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Discussion on Levi's problems again
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 9:16 pm:
Dr. O, As usual, we have the problem with who knows what around here in the vet world/farrier world.
Levi has been doing wonderful all winter. We even went barefoot for the past 4 or 5 trims. I got the feeling that his toe was getting long. But of course, everyone knows better than me.
I just noticed last week that his white line was deteriorating, so dug at it, dumped in some thrush buster, and tried to determine if I should move up his trimming appt.
My old farrier was here to do my other horse, so I asked him to look at Levi's white line. He proceeded to nip off the edge, and to my horror, got his rasp out and started rasping the sole of his foot.
I got him to stop, telling him that the other farrier was leaving a roll of sole on the bottom to keep him barefoot.
Well the next day his was very lame.
I took him to South Dakota today, they did digital x-ray (which is awesome and new to them). He has 5cm of sole under the coffin bone (we had gotten him to grow 13cm, it is still a bit rotated (19/22) if that makes any sense to you and a palmer angle of 8. Compared to the x-ray of 11/08 which was 18/21 and palmer angle of 8.
He dug out the white line that was soft, not black, just white and chalky, but said that it had hit bottom, and did not have any roots to it, so he felt that was the end of it.
The farrier them poured a poly mesh urathane sole, set his shoe back, nipped off a considerable amount of toe, and stuffed some keratox in the gap that the white line had left out.
He was definately moving better. but he still has a digital pulse that is rather strong tonight.
they did remove the hoof wall, but filled it with the keratox. We have obviously done all of the above in treating Levi, and the WLD came back all the time.
My questions are:
1. Is it normal for him to have the raised digital pulse for a while until his sole grows back?
2. I gave him a gm of bute ( he weighed in at 1275 lbs. YIKES) Diet again. Should I do this for a few days?
3. They said to go ahead an ride him on soft surface, as soon as he seems to be feeling better? does this sound ok to you?
I know that you have seen what we have gone through, and I wish I had someone else to turn to, but alas, I do not. I had another vet out last week to look at his foot, give shots, and he said, its nothing to worry about, just the wet weather.
so there you go.
thanks
suz
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 11:34 pm:
Aw, Susan, I sure hope this doesn't turn into another "big deal" with Levi! Poor guy (and you.)
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 7:22 am:
Hello Susan,
Those are mm of sole and I see you still have some mild degree of rotation. Taking your questions in order:
1) No if the appliance prevents further bruising the pulse will subside as the horse becomes sound.
2) I would use it to effect, increasing dose while lame reducing dosage when improved. The article on phenylbute discusses proper dosages.
3) I think it may be possible that the appliance will provide enough protection to allow work before the sole grows back out. But I would not do it until sound off of bute.
DrO
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 11:32 am:
Dr. O, I called the farrier and the vet, the vet has not yet called back, but the farrier said that because his sole is so thin, he probably has inflammation from possibly bruising his sole walking on thin soles, and that the pulse should decrease as the inflammation goes down. Do you agree?
thanks
Hey Sara, thanks, and I sure hope that we are not going through this again. Well, at least I had a few months over the winter that I was not pre-occupied with Levi's feet 
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 5:38 pm:
Susan my farrier did not make it out til yesterday but I did ask him about Levi. He said he would only clean out the white stuff in toe area and use whatever you have before to treat.Also said he can always tell when pasture have water turned on or rains come it always show in the toe.In four years with this farrier he hardly ever touches the soul on any of mine.So sorry this happened again to both you and Levi!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 5:51 pm:
Susan, as you know Hank has thin sloes that bruise easily also, it will bring his DP up. Just be careful with his weight, seems the more weight on those compromised hooves the more prone they are to a bout of founder. I hope you are able to get him back to "normal" soon.
Good Luck
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 8:50 pm:
You know, when these disheartening times come up, it is so nice to know there is support out there from all of you.
thanks for your encouragement.
suz & Levi
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 7:04 am:
Hello Susan,
Not examining the horse I really am in no position to make a diagnosis. I think the history and exam findings you describe make excessive trimming followed by bruising likely. If that is the diagnosis, the treatment plan is reasonable.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 12:21 pm:
Susan,
I have had similar situations turn into an abscess after the bruising with soft feet due to the wet weather.
My farrier had me soak the foot for a few minutes daily 2 - 3 days in a row with about 1/2 - 1 tsp of Boric Acid added to the water to harden the foot but I recall him since saying that a paste/poultice can be made rather than soaking using a little boric acid and water.
You can also buy such poultices ready made.
If such a problem persists and conditions are alternating wet and dry for the horse sometimes it is necessary to keep them out of the wet for a while if possible.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 1:33 pm:
There are some good prepared hoof hardners on the market, also; the kind you paint on the sole. I have one mare who tends to get a little sore now and then and have had good luck with these. Also, I've been told that clorox will harden the soles, but it seems to me it might be a little harsh.
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 2:38 pm:
Hi All, today his pulse is there but not throbbing. I did give him 1 gm bute last night again.
The farrier put a mesh + poured some equithane hard stuff into his sole and a regular shoe. He then packed the dug out area with Keratox. This is the treatment we are after for now.
I am sure from my years of experience with this that this farrier who has been so good at keeping Levi sound, let his toe get too long as well. They all like to blame others, but never stand up when it could be their fault. Levi needs to be in a stubby upright foot, and he seemed to be more sloped on his last two trims. The white line was also wide, and the farrier said that was normal when I questioned him. So I am at their mercy.
As far as soaking, I worry with the WLD about excessive moisture, so as we speak, he is in his corrective sole prep, + 2 baby diapers + a Cavalla Boot. That should keep his little footsies dry and protected from rocks and boo boo's
I take this all off at night so it doesn't get too warm and cozy in there. I will give one more bute tonight, and see how he is tomorrow.
I had another experience with the rasping off the sole with another farrier, but I can't remember how long it took for him to be comfortable again.
Diane, you and I should work together on a book on hoof ailments, eh?
At least it is drying out around here a bit.
suz
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 1:26 pm:
It is Sunday, and the shoe was put on Tuesday. He really cut his toe back, so I was wondering if that would contribute to a still warm foot. He is not super lame, but he is definately off. The pulse is stronger than the other feet.
If he had a sole bruise, would that packing make it more uncomfortable since there is constant pressure on his sole now, and that might be causing the warm foot.
Should I just give it some time to grow, and not worry, or be more pro-active?
I know that without seeing the horse it is hard to know, but what would you all do if it was your horse?
If the farrier/vet was close by, I would have them look, but it is a 2 hour drive away?
He is eating (when would Levi not eat), and walking around, rolling in the mud etc. So he is definately not one stepping it, like I would expect to see if an abscess were brewing. It is just my gut saying his foot is not right.
thanks
suz
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 2:37 pm:
Susan, I can only speak from my experience, so may not apply to Levi.
A couple times, the equipak did make thin soled Hank sore, and until I removed it he stayed that way. We figured it was too much pressure on his thin soles. We have finally figured out when we use this stuff to just put a light layer from the tip of the frog forward. With his rotation and thin soles the pressure of the equipak did make him sore...VERY sore once.
Could you call the farrier or vet and get their opinion, I removed the equipak once myself...tho not an easy task, especially if he has the mesh.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 18, 2009 - 6:56 am:
Susan you have to treat this like your horse not my horse. If you remain worried there is something going wrong or not addressed you must pursue it, I only know what you tell me and how am I to know you are not wrong?
On the other hand you have described a very proactive treatment for a horse cut too short and it is way to early to assess that this is not working. I have had horses cut too short stay sore for weeks until enough sole is grown back for soundness. I always look at the direction the lameness is going to judge treatment: is it improving?
DrO
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 7:34 pm:
Levi seems to be walking around normal, have not really taken him out at all, we have been busy at the kennel.
His foot still remains warm, and he has a pulse that I can feel, not really throbbing. But then I felt my other horses and they have a pulse as well. I thought you could not really feel a pulse in the pastern unless they were having a problem?
I need to take him out and walk him on a hard surface. I hope that the warmth is not the wld cooking inside his foot. Can't really see what is going on at this time, as they packed the part that was dug out with keratox.
Just wondering if I should leave the equipack in till his next trim or try to have it removed and see if the heat subsides?
any one have an opinion?
thanks
suz
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 9:16 pm:
Can't tell you what to do Susan, other than to commiserate. .
I'm pretty sure WLD doesn't cause a pulse or heat in the hoof, unless something secondary to it is going on...abscess, founder ect. Heat isn't good I wouldn't think. Dr.O. always tells me to keep the pulse "in it's place" I do know Hanks pulses and can usually tell if something is brewing. All my horses get them when the temp. warms up a bit for awhile it seems. The "quiet barely detectable" pulses don't concern me usually. It's the KA-booming ones that do.
Have you called the vet or farrier and asked their opinion?
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