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Discussion on Snakes are out....How to prevent snake bites
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Member:
judyhens
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:36 am:
We have found two snakes in the barn area today. We think one was a copperhead. Not sure about the other one. A friend put her hand on it at night...it was on the top of the stall door. Gone when she put the light on. Anyway....how can we prevent a snake from biting our horses or foals? We don't have wood piles. We do have hay bales in the barn. I have heard that sulfur would work, encircling the stable area. However, I don't want to trap them within the area. Any other thoughts????? We rarely see snakes here. Two in one day is unheard of. Any help would be appreciated.
Judy
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 7:16 am:
If you find out let me know!! Hay bales do seem to attract snakes, I think they like the roughness to shed their skin. The only time I saw a rattlesnake it was on a hay bale. Last year we had a terrible snake year. I flipped a bale over on the ground and there was a snake under it! There was a snake in my hay (that I saw) Obviously there must have been MANY more, as all winter I found (not kidding) at least 50 snake skins on my bales in different places.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 8:10 am:
I have been brought a lot of snakes that "look like copperheads" to ID but instead there were a lot of dead harmless snakes. On the other hand we live in a thickly wooded area and copperheads are common in our woods.
Copperheads are reclusive timid snakes that do not like to be around a lot of human activity. They are very well camouflaged so about the only time we actually see one is crossing the driveway in front of the house or while cleaning up a old wood pile, there favorite haunt in my experience.
Judy your first step is to learn to positively identify your common local snakes. I would almost guarantee that the snake on top of the door was a rat snake, common in barns and really don't mind human activity as long as it is not directed at them. The main deal with a copperhead from a distance is he tends to be a short fattish snake with a typical vipers "spade" shaped head./ As you get closer he has vertically slitted eyes. His markings are unique but many confuse banded water snakes and the markings of red rat snakes for copperheads. Next it is important to realize copperhead bites are almost never life threatening and sometimes can be rather minor problems. We often see dogs bit on the muzzle and other than some steroid/penicillin responsive swelling and pain very little serious consequences. I have read this is because copperheads control the amount of envenomation and during defence they tend not to release lots of venom unless antagonized.
DrO
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 8:33 am:
Judy,
How is your friend doing, my husband would have had a heart attack putting his hand on a snake in the dark. ME too.
I wonder if certian breeds of dogs will go after them? We seem to have a killer "watch cat" but don't know if he'd tackle a snake!
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Member:
judyhens
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 10:28 am:
Thanks for your responses! I am very, very comforted to know that, even if a copperhead did bite a horse, chances are that the horse would survive. I worried all last night! I do think that we need to be better at identifying snakes. My husband is actually pretty good and was the one who said the snake in the hay was a copperhead. The one on the top of the half door was never seen. Our live-in trainer and his family believe all snakes should be killed instantly. Walter sort of has the philosophy that some snakes are harmless and might even help re: mice and likes to let those live. - On the other hand, I have high blood pressure just THINKING about snakes....
We do have free range chickens that roam close to the barn. Could a rat snake be thinking about getting eggs? Maybe the chickens attract them?
Re: dogs and cats. We have one ancient barn cat (late teens we think...)who has been here many years before we moved in. I think his hunting days are over...he is into "I want to be loved and scratched during retirement" days. My two dogs, one an Old English Sheepdog and one a Golden, are hopeless. They just like to play. They definitely have a live and let live philosophy...even letting the tiny little chicks jump around happily with no problem.
Angie, my friend, who is here for the weekend, is fine this morning - has recovered from "shock". - At least I think she has....She is out gathering eggs at the moment! Thanks for asking!
Blessings,
Judy
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:04 am:
I think snakes like hay bales because they hold the warmth. Snakes will get under rocks or in cravaces for the same reason. Remember, they are cold blooded animals and need warmth from outside sources as they can't produce any on their own.
Most snakes are harmless and most are benificial. I for one prefer the snakes to the rats and mice I would have otherwise. Not only do rodents get into your grain and make a mess, they carry plague and hunta virus, both of which can be deadly.
Most snakes dislike people and any commotion and will flee if they feel the ground movement you make when you walk or smell you coming. When you see a snake if you just stand still, it will probably move away. In the cool mornings, however, they are very slow to move; they can't move fast unless they are warm.
Like Dr.O. says, learn to identify your snakes and learn a little about them. Most of them are good to have around.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
Chickens will go after snakes if there are chicks esp. We have large bull snakes since they eat rattlers I cheer when I find them.Also keep a pointed snake wacker handy just incase the rattlers show and they do!We had a terrible mouse problem so I imported bull snakes one year from the pet store there are lots now! Perhaps one more dog like Jack Russel friend has a couple and no vermin survives their onslaught!
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 1:52 pm:
The cure-all for snakes can be found in Texas. If you have friends or contacts there, then they may be able to help you obtain this item while supplies last. This came from a friend last night, and after seeing the Snake post this morning, I know that the timing was ordained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4rU-rFn6vY
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 2:21 pm:
Holly that was hilarious, who would have thought a rabbit would do that! Now I am going to have nightmares of tree climbing snakes. People always tell me they can't climb trees. I knew better as I have seen them in trees. UGGH that just freaks me out that they can climb that well...I want that bunny!! Can you tell I have snake phobia
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 2:48 pm:
Wow, what a wild & wacky wabbit! We have wa..um rabbits here nibbling on clover every evening. I always know when they are out, Ranger, our Choco Lab, rests his jowels on the window sill, and intently watches them.
Now I have another reason to make sure the dogs don't go after them.
Wish I hadn't saw the part where the snake went up in the tree...oh oh.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 3:29 pm:
What a great and amusing film of the rabbit chasing the snake.
Don't you wonder whether that rabbit had a nest of youngsters in the vicinity?
I agree with Sara about snakes and do not allow them to be interfered with on my property.
Where snakes and other natural predators are killed, much greater rodent problems exist.
Diane,
Some snakes' diet includes birds, eggs, and young squirrels and they get to them by climbing not only trees but barn interiors.
In my barn one day a mother flying squirrel was trying to remove babies from out of a nest up above supporting rafters. She got two of them out and put them on the ground but I listened to the remainder protesting as they were consumed by a rather large rat snake. It was not possible for me to interfere with what was happening had I decided to attempt to do so.
Snakes can climb up buildings quite well and I have heard of large rat snakes sitting above a doorway, which is not so bad unless they fall on you as you walk under, which happened to someone I know, so don't expect to see snakes only on the ground.
I think that part of the fear of snakes is because they tend to surprise us with their presence when we are not expecting them.
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Member:
mitch316
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 5:01 pm:
Hello all, thought I would weigh in on this topic because I spent a lot of money learning about them. As I said in another post around here (forgot which one), most snakes do more good around a barn than bad, but if you absolutely cannot bear having them there, here are a few tips...some have already been suggested, but some not.
Moth balls around the perimeter and in those cracks and eaves will repel most. Do not put them so your horse can get them, as they are poison. You also stand a pretty good chance of keeping some in as well.
You cannot beat a cat for pest control, including snakes. (BTW if you live close to Jackson County Kentucky, I have five that will be ready to go this Wed.)
never heard of a rabbit doing that...sure she had a nest nearby or was rabid (happens more than you think)...as a matter of fact, we feed rabbits to our larger ones.
Speaking of rabies, and getting off topic, there was a horse in Lexington that tested positive last week, so if you live in Kentucky they are about to lawfully suggest that they are vaccinated with their coggins.
I will try to post some pics of some snakes you are likely to see. Chickens, btw, are snake magnets. Not just chicken snakes, rat snakes, or bull snakes, but mostly all of them. They like eggs, ya know. And baby chicks are what we feed for treats...can't give them mice all the time, as they will build up a vitamin deficiency.
Dr. O is right about copperheads, and there are a few copy cats in the color. Their bites are seldom fatal, with less than 1% needing antivenin in humans.
And again, most snakes will flee if given a chance. The exception to that would be cottonmouths and some species of rattlers guarding their eggs. That is in the us, of course. Mambas, tigersnakes, and a few cobras will literally stalk you and then bite you; not out of meanness but they are very territorial.
Pigs will also keep snakes out of your barns, but since horses and pigs seem to hate each other, most of us here do not have that option.
When walking in snake territory, make as much foot noise as possible, and even stomp every once in a while, and most will move. If you see a snake, it is probably just as startled as you, you would be surprised at how many you walk past and never know.
Here is snakes flight/fight pattern:
1. They will freeze and not move. Some will even play dead (hognosed and some king snakes). They will stay in this frozen position as long as possible.
2. They will attempt to flee. This can be deceiving, because they do it so slowly. After coiling, and attempting to frighten you by hissing, dry striking the air, or rattling, they will slowly uncoil in a reverse manner. Once completely straight, they will jet like a bullet in the other direction.
3. Fight. This is their last resort, and even non poison varieties will bite you. They will usually strike once, and then turn and run in such a quick motion, it will stun you. Rattlesnakes will do this 1-3 times and then run. They uses very little venom in defense as it is taxing and energy consuming to produce, and takes a long time as well. They would much rather use it on prey.Some species will not use venom at all unless you keep goading it on.
As another note, moth balls will repel some bugs (like lice, mosquitoes (in theory) and termites.
I'll try to post the pics tonight, or at least a good web site to go to. A a matter of fact, here is a good research site for all reptiles: www.reptilechannel.com. I used it a lot in my research, and learning to care for my more exotic species.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 7:25 pm:
Jesse when I was younger had an indigo snake Mom never came in my room  and a banty mom with chicks will take on anything including a too interested horse. Liked the link a lot!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 7:48 pm:
O.K. I owe Jos a big apology. She told me she'd seen a rabbit chasing a snake and I accused her of having too many margaritas! I hope she sees this thread.
Jesse, how about hemp rope? My dad always told me he'd put it around his tent when camping in TX as snakes wouldn't cross it.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 8:04 pm:
All of you: try my coffee which makes me cope with US wild[and other] life!
1 part Tequila
1 part Coffeeliquor
1 part cold coffee[optional] refrigerate
crush icecubes
put refrigerated mix plus coffeeicecream in blender pour over icecubes and snakes will seem friendly neighbours after having a cup or so!
Jos
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 9:18 pm:
  
I'll drink to that..!
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
judyhens
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 10:36 pm:
Ok. I am in Texas. So....where do I order one of those rabbits????? Tooooooo funny!!!! Thanks guys!
Judy
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 12:28 am:
My wild rabbits just eat my vegetable garden to bits! How can I train them to chase snakes?
I have a "free" $550.00 barn cat that spends her days commuting from the couch to the chair to the chaise on the deck. After seeing that video, I just KNOW I'll do better with the wild rabbits.
Anyone know any rabbit ranglers???
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 9:23 am:
Maybe that's the rabbit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail....
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:13 am:
Where do I order one of Jos's "coping drinks"?
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:49 am:
If you come to Sara's place in august I could make you a few?
I guess the rabbits will need a coffee to if they have to tackle Texan snakes Judy?
Jos
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 6:44 pm:
One day, I came in to work and with my mental fog still clearing went to grab my saddle off the rack. Suddenly, the braided "rein" in my hand started writhing! I shrieked and leaped backward, landing in a muttering heap in the middle of the tackroom floor. The "pranksters" had a great laugh, and I woke up in a hurry 
Venomous snakes around these parts have the courtesy to rattle, and given half a chance will steer clear of creatures too big to eat. I had a Siamese cat that was murder on all kinds of snakes. He survived a serious bout of rattlesnake poisoning, and kept right on hunting snakes. He died of old age, by the way.
Cindy, how did you get the bull snakes? That's a great idea. I'd like to get king snakes, because they are so easy to recognize, and they prey on rattlers. When one moves in, it tends to stay around, but I haven't seen any for a long while.
Jesse, thank you for all of that interesting and useful information. By the way, one of my horses adopted a small piglet. He protected her from the dogs by letting her hang out directly under his belly. When he was eating hay, he'd push little bunches of leafy alfalfa in her direction. She was his pet, and he was also the "boss" of the herd. I guess he got to do whatever he wanted, including having a pet pig.
I agree with everyone here who think that having snakes around is beneficial. Most are not dangerous to us, and help keep the rodents at bay. At first, they gave me the creeps, but after living around them for years, I've gotten to think of seeing a bull snake or a king snake as good luck. I've seen a lot of rattle snakes, and have a horse, cat, and dog bitten. They all survived without lasting harm. Adult snakes withhold their venom most of the time, and only tag a warning with a "dry" bite. I tend to believe that the dog and cat probably asked for trouble from the snake. The horse, who knows?
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 7:13 pm:
I am confident that Jos's "coping drinks" . . . several of them . . . will guarantee a chance of seeing many things . . . whacky rabbits among them . . .
Make mine straight, strong, hot, black coffee . . . hold the liquor and the Jose Cuervo . . . some one has to stay aware enough to catch the bunnies when they appear.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:02 pm:
I'll drink coffee with Holly. Then she and I can stay up to work out what to tell you the rabbits did, and make it convincing. Enough of Jos's "brown courage" and you all may be doing the snakie-pokey I think!
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Member:
mitch316
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:28 pm:
Sara, I have not heard of hemp rope as being a snake deterrent, but it might since it gives off a "different" odor. May have to experiment with that to see. May be one of those "hang bags of water in the door to keep out flies" type of theories. Seems like if bags of water hanging in barn doors repelled flies, we wouldn't be spending billions each year on all those fancy sprays and stuff.
One other interesting fact about snakes: almost all wild species carry Salmonella naturally on their skin. Actually this is the case with most reptiles, but snakes especially. You can "sanitize" them and keep them in a cage all by themselves and will test positive again a couple of weeks later. Never heard a good theory as to why, or why the bacteria does not harm them. I am sure there are scientists somewhere getting millions of government dollars to study it though. So in playing with your reptiles, even the dead ones you are removing, wash your hands with soap, or even better an alcohol based hand sanitizer.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 11:35 am:
Susie, the bull snakes are in a local pet store that specializes in reptiles. My oldest wanted a snake so bad saved his $$ picked out a bull snake got it home, in it's cage went to interact with new pet which promptly struck at his fingers son leaped back about 10 ft and the snake became mom's! Now out here mother nature provides, we had 5 bull snakes in the backyard it was a party and then some!
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 3:55 pm:
Thanks, Cindy
Good to know we don't just have to wait and hope for friendly snakes.
Susie
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