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Discussion on Lameness in Stifle d/t increase in estrogen production
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New Member:
sopranog
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Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 12:13 pm:
Dr O,
I have purchased a 2yr old Tennessee Walking Horse filly. I live in NY and my sister found and purchased the horse for me in Tennessee. This mare has a slight limp in her back right leg. We had a pre-purchase exam done by a very reputable and knowledgeable Vet. He said the problem is do to a high production of estrogen, which causes the stifle to loosen up (the stifle was tender when he squeezed it). He said her hips are level when gaiting, and I should not worry. He states, the problem will disappear as she gets older, and have no further recurrence. My concern is that I have never heard of this, and I know this filly was saddle started at 18m. I asked about an x ray and he said it's not necessary, and that he sees this a lot in filly's (I'm not sure if he was referring to just TWH filly's). I have a one week grace period to return the horse. I have read articles and post, but haven't found this issue addressed.
Thank you for any advice you can give.
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 12:21 am:
Hi Laural,
I have never heard of this either and am very curious to hear if Dr. O (or anyone else) has too.
I personally, would be very skeptical about this. Any lameness and stifle soreness would be a red flag to me, especially since she was started young. Not to say whatever is bothering her is not treatable and will prevent you from purchasing her, but I would insist on x-rays, or at least a second opinion. Also, how do you know this vet is reputable? Is he your sister's vet or is he a vet the seller retained?
I am not sure where your horse is in TN, but I live in middle TN just south of Nashville and could recommend a few awesome equine vets that specialize in lameness if you decide you want another opinion. Feel free to email me if you like.
Good luck!
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 12:29 am:
I found this link from a search I just did for 'stifle soreness estrogen'. You might find it helpful as it does discuss estrogen therapy for stifle problems.
https://horsehints.org/Stifle.htm
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 9:23 am:
Welcome Laurel,
You hear this theory from time to time but there is no evidence that any of it is true or not true for that matter. It is based on the idea that during the latter parts of pregnancy the ligaments that glue together the bones of the pelvic girdle relax to help with passage of the foal during birth.
What this might have to do with a 2 yr old filly with unilateral hind limb lameness is pure conjecture. Can this veterinarian think of no other reasons that the filly might be sensitive to squeezing the stifle? This would include the idea many horses don't like their stifles squeezed and sometimes react this way unilaterally. How has he ruled out this and other sometimes serious diseases of the stifle seen in young horses?
Horseadvice.com recommends you do not buy a lame horse and if you really like this horse give it some time to see if it comes and stays sound or have the lameness worked up to accurately localize and diagnose the cause.
DrO
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New Member:
sopranog
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 11:10 am:
Dear Dr O and Jennifer,
What a wonderful site! I can't thank you enough for your responses. Your advice has definitely saved me a lot of money and heartache. This is a wonderful mare, but there are others out there, I just have to keep looking. Jennifer, if you know of any smooth gaited walkers with good dispositions 100% sound near you please let me know. My sister lives in Columbia, TN and is willing to travel to check them out.
Thank you both again for your help,
Laural
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 1:33 pm:
Laural,
How funny, as I too, live in Columbia. It is a small world!  I am not really in the 'gaited horse community', since I only have quarter horses, but I do know of several people that are and will ask around. Email me with the specifics of what you are looking for at mandj233@yahoo.com.
Sorry about this mare. Based on what Dr. O said and what I read, it sounds like you may be best to pass on her or at least have a complete lameness evaluation done, which could get a little pricey.
The vets I use are at TN Equine Hospital in Thompson's Station. I usually use Dr. Matt Povlovich, who is great with lameness cases, but have also used Dr. Bob McCullough. All of their vets there are AAEP vets. I would trust them to give an accurate assessment if you go forward with this mare or want a pre-purchase exam of any others in the future.
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New Member:
sopranog
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 8:36 pm:
Dr O,
There seems to be some miscommunication with my sister. The 2yr old filly I asked about doesn't have an estrogen problem (even though the vet mentioned this). This is what my sister wrote to me. "She does not "lock", she slightly and barely "drag's her foot when turning on tight circles. As he said (vet who did the pre purchase exam), not uncommon in young horses growing into their bodies." She sent this article www.gaitsofgold.net/content/view/40/9/ Apparently this is a problem in gaited horses. I just wanted to ask if you were familiar with this, and does it indeed usually clear up?
Thanks again for any advice.
Laural
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 12:33 am:
Keep in mind, Laural, that in the present economic crisis, there are many unbelieveable bargains out there. You just might be able to purchase a wonderful "made" horse at a bargain price. Horse BUYERS are a rare breed right now. I am shocked at the prices in my area now...NJ, NY, Conn, MD. Similar things must be happening everywhere. The economic outlook is on your side right now........use it.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 9:45 am:
Hello Laural,
the article while interesting and has some good points but there is much conjecture when it comes to the pathophysiology of upward fixation of the patella. I disagree that this is more common in gaited horses, it is quite common in all breeds when young and growing. I do think the professional TWH crowd reaches this diagnosis too quickly and sometimes incorrectly for young horses. It use to be that it seemed every TWH that had been through a show barn had its stifles cut. To read more about this condition see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Upper Rear Limb » Stifle Lameness » Stifle Lock: Upward Fixation of the Patella.
The prognosis for upward fixation with proper treatment is good but that is really not the important question. The important question for you is why does this horse limp and drag his foot. Are you willing to risk the cash that something else is not wrong?
DrO
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
I completely agree with Dr. O. You need a definitive answer as to what is causing the lameness or 'dragging'. If you want to pursue this mare further, I would to get a lameness exam done by another vet.
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New Member:
sopranog
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 7:00 pm:
Dr O,
Excellent article! In fact the vet said that a proper trimming of her hooves would improve this, also she is under weight. I do need to make a decision on how far I'm willing to go with this. Jennifer, a second opinion with a lameness specialist is definitely the next step. if I decide to pursue this horse.
Thank you for all your help.
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