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  Discussion on IR/Equine Cushings and etc
Author Message
New Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 9:06 am:

I have read ( and re-read) all the information in "Horse Advice" on this topic. This has been incredibly helpful!! I have a horse (18 years old) with a very very long coat in winter, which sheds out completely, in March-April, but his summer coat for the last 2 years is longer than ever before, about 1" long. Is this indicative of Cushing's? I have followed the web advice about cutting back on diet and carbs, had my hay tested, cut back on pasture, and he has gone from a BCS of 8 to about a 6 since January. He has high insulin levels, but not high glucose levels (at last testing in January) He was on a T of Thyrol-L per day, and I have cut him back to 2t during this time.
Last summer he shed twice - once in March and again in June, and by June had a "normal" summer coat.
HIs feet are also not the best - my other 3 horses have hard and shiny feet, while his are dull with lots of cracks. They were not this way while he was younger. I do my own trimming - he is not shod any longer. He is ridden 3-4 times per week.

So - are these indicators of Cushing's disease - the brittle feet and the long summer coat? Do you suggest I test him for Cushing's, or just keep handling the situation as I am doing?

I really appreciate this website and all its information!
Member:
shirl

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 2:59 pm:

Nancy,
How is his water intake? Does he drink excessive amounts and does he urinate a lot? Those are signs of Cushings also.
If he has high insulin he may be Insulin Resistant, but Dr. O. will chime in and give you more info. Blood tests for Cushings might be in order. Good luck.

Shirl
New Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 3:29 pm:

Shirley, he is a big guy who has always been a big water drinker, more than most horses that I have owned; I have had him since he was 5 yo. Maybe he is drinking slightly more, but he still will not urinate in his stall unless 8-10 hours go by (he would prefer to urinate in the pasture), so his stall is always the driest of my 4 horses. So not much evidence in that department; it may be happening or it may not be. I keep my horses in during the day and turn them out at night only.
I have recently had his feet x-rayed, and he had no rotation in January when I found out that he was IR.
Member:
shirl

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 8:05 pm:

Nancy, sounds like your're doing everything you can. If he is indeed I.R. you know to not give anything with sugar in it = carrots, apples, etc., etc. I learned all this the hard way. In winter is his hair heavy and curly? The "curly" is definitely a sign of Cushings, but then again every horse is different. My Sierra had a coat that was slick, shiny till the day she passed at 23 and she did have Cushings and I.R. Just keep up the good work till Dr. O checks in.
Hugs,
Shirley
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 8:11 am:

nancy,
unless you can think of a reason for attaching a name to the odd shedding and past obesity what do you figure you will do different with a diagnosis?

In the case of either Pituitary Adenoma (Cushings) or Metabolic SynDrOme (Peripheral Cushings) the main treatment is overall good management. It just may take a little more diligence than a horse without these conditions and this is explained in the articles of these conditions.
DrO
New Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 8:26 am:

DrO, I had a horse diagnosed with Cushing's before, and I think I waited too long to start him on cyptoheptidine (though he did live to be 28) I really don't want to start this current horse on any drug if I can help it, but I didn't want to "ignore" this, like I did that older horse, who suffered due to my stupidity. My veterinarian is wonderful, but she is a large animal vet, and is not always on the cutting edge. So I wanted an opinion on this before I asked for her input.
Is your advice for vitamins still the same - to give human vitamins? I give him human Vit E, but not a multivitamin.

What about the "new" horse feeds with the low starch that have come out in the last year or so? Are these appropriate for him?

Again, I have found the articles to be most helpful, and they were the impetus behind my diligence in cutting his weight down. He looks better than he has in years!

Thanks for your advice.
New Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 8:33 am:

To everyone: are there any horse treats out that are for these IR/cushing's horses? He was an orphan, and they always fed him sugar cubes. When I cut that out; I felt kind of bad giving everyone else treats but him......

Is diabetic human hard candy acceptable?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 10:46 am:

Nancy I give mine alfalfa pellets for a treat...they love them and they are low NSC's.

They also get a handful of them watered down for their "feed" Easy keepers really don't need a "hard feed" I like them to keep their protein up a bit.
Member:
kathleen

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 11:00 am:

Nancy,
I give Mona - my 'cushings'/EMS mare - black oil sunflower seeds. She loves them and my vet said they are a good alternative to sugary and high carb treats. She started showing long coat/slow shedding just this winter and spring. You say that you waited too long to start the meds. How did your mare suffer by your waiting to give meds? My vet said wait until I think she would benefit, but I am like you, when do they benefit from the meds? Is it just a matter of the cost?
Kathleen
Member:
kathleen

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 11:03 am:

Sorry, you said him not her. Oops.
Member:
shirl

Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 1:39 pm:

Non-sugar Peppermint candies are another good treat option, but like Diane, I also give Lakin Light Pellets as a treat.
Shirl
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 11:10 am:

nancy, you seem to be missing the whole point of the Cushings article and the thrust of my last post, at least with respect to the diagnosis/mangement/treatment of Cushings:
1) laboratory diagnosis adds little useful information and can be inaccurate
2) the main management/treatment problem is keeping your horse from getting too thin (in at least a moderate condition) while preventing founder. The clinical picture of your horse does not resemble this description in any way.

As to starches we recommend all horses be managed with as low a starch component to the diet as is practical. But for you this should be no problem since you are fighting to keep his weight down not up. The other recommendations you ask about also stand.

nancy, if you are managing your horse well and maintaining a sound horse with moderate to fleshy condition then you are not ignoring any problem: you are already giving proper treatment. If I had any recommendation it would be to further reduce his condition to a 5/6 as this would be healthier. If the shedding behavior causes the horse to become uncomfortably hot you should clip the horse and not consider a life long therapy with medications that are a added expense and have complications of their own no matter what the lab tests say.
DrO
New Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 1:34 pm:

DrO, You are correct, I am conflicted about Cushing's, I will admit that. Your articles are quite clear about what Cushings is and that management practices are indeed the best. However, this is the first time I have been presented with this detailed information in this fashion after years of studying IR/Cushings and etc. After 2 years of being told by MANY well meaning individuals that my current horse "looks like he has Cushings - DO something about it!" I am, I guess, wanting to assure myself that diet and exercise are INDEED the way to go with this animal despite the "old horseman's tales". Also, my veterinarian is mildly surprised that I want to wean him slowly off the Thyro-L, but I explained to her your data on the subject.

I just wanted to be SURE that I understood the articles completely and thoroughly before I continued with the diet and exercise routine, and wasn't missing some important component. I intend to continue to monitor his wight and get him down another 50-75#.

I appreciate your patience with me, and your time in answering my questions.
Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 1:46 pm:

Kathleen, I had another horse, a Morgan, who suffered for a couple of years with low grade laminitis. The veterinarian that I had at the time didn't take it seriously until the horse rotated with both front feet pretty badly. At that time, I began working with my current veterinarian, and we started him on Thyrol-L and cypotoheptadine, and he became sound (over time) for the first time in about 5 years. I KNEW that something was wrong with King, but the first Vet said "oh, he's just old", and I accepted that. So now I want to be sure that I know all I can about my horses and I take their health care as my responsibility. However, I will tell you that after awhile, we did have to start upping his dosages of the cypto, and eventually he began losing weight despite the drug. I would say it added 2 good years to his life. And he was 28 when he died, so that is a good long life by any measure. If any of you get Equus magazine, his story is in June 2008 "True Tales"

Thanks for the suggestions about the alfalfa pellets - he will LOVE that!
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