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  Discussion on Prognosis for Bowed tendon 2 10 weeks post injury
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Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 11:41 am:

Well I got another video of the mare walking around her pen at leisure, she don't move to far because of the grass. Do you guys think she looks more comfortable now, then in my previous videos? Obviously I'm not a very good judge of it and am probably looking at them with rainbow glasses on.

I took a couple pics of her leg too, She seems quite comfortable to me? Notice how her injured legs hoof looks so much more upright than the "good" leg

Here's her leg when standing with both legs weighted equally.



Here it is weighted fully, see how she looks "coon footed"



Here's her body condition...far from thin, but not horribly fat...she still has quite a bit of hair to shed


Video... The water in the wheel barrow is how much rain we had overnight!
https://s158.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=https://vid158.photobucket.com/albums/t90/scooter_098/002-2.flv&fs=1&os=1&ap=1
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 11:55 am:

I meant rose colored glasses..GEEES where did rainbow colored glasses come from.
Member:
canter

Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 6:02 pm:

...Considering the rain you had last night, perhaps rainbow colored glasses is a bit of wishful thinking??
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 8:02 am:

DianeE it is very hard to say anything about this video much less compare it another difficult to assess video, the localizing lameness article and past posts of mine explain why. Very subjectively I would say there "appears" to be a R fore lameness on two of the half dozen of so steps where you can see the whole horse.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 9:50 am:

Thanks Dr.O. I guess I worry too much about if she is progressing the way she should be

I've never dealt with such an injury, and don't know what to expect exaactly, my vet isn't a lot of help.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 11:27 am:

Diane, don't forget there will be a lot of "back and forth" with this type of injury; and that some days she will appear worse than others. I think all you can do is follow protocal and hope for the best.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 4:12 pm:

Lucky you to get some rain, Diane.

Having looked at your videos in the past, I thought that she looked better on the most recent one but I claim to be no expert. I do always worry about the foot opposite and diagonal from an injury almost as much as the injury itself.

You are the one who sees her way of going every day and know what is her "normal."

With some of our oldsters, their "normal" may be relatively comfortable for them while appearing to others as not completely sound in general for the average horse.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 5:17 pm:

Yes I guess I am the only one that can judge. She isn't sound by any means but hasn't been in quite a few years. I think she looks ALMOST as good as before the accident, but when seeing them daily it's hard to judge...her leg is ugly looking.

Her hooves really need something done to them also, I don't think they are helping matters any. The vet is coming for WNV shots Weds. I'll see what he thinks.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 8:57 pm:

Diane, In my humble opinion, any little thing that you can do to level up her feet, if you can avoid stressing one foot (no drugs will monitor the situation and indicate too much stress) would be to her benefit.
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 10:56 pm:

Diane, I like "rainbow-colored glasses." They sound even happier than regular old rose-colored ones! Yes, she does look a little off on the right fore, but I'd give her a big "thumbs up" on quality of life. She looks very happy.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 7:20 am:

Interesting you think she looks off on her R front. The L front is the injured leg. I suspect she has a rip roaring case of thrush going on in the R front.

I have been able to clean it quickly, and it stinks of thrush...and it's been very wet here. Her frog looks horrible on the R front too.

Dr.O. If I was to try to have the farrier trim the R front(good leg) would you suggest bute...or would it be better to leave her bute free so we can guage if she is uncomfortable on her bad leg?

When I clean her R front I have to do it very quickly and don't get a Very good job done, before she wants to put it down.

Thanks
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 10:11 am:

Diane, are you still keeping wraps on her legs all the time? I think it might be a good idea. She is probably still putting extra weight on the rt. front, and as you know, that will often make them sore, especially if there is even a small problem with the "good" leg/foot.

Of course, the problem could be you aren't out there feeding her carrots and waiting on her hand and foot 24/7 like you should be! I think she and my old mare are related somehow!

Remember too, that older animals, including humans, take longer to heal up, and even a young animal takes a long time to be sound after a tendon injury.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 11:14 pm:

Sara, I am no longer using the wraps...another thing that confuses me! If I understand right you don't want to overuse the wraps as supporting too much can be bad too...Don't ask me?

The vet is coming tomorrow he is very aware of her "normal way of going" so hopefully he can give me his opinion as to her progression, and hopefully some advice.

She wasn't (sound) before this happened so it's really hard to determine what's going on (for me anyway)

When I let her out in her grass pen she always rolls, she gets up and down remarkably well..actually impresses me. That keeps me quite hopeful
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 7:01 am:

Diane, I see the head rise when the right fore is placed on the ground more than when the left fore is placed. Is this not what you see? But to call it more than the "appearance" of lameness is taking the evaluation too far.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 7:34 am:

Thanks Dr.O. I appreciate your input, even tho it is a short video. I like to video her for future reference, but rarely have anyone here to help me.

I do see her lift her head once in the video, but do understand that it is hard to tell from the video.

I need to see if I can get hubby to help me on some level ground, he can' run the video for some reason...AND she wanders when he leads her so it's kind of hard to get a good video...

Hopefully when the vet comes today he will have time to evaluate her, he is just suppose to be doing WNV shots. He also forgot to order the intervet brand for me AGAIN! So for now I think I'm going to skip the mares vaccine as she tends to react to the FD WNV vaccine, and she doesn't need anymore problems!

Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 6:49 pm:

Well the vet came and his WNV vaccine he had at the office was dated, so he didn't want to use it. So he saved us for the last appointment and we(vet, I and hubby) had a few "drinks" instead

We sat on the back of the truck and Flash was in the yard grazing. He watched her while he was here...over an hour. I asked if he thought she was "lame". He said no she looks like a 30 yr. old mare that has arthritis...that is VERY happy and quality of life appears good...she took off when she saw him

He didn't think she was in pain at all, other than her old age "stuff"(which has been my biggest concern)

I DREAD the day I have to make the "decision" and was hoping I didn't have my rose colored glasses on. I do not want her to suffer. We both agree somehow I have to get more weight off her. He also said the tendon from just feeling it seemed to be healing normally and we are going to US her again at around 6 mos. post injury.

We agreed that not giving her the WNV shot was probably a good idea since she gets so stiff from it. SOO I guess she is doing WELL! She deinitley is thinking she is a princess anyway.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 9:03 pm:

You said it well, Diane.

Flash is 30 years old.

She has arthritis, but it is not the extreme crippling variety that horses sometimes get at a younger age.

While it is important to monitor her for issues that can be addressed, she's doing quite well, all things considered.

There is nothing reasonable that you can do to make her a youngster again.

Hats off to Flash and you for her stamina and for your great quality of care.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 12:23 am:

Sounds good, Diane! "ditto" to Vicki's comments. Ha, told you she was like my old girl and was "working you!" Good for her.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 5:59 am:

Thanks, I guess I just needed confirmation that she was OK. When the vet said think about it, he has seen much younger and horses her age way worse off then her. That brought it home, because I have seen horses way worse than her. Personally if I owned them I don't think they'd still be here.

As you know tho, being an owner of a horse you have had forever and is part of your family, sometimes you don't want to see it...that's what I wanted to confirm...I wasn't "blocking" out something.

This vet did help me make a decision to put one of my horses to sleep when we first moved to this place, so I do trust he would tell me if Flash was "suffering"

Thanks Again and of course there will be another poor video when I start worrying again!

Member:
lilo

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 11:18 am:

Go Flash! I am hoping you are somewhat reassured, Diane. Getting weight off her is another thing - I do believe the grazing is important for her mental health. I have kept my horses off pasture for a couple of months, and they hate me. Due to late storms the grass is very green, and I have to introduce them to grazing very carefully.
Good luck,
Lilo
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 7:03 pm:

I am very pleased to say the farrier was here today and Flash was able to stand through the whole procedure...drug free on both legs! Even put it willingly on the stand for rasping..no pulling away!

She didn't even try to put it down once! What a HUGE difference in her movement!!!!

IF I am able to get hubby to help me with a video tomorrow I will post it..she looks like a different horse!
Member:
lilo

Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 10:55 am:

Good news, Diane! Lilo
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 5:18 pm:

Dr.O. The old girl has me fretting again We are close to 90 days post injury.

I leave her out in a grass pen in the yard everyday... it's the only thing that keeps her semi-sane and not running circles in her "stall"

For a 30 yo she is still pretty feisty and when I leave her out of the gate she has a tizzy-fit. She calms down after a couple rounds.

My concern is rupture. The thing is since she had her hooves trimmed she's been doing this. NO heat or (worse) swelling has showed up. She remains content, and FEISTY! Since pasture soundness is my goal I don't know if I should make her quit it somehow? Her big 30 birthday is coming up soon and quality of life come into play also. I DO NOT want a rupture tho. I took my camera with me when I let her out today..can't show the one coming out of the gate (swear words were involved) because she gets so wound up. I have tried leading her out, but soon as I let her go she has to blow off some steam

So I figured at least you could see her trot anyway and canter

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated much!

Videos of the nut case (her backend always looks like that due to her arthritis)

LF is the injured one...surprisingly that's what lead she's on.

https://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t90/scooter_098/?action=view&current=007-1.flv

https://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t90/scooter_098/?action=view&current=005-1.flv

Picture of leg weighted...doesn't look so coon footed anymore

Member:
paul303

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 12:25 am:

Diane: She looks like she is getting around OK for a "30 to be year old". So, she's got a bowed tendon....you've got no "cross country" or "stadium jumping" scheduled, right? For cry'in out loud, YOU'VE got a knee with questionable durability, right? At nearly 30 years old, she's got a right to have aches and pains, right? All those videos you've posted.....she looks pretty content. And that's good. You're doing all right, Diane.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 5:43 am:

Thanks Lee, I think she looks real good for her age and various problems.
I know she is happy.

I just want to get Dr.O.'s opinion if I should make her stop her foolishness somehow.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 7:53 am:

Diane, I cannot get the videos to play and the installer for the required player error messages on my computer so I cannot see the videos. I think the recent positive changes suggest she is still healing and you should do all that is practical to keep her as quiet as practical. What does you veterinarian say about such behavior?
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 8:08 am:

Thanks Dr.O. Vet is on vacation. He has said all along to not let her fool me. She isn't on any anti inflammatories. Maybe it would be a good idea at this point to US again and check healing, he has to come out for WNV shots soon anyway.

She does not seem to have any ill effects from her out of the gate hissy fits. It is very nice to see her happy to move. I have been trying to follow the article, but her case is a bit different I think. One paragraph says horses that are turned out to pasture don't heal as well...does that mean right from the start?

Weird about the videos, I didn't think you needed an installer for photobucket. Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 5:11 pm:

2nd round after gate is open

I couldn't resist, it is kind of funny the way she carries on(kind of) If her leg wasn't broke.

This is what she's doing Dr.O.!


Member:
dres

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 5:29 pm:

Well this is stuff she should not be doing.. but what is a old girl gonna do.. ? I mean the horse Diane not you!<smirk>
She is 30 years young.. I say manage her the best you can and LOVE her then some more..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 6:03 pm:

Thanks Ann she is funny, gotta give her that. I have been thinking about this today. She really seems to be better lately. So I guess I will let her take care of herself....she hasn't been this spunky in years and all the sudden likes being brushed (she's always hated being brushed). I'm starting to think she's a bit senile.
Member:
erika

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 6:12 pm:

Diane, read again. Sounds to me like Dr. O, your own vet, and Ann all agree this should NOT be good for her.
Your vet said "don't let her fool you". If it were my horse, I would do what I could to keep her quiet. I would also see about a little less groceries, both for helping with weight, but also with extra energy.
I think you'd agree that you would hate for her to feel so good that she blows her recovery sky-high. Good luck!
Erika
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 6:39 pm:

I know Erika. That's why I'm fretting again. I'm going to try to let her out longer, I have a feeling that would quiet her down a bunch. She only "gets out" a couple hrs. a day. I have been contemplating leaving her in the small dry pen that is attached to her "stall" it has a little grass in it, and she would feel she was "out" all the time. I know if I stalled her 24/7 she would kill herself. I have only stalled her once and she jumped out the top of the dutch door and cleared it! Much younger then, but the same tendencies.

I'm thinking walking calmly grazing, has to be better than those explosions. According to weight tape the little porker has lost a few pounds...I just started weighing her last week. I have cut her hay in half.

I really am trying very hard to find a happy medium.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, May 9, 2009 - 9:43 am:

HMMM well that worked. I gave Flash just part of her breakfast hay, once finished I let her out and NO Tizzy Fit! It is cool and windy day.

I suppose out grazing quietly all day is better than explosions at this point. I only have a one strand hot wire up for her "yard pen" I don't think I would trust it through the week when I'm not home. I may try the dry pen that is pretty flat and has a little grazing during the day when I'm not here, and lock up at night....hope it works!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 7:41 am:

Sat. and Sun. I left Flash out in the "yard pen" first thing in the morning, she did not have her energy blow off

This morning since I have to go to work I decided to try her in the "dry pen" When I opened the gate she went right to her hay then realized she was "free" she did a brisk walk around the pen...2nd round a bit of a trot

She looks bright eyed and bushy tailed!(38 degrees) She has settled but is walking around quite a bit. I think the newness of the pen is the driving force right now. I am going to leave her out there I guess, and pray for the best! I can come home and check her later since I'm in town this week. Hope this works! Her leg is doing well the swelling has gone down more and I never detect any heat at this point.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 4:16 pm:

IT worked!!! She is just happy as can be out there, so now I can quit worrying about her and start worrying about Hanks hooves. 2 things at once is just too much!!!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 7:05 pm:

Dr.O. I have another stupid question.

Flash is doing very well I won't put one of my bad video's up again, but she is definitely moving much better (I think anyway) I notice now when she grazes she doesn't rush to get the right front moved so she doesn't have to fully weight the left. She is still fat but it is coming off slowly.

My stupid question is will there always be a bowed appearance to her leg? I did ask the vet and he said after it is "healed" there will just be a knot there? Not sure what he meant by that.

It is slowly changing appearance
Fully loaded



Not fully loaded



It would seem her fetlock doesn't appear to be DrOpped so bad anymore either and the "coon footed" look has disappeared

Body condition..she is shedding off nicely and is in rip roaring heat..she usually comes in heat for a day or 2 every spring, but nothing like this. Very glad her and Sam are not together!



THANKS
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 7:24 pm:

Dr.O. Flash has made it to day 105, that old girl continues to amaze me.

I have been letting her out in the dry pen or yard during the day, in her stall/paddock at night.. Sometimes Hank goes out with her and she enjoys the company. I do not let her out if it is muddy and slick. She hasn't needed any bute in quite a few weeks. She is calm and controlled when out, as long as she hasn't been locked up for awhile because of rain and mud.

I just went and re read the article and it seems we have made it to the 2nd examination date.

As far as physical symptoms all is well No heat, swelling, does not flinch at all upon palpation. She is moving very well (I think) slick, shiny, fat and happy.

I have been tempted to let her out 24/7 in the dry pen with a little grass that is attached to her "stall". How do I determine when she is ready for this???

According to the rehab article it is time for another ultra sound. Since "pasture sound" is my goal is it necessary? I do not want to rush anything, maybe the US would help determine if she is healing well or are physical symptoms enough to go by in this case?


Flash leg 105 days



Thanks
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 7:57 pm:

you want pasture sound... do you want to pay for another ultrasound? .. I think IF this were my old mare , i would just add a few more weeks to her healing and then start letting her have more freedom.. this way you save yourself a vet call / bill and you have added more good healing time in as well.. she is doing so well, let her mend / strengthen longer..
Just my two cents..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 9:48 pm:

Thanks Ann you have been a big help through this

I have no problem with the cost of an US if it would help determine her healing at this point. I think it is probably one of the cheapest things I've had done involving a vet $85 with the call out.

I do want to be careful as to not to rush it, but if she is ready what the hay I can save enough on shavings to pay for the US
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 11:31 pm:

holly cow.. $85. is it.. Dang , i spent at least $210 a US per visit with Danni... and that was a lot of visits..

You will do the right thing by her.. i am sure of that..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 6:45 am:

The price speaks of the quality
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 7:21 am:

Diane, I always prefer to err on the side of caution. She seems content from what you say in your post so I'd leave her be for a while longer, just to be sure. So glad she is healing so well!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 8:27 am:

Diane, without an ultrasound you should match your horses history and clinical signs with the table and follow the exercise recommendations.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 9:26 pm:

Glad that she appears to be doing well, Diane.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 8:16 am:

Thanks Vicki Dr.O. I am not really sure how to follow the exercise program since she isn't ridden

I think I will have her US in the next few weeks and see how things are going. In the meantime will keep doing what I've been doing...Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 3, 2009 - 4:00 pm:

Dr.O. Flash had another ultrasound she is a week short of 4 mos. post injury.

The vet said her lesion was filled in with collagen, but there is no fiber pattern yet. Instead of a black hole it was gray. Still some inflamation in the tendon sheath. He was actually surprised it looked so well!

He said she was moving great(for her) and for an old girl was healing remarkably well.

He also said since there is little to no structured fiber pattern yet (is that normal)? that the structure is still very weak. He said quiet turnout during the day at this point is ok, like I have been doing... she is locked up at night.

Does all of this sound like she is healing normally?

Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 3, 2009 - 4:37 pm:

I forgot he also said he could see a halo around the lesion...I didn't ask what that meant, but from his reaction it seemed good????
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 9:48 am:

It sounds like your veterinarian thinks it is healing well Diane and I don't see any information to counter that thought.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 9:50 pm:

Glad to hear this, Diane. Sounds good.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 9:07 pm:

This cute little girl never ceases to amaze me, she is doing so well, I have regained hope for her.

She just turned 30 this month and she got a big old carrot! She is moving very well. I turn her out in the yard for a few hours a day so she will keep her sanity and it has been working. She is so shiny and healthy looking for an old girl.

When it dries up I am going to let her out in the dry pen for the daytime hours. She has lost weight, her leg still has the "bowed" look I still don't know if that ever goes away???
Her coon footed look has gone away and her fetlock doesn't seem "DrOpped" anymore.

Today is her birthday and 4mos. post injury.
Here is a pic of her leg


And body weight



And I am just cute for an old lady pic

Member:
dres

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 9:25 pm:

ahhh she IS very cute..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 11:40 pm:

Aaahhh....
Member:
canter

Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 9:57 am:

Sweet ole girl! Glad she's doing well, Diane.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 10:47 am:

Very cute!! I am so glad things are going well for Flash! Lilo
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 11:50 am:

Go Flash ! She looks great Diane
I hope I hold up that well!!
L
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 9:53 pm:

Happy Birthday Flash! Looking good. Luv that last pic especially.
Member:
frances

Posted on Monday, Jun 15, 2009 - 4:19 am:

She looks so lovable - and really well (phtu phtu)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Jul 20, 2009 - 4:53 pm:

While the vet had the ultra sound machine here I figured I might as well have Flash done to see how things were going. More good news the black hole is now solid, I didn't think to ask about fiber patterns...I was so happy to see that hole filled in. Vet said it is much stronger now and turnout is alright with the boys, I do lock her in her own pen at night...those boys get a little silly sometimes and I don't want her involved in that She is at 5mos + a week post injury. Vet said since she wasn't getting ridden or worked turnout is fine unless it gets slippery! YAHOOOO
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, Jul 20, 2009 - 5:44 pm:


YAY
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 3:02 pm:

I wanted to finish this up, sometimes I read threads and always wonder how they turn out. This one has a happy ending. Flash is now on 24/7 turnout with the boys when it isn't muddy out, learned my lesson on that as that is how this all started a simple slip in the mud.

Her leg looks very good and she is as sound as Flash gets..she is going up and down the hills fine, canters, trots,spooks prances and bucks

The first pic in the collage is from tonight 6.5 mos. post injury. She spent the summer in a pen I made in the yard to keep her from going stir crazy.
The last 3 are from March about a month after it happened...that fetlock DrOp has really improved, I was very worried about her completely blowing that out. Thanks for all your support and advice!


Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 7:27 pm:

Good news, Diane! Now, if you can just get ol' Hank whipped into shape....are you listening Hank?!
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 2:37 am:

I love happy endings, Diane. So glad Flash is back to her old self!
Member:
lilo

Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 5:49 am:

Great news, and thanks for the series of photos. That way one does not have to scroll up to the beginning of the thread.
Go Flash!
Lilo
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 6:18 am:

Thanks for sharing this happy news, Diane.

Flash is amazing.
Member:
frances

Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 10:28 am:

Wow much improved. Congratulations.
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