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  Discussion on Tumors on penis?
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Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 2:25 am:

Dr.O. yesterday my arab gelding Sam was "hanging out" and I noticed 2 pink growths on his penis.

They were not ulcerated, was shaped like cauliflower, and pink like new skin growth. One was near the tip of his penis and one about 1/4 of the way up. Of course I am worried about SSC. Is SSC usually ulcerated?? These are fairly new growths as I haven't noticed them recently. I was able to touch it before he realized I was looking at him and it felt like soft new skin. except it is raised up out of his skin....if that makes sense! Does this sound like SSC? I did read the articles and I really can't come to a conclusion.

I will have the vet out, but that horse won't DrOp no matter how much he is tranqed.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 12:15 pm:

Sigh well the vet came out AGAIN. Think I'll pitch him a tent.

Sam is VERY miserable when it comes to cleaning his sheath or even looking at it! The vet gave him a double dose of dormosedan and that did the trick.

Here I go questioning my vet again

He said it was SSC and I'm fairly certain it was/is myself from it appearance. It did come off with cleaning his penis. The vet said he was able to scratch it off? He said it will look like normal skin now and to take a wait and see position? They were not big about the size of a pencil eraser. They did bleed a tiny bit.

I told him from what I read about it it should be treated agressively, but then again I don't think it is in my budget, he was going to look ito how much cistiplan(sp) was and let me know.

He also said he has seen SSC that is not aggressive and doesn't think Sam's is?? how he knows that I don't know, maybe because they scratched off??? Right now he said at Sams age and my non existent horse budget it wouldn't hurt to take a wait and see approach?

Dr.O from what I read on here it seems like we should do SOMETHING to it???

He did pee better after he removed them. Well he removed a small bean too so maybe that's why. He is a little swollen also, but seems comfortable. I gave him a gram of bute and will give him another tonight... Any thoughts?
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 12:53 pm:

Diane,
I have known of Veterinarians lacking in experience who could not properly identify summer sores that showed up on a stallion's penis until the laboratory tests were run.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems off base to me to make a diagnosis without laboratory analysis of what was removed.
Member:
dres

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 1:09 pm:

Can't help ya any Diane... but gosh darn it..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 1:12 pm:

Vicki I guess that's why I am confused all the time!

The "tumors" practically fell off as he was cleaning them. I did a little research last night on it and summer sores did come up in my results.

The appearance of it LOOKS exactly like SCC in all the pictures I saw. The vet seemed convinced that's what it was too.

I will see if I can get a picture of the "finished product" if he'll DrOp, but right now he doesn't want me even glancing that way!
Member:
lilo

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 2:43 pm:

Diane - I don't know the answer, but I had one experience with squamous cell carcinoma with my gelding. He had a spot on his sheath that looked suspicious, and the vet took a biopsy (possibly removed it in that process?). It tested positive for SSC.

It cleared up and has not returned. This was about 4 or 5 years ago. I still keep an eye out, but so far, so good.

Hope your experience is just as good.

Lilo
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 3:02 pm:

A friend of mine has a much older spotted saddle horse who appeared to me to have SCC on his sheath after I looked at photos that looked exactly like his condition that were pictured on one of the threads here on HA.

The examining Veterinarian said that it was not SCC but fly irritation that the horse had been rubbing.

All best wishes for a good answer.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 3:15 pm:

Diane,
Tango always DrOps if I rub his belly button area; he's always itchy there and loved to be scratched around his BB.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 4:02 pm:

Actually he DrOpped tonight while I was cleaning the lean-to and wasn't camera shy

Lilo thanks for the encouraging report!

1st pic I circled the area that was completely covered in small scc's the small circled area is one that didn't come off, but vet said he thought he could get it off when he came back for a recheck, he actually said he thought it would go away? I can't remember how many he said I think 6 were there but relatively small. He put pink stuff on it when done...some kind of zinc oxide something or another.



without the marks



other side which had 2 pencil eraser sized ones further up the sheath...completely gone..

Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 - 4:36 pm:

As an aside I don't know if people and horses are the same as far as SCC goes, but I had one scraped off my arm this spring and it hasn't come back yet anyway. That thing HURT, HURT,HURT before I got it scraped off.

I don't know if the dormosedan would still be affecting Sam....it's been about 10 hrs. but he sure "looks" happier than he has in awhile. The scc's on the head of his penis were there for awhile(6 mos.ish), I thought it was just smegma build up until the vet told me it was scc also...I just noticed the new ones further up. He use to stand stretched out a bit, and peed a little bit quite often. Now he has a decent stream. Vet said they were probably putting pressure on his uretha...wish I had a before pic AGAIN!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 - 6:43 am:

SCC does not "scrape off" Diane as it causes an ulcer. Scrape it and you get a deeper ulcer. I do notice some mottling of the pigment, which may indicate chronic inflammation, and some areas that may be hyperemia (slightly reddened from cappilary dilation or congestion) suggestive of mild acute irritation, possibly from the scraping but they don't look like SCC. SCC is uncommon, though not unseen, on pigmented skin.

Since the penis looks pretty normal I am uncertain what you might be considering to treat.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 - 4:22 pm:

I hope you are right Dr.O. Vet said it was SCC, now that he says he has seen and is treating a horse right now for it.

I am not considering treating anything right now, vet said to wait and see what happens. I'm game for that as long as I am not putting his health at risk. I'm VERY horse broke with all these problems I've had this year. He most certainly seems to feel better!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 13, 2009 - 4:43 am:

Let me see if I understand this right: he says you can scrape off a SCC lesion with his fingernail and there be healthy epidermis, as seen in your photos above. underneath?
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 13, 2009 - 7:50 am:

WELL he said it would grow back healthy. It did bleed some. I circled some areas I remember them being...there is little craters there...just hard to see on the pic I guess
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Aug 14, 2009 - 3:20 am:

Diane, I see nothing in the images that resembles SCC or recently "surgically removed" SCC lesions.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 8:19 am:

Dr.O. Sams "tumors" are back

I was able to get a picture of them...notice areas on his penis are turning a gray color.(what's that)?








Member:
pattyb

Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 8:45 am:

Good afternoon Diane.

I'd like to chime in again after seeing your newest picture:

The gelding I lost 6 years ago at the age of 35 had SCC in the same areas when he was 25ish. We tried the cryogenic treatment to start with but even with very thorough treatment, they came back. For about the same price, he went back in for a partial penilectomy and came home 1/3 the "man" he used to be. He recovered well and they never came back.

What I learned from that was that upon looking back, being that both procedures cost about the same, I would have lobbed it off and been done with it....had I known. By doing both, I doubled the cost, especially since the cryogenic approach did not work. Maybe it does for others but it didn't for him.

He actually healed well from the ectomy and went on to live 10 more years. I did eventually lose him to cancer (internal) but up until then, he was running circles around us when we rode the other two horses in the pastures......we let him come along so he wasn't left behind. He was a good boy, went everywhere Banner did...including out of state surgery to keep her calm.

Good luck, I just wanted to share his story if you have to make any treatment decisions. I don't know what the ectomy would cost now but if I had to face that situation again, I would by bypass the "this might work" for the "get it and be done" approach unless the vet had a good reason not to.

(((((Sam and Diane)))))
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 9:43 am:

Thanks Patty, I called the vet last week when I noticed they were back and he didn't really offer up any solutions. I was hoping to catch him DrOpped to get a pic to show Dr.O. took a week , but I got them!

Just for an aside I wonder if these could be summer sores as Vicki mentioned above. I gave Sam a good going over and it would seem he has 2 similar "tumors/sores" on his belly. I have never seen a summer sore except in some pictures I've been looking at on the internet, some of them are very similar looking to SCC. Since the vet scraped them off before I have to wonder about SCC as Dr.O. stated....Curious what he has to say...

Hanks fetlock "sore" looks very similar to Sams belly sores. I have de-wormed them with Ivermectin twice with in a month. Sams belly sores and Hanks fetlock sore are kind of crusty tho...unlike the ones on Sams penis. I Dunno.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 7:24 pm:

Poor Sam; his penis looks gross! I've never seen anything like it. It kind of looks like warts. Can a horse get warts on it's penis?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 2:58 am:

HMMM Sara warts never occured to me! I went and looked for pictures of equine warts and they do look a lot like Sams "tumors" I guess a biopsy would be the thing to do, but the vet didn't seem to think it necessary...he was convinced they are SCC. The way they scraped off tho is weird. I'm afraid once again I am alone on this in trying to find a diagnosis. I have never seen these things ulcerated or bleed (except when the vet picked them off) I don't know how long they have been there for sure but I had just noticed them around July. The ones on the tip of his penis were covered with the gray stuff...smegma??? so I never saw them. the one I noticed was the single one further up.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 3:51 am:

Diane, the prior tumors seemed to be "scratchable" off. Can these tumors also be scratched or washed off?
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 7:22 am:

UGH, nasty looking Diane.

The summer sores certainly can be very stubborn about making repeat returns and usually have some kind of shiny, raised, mostly reddish spots.

A friend of mine has a stallion who has had them on his penis a few of times (and elsewhere as well, some years). The first time they appeared on the penis, the veterinarian did not know what they were so did a biopsy and Habronemiasis (AKA "summer sores") was the diagnosis.

Those gray areas almost look similar to a human papillomavirus (HPV).
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 11:17 am:

It is gross! Poor Sam. Dr.O. the "tumors" are right back in the same spot they were before. The only way I can see if they are scratchable is have the vet out again. That horse doesn't even want you looking at him there. He had a double dose of dormosedan when the vet did it the first time and he still had a little fight in him!

I have no problem having the vet out, but just since Feb. between Flashes bowed tendon, Hanks weird fetlock, and Sam's tumors I have over $1000 in horse bills and pretty much no answers... I can't be doing that anymore.. I don't know if it is because the vet is still young OR my horses get weird things, but that is too much money to still not knowing what I'm dealing with in Sam and Hanks case... At least Flash had something diagnosable, which actually made her injury the cheapest of the 3!

IF these would scratch off again what would that tell us??? Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 5:50 pm:

If they wash off like before they are not tumors but focal collections of exfoliated skin and not a concern.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 8:28 pm:

Dr.O would focal collections of exfoliated skin be pink and raised? I noticed tonight a couple more of them are back...in the exact same places. If history repeats itself they will soon be consumed by the gray looking stuff and have white dots on it... I never noticed the other ones at the tip if his penis (that's where the 2 new ones were tonight also) because they were covered with that gray stuff....is that smegma? If it is it's the strangest smegma I've seen. Hanks doesn't look like that.

Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 5:31 am:

If they wash off, as you say they did before, that is the most likely explanation to me Diane.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 6:36 am:

Thanks Dr.O. I did google focal collections of exfoliated skin and it does sound similar to this. You can see from my 1st set of pictures that it did scratch off. Is there anything that makes it quit returning? It sure came back quickly.

I will have the vet out again in a couple weeks and see if it picks off again. He is convinced this is SCC. When I called him and told him they returned he asked if I could put medication on it to treat it. I said no, he knows Sam won't let me clean him.

He said nothing could be done then, which made me sick since he said they were scc's. He also said treatment would be very expensive and did I want to do that for an old retired cushings/IR horse... not an easy decision.

BTW nice to be back on ET
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 7:32 am:

Diane,

There are times as a racehorse trainer ( or any one for that matter) that I have to do things by myself, that my horses do not appreciate but it is for there well being that I do it. You have this situation with both Sam and Hank. If the vet needed to treat either one and they wouldn't stand still, he would most likely use a twitch or a tranquilizor. Since I am always concerned with treating my horses with medication they do not need, I usually take the other route.

I use a large cooler clamp under the horses chin. It takes their mind off of what you are doing for enough time so that you can do it and it is removed as soon as you are done with no lasting effects. The blanket clamp opens wide enough that you can get a good chunk of chin in it. The clamps I use have a soft rubber end on the clamp part, so it really isn't hurting them to use it.

Also, has the bedding you use changed over the past few months. I find horses bedded on shavings have a tendency to be a bit dirtier than those on straw.

and my last tip. when next he hangs, if he won't let you touch it, try spraying with PAM. If he will let you touch it, try Vaseline Intensive care, but don't try to rub it off, just let it sit on there, until the next time he DrOps.

Because race horses are drug tested ( and we don't want to spend hours in the testing area), we teach them to pee on command (we whistle)everytime they pee (or when we catch them peeing). I know Sam is old but, maybe you could train him to do this ( I know that are out most of the time) but If they do pee inside, you could try it then.

Sometime you need to take matters into your own hands, and I am not liking your vet's attitude about Sam here.

I wish you luck and Hope that the issues with Sam and Hank resolve themselves without too much more expense or time.

Rachelle
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 8:04 am:

Thanks Rachelle, Sam will let me do anything to him without a halter on even....except look at his privates. I always work around my horses by myself, and since I've gotten older I've gotten more cautious! Twitch, chain...both don't work on Sam when it comes to that.

Hank I trust very much and can do anything to him, including cleaning his sheath, but there is always that chance of a reaction and with a back hoof I am not willing to take it.

Sam pees every time I feed them...must be an excitement thing, but he doesn't DrOp completely when he does...just a little so as you can't even see the "tumors."

I like my vet. but he is very inexperienced and Hank and Sam have him puzzled I believe. I hesitate to have him back out for these ailments because the answer is always the same...I know Hank has him puzzled. Sam he is convinced has SCC and nothing can be done.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 9:50 am:

Hey, Rachelle, can you teach my horses to NOT pee in their stalls?? I get so mad, they are only in for an hour or 2 during the day, but Gem, especially her, she HAS to pee in the stall!! The other 3 will hold it, but not her, it seems to be a nervous habit.

Diane,

I have success with treating Willow's assorted wounds over the years by making a home made calming device like the Stabilizer. I use a soft clothes line like rope under her lip, or maybe it was a stud chain? Not sure how I rigged it up without going out there and doing it again, but, I remember having 2 hooks that I hooked on the halter so I could adjust to the right amount of tension I needed. I think I hooked the chain on the one side, ran it under her lip, and hooked it on the other side. I seem to remember twisting it around the halter a few times, she has a very small Arab head.

I made some loops in the rope to adjust the tension also behind her ears, which I think is how the stabilizer device works.

It helped a lot to doctor Willow myself, she gets very scared when you try to do something to her, and then gets very dangerous.

Like anything with horses, there is a way to do this that works, just takes some creative thinking, and lots of time and patience. Try rigging up what I described if you can picture what I am saying...do short increments with it, without touching the sore spots!

Of course, Rachelle's method sounds much simpler if it works for you. Every horse is different unfortunately. Have to remember that trick, good idea.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 11:37 am:

Diane,

It is for the safety reason that I do use the clamp. I too am not as young as I once was and I see no reason to get hurt trying to do something that is going to help my horse in the long run.

My horses, other than being a little nutty sometimes are usually pretty good for most normal things. It is the out of the ordinary things that tend to bother them, so I take the extra step when I even think there might be any type of safety issue in dealing with them.

You have two issues ( Hank and Sam) you are trying to deal with and your vet as nice as he may be is not giving you the results you seek. Since your issues are unique, maybe you could contact your closest Equine Vet Hospital and send them the pictures of what you have going on.

And if you think your vet will get mad at you, tell him that you are doing it as a learning experience just to see if anyone else has seen anything similar.

Angie, I did teach one of my horses to pee in a manure bucket, but he was an exceptionally neat horse and peed in the same spot every day. I put some shavings in the manure bucket and when he came in the stall I whistled and he peed. Of course, I couldn't catch him every time, but I caught him enough so it reduced the amount I needed to clean out daily.

Rachelle
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 11:49 am:

Diane, sometimes a difficult horse will let you touch him if he is eating a treat to keep his mind off what you are doing. Both of our stallions will DrOp so I can clean them, but they had to be trained to do so. You have to treat it just like any training issue (just what you need - something else that will take up your time with these guys!) I started out when the boys were very young, but I don't think it's too late to train him now. Either as part of daily grooming or while he is distracted, just momentarily touch the tip of his penis. I'd start by rubbing his flank and tummy like I was grooming and casually work my way down to his sheath. If he won't let you touch his sheath, quit there after just lightly touching it. Each time touch a little longer until he tolerates it, and each time you touch him, give him a little treat as a reward. If he is really resistant you could do this also using the halter device Angie mentioned. I've had good luck with this method with any horse that won't let me touch their teats or penis. It does take time and patience though.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 3:42 pm:

I called the vet to make sure I understood why he think this is SCC. He really is trying hard and trying to keep expenses down for me. With some experience under his belt I think he will make a very good vet.

This is what I got out of the conversation

I told him a couple more had appeared in the exact same spots they were before, and the grey crud was back. Could he explain why he thought it was SCC and not possibly something else.

I asked him why they scraped off....he said because it was extra exudate and that come off easily.

I asked why the pink "tumors" came off also and he said they didn't really he was just able to scrape down to the epedermial

I then asked why they weren't crusty or weeping always looked pink and not really sore. He said the gray stuff that eventually covers it keeps me from seeing that and the gray matter is a form of the exudate from the SCC.

SOOOO he is still convinced it is SCC BUT of course could be something else like warts, sarcoids, or bovine pappilovirus ....tho he said he has been around cattle enough he should be immune to it, and if it is the former it will clear itself come winter.

Thinking back I believe he had these on the tip of his penis last winter...I noticed the gray stuff covering it and that's why I didn't see the pink "tumors" I think the one further up is new and hasn't been there...unless it was covered also. I just made a mental note that he needed to be cleaned when the weather got warmer. This vet cleaned him about a year and a half ago and these were not present then...
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 10:59 pm:

Dr.O. I have been looking up bovine papillomaviruses, which seem to be the cause of, or at least one of the causes of sarcoids. The pictures AND descriptions sound very much like Sams grey stuff and "tumors".....

We always keep the replacement heifers in the pasture right next to the horses and now that I have thought about it one of the heifers had VERY VERY similar "tumors" AND grey stuff around her genitals. I remember commenting to hubby about it, but he didn't know what it was....we thought maybe she was scratching her butt. After researching this a bit I would have to say it was almost assuredly BPV. This was last summer, I noticed the gray stuff,which I believe was covering the "tumors" OR the tumors turned gray? on Sam sometime between last fall/ winter. Have you ever seen a horse infected with BPV on the genitals? I gather it's considered a sarcoid actually. When the vet picked them off they did bleed quite a bit.

I know the heifer had it all the while she was in the pasture by the horses, she actually just had a calf today and does not have them anymore, I believe they went away over the winter.

Do these "tumors" resemble sarcoids? I have never seen one. The descriptions I have read seem to fit these"tumors" better than SCC does and so do the pictures I have been able to find

I took this picture from another thread here on HA about sarcoids (I hope that's OK) Sam's tumors looked exactly like the one in this picture on the bottom....not like the one IN the ear....before the vet cleaned him.

IF these are sarcoids should I be concerned, I read the article on them, and some other stuff and it would seem leaving them alone may be the best thing???

Thanks

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 11, 2009 - 8:53 am:

Neither sarcoids nor warts will wash off Diane. For more on sarcoids see Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Bumps / Nodules / Warts / Tumors » Sarcoid.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Sep 11, 2009 - 6:15 pm:

Thanks Dr.O. I give up then! Just like Hanks fetlock I guess, it is what it is...whatever that is.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 11, 2009 - 8:09 pm:

If it washes off and there is normal skin below it is just exfoliated skin DianE and since it has already done that once....
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Sep 11, 2009 - 10:39 pm:

Dr.O. I guess what I don't understand about it being exfoliated skin is the way they came back in the same place, for some reason I can't picture exfoliating skin being raised and pink...what about exfoliating skin would make it look like pink "tumors" that come back in the exact same place???

I would appreciate it very much if you would explain that to me.

The vet didn't exactly just wash them off he did scratch them off is what he said anyway.

IF this is just exfoliating skin that would be great!

Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 3:44 pm:

Dr.O. I really do hate to keep bothering you about this, but it is a rather worrisome looking mess

I am going to TRY to get pictures tonight. Sam's "tumors" the pink raised flesh, seemed to be coming back very aggressively since the vet cleaned him. I understand from my other post about it SEEMING to come back worse than slows down. These pink raised "tumors" of which all start out as a star shape are being engulfed by the grey stuff. The last couple days I have noticed when he urinates he is dripping for quite awhile after he is done. When I looked it appears the "pink tumors" (once again can exfoliated skin appear as raised pink flesh???) are growing on the head of his penis and is encroaching on his ureathra. From the glance I got of it, it appears it may start to block it. It too is becoming covered with the gray skin??? Also today I noticed where he has pink pigmentation on his penis it is starting to look like it has blisters on it. I wish I would have had my camera.

Any ideas?? I don't know whether it's a good idea to have the vet clean him again, this stuff (especially the "pink tumors") have seemed to get way more aggressive since his last cleaning. The Gray stuff doesn't concern me as much as these pink raised flesh things.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 3:52 pm:

This sounds nasty, Diane. I surely hope that you figure out what this is and can find a way to stop this progression.
Member:
pattyb

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 4:20 pm:

Good afternoon Diane.

It's been my experience that tumors don't like to be messed with and when removed, if not completely removed, they come back quicker and angrier. I've heard various theories on it, one being that when you partially remove a tumor, the immune system slows the combat and the remaining tumor gets ahead of it.....but I honestly have no idea...I just know from what I've seen with my old gelding from years ago and the dogs I work with day to day. Perhaps that could lead you to question your vet about it?

Just wanted to share my thoughts and past experiences............
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 4:20 pm:

Diane, are you sure these aren't warts? I ask because often scraping off a wart will make it grow back more aggressively and because you mention a "star" shape.

He could also have extra smega building if he is Cushinoid and the warts could be holding it on so it builds up instead of shedding off.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 5:02 pm:

Sara, I'm not sure what they are at all. I don't know if it is worth talking to the vet about it or not, he really is convinced it is SCC (maybe it is) It just doesn't present as such since they don't get ulcerated. They stay pink like new flesh, then get covered with the gray stuff, then they just look like gray lumps! I think he has had them since last fall. I noticed the gray lumps, but never caught the "pink tumors" the gray stuff covers them up rather quickly. It is weird that now his pink pigmentation has what looks like small blisters (before they pop).

I hope I can get pictures, he usually "hangs out" right before I feed. If he sees me he usually "reels" it in pretty fast thos
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 6:18 pm:

My old stallion is just the opposite. He's ever hopefull we've decided to breed!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 7:35 pm:

Diane,

Interesting about you saying that there are "small blisters before they pop."

This sounds more viral in nature than carcinogenic in that regard.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 8:53 pm:

I was able to get 2 pics before IT disappeared, they definitely don't do it justice, but you get the idea.

The 1st pic I circled one on top that seems to be sticking out...maybe it is falling off? (tho I don't think so)

The bottom I circled where they are taking over the head of the penis and if you look closely you can see them sticking out down by his urethra. I will interject here he is able to urinate fine at this point, just has some dribbling at the end...which may be unrelated.



The only other pic I was able to get

Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 9:03 pm:

Bigger one of the 1st picture
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Sep 20, 2009 - 11:35 pm:

Diane, that looks like crusty smegma to me; but I'm not sure what's under it, the pink growths. Like Dr.O, I have serious doubts about it's being SCC. Hard to tell from the pictures, even though they're pretty good.

Is there any other group of people who spend so much time staring at a horse's penis! LOL......well, never mind about THOSE kind! LOL.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 21, 2009 - 12:13 am:

Sara, I think the gray stuff is smegma and doesn't really concern me. The pink growths are what I think are strange, they are mostly covered now with the "smegma" The pink growths are just weird and definitely not normal....I've never seen it before anyway! They are also growing down by his urethra. After the vet cleaned him his stream was much better (still is) but it appears to be slowing down again. I hope the pergolide helps with this mess.

Dr.O. I guess the question I have for you is can focal points of exfoliating skin present as pink raised growths? (IF) this is exfoliating skin is it best to keep cleaning it. Is there anything that can be done for it...other than I quit looking at it? What causes such a thing as this? Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 21, 2009 - 9:27 am:

The only thing I know for you to do is to see if this stuff comes off Diane. Until you do you are left worrying.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 9:51 pm:

Dr.O. I have been sitting by the mail box waiting for the vet bill to come so I can hide it from hubby so if you don't mind I would like your opinion before I have Sams sheath cleaned again.

I took only 3 weeks for Sam's "tumors and excessive skin/smegma to come back. Obviously I can't have the vet out to clean his sheath that often or we would go bankrupt! Between the tranq, the call out and the cleaning it came to close to $250. I guess I need to teach the boy to let me do it, but that is not going to be an easy task or happen quickly.

Anyway I did manage to get another picture yesterday and it looks like around the tip of his urethra it is irritated, I do know those "tumors" were growing there again, and believe the exudate is covering them now. His stream is ok, but I noticed today he is not DrOpping at all to pee, this is not normal for him, and it was spraying all over, after he peed he DrOpped...kind of strange.

My question is since this stuff grows back so very fast does he need to be cleaned like every 2 weeks OR since it doesn't really seem to bother him does it matter? It certainly looks sore around the tip of his urethra, but I think that is because the pink "tumors" are underneath that exudate giving it a "red glow".

The white looking stuff that kind of resembles puss looks like Hanks leathery skin he had on his fetlock, so I am going to take for granted that is part of excessive exfoliation?

I am debating having the vet come tomorrow and clean him again, but if it isn't necessary I'd rather not at this point, I also wonder if cleaning it too often may lead o problems?




Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 10:23 pm:

One more pic with a circle, what could this serumy looking drip be...this was not taken after he had urinated. Is that a part of excessive exfoliation?



Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 2:35 pm:

Dr.O I called my vet and asked his opinion. He said we could lay Sam down and burn those tumors off. I told him I still don't think it is SCC because his penis was so clean when he got done cleaning it (and I have pictures to prove it) He said well maybe not then..sigh.

SOOO I told him what it was looking like now and about that pussy looking stuff with the serumy looking stuff coming out of it. He said maybe it is infected and that's the problem...well maybe I guess..do they get infected?

He said he is going to be off the next 2 weeks and to try some smz's on him....so once again I am checking to see if that makes any sense to you, I'm not a big fan of using antibiotics if they aren't needed. In a way it does make sense to me as I imagine this crud could cause irritation and infection.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 12:10 pm:

I see nothing out of the range of normal in the above photos. Smegma from unpigmented skin is often yellowish.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 2:18 pm:

Really. HMMMM I'm totally confused then. Having owned male horses for quite sometime, I have never seen anything like this.

I understand the black stuff, I understand the yellowish stuff, the "tumors" I have never seen and find it hard to believe they are "normal". I have searched high and low on the web...and when I put my mind to it I'm pretty good at finding things, and I can find many things that resemble these "tumors" but nothing that really fits the bill.

The whitish stuff with the drip looks very much like harbronema the pink "tumors do too in a way, but I can't imagine it possible to have that many? as an ex:
https://trinitygsd.typepad.com/.a/6a00e5529a44b9883401156f6d8a50970c-800wi

If you care to see the full story it is towards the bottom of this

https://trinitygsd.typepad.com/trinitygsd/2009/05/index.html

Dr.O. I am on an upswing in my tiny horse world, everyone is finally healthy and "sound" after this long year of problems. This is something that still bothers me. The excessive exfoliation makes perfect sense to me except those pink "tumors" and the dripping white stuff that I circled. Do you find these to be with-in normal limits? Thanks
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 1:24 am:

Perhaps you could look into a set of stocks. I know that it's an added expense, but you need a way to immobilize Sam. They might come in handy with the cows, too. Perhaps a used squeeze chute might work. You could take some time teaching him to eat in them before you try any treatment.

I had a gelding that really built up excessive smegma - rapidly. He was really touchy about that area, and cleaning. I got a suggestion to keep a large bottle of baby oil nearby, and during normal grooming time, finish up with a hefty squeeze of oil ( do it quickly ) up into the sheath - it's not necessary for him to DrOp. It really loosened up the smegma and a lot of it came off on it's own. The other plus was, the regular squirting of the oil helped to desensitize him a bit. If he tries to take a swing at you then maybe your hubby could hold up one back leg while you squirt. Eventually, he'll get used to it if you do it daily.

Just a couple of thoughts.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 6:57 am:

Lee,

Good idea about the baby oil. I wonder if that would soften any beans? Cody has a hard, immobile something inside his sheath, vet says to just "watch it" so I try to check it's size now and then.

I bought a couple of cheap clear squeeze bottles at walmart; I keep vegetable oil in one, and molasses in the other one. I am going to add a 3rd now with baby oil. (I didn't want the catsup and mustard ones, might confuse someone)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 7:28 am:

Lee I thought about the baby oil or something similar, but wondered if that wouldn't attract even more dirt?

We do have a squeeze shoot for the cows, but I'm pretty sure a horse would struggle in one and do something to it's neck muscles, knowing my luck it would probably pull it's head off

Sam is a good boy except when it comes to that, I have tried all restraints including a lip chain...he goes right through them. I've tried feeding, rewarding...you name it. I have a feeling in his 1st three years of life before I got him something was done to him. He was still a stud and the guy that had him abused him horribly. He was kept in a standing stall 24/7 with crap up to his knees.

When the guy brought him out to show me he whipped him, ear twitched him and said he would charge and bite you if you didn't do that sigh....

Didn't really want Sam, but that scene played over and over in my mind and the next day I went and bought him....talk about a long row to hoe to get that horse to trust. Took mos. just to be able to lead him and teach him grooming was ok...he would kick continuously. He still isn't real fond of men...can't blame him.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 8:43 am:

Diane, trying to evaluate the penis by looking at the stuff that accumulates on the outside of the penis is a bit like trying to evaluate a mud covered leg. Evaluate the penis not the accumulated stuff on the outside. Our last good look at the penis on Aug 11th the penis looks fine in the photos.

If you have trouble with this horse consider using the techniques described at Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavior and Training » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses. The running through the lip chain suggests to me you were trying to go to quick with the training.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 11:34 am:

Diane --

I have read more about the use of the baby oil for preparing to clean a sheath along with your line of thinking -- that it is not the thing to use and only attracts more nastiness.

And I sympathize with the difficulty in cleaning Sam.

Lance had complications and infection associated with a late gelding and while he will allow me to put my hand inside the sheath area he willingly allows no one to touch his penis without very heavy sedation, which has to be done by my veterinarian who once attempted to tie up one of Lance's rear legs with a rope as a means to assist the process. When I expressed grave concerns he insisted that he had never had a horse who would not give into that as an additional tool.

He soon found out that there are horses out there who will not give to any such thing under certain circumstances of extreme self-preservation and panic. My Veterinarian did not have a knife on him to cut the rope when Lance continued to panic and fight. And the knife that he retrieved from his truck was not large enough to do the job. The rope had to be untied, which put us all in danger. Lance's fetlocks were very swollen after this exercise in danger and futility and I had to ice them.

I would never try stocks or any such device as a method of attempting to safely clean Lance's sheath and have also learned that when my inner "gut" instinct tells me that something is really not a good idea that I ought to realize that I know my horses better than anyone else.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 5:35 pm:

Vicki you have described Sam to a T when it comes to his privates.

I have had the patience of a saint with him.He will not let me near his penis, I can touch his sheath, but that's it. It is pretty hard to run a chain and try to clean a sheath.

He was fighting the vet with a double dose of dormosadan in him. I really don't think he is trainable in this area he just completely panics. I have gotten him to accept everything but that.

I guess I will have the vet out one more time before winter, maybe since he started the pergolide the smegma and stuff will slow down. He really has not had much of a problem with build up at all until the last couple of years. I only had to have his sheath cleaned 3 times in the 20 yrs. I have owned him...so I wonder if it is related to the CD.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 8:22 pm:

I once had surgery done on Lance's face ("cut deep and wide") to remove what was thought to be melanoma (no problem) but just after they completed that they tried to clean his sheath and when they touched his penis it was three people handling him -- one holding up a foot, one pinching his nose and he had, 5 doses of one tranquilizer in him and 2 of another (rompan and ace). He fought like crazy and afterward could barely stand up in the trailer to get back home and was still out of it for hours afterward. The dormosadan is what now helps so that we can manage the task but my Veterinarian still must be very careful about not trying to pull the penis down as he instantly becomes combative, and I am usually twitching Lance's nose with one hand (no tools but my hand) but it would also help to have someone hold one of his legs up!

A cowboy I knew wanted to whack him with a 2 x 4, but of course I would never allow such a thing.

Horses have good memories about early pain and suffering and no matter how much love and trust there is, sometimes there are things to which they will be reactive.

Maybe Monte Roberts could fix it, but I can't.

I used to have Lance tranquilized and cleaned twice yearly but with worries about side effects from Ace (penis remaining down) I have gone down to once yearly.

Unfortunately Lance is pretty much always the perfect poster boy for a "horse with a sheath badly in need of a cleaning."

Hope you can get to the bottom of this situation, Diane, and that it is nothing serious.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 10:13 pm:

Dr.O. once again you make sense....some day I will have some common sense. You are starting to get me straightened out.

I will have the vet again when he gets back, I was able to get to the vet bill before hubby saw it and pay it off.

If it cleans off again I will just accept he has a weird pink growths and won't look at it anymore!
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 8:37 am:

Has anyone tried clicker training to get their horse over this fear? I've never had to deal with this particular fear but I've used CT to overcome numerous other fears and the results are always swift and lasting. You might not want to do the training in view of the neighbors though
Cheryl K
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 9:03 am:

Your horse will not be trainable only for as long as you don't think it is possible. You can clean the penis in the sheath, in fact geldings insist upon it without sedation.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 10:18 am:

Not Hank I tap his belly out it comes and he love me cleaning his penis and sheath (almost too much)without sedation, of course I had Hank since he was a foal which makes a difference.

I still don't think it possible, but will see what I can do, I have 2 weeks until the vet is back to work on it, if I have time.
Member:
pattyb

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 10:35 am:

Diane.....I completely understand how you feel. When your gut says "I don't want to get kicked in the head today," it's always wise to listen.

The gelding that I had that had the SCC came so close to kicking me in the head that his hoof went thru my hair...... From that point on, I backed off and once he healed from surgery, all's I did after that was put a warm hose up there until I thought it had done it's job.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 10:55 am:

Maybe I better wear my helmet! I liken' Sams "fear" to my fear of snakes...I am not trainable out of it, even after being desensitized over and over...they scare the crap out of me and if someone came near me with one I would kick their heads off even if they gave me some chocolate. Not a good thing when my hay seems to be full of them at the place we rent!

I'll see what I can do, I am not a beginner at handling horses, I have taught Sam to stand for vaccinations...that was another thing he was horrified of, we can now do them without a halter even. His penis is off limits as far as he is concerned, and quite frankly I wouldn't doubt that the guy I got him from made a habit of kicking him there...that poor horse had been through the wringer in his first 3 years of life and was as mean as they come when I got him, I was afraid I was in over my head. The guy also believed in the 2x4 method and Sam had lumps and contusions all over his head. I am the only one that can touch his ears to this day, since that guy was always ear twitching him, and sometimes he doesn't trust me doing it, but bites the bullet and stands there.


I don't rush anything with him
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 11:47 am:

There is no problem cleaning my other horses, only Lance.

Perhaps I will go back to working with Lance again when my time is freed up a bit more than it has been. Sometimes a person just doesn't have the time that it takes, and safety certainly is an issue. When it can be done safely through tranquilizing that is an attractive option.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 1:53 am:

I never experienced a problem with the baby oil, and it worked well. I was in showing for fifteen years, and on the big ( and small ) circuits, you never saw a gelding owner without baby oil. When you get up to the Congress and the World levels, you're not going to risk showing a "groomed to the nines" gelding who at any moment during his class could risk DrOpping a crusty black and yellow smutzy peeley flakey penis.

I've seen, in my 45 years with horses, far more problems caused by various cleaning concoctions. Those dingle dangles have really sensitive skin. Eventually, I always got the geldings I had to work with, to stand quietly. It really helps if the water is comfortably warm.

As for the stocks, if you are ever in a position where you must rush your baby to an equine clinic, you will find stocks. Stocks were not designed by an idiot to torture your horse. Most horses can be treated without them, but if your horse is in a life or death situation, and has all the sedatives on board, and STILL is capable of harming the vets and techs, those stocks are a blessing....because, the vets and techs have no real obligation to put their careers and bodies in jeopardy for your horse. Especially while they are doing a rectal. And, I sincerely doubt that anyone of us on this site, would ever expect our vets to expose themselves ( and their careers ) to such danger.

I really don't know about the bean. I rarely had trouble with that....I suppose that could have been the baby oil. At shots time, I always had the vet check, and clean if necessary.

Does the baby oil attract dirt? No, it's really very slippery and dislodges the gunk on the penis. Then, as it slips in and out of the sheath, the softened gunk falls off. You should try to pass a rag over his sheath every time you clean him, becoming slightly more agressive each time. And if you want to clicker train him....you know, you don't need a clicker. Just pick an easy, distinctive phrase like, Sammi Sammi....and jam a treat in his mouth every time you say it. After all, you can forget or lose a clicker. It's rare that you could ever forget or lose your voice.

Someone said something about "Pam". That would be on the same idea as the baby oil. But I think that there is less "stuff" in the baby oil.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 7:03 am:

Lee I think I am going to try the baby oil, after I thought about it, even if it does get dirtier I have to have the vet out to clean him anyway so nothing lost and maybe it will work

The only thing that concerns me a little is they are kept up at night and sleep on wood shavings, and I am picturing bedding getting stuck on "it", and it looks like there are little "splinters" in the shavings sometimes... not sure that would be a good thing to get stuck on it.

As far as stocks I was talking about the squeeze shoot, I don't know what you meant for sure, but a squeeze shoot to me has a head gate to catch the cows head.. Sam would have no problem with standing stocks, but we don't have one.

The funny thing he used to always be peeing and hanging out before I started the pergolide, now that it is under control I never see his penis anymore. The pergolide has made a huge difference in Sam, and I am hoping these pink growths/excess smegma is somehow related to it...the excess smegma doesn't concern me so much. I don't think the baby oil would address these as the vet had to scratch them off. I am going to have the vet do it one more time so we can get the pink growths/excess smegma off and then go from there.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 8:02 am:

I strongly suggest you use the recommendations in the behavior modification article and develop a written out step by step plan but I would not require the gelding to DrOp out, don't pull on it. Clean it and examine for the bean with your hands while the penis is in the sheath. If you feel you must place yourself in danger then you should not do this and you are left with sedation.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 11:25 am:

I totally agree with Lee, except that I use KY jelly. The stocks Lee mentions are not a squeeze time, they are an examination shute. They are normally open on both ends and often have side that can be released and DrOpped down in an emergency. You lead the horse in and put a padded bar across the front of the horse, then you shut the gate behind the horse. There are usually several different places you can put the front bar into and you slide it into he one that confines the size horse you have so he can't move forward and move away from the vet when he's palpating during a rectal exam for instance. It's easy to train a horse to go and out of these. We have one which I use as a wash rack and for treating injuries. When we were breeding, we used it as a palpating shute for the brood mares.

Don't put yourself in danger, but if you gradually work with Sam, using little "baby steps," you'll get him so you can handle him. Stallions have to be washed before and after every breeding and we trained ours early on. I use those disposable surgical gloves when I clean, and when the stallions see me put them on, the start to DrOp.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 3:19 pm:

Thanks for the explanation about "stocks." I was envisioning the things that people put around a horse's lower legs sometimes (kind of like handcuffs) to keep them from going too far!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 3:50 pm:

Those "handcuff things" are called hobbles. You obviously need to spend more time in the West!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 3:53 pm:

Handcuff things love it!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 8:10 pm:

Thanks for supplying the right word (hobbles). I have used a cattle shute for cattle but we never called it "stocks," plus I guess my brain is getting as old as the rest of me!!!

Much to learn by keeping up with the talks on HA.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 8:44 pm:

Well, I guess they could be called "hoofcuffs."

Sad to say, I know the feeling about the brain!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 8:54 pm:

Next we will need spelling lessons, I see I spelled
Squeeze "shoot"

Vicki spelled it "shute"

Lee got it right anyway! I wonder why I spell things wrong when typing, when I do know how to spell them, sometimes I look at it after posting and wonder if I have something wrong with me!

Back on subject...sorry Dr.O. I have not seen Sam DrOpped since I took those pictures Oct.1
When I talked to the vet he suggested SMZ's so I did start him on them, now that he won't DrOp I don't know if it is helping anything. He has been on them a week, so I guess I'll discontinue them. Vet and wife had a new baby today so he won't be back for a couple weeks.

I don't know if it is a good or bad thing he never DrOps anymore, when I talked to the vet he said as long as he was DrOpping to pee, he'd be ok, that was before I told him that day Sam had peed with out DrOpping and was spraying all over. I have NOT seen him pee since...that pergolide really fixed that! He said if he wasn't DrOpping it could be swollen inside, but wouldn't that make him uncomfortable??? He is acting great and healthy
Member:
paul303

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 11:18 pm:

Glad to hear that Sam is acting great. When indicated, pergolide can be a wonderful help. There is nothing quite like seeing your old friend come alive again.

Tonto, my old paint gelding, used to put out enough smegma for 3 geldings. Once cleaned, the baby oil helped with maintenence. But even when he was bad, the oil softened and loosened it up and enabled me to get a huge amount off with no effort. Like Dr.O said, I never grabbed or pulled, but went gently up in the sheath with a clean cloth soaked with warm water. It took a while to get him to accept this, and it took nearly as long to develop a technique. But, once a routine was extablished, there was no fuss. I still treated with the baby oil once a week or so. Years after the show arena, as he got older, he created more yutz. But the yutz stayed soft and slick and easily removable. My other geldings never were quite that bad and were easy to work on. With the baby oil, they were effortless.

You only use a little oil. Just one quick squeeze. Don't try to get a half cup of baby oil up there. Just a squeeze - it doesn't take much.
And it will introduce him to you messing around there regularly in a manner that is not too threatening.

Whatever method you use, you'll get through this. Gentle persistence.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 7:04 am:

Something that I find to help is not go at it with the outcome in mind. Like trying to get a horse to go in water, act like it is the last thing you want to do.

So maybe grooming, massage, with getting closer to the target, retreat. Then "oops, how ever did that baby oil get up there?"

Take your time, and look for the magic spot that works. Maybe lots of rubbing on the dock of the tail, or at the belly button?

A few years ago, Willow needed eye DrOps. I grabbed her ear in desperation to get the DrOps in. I had tried everything short of a straight jacket! So then I created an ear phobia...uugghh!

Lots on lots of rubbing, lots of patience. Still have to move slow, but she's o.k. now.

Horses want to trust us no matter what happened in the past. So I think changing our thinking changes our boday language and helps them accept what we want.

Must resolve this! Delayed words again, thread too long! Only happens on Diane's discussions, hahaha!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 7:13 am:

Angie I hope you are happy, I spit my coffee all over the screen with your last sentence.

I will shut up and resolve this! Then post the findings, No more part 2's for me!

This is my last problem for the year (I hope) and it's only Oct.!
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 7:40 am:

Diane,

Everyone here has been giving you really good advice, so I'd like to chime in.

I think I'd try to make this a non issue with Sam. I would not try to grab it and pull it down. I would back up and either try and use a warm water hose, not even on it but in the general vicinity. If he handles that well, I'd try the hose up the sheath method and then, I'd get a mixer ( you know the one's that you can shampoo a horse with) and I would mix baby oil in with the warm water and spray.

I do not think I would try and squirt the baby oil by itself, because it seems as if Sam is anticipating and reacting before you even try to do it.

Using the hose, you can desensitize him slowly and you can stay out of the way so you won't get hurt. I really don't think this would take more than a few days to do and you can go as slow as you want.

Eventually, you might be able to get the baby oil on by itself, but for now, you are just trying to get him to accept someone( you) dealing with his privates.

I have also had some luck with using a large Turkey baster. I didn't have to use it on a sheath but I did have to use it to flush an abcess in a horses face. It holds a lot of water and works really good.

Sam may also accept this a bit better since no one hands have to touch him.


Rachelle
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 8:33 am:

Now THAT made my day!

I owe you a cup of coffee it seems!

Let's vote: How many think this will be Diane's last discussion for 2009?

Picture threads don't count!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 11:10 am:

Angie, are you kidding!??? I hope she's posting regarding something good without a problem for a change though. She's had her share for this year.

Diane, I think you're a poster child here. You've really worked through some chronic problems with your guys. Congrats! I'm sure you'll eventually get Sam to accept his cleaning, also. Patience girl!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 11:36 am:

Well, I for one have learned quite a bit from Diane though for her sake I would love if there were no posts regarding new problems for the remainder of the year -- just ones about how something is going great!

Diane, I copied Sara's spelling of the word and didn't see it come up on the spelling check. Let's see -- could the correct word be chute? Yes, just confirmed that! So there is our spelling lesson of the day!

Very good suggestions by several about approaches to the sheath cleaning problem.

I had been trying some of these ideas so that I got to the point of being able to pull gunk out of the sheath itself but the penis is always tucked higher up in the second pocket and I never could manage to have Lance let me touch it. Perhaps had I persisted I would have made more progress.

Hosing directed at (much less in) the sheath has never gone well and I have tried that with him in cross ties on the wash rack. His defense is to swing his hip out to bump me to make me stop the hosing. No doubt a methodical and gradual approach of repetitiveness with retreating before a reaction occurs would have likely resulted in some progress.

Anyway, if you try these things, Diane,to avoid injury, be ready for surprise actions by Sam, and the helmet is a good idea.

A friend of mine was kicked in her head nearly four years ago by a horse. She didn't think it serious so did not seek medical care. A couple of days later she couldn't even remember her phone number and she has not been able to resume her R.N. profession ever since.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 1:18 pm:

Diane I've learned a ton reading your posts, but I too hope you don't have any more problems with your herd. You have had more than your fair share. Do you have your vet on speed dial? At least he still answers your calls. And your sense of humor makes my day. Hope your monitor screen isn't ruined.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 2:09 pm:

Of course I hope Diane posts "good news" and gets all those nagging issues resolved.

I have enjoyed and learned from the many hoof issues, got a chance to share some of my pictures of hoofs, and suggestions for trimming. Plus erradicated most of the clover out of my pasture.

And Hank's issues scared me enuf to build my track as part of hoof & horse health. (As have many of the founder threads)

This is turning into a tribute to the crazy meter reader lady, lol!!! And her cresty necked, flared hooved, equines.

I will not be looking at my geldings though any time soon, I am drawing the line there...I mean "under there." I don't want to find anything new!

Best of luck for the rest of the year for healthy horses, hoofs and all, Diane!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 5:05 pm:

Thanks The part 2's do embarass me a bit! I am rather fanatical about trying to keep the horses healthy...my kids are grown and moved away, so they are all I have to fret over

Didn't you notice I tried to talk Dr.O. into pages instead of part 2's At least I haven't had a part 3 YET! WeLL I guess if I lumped all of Hanks hooves threads together they would go to at least a part 10... BUT boy have I learned soooo much from you guys and Dr.O. and my horses show the results of all my part 2's Sound happy and healthy and not real fat!

MY best horse friend moved away quite a few years ago and we always bounced things off each other and rode together all the time. We still keep in touch over the phone. She was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia last year and just went thru a bone marrow transplant, she is doing as well as can be expected. I miss our horse conversations and bouncing ideas off each other.

So now you guys get to listen to me go on and on
Just tell me to shut up when I get long winded!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 6:01 pm:

Hmmm..."just tell me to shut up when I get long winded"....I may clip and save that for later use!

Seriously, we've all learned a lot from your posts, at least I have. Feel free to bounce of me anytime. ( I also have a dear horse friend struggling with cancer. It's rough.)
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 9:11 pm:

We love you, Diane!

And your horses too.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 9:44 pm:

HMMMM I tried the all new bedding trick on Sam, that is a guarantee to pee... he didn't If "it" was broke he'd be sick right??

I wonder if they come in here when I'm at work and read my posts about them and try to figure out ways to drive me nuts(it's working) There has been a lot of mud on the floor lately.

I guess it's time to take Dr.O.'s advice and quit worrying about it, I'm sure Hank can dream up something for me soon I'm going to wait for the vet to get back and let him do the dirty deed, I'm pretty sure those pink "tumors" won't just wash off, even if I could clean Sam I'm sure he wouldn't stand for me scratching them off...he did bleed some when the vet did it.

Vicki Z and all thanks, you guys are all great support and very funny to boot I like a good spit of coffee on my computer in the morning...good way to start the day! Next time I will leave it there and those mischeivious(how ever you spell that) horses won't be able to read my posts
Member:
shirl

Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 11:58 pm:

Diane
Your posts are like reading a good book, one chapter at a time. They are educational, amusing and "real life".
Wish you were "down the road".

Hugs,

Shirl
Member:
lilo

Posted on Friday, Oct 9, 2009 - 10:09 am:

Diane - I always look forward to your posts. You are such a good horse mom, and I have learned a lot. I like the "no problem" one's the best. And I love your photos and funny stories from the perspective of a meter reader.
Lilo
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Oct 9, 2009 - 2:07 pm:

They sure do love to pee on shavings, don't they? The deeper the better, and going in someone else's stall is especially satisfying.

I think that they read our minds.

I too enjoy your posts, Diane, and your perseverance as to finding answers and healing problems.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 1:58 pm:

All I can say is O-M-G

Today is sunny and the horses have been sun bathing out in the dry lot, I figured if Sam was going to hang out this would be when. I haven't seen it since my last pictures.

I went out and brushed them, cleaned the lean-to, cleaned the paddock..No DrOpping.

Finally I was standing there having a conversation with Hank ....watching...slowly he started DrOpping and he hung all the way out, had to sneak around Flash to get a good view, because if I go near him he usually reels it right in.

The BIG pink tumor at the top of his penis is just about gone The rest of the "tumors" ARE gone!!!! His smegma has mostly fallen off except quite a bit right at the head. The "tumors" are not all around his urethra anymore and it looks Almost normal now!!!!!!!

What ever the reason I am thrilled this isn't something serious. The smegma is NOT coming back fast as it always does...pergolide???

SOOO either Dr.O. was right (likely) OR the SMZ's knocked out some sort of infection...OR the pergolide helped. OR all of the above...I wish I would have had my camera so you could see the difference! I have to finish cleaning the lean-to and my chat with Hank later so will take the camera ...just in case
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 6:39 pm:

I got some pictures of the new and improved Sam





comparison and the thing that concerned me most

Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 11:24 pm:

Dr.O. can you tell me now that the pink "tumors" have fallen off or disappeared, are they a part of excess exfoliation and what makes it appear like that? (the "pink tumors") What is the mechanism of them?

Thanks
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 1:37 am:

Hey, Diane, 'lookin good!

I have to say here, that my paint had a tumor on his penis. It was about the size of a walnut. Since it was pedunculated ( mushroom like )the vet tied it off and it dried up and fell off. Unfortunately, a year or so later it came back....large, purple and the size of a plum! Then the vet did surgery ( and the man that took care of my horses saved it for me in a jelly jar - in his fridge, no less ). Now, THOSE were tumors!! It never came back after that.

Love to Hank!
Lee
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 6:40 am:

I can't wait to the vet gets back, he learns as much here as I do...little does he know
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 8:27 am:

Never, ever, look in someone else's refrigerator

(I have to quit reading HA discussions while having breakfast and coffee Thanks Lee!)

Good News Diane!
New Member:
corey101

Posted on Sunday, Oct 25, 2009 - 8:09 pm:

Could someone please tell me if I did an adequate job of sheath cleaning? First time, very cooperative horse. My horse stayed fully DrOpped the entire time. From reading other posts I was expecting to have to insert my arm up to my elbow, but could go no further in than my wrist. Was this because my horse had fully DrOpped his penis? Also could find no sign of a bean. Would this be unusual for a 9-yr.-old gelding that had never had his sheath cleaned? Thanks.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Oct 25, 2009 - 9:16 pm:

Hi Reba if you start our own discussion you may get more responses..A good place to start would be
Horse Care> routine procedures> sheath cleaning.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 28, 2009 - 8:35 am:

For anyone that may get/ see these "tumors" on their male horses... I have noticed Sam is still getting a few. They are stuck to his penis and in a few day to a week they start looking like flaps of skin hanging loose, I take for granted they must fall off then. How weird is that??

Dr.O. thanks for your common sense and excessive exfoliating skin theory. I'm afraid I would have agreed to have them burned off other wise!

I can't find much regarding this condition, is it common on the penis of the horse?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 - 4:03 pm:

Hank was "hanging out" today and I noticed a pink spot on him, not as big as Sam's tho. Now Hank will let me clean him or do anything for the most part to his privates (and enjoy it) SOOO I scratched at the pink spot and it came off along with some accumulated smegma. Sam continues to have these, but they do fall off eventually it seems.

I still wonder why they are pink?? If Hank had the same thing it is not attached to the skin or at least didn't seem to be, but embedded in the smegma.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 - 6:50 pm:

They are pink because the skin that produced them is not pigmented.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 - 7:13 pm:

OH NO now I am confused again! Both geldings penis's are blackwith Hanks being solid black. BUT I can see a pinkish hue under the black(on Hank)... HMMMMM. I'm starting to not like puzzles


Thanks Dr.O.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 - 8:43 pm:

you gotta stop looking
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 - 5:44 am:

Diane a pinkish hue to the black does not really sound like "pink" to me. However in the images above the truly pink exudate comes from nonpigmented skin.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 - 8:07 am:

Ok thanks
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