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  Discussion on Sensitivity to Fly/Mosquito Bites or Hives?
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Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 10:01 pm:

My "Diva" mare appears to have very sensitive skin. The previous owner said that she was very sensitive to fly bites and should wear fly sheet, mask, & boots. Her skin welts up after a fly/mosquito bite--usually the size of a dime to the size of a quarter. The swelling subsides after a few days, perhaps a week (much like when I get a mosquito bite). She is extremely irritated with flies and is pretty grouchy/miserable when the flies are bothering her. She spent one afternoon and night in the pasture and looked like bubble wrap the next morning (good description someone used on this site) on her neck, barrel, and back. good thing she isn't a show horse at the moment...she looks terrible. Also, it should be mentioned there have been good breezes and really, the flies aren't that bad! She has been treated with Deep Woods Fly Repellent which is 40% Deet before turnout. None of the other horses here react like she does. The barn has very few flies, good ventilation, and fans. There is always a breeze--to the point the heavy Haflinger manes are blowing! They stand placidly, but Diva mare is stomping, pacing, swishing her tail, shaking her neck and head.

Diva horse is just like her previous owner said--very sensitive to flies.

So here is the Dumb Question from the Rookie:
Can I treat the insect bites with medicine for an "allergic" reaction? Are these swellings hives?

I have looked at many discussions in the Skin Diseases section, but nothing seems to solve my confusion about "allergic reaction to fly/mosquito bite"" or "is it hives?"
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 8:24 am:

Vicki,
I suspect your problem with finding relevant information revolves around the articles not appearing in their regular positions during our server upgrade. About once every year or two I get the wild hair to improve service but their are always a few growth pains. We hope to have this straightened out by noon today and you will be able to access the article on hives which explains the appearance.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 9:07 am:

Thanks Dr. O.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 5:27 pm:

Vicki
Its always something with those Diva mares, Isnt it??
I think you can give them a shot o corticosteroid(sp?) if its bad enough to warrant.
I find that Punky has done best with her new fly sheet, with a belly band. I spray her ventral midline and legs with the Deep woods off and also put a light spray on the fly sheet,if the flies are bad that day.
That seems to work the best for her.
L
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 7:44 am:

Articles are back up guys.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 1:37 pm:

After reading the articles, I am making an educated guess that it is hives produced by reactions to fly/mosquito bites. However, I have some sleuthing to do.

The three times she has looked like bubble wrap, she was in the pasture all night. It was warm enough for mosquitos and I would say, fairly humid.

One thing that bothers me concluding that it is insect bite reaction, is that I cannot imagine THAT MANY insects biting her. So, if an allergic reaction to one bite could produce several hives, why aren't the hives clustered? They appear to be randomly placed on her body of various sizes. When pressed they pit and fill back in after I remove my finger. She isn't objecting to grooming. She doesn't rub herself on everything although I have noticed her scratching/rubbing her neck a time or two...but not excessively.

So the hives occur in the pasture (two different ones), and not in the stall or drylot. The drylot and her stall are connected so she can go in and out at her leisure. She spends more time in the stall during the day than anyone else-palomino overo. She is sun sensitive. The fans are very comfy in the barn. The drylot has zero mud or puddles because it is equiterr flooring filled with small angular rock (#12 stone I think).

Manure is picked from the stall/drylot twice daily. Manure is picked from the pastures weekly and mowed every two weeks this spring as grass is lush. Manure pile is far from the barn and prevailing winds are SW so it blows away from the barn not toward it.

No bedding on the rubber stall mats in warm months to encourage urinating/voiding out in the dry lot.

The fly population is not very large at this point. The Haflingers rarely have a fly on them. No flies have been on anyone's face/eyes whenever I'm out in the barn/drylot which is several times a day.

The worst I've seen the flies this spring is right before a storm, they seem to find the horses to land on and hang on for dear life before the pounding rain. And then, not many.

Hmmm. I have wondered if there is something in the pasture (plant) that is causing the reaction.

The former owner never said anything about plant reaction, but she did say very explicitly Diva mare had adverse reactions to flies and needed mask, sheet, boot, etc. Which I bought. She loves her fly mask. Jams her head in it! Bald face and blue eyes sensitive to the sun.

Hmmm. I'll follow the directions in the article. Now that she has the hives, I need prednislone or dex because antihistamines are preventative. I'll print out the info so I don't screw it up.

Is there a preference for an anti-fungal shampoo? Or just the usual horse shampoo?
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 2:12 pm:

Vicki
I prefer the Eqyss brand of shampoo and blanket wash. But there is also a cyclohexidine(SP?) shampoo made by Absorbine Jr. that I used on Punky last fall.
Punky never really 'itched' herself either. Just sensitive skin with some hives and lots of VME...I haven't gotten her the steroid shot as the flysheet is working well.
Good luck with Diva mare and let me know how you do.
Also a sunscreen may make that bald face feel better, if you need to turn her out during the day and stall at night for the bugs.
Cheers
L
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 2:51 pm:

Leslie, what's VME? (I'm slightly stupid.) Diva mare is never out in the hot midday as there is zero shade in the pasture. She has sunscreen and "beach" coverup gear. Quite the hot house flower she is. We had very, very easy keepers over the years, so this is a new experience.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 6:47 pm:

Ventral Midline Edema. Its a swelling from in from in front of her 'lady bumps' up the middle, centerline of belly. I think its mainly caused by a allergic reaction to no-see-ums. Biting Midge.
I am glad to have gotten under control as I didnt want to have to dry lot her.
If your girls hives up again try to take some pics.
Hmmmm, perhaps she knows if she looks like bubblewrap she wo nt get ridden or worked LOL
L
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 7:03 pm:

"lady bumps!" I had to think about that one for a minute. That's a new one for me. Cute!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 9:01 pm:

Sara W, I had to think an extra minute myself! Diva Mare has a prominent chest so each half looks like a "bump", but then it dawned on me Lady Bumps were teats.

Leslie, I don't think she had VME. I felt her belly, chest, Lady Bumps, and legs thoroughly last night and I didn't feel like she was swollen and she didn't object...just the stupid hives still randomly on her although there are fewer and they are decreasing in size. They are primarily on her neck, back, and barrel.

Because I only have three "hobby" horses, I can spend more time since efficiency isn't such an issue. And truely the Haflingers are so low maintenance. If I had a herd of 10 or 20, Diva Mare wouldn't receive such the TLC! She has two fans at two different height levels so that she is "blown" from head to toe and the fans are positioned to blow to create a cross wind. Such luxury. I have industrial pivoting ceiling fans to install--just haven't had time yet... I'll take pix if I ever "finish" the barn...

Diva girl is a lazy one, maybe she does do it on purpose...hahaha.

She is far less grouchy today.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Jun 13, 2009 - 9:29 pm:

And there are the fly spray can misters in each stall. (The $30 kind from TSC/Rural King. Last about 30 days and the replacement can is about $8) Battery powered.

Seriously. There are not that many danged flies!!!
Member:
dustee

Posted on Monday, Jun 15, 2009 - 10:12 pm:

Hi Vicki - guess I would like to open this back up again - I also have a diva darling - but would like to know if anyone has been using the equi-spot product that Farnham puts out. It's a spot-on for horses, and it's supposed to work on mosquitos, flies, gnats, and ticks. I just don't have any experience with this product yet, and with your situation, I wondered if any one knows how helpful it could be. One easy to apply 10 ML applicator lasts for 14 days. Honestly, I just ordered it today, because I am at my wits end trying to make my horse look normal. Hopefully, someone will have something to say about it!! Dustee
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 16, 2009 - 6:50 am:

Hi Dusty, I haven't tried the product you mention, but will be anxious to see if it works. My Diva mare is looking better, but still has some lumps on her neck, chest, back, and barrel. She braved the out-of-doors yesterday with full face mask, mesh fly boots, and fly sheet. It was a cloudy day with no direct, bright sunlight and a stiff breeze, so that helped. When the wind died about 5, she was more than ready to come in. She had new black fly bites/welts on her neck. She was out three hours and I had sprayed her with 40% deet fly spray. Poor thing. If she was out in the "wild", she would probably last five minutes because she would be bubble wrap (love that description). Her mane doesn't give much protection as it is on the thin side. The maneless side receives more bites however. I'll have to dig in my inventory and see if there is a neck cover...that isn't too hot...lol The Haflingers look at her in amazement as if to say, what is up with the nerdy mare? Such a high maintenance girl...no wonder she prefers arena work over trail. No fun to be in the countryside if one is miserable...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 16, 2009 - 7:33 am:

Equi-spot was a once often discussed topic Dustee so run a search for more conversations on member's experiences.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Jun 18, 2009 - 8:19 am:

After reading the discussion about Equi-Spot, I think I will avoid it.

Update: Diva Mare was out from 7-9 pm last evening. (Sun set about 9:30-9:45). She had her boots on but no mask or sheet as it was overcast. Decent breeze. I tried the Marigold Spray Sara W. uses. I think it helped. Her new bites (mosquito bites I think) were on her jaw and throatlatch where I did not spray. I thought I'd see if the product worked and NOT use it where she previously had no swellings. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to tell what was a new bite and what was old...on her back/barrel.

I also applied the spray lighter on the neck, mane side--I didn't pick up the mane. She had about 15 new small swellings this morning on that side of her neck.

I think the bites are mosquito bites. I did not notice flies at this time of the evening. There was no sun. It was overcast and fairly humid. I didn't get mosquito bit when I turned her out, but I did when I brought her in. There is zero standing water, but the ground is very damp and the grass is damp. I mowed the pasture, but it isn't terribly short. The grass is above my ankle but below the middle of my shin. I'm thinking mosquito bites given the environment. Also, her swellings are not as big as the ones I think are fly bite reactions. Sigh. So much to sort through.

While grazing her jaw and throatlatch would be prime targets for mosquitos leaving the grass...
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Jun 18, 2009 - 8:31 am:

And I might add, I watched her graze. Much head shaking and her tail was flipping most of the time. When I flipped the barn light on, in the dusk, her head came up to watch. She saw me come around the corner to the gate and she THUNDERED IN AT A GALLOP, ready to get out of the bug world. However, in the past if she is REALLY miserable, she doesn't graze but stands at the gate demanding to come in. While walking in she was aggravated with the bites--much neck and head shaking and fast walking. Even a little prancing.

I have not called the vet yet. I'm thinking it's time. Get her symptom free and start again...trying to figure this out.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 18, 2009 - 9:57 am:

Vicki, because horses often develop allergies to them I would think the culicoides midge more likely to cause noticeable reactions under the conditions you describe above. Then again I don't know how closely you are looking and individual differences in reaction are possible. For more on dealing with biting flies see Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Hair and Coat Problems / Itching / Irritated Skin.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Jun 18, 2009 - 10:51 am:

Thanks Dr. O.

My "bug" knowledge is slowly increasing. Still having a little trouble discerning Black Flies from Stable Flies. (They all look like black biting flies to me...) Need a microscope I guess.

Are the swarming tiny flies seen on fresh manure midges?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Jun 18, 2009 - 5:42 pm:

Vicki from your description it does sound like biting midges. My horses shake their heads and flap their tails also. That's because they tend to target the tail head/teats/sheath/ears/under belly and mane MOSTLY. Hank gets small bite reactions all over sometimes from them. I also react to them and itch like crazy and get bumps!

I "swat" their ears/tail head/bellies, and use an oil based fly spray. That works for him pretty well, but he still will have a few "bites" here and there...
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 6:52 am:

Since I woke up at 3:30 AM for no apparent reason, I decided to read some more HA discussions regarding Hives, Midges, Flies, and all the steriods and antihistamines discussed. After 3 hours of reading, the only conclusion I have is that Hives and Insects have raised my anxiety and frustration level. Maybe Dr. Hope from Purdue needs to be called. Diva Mare cannot spend her life in her stall standing in front of a fan. She certainly isn't a severe case judging by the discussions I've read, but chronic. No pleasure for her or me however. Perhaps the dex/prednisolone w/ antihistamine therapy will be recommended and some relief will follow.

Thankfully I don't have a barn full of sensitive horse skin or I would probably sell them all.

Thanks everyone for your input. Dr. O, I bet you tire of hearing about hives, insect bites, etc. year after year after year!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 19, 2009 - 8:14 am:

While I am uncertain what flies are swarming your manure piles, it is probably not culicoides. I too see large swarms of small gnat like flies around fresh manure but have not noted they bite.

They do not breed or consume manure, for more on their habits see the Culicoides article. When presented with lots of information sometimes it just takes repeated rereading to make since of it all. Concerning your confusions over stable flies and black flies, stable flies look like house flies while black flies are much smaller and have a pronounced hump on the thorax which leads to the sometimes reference as a buffalo fly. They look more like a very large gnat.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2010 - 10:44 pm:

Update on Diva's sensitive self.

We have had unseasonably hot weather lately. 83 today which broke a 1929 record of 82. And it has been humid. A few flies have been seen on horse faces while in the over grazed pasture and their eyes have weeped some.

Diva mare came in from several hours Sunday outside and she had half a dozen small (about the size of a pencil eraser) bumps with a crusty cap on top on her sides/middle of ribs. I could lightly knock off the crusty cap with my finger while grooming and inspecting. No swellings that I could pit with my finger, just little hard knot/bumps. Hmmmmm. Purdue was here Monday for spring shots, Coggins, and also gathered fecal matter for parasite testing--I've never had that done and wanted to see how we're doing. Anyway, last year the vet directed me to start Tri-Hist as a preventative the first week of April and see what happens. So Diva mare gets 1 tbs tri-hist granules with unsweetened applesauce along with her minerals, cocosoya and then the whole mess gets dumped on ration balancer--reminds me of rice krispie treats only not quite so sticky. Diva loves it. Can't believe that. Slurps it right down. She's had three doses. No new bumps yet. We'll see. Surely the midges aren't out yet are they? I have only seen three flies on horse faces--in the pasture.

The fans I have in the barn look like they could lift the roof off. And we have had 10-30 mph winds for the past three days. You would think insects would be hunkered down somewhere safe.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:49 am:

Vicki we have midges, mosquitoes, flies, and snakes already... we have not hit 80...think it is going to be a strange weather year again.
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 10:51 am:

Vicki please keep us posted on how the Tri-Hist works for you. I have a mare who is similarly sensitive, have tried steroid shots with no luck and just about every spray I can get my hands on, plus numerous home-concocted recipes. Swat has helped, and a mixture of citronella, clove, eucalyptus and pennyroyal oil added to regular fly spray helps too. (pennyroyal should NEVER be used around pregnant horses or people but it works great as a bug deterrent)
Member:
lucyc1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 12:30 pm:

I also have a mare who has very sensitive skin. In allergy/fly season she used to come in from the pasture with unexplained hives and very frequent bouts of rainrot. Several years ago I put her on an immune support supplement, and -- somewhat to my surprise -- it worked amazingly well. I kept her on it for about a year. It took awhile, I don't remember how long, but she stopped getting hives and very rarely gets rain rot. If she does I put her back on some sort of immune support supplement for a month or two. I've used various products: Immubiotic by SciFeed; a colostrum based product from Smooth Run Equine, and EPIC. (Our vet told us about EPIC. I can't figure out what makes it work, but it has helped a number of horses at this barn with their allergies -- from allergic type coughs to skin issues.)
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 12:56 pm:

Thanks Lucy, I'll have to read up on those products.

Shannon, it seems after reading the articles on HA and listening to my vet, that the Tri-Hist needs to be started early before bite season as it is too late to stop the hives after they are already there. We'll see. It's humid, thunderstormy right now with not too much wind, so the bugs, if they are here, should be a pita right about now.

Diane, what the heck? Midges, snakes, and mosquitoes? I haven't seen a mosquito yet, but I haven't been in any wooded or marshy wet areas yet. With the gale force winds we have had for several days, I don't see how a bug could survive! The may apples are already up in the woods so I'll bet there are mosquitoes in there...ewwww. Next I'll be dealing with trespassing mushroom hunters.

I'm hoping sweet Diva is sensitive enough that the Tri-Hist really works. Seems like from what I've read there is a line of thought that exists which asserts that once darling Diva mare has the hives (I think from midges/flies/mosqu?), she is more susceptible for repeat breakouts...so here's hoping we can stop the onslaught from beginning the vicious cycle.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 3:47 pm:

Viki have you tried the sheet made exclusivly for sweet itch?
I used deet (deep woods off) on pumpkin and it worked great:0
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 11:17 pm:

No, haven't heard of the sheet exclusively for sweet itch. I'll check it out. I did buy a case of deep woods off w/ deet in it last fall so I'd be ready for spring! I used it some last year, but she didn't seem to like too well. Hmmm. Diva skin I guess.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, Apr 12, 2010 - 9:55 pm:

Dang it. I typed a long post to update and lost it somehow. Grrr. Short version. No new bumps. Cautious celebration here.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2010 - 5:29 pm:

More cautious celebration here. It has been ten days on 2x a day Tri-Hist granules which have 600 mg of Pyrilamine Maleate USP and 600 mg of Pseudoephedrine HCI USP in a corn meal base in each dose.

Diva has been subjected to the out of doors with no fly clothing and no fly spray. Today is the first day that she came in with some swellings. However, there were only a few on her left barrel and they weren't too big or angry looking. It was HOT here today. In the 80s. Not much breeze either. I did see the flies that like to stick to horse faces/eyes. When she came in I sponged her down with cold water and felt all over her body paying particular attention to the under belly. I did find one small bump/knot above the tail head. So, maybe six swellings on that side and none anywhere else. I did see some head shaking and tail swishing while in the pasture but not excessively so. And certainly no running around to escape bugs. Usually she is ready to come in but yesterday and today I had to call her twice before she ambled up to the gate. That is a good sign. She held up her head and looked at me with ears forward as if to say, "Are you REALLY sure you want me in because I'm having a pretty good time out here." That is a good sign. She is still eager for the pellet/oil/applesauce/minerals/Tri-Hist slop I whip up--yay for that. She cleans up every bit. I am surprised.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 2:30 pm:

Still have fingers crossed. We had a damp, windy, rainy day yesterday. I left Diva mare out in the rain in a small, short grassy lot. She seemed very happy as the rain was not a DRIVING rain, just nice even rain. No new bumps this morning. She's out sunning herself in the pasture right now in 55 degree temps and stiff breeze. Fingers crossed for no new bumps, swellings, etc.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 7:30 pm:

Glad that you are seeing improvement, Vicki!

The various biters are all out in force now on my farm.

Poor Lance had a huge lump on his flank that was draining yellowish liquid. Within a day it looks like a large wound with a raw meet appearance. It continues to drain stuff that looks like varnish.

Lance's skin PEELS OFF if I put DEET on him.

My old paint horse is very allergic to citronella and gets hives from any product containing it.

It's too hot for fly sheets here most of the year, unless I can find some newer state-of-the-art ones.

A friend of mine was given a nice quarter horse for free after he foundered following a steroid shot given because his fly allergies were so bad.

Hope you can keep the Diva comfortable without repercussions.
New Member:
jdrider

Posted on Sunday, Apr 18, 2010 - 11:34 am:

I have a 14 year old 1/2 arab that I brought with me from Oregon to Southeast Texas 3 years ago. The first spring he broke out in hives and had severe itching from the gnats. We tried the steroid shots from the vet but they did no good. Last year, no welts but severe itching. He rubbed his dock and mane area raw and had large bleeding sores on his belly. I tried everything but could not find anything to bring him relief. I had to roach what was left of his mane. This spring the same situation started. He is blanketed with a flysheet with a belly band and fly mask with ears as well as a neck cover. I was desperate to help him as he again was getting that miserable look in his eyes. I tried straight Listerine in a spray bottle. The relief was immediate. Now every evening when he is brought in from the pasture he is sprayed with Listerine and Calm Coat and blanketed. He still has his tail and has not rubbed any of his mane out yet. He actually looks forward to the listerine treatment. No sores yet..I am feeling optimistic that he may be able to grow his mane out completely again and may keep his tail this year...Just thought some of you may want to try the Listerine treatment to help with the itching..
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, Apr 19, 2010 - 2:05 am:

VickiZ, Lance certainly keeps you on your toes. Thanks for the well wishes. Still holding my breath.

DJ, thanks for the Listerine tip. I had never heard of that before. Sure hope you get a mane and tail this year. :-)
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, Apr 19, 2010 - 12:21 pm:

Has anyone tried these flysheets?
https://www.turtleneckinfo.com/features.php
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, May 7, 2010 - 12:20 pm:

Diva Update:

Still no hives. More cautious celebration. I have not put fly boots, mask, or sheet on her yet. I'm really tempting fate. I will have to cover her if she is out in the warmer sunnier times however as there is no shade in the pasture. So far with spring grass, sun, and temps she hasn't been out in the middle of the day. Her usual time is 4:00 to dark. I have purposely left her out after dark several times tempting fate. Still no hives. Her other pasture time is 8:30 -11:00 depending up temperature/sun.

Perhaps the Tri-Hist will work for her. Hope it continues to do so.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, May 7, 2010 - 3:52 pm:

With the T-Storm forecast we have, Diva mare went out noon to 3:30 with a fly mask and it's cloudy, humid, and very windy. I just brought her in and she has a few bites that are round hard, but no hives. The flies are trying to "stick" to the horses although there aren't many.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Aug 19, 2010 - 8:07 am:

Update on Diva Mare:

Still using Tri-Hist faithfully 2x a day. No hives this year thus far. She has not had flyboots or flysheet on yet this year. She does wear a fly mask quite frequently. She has had some bumps, but they mostly are hard small knots rather than the bubble wrap looking swellings that pit and look more like hives. A few times when she was left out after dark, particularly when it was humid and no breeze, the mosquitoes and perhaps midges have attacked her face and neck and she had quite a few lumps, but they subsided within a day or two and her coat wasn't too awful looking. She still demands to come in for the night. She will GALLOP in when she hears me call yelling loudly that it's about time I showed up. Funny, if she is alone, she will be at the gate, but if the others are out, she stays with them, even if she is miserable--until I show up at the gate and then she will leave them without hesitation. So, I'd have to say the Tri-Hist is working for her. This year. Hope it continues to work.
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