applying DMSO for the past 5 days. I have the vet scheduled for Monday, but in the back of my head I think that I should take him to a specialist. The problem is that I don't have a ton of money to spend on diagnostics and treatment. Yeah I guess I shouldn't have horses then right. I put him in his stall last night b/c it rained like cats and dogs making the paddock very slick with mud. When I brought him out this morning he took a few funny steps with the other hind leg. It was almost like they were collapsing. I haven't mentioned that after cold hosing and making a huge puddle in the mud he took a bad step and slid about 1.o' with his left hind (the one w/o the possible injury). I was walking him so he wasn't going fast or anything. Could he have injured that leg now? That is the same leg that he took the funny steps with this morning. I feel hopeless.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 - 6:56 pm:
There is always hope, Angela. Don't despair.
Have you had the vet out, yet?
Please do that as it will help give you some direction.
If you need to do so, the vet may take payments as long as you set up an agreement to pay.
Stifle lameness is tough because there isn't a way to really wrap it with an ice pack or anything. Your horse's other leg may be feeling the strain of carrying all the weight.
Do you have a good equine vet in your area?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 - 7:33 pm:
Angela don't feel hopeless...did you see the thread on my old mare. For a couple days I did feel hopeless, paralyzed, and stupid. I don't have good diagnostics around here either...nor can I bring myself to go in debt over a almost 30 yr. old horse (that I love dearly) Do the best you can, if you can take him to a specialist then absolutely do so.
Pour over the lameness articles in here...I knew what was wrong with my mare before the vet did just from reading them (100 times). I always seem to miss something. Along with DrO. there are very smart people on here with many varying experiences...pick their brain...I drive them nuts, but boy has it helped me  .
Good Luck with your boy
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 - 9:24 pm:
You say he was trimmed on Thursday, and Friday is when you noticed him standing funny.
It could be that the farrier changed the angle and this will make a horse sore.
I've had horses track badly and worse if a foot or feet are out of level.
I hope you get this figured out.
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 - 9:48 pm:
Thank you guys. Yeah, I did see your post Diane and I'm very sorry about your mare. I hope she can recover and give you more years This guy of mine is 5. I'll let you guys know what the vet says. I might take him to Mizzou sometime soon.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 - 10:24 pm:
As I was reading your brief description I was thinking hooves too. I missed it where Vicki pointed out he was trimmed recently.
Sometimes when a horse has sore front feet they will walk strange behind trying to take weight off the fore limbs. I know when Hank had sore front hooves his back end was all out of wack, I thought it was a stifle injury too, he also did the collapsing thing, Do you have some very soft ground you could walk him on to see if there is a difference between the way he moves on hard and soft ground?? That could give you an idea if it's his hooves, and a cheap experiment
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 7:32 am:
Hello Angela,
This may sound a bit harsh but think carefully about my intent. It remains uncertain that anything is wrong with your horse so I do not understand your despair. You need to buck up a bit. Let's wait until the veterinarian examines the horse to see if anything is wrong before we start worrying what the consequence is. Even if a problem is identified the big majority of injuries heal 100%. This hand wringing in the face of so little evidence of a actual problem is not healthy.
Diane with Angela not clear with whether anything is wrong and a "few funny steps" when it has been raining cats and dogs is not a indication of front feet problems, in fact it is not clear she has a problem at all. The horse may have just slipped since she indicates it was just a few steps that were bad.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 8:17 am:
Yes Dr.O. I realize that, I just figured it was a cheap..do no harm experiment, that could possibly tell her if her horses hooves were sore, especially since he was just trimmed.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 8:49 am:
Diane, we have a post here where Angela is uncertain there is anything wrong with her horse. I think it is a mistake to start pointing out possible diagnoses before it is clear there is anything wrong.
I know you are trying to help but what if the horse is shorter on hard ground than soft: this may be typical for this horse. And consider how this whole discussion started out: a cocked right hind and ruffled hair. Most horses which are trimmed to close are going to be ouchy on the front not the back.
I cannot rule out that this horse has foot disease but before we go looking for it lets establish something is wrong. It strikes me all this "conjecture about a conjecture" is more worrying than helpful.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 9:34 am:
Dr. O, I understand what you are saying but also do not think that anyone, including Diane, suggested "foot disease," but rather that if a horse owner thinks that any horse is standing or moving in a more strained manner than is usual, especially immediately after a trim, that the possibility of there being a relation is something that one ought to keep an open mind about.
Perhaps in a couple of days the horse will be just fine, but if the horse is giving possible clues that there may be something happening as a result of farrier work, Angela is not off base to note such a possible change and wonder what is going on, whether something turns out to be "wrong" or not.
Sometimes over time a lot of little, never identified possible "wrongs" can add up and compound into a big problem, which can possibly be avoided through observation.
It is correct, though, to point out the counter-productiveness of panic or hypothesizing about a "worst case scenario" at this time.
When I was a newer horse owner I made mistakes at times by putting too much importance in things that I did not understand, and this cost me some extra veterinary bills, but that was part of the cost of learning and being a responsible horse owner.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 10:19 am:
I agree Angela is not off base and because she is uncertain should have this examined by someone who can confirm or allay her fears. I know from first hand almost daily experience what happens when we going looking for "a cause of a problem" before we are sure there is a problem. It is the chief reason misdiagnosis and mistreatment happens. I feel y'all where moving down that line. If I have misunderstood you and Diane I apologize.
Maybe we have left out the most important help we can give Angela. Angela study the article that describes how lame horses look and how we go about diagnosing it: Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse.
DrO
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 11:51 am:
Wow! My anxiety and ignorance has definitely caused some problems. I apologize for using the phrases "so scared" and "feeling hopeless." I was scared, but the hopeless statement probably creeped in from other things in my life right now. And yes I tend to over analyze tremendously and in doing so get myself worked up for nothing most of the time. I guess that is why I wrote this post in the first place. I guess I need someone to bring me back to earth. Also, having the horses at home for the first time in my adult life contributes to my anxiety as well. I see them all of the time and notice EVERYTHING! My dad, an experienced horseman, used to help me too, but he died just recently and now I'm doing this alone. That was actually when I decided to sign up for this site again. Again, I apologize for any problems that i have caused and I promise to keep my anxiety checked at the door from now on.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 12:23 pm:
Aww, Angela. So sorry about your dad not being there to help you with the horses.
Don't worry about the anxiety (is that an oxymoron? . . . LOL)
Anxiety is necessary in order for us to sometimes push for solutions.
If your horse is still sore and flinches when you touch his stifle (sounds like this part resolved?), and if you think he is lame and in pain, get an experienced horse person you trust to come out and check and/or get the vet. It will give you some emotional relief . . . and the finances will work out.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 12:50 pm:
Angela you didn't cause any problems.
I think Dr.O. just misunderstood our thoughts, I was by no means suggesting "hoof disease" just maybe a short trim. I DID suggest reading the lameness articles and they are a good place to start. If you have your vet or farrier come maybe they can use hoof testers to do a "rule out".
Good Luck with your horse and keep us up to date!
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 - 2:39 pm:
Angela, I think it is great of you to be a conscientious horse owner and begin taking great lengths to make sure your horse is ok. A lot of ppl are quite the opposite and wouldn't notice if their horse was lame if they were hobbling on 3 legs. LOL
Anyhow, I understand your anxiety. My gelding, Blue, got kicked in his stifle area once. He came up to the barn basically carrying his back leg. I totally freaked and immediately took him to the Univ. of Florida Large Animal Hospital. After clean x-rays and an MRI it turned out he was fine. The vet explained that he probably just had fluid (blood) trapped in the joint area and that his body would naturally absorb it. She was right... he was better in less than a week.
I would first start with figuring out if your horse is lame at all. If you are noticing a mis-step, a thorough lameness exam by your vet is the best thing to do. Don't get into going to specialists until you know more though. I would think if he has a severe stifle injury he would be very lame. The fact that he is not, is definitely a good thing. If you 'aren't sure' if your horse is lame then that means it is minimal, which definitely is in your favor.
Also, I have seen 2 grams of bute make a lot of lame horses go very sound, temporarily. Make sure you don't give any bute to your horse a few days before the exam.
Good luck! ~Jen
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Member:
vera
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Posted on Friday, Apr 3, 2009 - 2:56 pm:
Well the vet was out and he said that he did see a small amount of swelling, but thought that it was superficial so not serious. He thought he was moving fine. I have pictures at home that I'd like to include, but I'll have to do that later.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 4, 2009 - 8:53 am:
Good to hear Angela,
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 4, 2009 - 5:48 pm:
Good news, Angela.
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