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Discussion on Can you use Frontline on horses?
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 9:07 am:
Since our pasture is partially wooded, we have a little bit of a tick problem with our horses. I have tried just about everything to repel them off of the horses. I have read the 'tick articles' here and was wondering if anyone has ever used Frontline on horses? Is it safe for them? Thanks so much.
~Jen
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 10:04 am:
I'm pretty sure there are Fontline-like products for horses like Equi-Spot at Valley Vet. I suspect the dog product would be very expensive to get enough to do a horse.
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 10:38 am:
Thanks, Chris... Yes, I have tried Equi-spot and similar products. And it works great for flies, mosquitoes, etc. but not enough on the ticks to make much of a difference. I also notice the horses react like it is burning them when I first apply it and stomp their feet, pin ears, roll, etc. which concerns me.
As far as the price goes... I know Frontline may be an expensive alternative, but if I only had to use it once a month during the heaviest tick season, it may be worth it. These ticks make huge oozing sores and cause the horses to rub their tails and manes out, despite me picking them off daily. It is just awful and a real pain when you are trying to get a horse 'show ready'.
Thanks again for your help. 
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 4:28 pm:
Jennifer, read the labels. I think both Spot-on and Frontline are the same active ingredients, as I recall.
Ticks are a nightmare here, too, so I sympathize. Even with Frontline I find ticks attached to the dogs--dead ones, but they lived long enough to get attached.
My horses and dogs all hate the application of it. It doesn't burn my skin when I accidentally get it on my hands, so I'm not sure what goes on for them.
A recent Equus magazine article recommended cutting tails shorter than the grass to reduce the number of ticks that horses get. I was skeptical, since they would still have all four feet and a nose usually at ground level! I guess because tails sweep across the grass tips?
I always would put a dot of the Spot-on at each knee, hoping it would cover the legs better.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 4:29 pm:
Ooops, I meant Equispot. Where did I come up with Spot-on?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 4:44 pm:
I have found de-worming my horses with Ivermectin at the beginning of tick season, then again about mid-tick season really keeps them off...or at least from sucking in. We live in tick haven, and I have only had one tick sucked in for years since I started this...tho I don't know if that is bad as far as de-worming protocol. I've had neg. fecals for a few years so I guess in MY case it's OK.
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 7:03 pm:
Thank you all for your tips! Please keep them coming.
Erika, Well I am glad to hear my horses aren't the only ones that hate the application of it. LOL Maybe it's the liquid running down their legs and backs they don't like? I really don't know but they sure do hate it. When it comes to clipping tails, I am skeptical like you. Clipping tails may help avoid them attaching to tail bones as often, but I highly doubt it will stop them from getting under their jaws, in their manes, and between their legs. I have found, however, that mowing down taller grass helps which we already do, but nothing really helps in the woods and trees. We have actually been walking along and had ticks fall out of the trees on us. (Yuck!)
I just compared Equispot to Frontline... Equispot is Permethrin and Frontline is fipronil and S-methoprene, so they are not the same... (no such luck huh?) Thanks for the suggestion though.
Diane, I had heard of de-worming w ivermectin for other skin parasites, so it is def. worth a try during the height of tick season. But since I just dewormed and still found more ticks on them, I am thinking it just kills the ticks already on them, but probably won't do much in the way of repelling them. Thanks for the idea!
After searching online today, I found a review for Frontline Spray on Stateline Tack.com where a customer used it on her horses, after her vet's approval and it worked great for keeping the ticks off of her horses. She said she just did a few sprays on each horse on their tail and legs. I went ahead and ordered some and will try it ASAP and let you know how it works.
I sure hope this is my answer, but in the meantime, please keep the ideas coming.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 7:28 pm:
Jennifer I don't know if you spray them daily, but I have used deep woods off and other human products on the horses tails, manes and legs when riding and it worked.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Mar 30, 2009 - 9:03 pm:
Jennifer the trouble would come from barn cats make sure it is cat friendly not all are!
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 12:08 am:
I'm in the Pine Barrens area of New Jersey, and the chiggers and ticks are a celebrated crop here. I use Equi-spot for the horses, and Frontline on the dog and cat. It works well on the dog and cat, and I believe it helps some with the horses...we use it on the recommended schedule. The best product on earth is Deet, and when the ticks and chiggers are really bad, we spray the horse's legs and tails and rub....I believe it's Coppertone, 'Bug and Sun' on their noses. Ticks are nothing to fool around with, they carry some really meeean stuff!
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 12:26 am:
I never saw ticks so bad on horses as I did when living in the foothills of CA around San Jose. I had never seen a tick on a horse except for once in VT when camp rented a horse from a dealer who had just gotten the horse from auction. The ticks were pin-head size to grape size . . . awful things, and I'd spend hours picking them off the horses. They gathered mostly under the flank and on the forehead and under the jaws, but I found them all over the horses.
The previous ranch manager told me that the thing that knocked the ticks off was injectible ivermectin, which was used for the cattle next door.
Once at a tack shop in VT, a woman who DrOve Percherons for sleigh rides and wagon rides came in asking for the old-fashioned WIPE . . . the oil-based WIPE that we used as kids. She said it was long-lasting and was the only thing that kept the flies off the horses as they worked all day in the hot sun. She said that it worked because of the concentration of DEET in it. Is the "old" WIPE available anymore? The thing that comes closest to smelling like it is the Pyrrhana (sp?) in the yellow bottle.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 8:05 am:
Hello All,
Lets me emphasize what Jennifer points out above: Equi-spot is a highly concentrated pyrethrin-class insecticide and we have had some local and systemic reactions to such products so they should be used with care. Frontline, fipronil, is one of the GABA receptor active insecticides. They are not related. There has been little research using fipronil in equines but I did come across this recent piece of research:
Vet Rec. 2007 Sep 8;161(10):335-8.
Comparative study of doramectin and fipronil in the treatment of equine chorioptic mange.
Rendle DI, Cottle HJ, Love S, Hughes KJ.
Division of Companion Animal Sciences, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden Road, Glasgow, UK.
In equids, chorioptic mange is a common dermatitis for which there are no licensed medications in the uk. Doramectin and fipronil are licensed for the control of ectoparasites in other species and were evaluated for the treatment of 17 cases of chorioptic mange in 13 equids. Equids were included if clinical findings were indicative of chorioptic mange, chorioptes mites were positively identified and concurrent disease that could affect response to disease was not evident. A random number table was used to allocate subjects to receive doramectin (group D, eight animals) or fipronil (group F, nine animals). Each of the horses in group D were given 0.3 mg/kg doramectin (Dectomax; Pfizer) on two occasions 14 days apart by subcutaneous injection. All limbs of the horses in group F were sprayed with fipronil 0.25 per cent solution (Frontline; Merial) to the level of the stifles and elbows. Both groups were examined on the day of treatment and 14 and 28 days later to assess the behavioural signs of pruritus and the severity of the dermatological lesions. Acetate tape impressions were collected from the distal limbs and the degree of mite infestation was assessed. By day 28 there were no behavioural signs of chorioptic mange in any of the animals, and there were significant reductions in the numbers of mites in both groups. However, there were no significant reductions in the mean lesion score in either group. There was no significant difference between the effectiveness of the two treatments.
Jennifer I don't know anyone who has used Frontline on horses, the cost usually stops most from experimenting. I would ditto the recommendation of DEET above, the article gives specifics.
DrO
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 9:23 am:
Thank you all so much for the tips and advice.
Dr. O brings up a point that I had concerns about with Equispot and similar products. When using these you are basically pouring concentrated poisons on your horse. I have used them, but I felt uncomfortable using them every 2 weeks like they say to. In the high tick and mosquito season, I would apply them once a month or less and still had 'ok' results.
I am going to try DEET products and see how it goes. I did order the Frontline Spray already, but if nothing else I can use it on my dogs.
Thanks again for your help, and thanks for posting the research article above, Dr. O.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 9:52 am:
I think that WIPE is still available.
Other sprays that claim to be effective against ticks will work too, but using an applicator mitt to apply the product to the legs and coat is much more effective than spraying, and more economical too.
Don't forget the tail and dock (spraying works effectively there).
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 10:47 am:
Lee, you had great success a couple of years ago with a tick treatment on your property, didn't you?
Perhaps this would be a good place to repost what you used, and how successful it was for you.
Erika
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 11:38 am:
Hi,
Not sure if this is mentioned, or even a good idea but I used to live in tick country - dawn dish washing liquid works great - and so does that smelly powdered sulfer. I would put the soap in a typical hose sprayer applicator - and spray it on. The ticks can fall out of the trees - so I sprayed them too - the sulfer I just dumped in my socks - dry - I never put it on my dogs though. i did put some powder - dia something...that you spread in gardens and such and it is labeled safe for pets.
Kathy
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 3:09 pm:
An all natural remedy - for those whose other critters will allow them to do this - is Guinea Hens.
My neighbor has a few dozen guineas, which mostly take care of his hay fields, but wander into mine and the other neighbors quite regurly, and they take care of all of those kinds of pests...
they are locked up at night, because of the coyotes, but have no trouble with the other animals, including owls and dogs and cats. my dogs have been known to chase them onto round bales occasionally (and then the dogs get up there too) but they eventually make it into a tree. once my dogs got into my neighbors hen house and killed one, but i didnt know about it till months later when they mentioned it to me in passing (i offered to pay but they wouldnt hear of it - go figure - it was my fault the dogs got out)(did i mention i have great neighbors?)
but i have absolutely zero problems with ticks and other pests. they dont go into my fenced yard where my dogs are (duh), but i have to have that sprayed regularly because of fire ants (since they managed to find a way into my house and on my bed i decided to go with the big guns, OW!).
But i am surrounded by fields and woods and deer and wild animals, and ticks are rare!
just a thought
Mel
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 7:34 pm:
I had heard about Guineas as a great solution. A lot of ppl here with farms have them and never have a tick problem. Unfortunately, our deed restrictions do not allow chickens or any sort of fowl.  Otherwise, I would be tempted to get a flock of them.
And yes, Mel, you do have great neighbors! Lucky you!
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 31, 2009 - 10:09 pm:
Ahem . . . Yes . . . Guinea Hens are great for getting ticks and fleas and grasshoppers and crickets . . . They nip the tips of the grasses off, thus, taking care of the ticks, BUT . . . anyone who has ever talked to me on the phone while the Guineas are around can tell you that THEY ARE NOISY . . . and mine are perfect PESTS . . . wanting to come into the house, terrorizing the dogs, welcoming visitors arriving in their cars, flying at my guests and bumping them on the back or legs, follow me way out in the pasture in the a.m. when I do chores . . .
Honestly, I'm glad that out of the six chicks I got last spring that the black snake took the majority of them and only two of them lived. They have torn apart all the screens on the upstairs's windows as they spend time on the roof of the house . . . lol
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 1, 2009 - 8:58 am:
LOL ok....... I am glad our deed restrictions don't allow them now.  Thanks for letting us all know how annoying they can be. I had no idea. LOL at them getting on your roof. I can only imagine! Thanks for the chuckle this morning!
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 1, 2009 - 9:33 am:
Too bad the snake got them Holly, have you ever priced guinea fowl at a market or restaurant? Yummy!
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Member:
karent
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 1, 2009 - 7:19 pm:
I don't have any guinea's, but have peacocks and 2 pet male turkeys. My turkeys follow us around like dogs, they are amazing.
Here is a picture of my grandson with the turkeys.
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Member:
mitch316
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 2, 2009 - 12:09 am:
Chris, my Grandma used to raise guineas and then would can them in BBQ sauce. Man, talk about good. I remember them being very noisy, but they were tolerated as "watch dogs" for the chickens, and any time a fox, weasel, or bobcat tried getting in the coop, the guineas would raise cain...man those were the good old days. But I don't think I could take the noise of them now. We have five boys, and the noise is just barely tolerable. Guineas would send them over the edge, ha.
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 2, 2009 - 9:02 am:
OH wow those turkeys are so cool! Beautiful too! Thanks for sharing.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 4, 2009 - 1:13 am:
Yes, Erika, a few years back, we had such a bad season, we couldn't even walk out in our pasture ( with the grass cut to a 4" height ). And forget the woods behind us. We called in the professionals, but they would charge between $6,000. and $7,000 a year.
So we went to Home Depot ( or Lowes...usually anywhere they carry home insecticide treatments ), and picked up "Ortho Max". Comes in a dark red bag. We ended up buying about a dozen. We mainly spread it around the perimeters of our paddocks and pasture and around our living and working areas. We also spread it on the trails on our property. There were two years when we spread the pasture because the horses came in with noses and fetlocks COVERED in ticks and chiggers - one horse gets a reaction ( bad hives and edema )to ticks AND chiggers. We kept them off the pasture ( a boon to their diets ) for a month and a couple of good rains. It seems to work best if applied early in the tick season - by knocking off a good part of the first generation. We find that we need to apply again ( when ticks begin to reappear ) in about 6 to 8 weeks, depending on how long the weather remains warm.
This doesn't mean that the horses don't need treating and careful monitering....as do the dog and cat. On trail rides ( off our property )we use Deep Woods Off and we treat our clothes with the stuff the hunters use.
We find that it works well enough to allow us to relax outdoors again without long sleeves and tucked in shirts and baling twine tying our ( treated ) jeans snugly around our boots.
We're not overly cautious, we've just had first hand experience with ugly tick bite infections resulting in emergency room visits in our first two years of living here.
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Member:
sondra
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 9:22 pm:
I am concerned about the idea of applying Frontline or a Deet product on a horse's knees and front legs, where your horse can easily get it on their nose, mouth, eyes! It is extremely toxic stuff which is the reason why the equine product Equi-Spot gives directions to apply to specific areas of the horse that are completely out of reach of their mucus membranes! (including genitals, too). In fact, you're supposed to wear gloves when applying these products.
I actually have a first-hand creepy experience with this. Once, after applying Frontline Plus to my dog, I got some on my hand because I petted her and played with her with my hands not long after I applied it. Well, can I tell you the taste of bitter poison was in my tastebuds for two days, (and no, I did not get it in my mouth...it apparently migrated dermally into my bloodstream). It freaked me out and still does.
So... if you're going to use EquiSpot or Frontline on your horses, I'd think pretty hard about applying these poisons to their legs, knees, chest, anywhere they could touch with their face.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 7:17 am:
Sondra,
DEET when applied as a spray is considered very safe and though the Am Academy of Pediatrics suggests you do not use it in infants younger than 2 months of age.
Frontline is a insect growth regulator and also considered safe to apply. But the instruction to recommend placing it out of reach of the animal. We did have a client who gave a puppy one complete topical dose orally and the dog became lethargic but recovered.
On the other hand Equi-spot is a very concentrated pyrethrin so would be considered quite toxic even if the horse contacts the topically applied material. It is also locally irritating which is why you avoid placing it where the horse can reach it.
DrO
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