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Discussion on 2009 colt angular deformity update
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 - 11:59 pm:
I thought it was about time for an update on Forrest's progress. Since the other post was getting so long I decided to start a new thread. Here's a link to the first one for reference: https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/319457.html
It's been just over 4 weeks since the splints came off. I initially took them off because he'd bumped the front of his cannon bone causing a lump and because I was going to be out of town for a few weeks. The lump went down within a couple of days but there was no way David was going to be able to put the splints on daily by himself.
About 3 days after taking the splints off an abscess burst through the pastern of his right leg. It was initially almost the size of a half dollar. We've been treating the remaining wound (you can see the bandage in the photos) and it's now almost healed and is smaller than a dime. Hopefully the hair will grow back soon!
While the splints were on, Forrest had developed callouses from the pressure of the bandages pulling against his joints even though they were heavily padded. About a week and a half after the splints came off the callouses had softened up and the hair and skin started sloughing off. The hair is now starting to grow back but there are a couple of spots that have the white hair of pressure sores. I'm hoping that in time it grows back in dark as I've seen other pressure sores (from ill-fitting saddles) do.
My intention was to have the farrier put on Dalric cuffs. In speaking with him and his mentor we decided to go a cheaper route that the mentor has had great success with. It's my understanding that she use to be the head farrier at UC Davis and has dealt with many of these cases this way. The Dalric cuffs run about $60 for a set and have to be replaced every two weeks. When removing them they are destroyed. So, rather than use the cuffs we used a piece of solid 1/2" wood cut to the shape of the hoof with a 1" wing on the inside of the hoof. It's attached with an epoxy used for glue-on shoes and isn't real pretty but it gets the job done.
This is from the night before the "clogs" went on:
And one from today with the clogs attached:
The clog...he'd just walked through his mamma's dinner!
And, the whole package:
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 12:06 am:
Sara, that is such a nice colt--and all the handling is going to make him pretty tolerant! It really looks as if you're going to have all your efforts pay off! Thanks for the update, Julie
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 1:01 am:
I hope you're successful with his legs. He is just gorgeous!
Kathleen
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 7:58 am:
He's such a pretty little guy, Sara. I really hope that you get his legs all sorted out. I didn't go back to the old thread to double check, but from memory, it looks like there has been a lot of improvement.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 8:08 am:
Hello SaraM,
I do think the colt stands better with the wood. However I cannot quite make our what I am looking at. Is there a wedge component to the extensions?
DrO
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 11:50 am:
Thanks everyone. He is quite handsome. Julie, yes, the handling is making him tolerant of everything we're putting him through but I also think it's making him overly friendly. He constantly wants to be right in our back pockets and is pushy so he's going to have to learn some personal space lessons early.
Dr. O, the blocks of wood are oval and 1/2 inch thick over the entire block. The outside of the hoof sits on the block right at the edge. I know it's difficult to see because the epoxy is so built up. It's my understanding that the wing sticking out on the inside of the hoof stabilizes the leg and keeps him from rolling onto the inside of his hoof when he walks. By doing this it forces the leg to grow in the correct alignment.
Unfortunately, the right block came off last night so my farrier will be coming back out today. The glue remained stuck to the hoof and not the block so I think some texturing to the surface of the block before applying the glue will help. He's also going to put vertical screws in the wood next to the hoof on the medial side and horizontal screws in the edge of the block on the outside to give the glue something more to stick to. If the blocks come off again I plan to call it quits with this method and buy the cuffs. I can't imagine that the torque of the blocks pulling away from the hoof is good for those tiny feet at all.
Thanks everyone for your positive thoughts. I'm really hoping all of this does pay off.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 12:33 pm:
Wow what a handsome horse.. sending positive straight legs to you !~
On the over handling .. yup , that is what i touched on with my horse that just says NO.. he was 'over handled' as a colt and is now the sassy problem child i am dealing with on the other thread..
It is very easy to let them get away with ''tiny'' things when we are constantly worrying about em..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jul 24, 2009 - 5:01 pm:
Sara, I'll be interested to see how your little guy progresses. He looks so good with the blocks on. Our farrier used a similar type deal on Libby's foot on the leg that was injured. A lot of work with the making of the shoe/block, the epoxy and the screws. I hope he can keep it all on and it continues to help him. He just gets cuter each picture that you post.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 25, 2009 - 12:44 am:
Sara, Thanks so very much for the update. Your little guy has a body that won't quit, and a face that is DrOp dead gorgeous. I love watching those legs come along. Please, Sara, let us keep watching!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 26, 2009 - 9:01 am:
Thanks Sara for the explanation and keeping us informed.
I would note that your foal's angular deformity, while difficult to assess in the above photos as they are not taken in line with the sagital plane of the legs, has improved quite a bit since birth. However prior to the correctional shoeing there still is a fair amount of rotational deformity, with the legs turned out markedly. The primary improvement seen above with the addition of the shoe extensions is overnight the foot, pastern, and maybe to some degree the fetlocks are rotated inward and creating a much straighter look to the legs when viewed from the front.
In the past farriers would have left the inside wall long and create a very similar effect but I do have a caution. Avoid "over" rotation of the lower joints and bones out of line with the upper joints and bones: when you stand directly in front of the leg (not the horse): do the bones and joints should line up.
DrO
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Jul 27, 2009 - 12:26 pm:
Thank you, Dr. O, for your observations. Yes, the bones and joints do line up fairly well. The inward rotational improvement of the legs was an interesting side effect of the extensions as I'd been told by a couple of vets as well as the two farriers familiar with this colt that the extensions would not correct rotation but only the angular issues. There is also a note on the Nanric site that states "this shoe has little or no effect on toe out rotational deformities." My vet warned me that although he might turn in some as he grows and his chest widens it's possible that he may always be toed out.
You mention trimming to leave the inside wall longer. On the advice of the breeder we had actually been trimming him this way for 3 weeks prior to getting the extensions put on. With this method, though, it seemed that the feet were getting out of balance which was actually causing the lower leg to get out of balance. Before putting the extensions on his feet they were balanced so I think (I hope) this may do the trick.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Jul 27, 2009 - 12:36 pm:
Ann, I've been following your thread on your colt with interest. It sounds like the situation for that colt and this are very similar in that they were handled more than a colt normally would be AND their mamas are more tolerant than they should be and do not correct these little monsters. Learning from your experience and from this little monster I'm making a very conscious effort to not let this guy get away with anything!
Along the same story line, my other mare is a great mama. She is tolerant to a point but does teach manners and you can see the difference in her filly. A few weeks ago she did the funniest thing I'd seen in a while. The mare was eating from a pile of hay on the ground and the filly was running laps and bucking and playing. The filly then backed right up to the mare's hind end and started bucking and kicking up into her mom. The mare lifted one leg off ground and let it hover. The filly kicked her one more time and the mare cow kicked backward just hard enough to push the filly across the pen and get her attention. All this time the mare's face never came out of that pile of hay! How I wish I'd had a video camera for that one.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Jul 27, 2009 - 4:22 pm:
Sara I love to watch the horses in pasture and how they do communicate ..I have a new pup, that jumps up on me and grabs my pants.. this pup will also jump up on the golden retriever and pull his ears.. BUT she will not jump on the aussie/mix I have .. why? becus that aussie trained her NOT TO .. if the dogs can train each other , I should be able to train the pup from jumping up on my legs and grabbing my pants .. easy right?
My sassy rehab filly had a mom much like your mare above.. this mare would not let Danni eat.. so Danni figured out how to BACK HER WAY INTO THE PILE OF HAY...it was the funniest thing ever.. Danni is respectful but has tons of confidence to this day !
Tom would pull my pony tail while I was milking his mom.. isn't that cute .. husband and I would get a chuckle out of it.. GREAT he turned into a biter..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 28, 2009 - 6:51 am:
One last point is the view from the side above suggests a very mild superficial digital or possibly the carpal flexor contraction. Is this just the image and the way he is standing or a problem. If a problem have you considered decreasing this foals obvious high plane of nutrition.
Thanks for the comprehensive review of your veterinarians thinking process and please continue to keep us updated as this is a frequent problem and you are helping many folks.
DrO
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 28, 2009 - 11:41 am:
I did see what you see in the picture from the side when I took it. You're right, though, that it's the way he's standing. Because he does have some outward rotation that view isn't a straight on from the side of his leg so you're seeing the leg at an angle. What looks like a mild contraction is actual a bit of the view of the angular issue.
Unfortunately, because of the age of this mare, the fact that she's a hard keeper and the lack of grinding surface on her teeth she gets fed a very large amount of food 3 times a day just to keep her at a 5. It's a mash of pelleted feed and alfalfa pellets. The colt is not getting any type of creep feed so the only way to cut back on his nutrition is to figure out how to keep him away from mom while she finishes her meals. I usually wean around 6 months of age but will most likely try to wean this guy early as I really would prefer my foals not get too much nutrition whether they have leg problems or not!
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 28, 2009 - 9:12 pm:
Hi Sara,
FWIW, I will let a mare lose condition if I'm trying to limit nutrition to a colt. I've also had good luck using hanging buckets on the outside of a gate-- the mare can reach it, but the colt can't. Maybe that would help slow this guy down.
He does look better, especially with the clogs. Hope it continues!
- elk
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 29, 2009 - 9:50 am:
Thanks, elk. I'm hesitant to let this mare lose condition given her age. I have actually tried feeding her in a hanging bucket but with her eating habits 3/4 of it ends up on the ground anyway before it ends up in her!
I think if the colt's condition becomes an issue I'll just have to set up a few extra panels to keep him separated from her while she eats. If I feed her first she can usually be done and has moved onto her hay by the time I'm finished with chores.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 29, 2009 - 11:31 am:
Hmmm, Sara, how about a nose bag? They still make them, and they allow a dribbler to catch feed on the rebound. They are definitely colt-proof, though it's fun to watch them try.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 29, 2009 - 12:50 pm:
Interesting! That's not a bad idea. I think I'd have to feed her in "courses," though. With so much water mixed in with the pellets and alfalfa pellets her feed bucket weighs about 35 lbs each meal. I can just picture her with her face in the nose bag stuck on the ground because she can't lift it. Not that she'd mind, I'm sure! 
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 29, 2009 - 10:41 pm:
Hmmm, she might develop quite a topline.... Hey! It's the nosebag exercise program, and it's cheaper than Pessoa....
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 - 7:29 pm:
Here's the next edition of the "Forrest leg saga." We removed the blocks last Thursday, a week ago tomorrow. I had planned to put on the Dalric cuffs that same night but when the farrier arrived we got hit with a torrential down-pore. The instructions on the cuffs specifically say not to let the colt stand in mud so there was no way I was wasting my money or my farriers time just to ruin the cuffs. So, we left his feet naked until today.
He is still in his 24 x 24 pen with 12 x 24 shed. He's been separated from mom at feeding time for a week now getting a reduced diet and none of mom's alfalfa.
I purchased the Dalric cuffs mainly to see the design and make sure our wooden cuffs were comparable. I'm glad I did because there are a few differences and we'll modify our wood design for next time.
Here are tonight's pictures:
Head on before before and with cuffs
 
Right leg front before and with cuff (I now see I was a little far to the side on this leg when taking the picture with the cuff)
 
Left leg front before and with cuffs
 
And, last but not least, baby's new shoes
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 13, 2009 - 3:40 am:
Thanks for the pics Sara, how does baby walk in these shoes? Did he have to adjust to them.
He sure is looking better!
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 13, 2009 - 4:58 am:
He looks better to my uneducated eye as well.. i would be worried that he is going to pull off his shoes.. ugh..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 13, 2009 - 10:27 am:
Tell me about it, Ann! Every time I walk out there I hold my breath until I see that he still has both on. The glue is pretty strong stuff, though. After the first night three weeks ago we realized OSB was not a good choice. The next day we replaced the OSB with solid blocks of wood. He still managed to pull one of them off twice and the other off once. I think, though, that we were going through a learning curve since neither my farrier nor I had ever done this before. By the second time a block came off we realized that, after the trim, the entire hoof had to be cleaned and dried thoroughly before gluing the block back on. We were joking about how long these would stay on this time and my farrier said he was going to screen my calls today!
Diane, amazingly enough, he's taken all of this in stride. He walks pretty well in these (and the wooden blocks) and even manages to buck and play. You should have seen the display the first time he got locked away from mom at feeding time! But now, he waits for me to open the gate and he strolls right in then waits patiently to be let out when mom is done.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 14, 2009 - 3:28 am:
Sara, what is the prominence on the outside of the right fore?
I have to play the contrarian here. Comparing the before and after photos above or even with the clog photos earlier I am not sure I see improvement. I am also concerned that continued attempts are being made at correction though the legs appear to have mostly straightened and primarily a moderate rotational defect remains. However the legs joints appear well aligned and further inward rotation of the lower legs may disrupt this alignment. I concede that direct observation is the best way to assess the foal and might feel entirely different if I could observe the foal firsthand.
DrO
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, Aug 14, 2009 - 6:39 am:
Hi DrO. The prominence is a knot just at the top of the eruption site of the abscess. You might be able to see the dime sized scab still visible just below it.
I'm definitely up for a personal assessment...when will you be in Denver?!
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 8:10 pm:
Forrest was released by the vet for turnout yesterday and he's loving being out of "jail!" The vet's still not 100% satisfied with the alignment of the bones and we'll be putting the clogs back on him for at least another 2 week round when I get back in town. Forrest was born on 5-23-09 so today he's almost 3 1/2 months old.
We started out with three issues; contracted tendons, the valgal angular deformity and the rotation of the leg from the shoulder. He still has quite a bit of rotation from the shoulder which may never correct. I'm hopeful, though, that as his chest widens and he matures it may get a little better.
The only real comparison shots I have are from the side, for the contracture which self corrected, and the head-on view.
5-23-09
9-3-09
5-26-09 9-3-09
9-3-09
 
And a butt shot from today for good measure!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 2:32 am:
Thank you so much for the update SaraM I am sure the discussion will help others with these problems. I would note that I do believe the outward rotation of the leg will correct some as he ages.
DrO
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 2:55 am:
What an amazing difference, Sara! I sure hope that Forest becomes 100% with the last clog treatment and time. He's a cutie!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 4:38 am:
Great job, Sara! He is going to be some beast, huh? Power-packed little guy! I really like him.(I do not need another horse....)
Erika
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 5:54 am:
Sara, thanks for posting this journey--amazing progress. In my experience the front legs do change some as the chest widens. He is such a well balanced colt and that's quite a rear engine! He's certainly worth putting the work into.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 5:54 am:
What an improvement! You are very fortunate to have professionals nearby that can help with such a challenging issue. If I had a colt like that, I would have most likely been forced to put him down as I wouldn't know where to turn to for help.
Lucky little guy!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 9:29 am:
Sara,
I think that Forrest will self-correct the rest of him although it may take a while to do so.
When born, my now 17 month old colt look quite a bit like Forest. A gangly looking baby, so down on his pasterns that he was walking on them.
He did not go the splint root, but he did wear foal extensions for a few months. His legs mainly straightened out. When I brought him in to handle and break him in June 2009, I was quite worried because he was base narrow. I jogged him for a few weeks and turned him back out on July 15. Its been about six weeks and this little colt is really starting to look good. His chest is muscling up and getting wider, he no longer looks base narrow and he appears to be growing evenly. In fact he's starting to look like a real horse and not a baby.
He's due for at least another 6 weeks out in the field before he comes in to get the rest of his baby training done(hobbles and some jogging with others). Then it will be winter turnout time, for me and for him.
Forrest will be fine, too. He is already built like a brick sh_thouse, now he just has to grow up.
Rachelle
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 8:12 pm:
Hi Sara,
Thank you for posting so many images of Forrest's problem and progress, which I've followed as you posted them. I've gained some insight to how a couple of mature horses that I've handled might have started out in life. Obviously not exactly the same problem, but enough similarity to be instructive.
He's a little charmer, and compliments to you, and the caregivers involved in his treatment.
Susie
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 8:21 pm:
Yikes!! What a bod!
It's just so incredible to be able to see his progress. You and the little guy have really been through it. I salute your endurance.
If I asked before, I'm sorry, but.......what are the lines? I keep trying to concentrate on this story of his legs, and all I can see is the outrageous color, body and head.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 5:17 am:
thank you for keeping us in the loop... he is just one handsome boy .. . . .
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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