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  Discussion on Post-Gastrogard treatment
Author Message
Member:
Skye

Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 3:12 pm:

Has anyone used anything like Neigh-Lox or U-Guard as a follow-up regimen to Gastrogard? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.
Member:
Chole

Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 5:15 pm:

We used Neighlox, but I discontinued since it seemed to slow my mare's gut down too much. I switched to an herb called slippery elm. It comes in a capsule and can be mixed with the feed (i made bran mashes for my mare) or break open the capsule and top dress the feed. The slippery elm seemed to work well--or perhaps it was just the healing from the gastro-guard. Who knows for sure?

Good luck!
New Member:
Angel77

Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:24 am:

Dear Ellie,

I have used Neighlox for the last three years consistantly. My horse is very regular and has not knock on wood had any problems. However I have not used Gastroguard only because I find the Neighlox sufficient.

You may want to try Sand Clear 99. It is a once a month purge you can put in the feed for seven days straight. This also makes my horse very happy. Good Luck !!!!

Wendy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:17 am:

If Neighlox has in fact cured your horse from something it was probably not ulcers as this is not effective ulcer treatment, nor can I find support for the use of Slippery Elm.
DrO
Member:
Skye

Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:00 pm:

I have had several recommendations for Neighlox as an additive to use after completing a course of Gastrogard.
I'm reluctant to just "cold turkey" my mare once the Gastrogard treatment is over--am perhaps overly concerned they'll recur.

Anecdotal info is always interesting. Is there science behind its value as a post-Gastrogard gastric ulcer preventive?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 6:51 am:

In experiments antacids, like Neighlox, have not been effective at preventing the return of ulcers. For more on prevention see the article on Gastric Ulcers in Adult Horses.
DrO
Member:
Skye

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 9:24 am:

Yes, in fact, hat's the article that got me thinking my mare had ulcers! She's responding great to the Gastrogard.

I have no reason to disbelieve the statement in your article about buffers and antacids not being proven effective in experiements--but, damn it, vets (like doctors) sometimes disagree, leaving us lay people confused. I just read this posting from a large animal vet who specializes in internal medicine in regard to a horse that ulcers and now gets bute for 2-3 days when he's ridden "hard."

The products you want to try - Neigh-Lox and U-Guard - are basically dietary buffers. They help prevent excess stomach acid, which in turn decreases the likelihood of ulcers. They probably will do the trick for prevention if the bute is only given for a few days. For treatment of ulcers you would need to go to a drug such as Gastroguard or Cimetidine.
https://www.ruralheritage.com/messageboard/virtualvet/2296-2.htm

Granted, the post is from 2001, I believe, but there it is.

I want to know everything. And I want there to be no controversy, disagreement, or doubt.

Dream on, eh?
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 10:22 am:

Ellie, I'll be dreaming with you
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 7:58 am:

Ellie, there is nothing contrary about using bute for a horse that gets ulcers. The problem is that he has other diseases and on balance the veterinarian feels that on balance it is worth the small amount of contribution to ulcers.

The problem with buffers like this is that though they temporarily reduce acidity, there is a rebound that is as bad or sometimes worse than that meant to be treated. Also important in horses is that it is not so much excess acidity that is thought to be part of the pathogenesis but work resulting in exposure in parts of the stomach to stronger acid than they would just out grazing the fields. I do not know of any scientific or medical studies in horses or humans that have shown that antacids are effective ulcer therapy or will prevent ulcers. On the other hand their chronic use in humans who have ulcers has resulted in permanant damage to the stomach and esophageal mucosa. No controversy about this.
DrO
Member:
Skye

Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 8:14 am:

Nope, guess not! That's fascinating to know. I guess I must calm my fears and just hope that once the Gastrogard treatment is over, she will be fine. Not easy since she seems to have had these ulcers for years and she's finally eager to eat. I must admit that that is wonderful, just wonderful, to see.

It's a shame Gastrogard is so expensive. I'm told it's just recently gone up "substantially." Think of all the horses who might not be able to get it.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 9:18 am:

Hey Ellie
I have a horse who has suffered with chronic gastric ulcers for years ... and I have learned a lot. Management of these horses is paramount to keeping those ulcers from returning! I have to feed my boy three times a day, with alfalfa hay between feedings, unless he is turned out, which I try to do as often as I can. If the weather is bad, I keep hay before him in between feedings in the stall, soaked beet pulp once a week ... and since the barn is right next to my house, he gets a snack of alfalfa before I go to bed. He has also started on a supplement which is called "succeed dcp". I will send ingredients later so DrO can tell me to stop wasting my money. Someone suggested it, so I got it because her horse is surviving at the show barn, so it may be only helping the makers of this supplement.SO,I am not suggesting that supplement yet ... only that DrO can comment on it first!
My horse has to stay on a maintenance dose of gastro gard, as every time he goes back into training, the ulcers return! It IS SO EXPENSIVE, and I am looking forward to the time I can find an alternative. Since he will apparently be on it for the rest of his life, I bet that time will come. DrO, does the expense of Gastrogard have to do with the drug company that has the patent on the ingredients? When can we expect that to run out? What is the deal with the expense of such a drug?
Ellie, best of luck with your horse ... I hope your case will be milder than mine. I KNOW how happy it makes you feel to see your horse eat grain happily without moving away in pain. HECK, I think I developed stomach problems from that sinking feeling in my gut when he would curl his lip and move away!
Good luck, and I hope this helps a little bit!
Nancy
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 9:48 am:

Back from the barn with the "Succeed" ...
Oat flour, oat oil, Yeast extracts, L-Threonine, L-Glutamine, Guar Gum
There is a website:
www.SucceedDCP.com
DrO ... Am I just hurting my pocketbook? It stays in bad shape, but I do not want to hurt my horse!
Nancy
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 11:30 am:

Gastogard cost
Yes, the cost is a patent issue. The company is making hay while the sunshines. If it is going up substantially then that is a sign that the patent is almost up. the last harrahh.
Although not as strong, raniditine will be cheaper
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 12:51 pm:

The sad thing is cheaper generics and compounded products have not seem to be as helpful in experiments. Bob have you heard of this issue (see article on ulcers in adults for info) and what are your thoughts on this?

Nancy does it have the amounts per dose?
DrO
Member:
Louwhite

Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 1:24 pm:

Hi Ellie,
My horse had ulcers when I bought him - probably had them for years. The Gastrogard cured him, along with free choice hay and an unstressful life. Gastrogard, which can only be bought with a perscription now, is also marketed under the label of Ulcer Gard. Its EXACTLY the same thing, but has different terminology on the label so a perscription isn't needed. The cheapest I could find was $28 a tube which can be bought here https://www.medi-vet.com/detail.aspx~ID~2701

Good luck. You're on the right track. Sometimes the need of the horse outweighs the need of the owner's expectations of what that horse should do. Horses in heavy training (don't know if yours is or is not) with ulcers perhaps should not be in the career they have been given.

All the best,
Lou
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 1:31 pm:

Dear Dr.O
Can you direct me to this particular article on ulcers in adults.
Bob
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 4:08 pm:

Click on Gastric Ulcers at the top of this page then click on GU in Adult Horses. To see the summary of this study, go to the bottom on the article click on "Search PubMed". The title of the study is:
Effect of GastroGard and three compounded oral omeprazole preparations on 24 h intragastric pH in gastrically cannulated mature horses.
Equine Vet J. 2003 Nov;35(7):691-5.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 6:43 pm:

I have been out of town for a while, so sorry for the late reply DrO, In answer to your question on maintenance Gastrogard, my horse now takes one third of a tube every day ...the tube holds dosage for a 1250 lb. each. Is that what you were asking? CC the question directed to Ellie by Lou, except for being a very expensive pasture ornament, my horse is now being eased back into training for what he is a natural at ... he trots high with his head up, in the pasture. No tail sets, heavy shoes, bag shaking, but it does require being stalled and traveling to shows!
I probably shoud not tell this, but my vet gets my gastrogard to me for$24.00 a tube, plus a $25.00 order fee.
Nancy
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 6:47 pm:

Ellie,
Sorry to" but in" on your conversation, however I think it applies to both of us ...
Hope all is going well for you !!!
Nancy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 9:49 am:

Well it was the Succeed I was interested in the dosage rate of each of the ingredients. Concerning the maintenance dose of Gastrogard you may be able to even use less check the article against your current dosage.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 12:42 pm:

"SUCCEED" crude protein(min)12.08%
L-Threonine(min)1.80%
L-Glutamine(min)1.44%
Crude fat(min)28.96%
Crude fiber(max)1.79%
Calcium(min).03%
Calcium(max).05%
He gets a scoop once a day in his feed ... looks like about a 1/2 ounce scoop.
CC the Gastrogard, we tried to go to 1/4 dose with no luck. 1/3 dose along with maintance of everything else is working so far. No horse shows yet ... maybe by the end of this show season!
DrO,Thanks, as always!
Nancy
Just as you are, Ellie, I keep searching for something that can help these horses through this problem that can truly be devastating, as well as career ending, if not life ending.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 12:49 pm:

Well, as usual, I forgot to mention a very important point. SUCCEEDdcp is not claiming to cure or treat ulcers, only that it is a "digestive conditioning program." I just thought I would try it in the hopes that it might help him, along with everything else.
Thanks,
Nutty Nancy(see what gastric ulcers can
do to the owner's mind!)
Member:
Skye

Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 9:02 pm:

Thanks to all of you who shared your experiences and products for the anxioius "Post-Gastrogard period." The info and the empathy were very helpful!

I have a few questions on the Ulcergard Sarah has had success with:

Why is it non-prescription while Gastrogard needs a prescription?

Is it considered one of those generics that seem to be less efficacious than Gastrogard?

It looks as if in many places, but not the medi-vet site, Ulcergard is significantly cheaper. How come?

I did scrounge up a report on the efficacy of Ulcergard at this link:

https://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/141-227.pdf.

While the study is small and apparently done for the Ulcergard people, to my non-researcher's eye, it looks credible. The results? Ulcergard seems to work well.

So....wouldn't it be a lot easier and maybe cheaper to use it--at least for the post-Gastrogard period, as long or short as that might be?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 8:43 am:

While I do not know what was required to obtain a non-prescription status of Ulcergard it should be noted that human omeprazole has been non-prescription for some time now. I think the data generated by Dr. Gary White is very convincing that Ulcergard is a effective alternative to Gastrogard. Thanks for the reference Ellie.
DrO
Member:
Skye

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 9:47 am:

The thanks go to you, Dr. O; you've taken my mare and me through a couple of years of worry. Your comments and the info on this site have been invaluable.
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 1:11 pm:

Ulcerguard and gastroguard are both excellent ulcer medicines. The ulcerguard type was the gold standard until the gastroguard came along. Gastroguard is significantly stronger. So back to my original comment, raniditine(Ulcerguard) is not as expensive because it is off patent. It is worth a try if cost is a concern. Gastroguard(omeprazole)is stronger, but until the patent expires the company is making hay while the sunshines so it is more expensive.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 1:31 pm:

I looked at the sites briefly on the "Ulcergard" and it looks to me to contain the same ingredient as "Gastrogard"...Omeprazole! What is the difference between the two, except for the expense, of course?
What am I missing here?
Nancy(I never claimed to be too smart, just good with horses!)
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 2:48 pm:

Dear Dr.O
The Gastroguard is a patented product and is anhyDrOus. It is patent protected so that the compounded products could not copy. The compounded products for whatever reason are in a hyDrOus formula. Omeprazole is not stable in water. It is not a fair comparison. The article said vehicle PH may be a factor. It is the factor.Below a PH of 7.5, omprazole would last 8 hours to a couple of days
Bottom Line: not a fair study

Another factor cost, if I were making a Gastroguard product one at a time the max I would charge would be 25 bucks. I will not make it because of its patent protection. The point here is they are selling it for 50 dollars and making a million doses their unit cost is going to be be pennies. I certainly hope that there product is better. We are paying double so I might expect as a consumer that is is twice as good.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 5:34 pm:

Bob you seemed to have 2 different products confused. The UlcerGard we refer to here is a Merial product containing omeprazole.

Nancy, concerning the Succeed the same volume of vegetable oil on 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets would be similar and provide additional nutrients in a much more balanced formulation. Concerning the equivalency of different ulcer products the problem seems to be that not all formulations of omeprazole have been as effective as GastroGard. Apparently how the medication is compounded effects efficacy hence the importance of the research on the UlcerGard.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 6:42 pm:

DrO ... think I'll switch to the vegetable oil on alfalfa pellets(a whole lot cheaper than the "Succeed dcp"),& stick with the Gastrogard! Hope that patent runs out soon!
Thanks, Nancy
Member:
Skye

Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 9:08 pm:

Okay, I guess I need some clarification: It looks, Dr.O, as if you still believe the Ulcergard is a good product for the post-Gastrogard period?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 6:10 am:

Yes, the product was effective in preventing ulcers at the low dose amount recommended in the article.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 10:35 am:

By the way, you can get gastroguard at SmartPak for 26 a tube if you buy 28 at once. The shipping is around 5 to 7 dollars. If I ever do decide to fork out the money, I will go with them.
Alicia
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 11:18 am:

Yes I see what you are saying, There are two products on the market called Ulcergard one contains omeprazole and one contains ranitidine. So I fell the ulcergard by Meria containing omprazole can be interchanged with Gastrogard
Member:
Kasi

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 1:20 pm:

Just wanted to add that a change in diet and living arrangements made a huge difference in my TB. I've always looked at treating underlying causes such as diet, stress, etc. first in treating my horses vs giving meds which in some cases may cover up symptoms and once stopped issues return. I did a HUGE research effort online for everything that I could find about ulcer, feeding TB's, etc. I read that grains cause acidity in the gut. Excess acidity causes ulcer so I took him completely off of all grains and sweets. He is fed soaked beet pulp with alfalfa meal and minerals based on total feed analysis, limited pasture time and coastal bermuda hay. I treated him for twelve weeks with Slippery elm powder and chamomile tea to heal his GI tract which made a huge difference in his eating and his comfort level. He got considerably more interested in life which suggested to me that his painful gut felt better. I was told that the slippery elm coats the GI tract and helps in healing while the chamomile tea is soothing and calming. He actually liked the slippery elm and chamomile tea in his beet pulp so no struggling to get it into him. His appetite was still not quite what I expected for a normal horse which suggested to me that there was still a digestive issue. It just seemed to me that if he was hungry he would eat so I assumed he just didn't have an appetite. After more research I came to the conclusion that with compromised digestion his B vitamins (which I've read are produced in the gut of a normal horse and encourage appetite) were off. I started giving him Brewers yeast for additional B vitamins which helped tremendously with his appetite. His weight still wasn't quite there even with a voracious appetite which therefore indicated to me more digestive issues so I also gave him Ration Plus and Absorbal as digestive aids. He now eats and acts like a normal horse and is holding his weight wonderfully. He mauls me just like the others for his feed vs how he used to be very uninterested in his feed. He is bright eyed, energetic and interested in life at the age of 22. He now lives out in a large paddock with 3 other horses and is turned out on pasture for limited grazing vs being kept alone in a stall for most of the day. This regime was relatively inexpensive and I feel very strongly that I've taken away the underlying causes of his problems so do not worry that the ulcers will return. Just my 2 cents worth hoping it might be helpful to someone.
Member:
Skye

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 8:57 am:

Dr. O, the HORSE JOURNAL (APRIl maybe?) advocates products like U-Gard for post-Gastrogard treatment, and my vet is advising its use. It would seem the HJ and my vet don't yet know of the research indicating the possible serious rebound effect you mentioned of these buffer products. Is there a place they might find that research? No one would want to risk a rebound effect, but a vet and the HJ could, obviously, lead them to use those products.
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 12:43 pm:

U-gard contains calcium carbonate as the antacid. It is true that this medicine in humans can cause an acid rebound. I would say try it first if it makes the horse worse in 1 or 2 hours then it could be acid rebound a product containing magnesium hyDrOxide and aluminum hyDrOxide would be ideal. I do not see one out there. it would be like the Maalox that is used for humans over the counter. If you can not find, please give me a call and I will find for you
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 6:20 pm:

Hello Ellie,
The phenomena of rebound acidity in humans given antacids has been known for almost 50 years now and there is not a lot of controversy about it. There is a way to give antacids to horses to prevent such a problem and that is to give large doses very frequently but every paper, book, or research article for the last 10 years comes to this conclusion:

EQUINE VETERINARY EDUCATION/AE/FEBRUARY 2000
Tutorial Article
Gastric ulceration in the mature horse: a review
J. ORSINI
Treatment with antacids is usually ineffective or impractical because antacids must be administered frequently - every 2–4 h - to be effective, and the volume given - 170–230 g - may necessitate nasogastric tubing.

More importantly in a very well defined study in race horses comparing omeprazole, ranitidine, and antacids with a placebo in their ability to prevent ulcers did not find the antacids effective. I can't put my hand on the study right now but if they need it I will find it.
DrO
Member:
Skye

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 11:03 pm:

Thank you so much, Dr. O! That is excellent information. It's exciting and gratifying to begin to learn some of the science and research--especially when myths abound, as they clearly do in the case of equine gastric ulcers.

Many thanks.
Member:
Hdollard

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 10:18 am:

I did an google search on the patent for gastrogard- it seems its running out in 2015. Extremely bad news if my horse is one that will need it continuously. If anyone knows of a cheaper place to get ulcergard, please post it here! thanks, Heidi
Member:
Skye

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 9, 2005 - 12:46 pm:

Hi, Heidi. Right now it's on sale at Discount Pet Drugs and Supplies. Sorry, I don't have the URL. It was about $29.00

I found them at froogle.com.

Here's a place where you can get a $2 rebate for up to 7 tubes of Ulcergard.

https://www.ulcergard.com/promotions/promotions.asp


Best of luck!
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Monday, Dec 5, 2005 - 9:13 am:

Ellie
Thanks for the link....I am dreaming of winning the 28 day supply and will send in for the rebate.

-B
New Member:
nterry

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 8:37 am:

Dr. O - What would be your recommendation for a 17 y.o. mare that is exhibiting ulcer symptoms that may be from long term infestation of encysted strongyles and/or being fairly confined for 3 months due to leg injury. The ulcer symptoms are, pinning of ears and threatening with hind leg when being groomed on flanks. I can not afford $34. per day for 28 days for Gastrogard. I am giving her 2 days worth starting yesterday. It sounds like that may be a waste of $$ if I can't continue the treatment. I have had a vet in the past recommend Neighlox for symptoms and it seemed to help. Another vet has recently suggested I use U-7 Gastric Formula which contains Aloe vera, apple cider vinegar, honey, cabbage powder, MSM, chamomile flower, carrot powder, apple pectin, grape seed extract & slippery elm. The diagnosis for encysted strongyles is due to blood work indicating low RBC, low hematocrit and high Bilirubin in blood work done on average, every 6 months over the last 3 years. The blood work has slowly improved each time. This leads to conflicting opinions I have received from different vets regarding the best treatment for the symptoms and indications of encysted strongyles. Should I address that question in a post relating to worming programs? Thank you for your help.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 11:00 pm:

N Marsh Terry: Click on the article name at the top of this page "Gastric Ulcers in Adult Horses" then scroll all the way to the bottom of that page and click on "Start a New Discussion". People can miss your question when it is hung on the end of an old discussion. Start your own new discussion and you'll lots of responses. Lots of us have "ulcer" horses!
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