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  Discussion on Colic symptoms during trail riding ?Ulcer's
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New Member:
whitefox

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 8:23 pm:

For past 3 years , my mare gets colic symptoms after riding her for about an hour , I ride trails with a club of friends . I'll make a long story short . I'm a nurse , my husband is a doctor , we understand ulcers of the stomach and gut. Done a lot of research on the subject of Equine Ulcers . My mare's symptoms from start to finish. : stops and won't move , even though getting left behind , even going home , keeps trying to urinate or move her bowels. bites at her sides , throws her head back at the stirrups and up into the air at her back , passes a lot of gas , gets the diarrhea eventually and keeps rubbing up against trees and trying to lie down. I put her on Ulcerguard , a full tube so that I could get the prescription dose of omeprazole into her for 2 weeks and also started her on Succeed 2 x day for a week then daily she is still taking it . I ordered generic omeprazole from a pharmacy CanPharm and got a product from France called E-guard which is the same ingredients as the Ulcer-guard for only $6.50 per tube instead of the $27.00 a tube I paid for Ulcer-guard on e-bay. I've had her on the medication a total of 35 days , full strength. I don't know if my mare has stomach ulcers or gut problems . I rode her for some short rides by herself and she was wonderful , but when I took her to drill team practice , she showed colic signs again . I read that generic omeprazole is not any good , that we need to use Gastro-guard or Ulcer guard instead , which is a very high price.
My horse has improved , she is quieter , doesn't fuss as much , and doesn't throw her grain out of her dish any more . I can see a little improvement , but not enough to say that either the E-guard or the Succeed is actually curing the problem. Should I pay the $1000.00 for the brand name omeprazole ? If I had her scoped , we all know that she will show ulcers because most horses have them. By the way, I've purchased 5 or 6 different saddles and saddle pads , had her fitted for a new saddle and now I'm riding with a Freeform treeless saddle and she is still having problems , so I know it isn't the saddle. I know she isn't allergic to the neoprene , which was a thought too.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 9:12 pm:

Hi Veronica, welcome to HA.

Could you give a little more history of your horse?
Age..breed...experiences....training...feed regimen...pasture situation,de- worming ect. or/and if you fill out that information in your profile it may help ans. a few questions.

Is it possible it is a training problem? I have seen horses act like this if they are overwhelmed, scared of strange horses ect. or herd/ barn sour, especially if they are young.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 - 5:28 pm:

A horse like this that I am aware of ultimately was diagnosed with an enterolith.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 - 7:33 pm:

Welcome Veronica,
The problem is we do not have a diagnosis so giving specific treatment advice is problematic. However if you are asking is the E-Guard effective on ulcers, I am uncertain. We do know from experimentation that some generic omeprazoles are not as effective as Gastrogard in horses.
DrO
New Member:
whitefox

Posted on Thursday, Jul 9, 2009 - 7:57 am:

My Mare is a White horse with pink skin 6 years old , I raised her from a baby , her mother is a Tennessee Walker and her father was a Missouri Fox trotter . I've trained horses my whole life
and am very comfortable dealing with behavior issues . I don't think this is a behavior problem
Sadie will do anything I ask her to do on a regular basis , ground manners are excellent
She loves to please me and I've been riding her with our club since she was 3 years old.
The problem started about 2 years ago. after Boarded her for the winder at a friend's house , so I could use her indoor arena . Sadie was sad and hated it there , she wouldn't do anything I asked her to do . I took her home after only a month . She also got sick that year. Had Thick drainage from her nose and was diagnosed with Strep. She took antibiotics , but after they were done , she got the sickess back and eventually got over it on her own.
My pasture is not very good , I have 6 acres and 4 horses , 70% of it is white clover , I feed orchard grass hay all year around , it is always available for her , but my horses get the "Slobbers" from the fungus on the clover and I have to shut them off from the pasture and keep them in the corral for a couple weeks "
I've learned that I feed her wrong for a horse with stomach problems. I've always fed her 12% seet feed mixed with oats , that I purchase from a local farmer . I feed her twice a day , about 2 pounds per feeding . She weighs 1100 pounds , is 15.3 hands high and gorgeous , her coat is beautiful and shiney ,she has no weight problems , She loves to eat , licks out everyone elses dish when they are done. My horses run in and out of the barn and have full access to it at all times .
I just switched her feed to a pellet , giving her moist alfalfa cubes with her morning meal ,giving her a dose of omeprazole and Succeed and all the hay she wants in a rack outside up off the ground .
She has no stomach problems in the pasture , or after she eats , but she does like to lie down after her breakfast and sleep.
I trail ride only . Belong to a club and we go for weekends . I can't take Sadie any more , So I bought a new Paso to take her place.
Sadie is "girthy " When I tack her up . After about an hour , she bites her sides , kicks her stomach over and over and almost falls down in pain. I get off her , take her saddle off and she continues to kick her stomach , bite her sides , passes gas and won't settle down for about 1/2 hour. She will try to urinate over and over and doesn't care about keeping up with the other horses . My vet thought she had hormone imbalance and wanted me to put her on something to keep her from coming into heat. I know this is not the problem because this happens every time I ride her. It has gotten much better over this past month , but has not really been cured .
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jul 9, 2009 - 8:40 am:

While I do not offer this as a diagnosis for your horse, I have known 2 horses in my life time that dependably coliced when ridden with timing and symptoms much as you describe. Despite extensive work ups no disease process identified, and went on for as long as I knew them with this "habit" and no worsening of symptoms. In both cases a preride dose of flunixin was largely preventive though occasionally a interride dose of oral flunixin was needed. If we presume this is a nervous/gassy colic managing the diet to lower fiber to say about 20% of the diet, though counter-intuitive to many causes of colic, may be beneficial by reducing gas production.

The key here is that every practical attempt to diagnose the colic was made before resorting to this as the permanent solution. For more on a list of rule outs see Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Colic in Horses » An Overview of Colic and follow the links that lead you to articles on diagnosing the specific disease.
DrO
New Member:
whitefox

Posted on Saturday, Jul 11, 2009 - 10:20 pm:

Thank you for the information . I will read the articles , I love doing research and trying to find solutions to problems . I already called my vet for some banamine . I will talk to him again about the problem and try to video tape it for him.
Vicki I didn't forget what you said about an enterolith. That is interesting , she also might have a bladder or kidney stone.
I"m going to ride her tomorrow , and take a camcorder with me .
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Jul 12, 2009 - 5:25 pm:

Good luck with managing this problem, Veronica.

The horse that I knew of was a gelding and would colic whether being shown or trail ridden.

The owner tried everything with dietary recommendations, medications including for ulcers, Banamine, which went on over a period of years before a sad ending.

Wishing you a good resolution and finding answers that work for your mare.
New Member:
whitefox

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 - 4:28 am:

Well , I gave sadie before the ride :Gastric-aide,succeed, omeprazole before I rode her. We rode for about 2 hours on Sunday , She was almost perfect, her fussing has really settled down, wasn't chewing on the bit , I really am pleased that she is getting better . But , by the end of the ride she started to stop , bite her sides and pass gas. She would be fine for little while , then would stop again , have pain and pass more gas. I'm really starting to think it is the clover that is causing this . I'm going to take her off pasture , give her hay and ride her to see if it helps .
Member:
whitefox

Posted on Monday, Jul 27, 2009 - 7:07 pm:

Dr O,
I didn't hear back from my Vet yet about getting Banamine for Sadie. Is there any over-the-counter meds or suppliments that I can give her to help with decreasing the gas build up when I ride her . I have a big trail ride on Sunday and I would like to take her , but am afraid I will end up walking with her . Should I keep her off pasture for a couple days before , and just give her hay , I have fresh hay as well as last years hay , orchard grass , that I could give to her , which would be better for her gas problem.
I gave her Succeed , gastro-aide before the ride yesterday and it didn't help .
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Jul 27, 2009 - 10:12 pm:

Veronica,

Dr. O will have to be the authority on answering this, but it would not seem to me to be a good idea to take the horse off the grass and switch over to hay abruptly for a couple of days in anticipation of a ride.

It seems to me that this could cause a worse problem with gas and colic.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 28, 2009 - 7:23 am:

No nothing off the shelf Veronica, it is important to realize that gas formation is entirely different in the horse than the human (or cow for that matter) and typical antigas products, usually surfactants like simethicone, are not likely to help with a horse. You have some time till this weekend for the flunixin and I think it your best bet for help.

You should note that this may not be extra gas production that is causing the problem but changes in gut motility that might feel crampy or cause painful distension is some segments. The flatulence and diarrhea may be secondary to the actually pain causing event. While I think you have a good idea to experiment with the diet, this CANNOT be done abruptly. You must make changes slowly and over several weeks time and then give several weeks more for the bowel to adjust to find what might and might not work.
DrO
Member:
whitefox

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 28, 2009 - 9:19 pm:

This would not be an abrupt change in her diet , she gets hay all summer as well as winter . I put a bale out every day in a feeder for 4 horses . she probably eats a half a bale all by herself . She is the dominent mare and pushes the smaller horses out of the hay until she eats her share.
None of my other horses , Paso's and Morgans have this problem with their gut. Just Sadie .
I ordered a product on-line yesterday , because I am impulsive , which is not a good thing. that is supposed to help . PetAlive Equine Colic Calm , this is a homeopathic agent with chamomilla, aconitum nap belladonna , colocynth, nux-vom, Sucrose It sounds safe enough , so I thought I would give it a try.
I will probably not take Sadie on the ride without the Medication, Flunixin , is this the same as Banamine?
I've called my Vet twice now and even visited his office and left a written note for him about my problem and my request for Banamine . He must be busy, i will call him again tomorrow . He hasn't examined her for this in a long time, so may be hesitant to order it without an exam.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 29, 2009 - 6:02 pm:

For more on flunixin see Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Flunixin (Banamine).
DrO
Member:
whitefox

Posted on Sunday, Oct 25, 2009 - 8:35 am:

Doctor , I got the banamine from my Vet , who has not examined my mare lately . The banamine didn't do anything to stop my horse's symptoms .
She was lazy on the ride , wouldn't keep up and kept stopping to bite her flanks , park her legs out and reluctant to walk . After making her go foreward , she jumps into a canter , passes gas and then stops again and stands still , not interested in eating at this point , swishing her tail during the whole ride
She hasn't had anything but grass hay for weeks .
I think there is something wrong with her back now
She has never been able to canter properly , does a "wicky wack" with her back legs and jumps in and out of gait . Even in the pasture , she is actually dangerous to ride in a canter because she might fall down. Great at the fox trot , but swishes her tail constantly.... Lost with any more ideas . She may just become a pasture ornament. by the way, she is deaf , maybe she has congenital problems we are not seeing.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 25, 2009 - 9:21 am:

Veronica there are some differences between your first and most recent descriptions. The two most "colicky" symptoms were parking out as if to urinate and lying down. Did you still have these two behaviors?
DrO
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