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  Discussion on Reluctance to pick up back feet
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Member:
dwinans

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 6:42 pm:

Hi all,

My 13 yr old Thoroughbred gelding has been exhibiting some worrying symptoms lately.

At his last shoeing he gave the farrier some problems holding up his right back foot. He picks it up but then kind of loses balance and has to put it down very fast and hard. First thought was that he was just being naughty but he was good with his left back.

The vet took a quick look and said his lower back was extremely sore. I buted him for a few days and the muscle soreness was gone after a couple days off the bute but he still didn't want to hold his foot up.

I had the massage therapist out and she said he had moderate and extreme tightness in his lumbar area. Also when she pulled his tail to the left while walking he lost his balance pretty easy (although she said she has seen worse). When pulling to the right was ok. After her session she was able to pick up his back feet and hold them up.

When he walks while being lead he seems slightly uncoordinated. He is very sound under saddle and while jumping although he stumbles both behind and in front.

I've been working with him every day to try to get him to be ok for the next farrier visit but it doesn't seem to be working. The massage therapist gave me some stretches to do with the back legs but it can turn into a fight for me just to hold up the back leg.

I think my next plan is to bute him and see if I can pick them up more easily - that will tell if it's pain or misbehavior. He needs to be good for the farrier who is coming out in a few days. Maybe I should tranquilize him for the farrier if the bute doesn't work?

Does this sound like something I should be actively pursuing? I was recently laid off from my job and unfortunately, finances are a consideration right now.

Does this sound like EPSM or Wobblers? I don't think Wobblers as he doesn't fit the profile of a young horse or traumatic accident. EPSM doesn't really fit either as he is a T-bred.

Just curious if anybody has any ideas.

Thanks!
Dawn
Member:
gingin

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 6:56 pm:

Hello Dawn,
can you send a pic of his body from the side and the back on level ground where you can see the hooves very clearly? Let him stand naturally as he would normally and don't ask him to square up. I have seen this phenomenon over and over again, especially with TBs and the cases I have seen were due to balance issues in the hind hooves, particularly long toes!
Most of the TBs with these hoof issues responded within one or two trims and the tightness in the lumbar area was significantly improved.
This is just another thing to consider as part of your vet's evaluation.

Christine
Member:
dwinans

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 7:11 pm:

Hi Christine,

Thanks for your reply. He definitely has had issues with long toe and it's something my farrier is very aware of. He is currently on wedge pads behind which helped tremendously with the toe dragging and tripping.

Toward the end of his shoeing cycle (5-6 weeks) he starts tripping and after being shod he doesn't usually trip.

I just started using a different farrier at the last shoeing - I'll have to mention this to him. I don't think the previous farrier left the toe long but I'm not positive. Maybe he doesn't need the wedge pads any more. Thanks for the suggestion!

I will get a photo of him tomorrow and post it.

Thanks for your input!
Dawn
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 7:37 am:

I like the idea of trying the bute Dawn but what I really would like to know is the horse sound on lunge and can he pass a neurological exam. Though you say he is sound under saddle the stumbling and description of the walk have we wondering.
DrO
Member:
dwinans

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 5:26 pm:

After giving bute yesterday I tried to pick up his feet this morning with no improvement.

My vet happened to be at the barn so he gave him a full neurological exam which he passed with flying colors. So that's good news. The muscles are not sore and he is completely sound. He was completely balanced with the tail pull. Maybe that and the stumbling was a result of the lumbar soreness.

I have made the decision to inject his SI which is scheduled for tomorrow morning.

I guess there is a chance that his lumbar area hurt and even after it stopped hurting he is continuing the behavior just to be naughty but I thought I would play it safe and get it injected. Another thing that makes me think he is uncomfortable is that he digs a 2 ft hole in his savings and stands with his front feet in it.

I asked the vet about his foot balance/toe length and he said that one of his back feet is slightly out of balance but other than that he is happy with the wedge pads.

I'm not sure how long after the injection before I can expect improvement but I think I'll have some tranquilizer to give him in case he gives my farrier a hard time.

I think the alternative to the injection is to let it go and tranq him each time he is shod, hoping that the behavior corrects itself. I don't like that alternative at all so I think I'm doing the right thing.

Thanks for your input! It's so nice to know that I have a place to go to for completely objective advice in addition to my trainer's advice.

Dawn
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 9:34 pm:

I have one that sometimes cannot raise or hold up his right rear, especially in the morning if he has been standing around and the way he puts it down is just as you have described.

After he is ridden he can pick it up and hold it better than before being ridden

He has DJD in the hocks so I think that he gets stiff from inactivity.

He had also been in heel wedge shoes on the rear over time, which I was told put greater wear and tear on the hocks, but I don't know that to be a medical fact.

What he really needed all along was a well- balanced foot instead of the heel wedge, which we used because of an over-reach problem (finally eliminated by a good farrier) plus a minor ligament injury due to overworking in deep sand.

As part of the DJD in the hocks he also backs out of the trailer differently than when he was younger -- with a very wide base and going more slowly than he used to before the DJD.

He also tends to get back pain. And I think I will get his sacroiliac checked now that I read your post. Maybe he has a problem with that joint also and could benefit from it being injected.

Sometimes when a horse does not want to let the farrier have his foot I have found it is because the horse has not thrived very well due to the farrier work. In other words, the horse was trying to tell me something.

I would expect that the Bute would have helped your horse if DJD or hocks are a problem, but mention it just in case as I don't know how much you gave or how much time had passed after you gave it.

I have ridden with many friends whose horses had tripping problems that almost always was a result of unbalanced feet.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 7:53 am:

Dawn, from your post there is little evidence for what is a rather technically challenging procedure. Let us know how this works for you.
DrO
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 2:10 pm:

Hi Dawn,

I would first be inclined to block his front feet and try to pick up his back feet before committing to an SI injection. Of course I can't see your horse, but it sure sounds like a front foot lameness is a rule-out for this behavior, with the stumbling and the unwillingness to carry his weight there. I certainly have seen this kind of behavior in horses that were sore in front....
Member:
dwinans

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 2:43 pm:

Just arrived home from the clinic. The surgeon there took one look at him and said his SI is very asymetrical and definitely the injection is the way to go. One side was very high and the other so sunken that she wasn't able to get the needle completely in the joint. She got close though.

She said the prognosis is good and he should be completely healed up in the near future. She said it was an injury that caused the SI to shift up and then created scar tissue.

It's a classic case of hunters bump that Dr O's article talks about. Maybe this post should be moved to that section.

Thanks.
Dawn
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 3:15 pm:

Hi Dawn,

Please let us know how you get on, and whether this solves the problem. I have ridden several "bumpers" (and compete one now). It's ugly, but I have never seen an associated lameness. Maybe I've just been lucky.

- elk
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 6:01 pm:

Thanks for posting this information, Dawn. Please keep us informed about the progress.

I have one with a "Hunter's Bump" who is just kind of off and the other who I described that continues to go well, has DJD but also has taken a couple of bad falls that could have caused SI damage.

I think that such injuries can often go undiagnosed while causing the horse to not go well over a long period of time.
Member:
dwinans

Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 11:18 am:

Good morning,

After close to 2 weeks after the injection we are no closer to pick up his back feet. In fact, it's digressed from him picking them up but being unable to hold them up to him not picking them up at all.

His hunters bump is almost gone. The sunken side has raised up and is pretty much level with the other side. That was the goal of the injection so I guess that worked.

I'm thinking that the back feet has turned into a mental issue with him. I am going to sedate him for the farrier next week to get his back feet done. We don't want to fight with him and turn the back feet thing into a big issue.

The vet said that I had three options 1) another injection, 2) nuclear scan, 3) do nothing and see what happens. She couldn't give me any definite kind of recommendation.

I'm leaning toward doing nothing. I definitely am not in a position for a nuc scan just to see what's going on.

I'm going to start hacking lightly tonight. It will be interesting to see if he feels any different under saddle.
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