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Discussion on Weird hoof wear away
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 11:15 am:
My younger mare is shod all around and due for a trim/reset next week.
In the last week, I've noticed the toes of her hind hooves have crumbled a bit and there is a big enough gap you can squirt water through from the front of the toe between the hoof and shoe. Close examination (with the shoe on) doesn't show anything unusual (other than the gap) and she is sound.
On the premise it might be WLD or some other active organism (I'm not sure how to check for this with the shoe on), I've been irrigating with weak betadine after riding.
When the farrier comes out, we will see what we see. But it is so odd that I thought I'd post and see if anyone else had seen this.
TIA.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 6:27 pm:
How long has she been in shoes? Has she previously had any trauma to her hind feet? Can you post pictures?
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 7:34 pm:
Pictures maybe available on Friday. I'm not sure if I can photo it.
She is 9 and has worn shoes all around for quite some time without issue. We are on week 4 of 5 for her shoeing cycle.
No trauma or lamenesses to the hind, other than a puncture wound in her thigh several years ago.
Her front is tricky to shoe as she toes in a bit and you need to support the outside heels to enable an centered breakover and flat landing. You also need to bevel the interior edge of the shoe. She is a bit of a princess about that.
She is schooling around 2nd level dressage, works in a bluestone ring and on grass. For several months we've been doing the ground work prep for piaffe which involves cuing several hind leg lifts for a carrot in the wash stall after riding. It is hard to imagine this would cause trouble.
It has been fairly wet this summer.
I've been around horses for 45+ years and this is a new one for me.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 2:58 am:
Hello Chris,
You use the word "crumbling". When the distal hoof wall crumbles prematurely I do believe a horn infection is at work and this most likely secondary to excessive wetting. I would use something a bit stronger a more persistent than diluted betadine on the effected areas and concentrate on keeping the healthy areas of the wall clean and dry to prevent spread upward. For specific recommendations of this see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Wall Cracks and Thin Sensitive Soles.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 6:33 am:
I was asking about trauma because my sister-in-laws horse just came here, and her front feet look a lot like your horse's hind feet just going by your discription. Our farrier looked at them and thought that the condition was due to past trauma. In her case, this problem has been on going for about a year. If you can post pictures, I'll try and do the same. I'm very curious if we are dealing with the same problem. Like you, I've been around horses my entire life and have never seen this before.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 2:18 am:
Hi Chris, my horse used to get that too, until the farrier comes I squirted Tomorrow(the cow mastitis stuff) in the gap. It is very easy to squirt in there as it has it's own plastic syringe tip.
Turned out it was thrush in the WL for my horse. It was wet too. Once debrided we put sav a hoof gel on it then the shoe over that. he hasn't had thrush in his WL since.
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 - 7:59 am:
Here are a couple of photos of the left hind toe. My digital photography/editing skills are nearly nil, so I hope they work okay.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 - 10:39 am:
It does look like an infection to me. I would want the farrier to come out and cut away any undermined hoof wall.
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 - 1:33 pm:
He is scheduled for the 3rd. I'll bring my camera to take some non-shoe shots if it is interesting.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 - 7:26 pm:
Kathy's mare looks a little different. Troy is coming tomorrow to redo her front feet. (Kathy paid $180 for just regular shoes and the mare lost one in her paddock this a.m.!) Maybe I can get some pictures to compare. I'm anxious to see what our farrier says about her feet. The look a lot like the picture you posted except it looks like just the hoof wall has deteriorated to expose the under structure, kind of like seedy toe I think. And, there is a hole like your horse's hoof has, but it's not as high and longer. Her mare's hoof looks dry. When your horse's hoof isn't wet from washing, does it appear kind of dried out? or is it still darker than normal?
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 3:46 am:
My mare is black and her hooves are always pretty dark. I took the picture after riding but before hosing her off.
I don't normally have a wet/dry reaction when I look at her hooves. I might dab/work a little Corona around the top (periople area) every week or two, but I really don't do much to them.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 7:11 am:
Chris, does your mare drag her toes? The wear on the front of the back feet reminds me of a horse that frequently drags its toes. Combine that with wet conditions and damaged wall and perhaps that's what you end up with? Just a thought to toss out...
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 10:38 am:
Toe dragging is a thought, but I don't think she does (of course I'm riding so can't see) - I think my dressage instructor would be all over that in our lessons as she is exceedingly observant and picky. And I've had her for her whole life, so it would seem that toe dragging would have come up before this.
Today I washed all the crude out and packed each hollow area with a cotton ball and poured some conventional betadine into the cotton. I figured it would stay put for a while and may knock back any active organism.
I am curious what we will see when the farrier comes and am debating whether to leave her hind shoes off a cycle so I can keep an eye on whatever is going on.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 4:10 pm:
I don't see any evidence of toe dragging on the shoe. You can make a better decision to shoe or not to shoe once you see the white line with the shoe off.
DrO
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 12:34 pm:
Update:
After today's farrier visit we observed:
There is a bit of dark ick on the solar perimeter of her hooves, front and back, noticed once her shoes were removed. After normal trimming, the white line looked normal and there was no evidence of WLD/compromise/crumbling.
The eroded toe areas of the hind hooves where I had packed some betadine cotton balls had no dark ick and looked the best prior to trimming after the shoes were removed.
Farrier put a bit of either merthiolate or merthiolade (I couldn't hear well over the fan) on all around after trimming and before shoeing and suggested using one of his nails to clean out between the shoe and the hoof and applying a little betadine a couple of times a week to knock back the black ick.
Farrier and I and riding instructor discussed toe wear and have a theory - we are asking for more collection and the work level has increased. Much of the work is done in the ring with screenings and while the horse doesn't toe drag (you should see her hock articulation), her pushing off from more under herself may be causing some abrasion of the hoof wall from the ring screenings. Soooo, we had the idea to watch her toe wear carefully and if it looked to be starting up again, try a piece of duct tape over the toe for my rides - sort of like a toe boot instead of a leg wrap. If the wear stops, that would suggest the idea is reasonable.
Either that, or we get used to the idea of "wind scoops" on her hind toes, 
We also kicked around the idea of clover ... she is out in a good sized pasture 12 or more hours a day. The drainage is good and there are minimal muddy areas. There is a fair amount of clover and some is the type that makes a horse DrOol and the farrier seemed to think that might be related to the black ick on the sole. (It was a side conversation after she DrOoled on him.)
This triggered a memory from many years ago of my aged horse battling a bit of black on the sole. At that time the farrier, who was very, very old school and trained in Wales suggested in a very thick accent "pinsol" which, written down was Pine Sol cleaning fluid. It worked back then and I even likely have the bottle in my trunk 20 years later. What a packrat.
Anyway, that is our story. Horse is going great (touch wood) so it is more discussion than anything.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 4:19 am:
I still don't think the imaged of the shoe supports the idea of trauma to the toe but like the idea of treating this as a mixed bacterial/fungal infection. Usually the key is the removal of all effected horn and treatment. I do tend to prefer chlorhexidine or formalin as both are more persistent and the formalin actually protective of the horn. But frequent use of betadine may work. It is a bit unusual presentation that neither is exactly Thrush or White Line Disease.
DrO
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 1:17 pm:
I'm not really convinced about the toe thing either. It is possible the organism was most/originally active in the toe, weakening it and the screenings finished it off. Then I came along with my "OMG" and packed soaked betadine cotton balls in the toe holes which cleaned it up in the toe area.
I did wax her hooves, too. Very shiny,  At home, I had a choice of Turtle Wax or Johnson and Johnson's paste wax. I chose the latter as it said it was good for leather, wood floors, etc. which sounded a bit more organic than for autos and trucks.
Betadine is easy to find. Is formalin available OTC? Is the 37% solution for fish tanks the proper dilution?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 4:04 am:
Thrushbuster has formaldehyde but less expensive is to have your veterinarian make up some "sole paint". For more on this see Treatments and Medications for Horses » Antibiotics and Antimicrobials » Formaldehyde and Formalin Use.
DrO
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 6:33 am:
Love the MSDS for it - all those misspent hours in Biology class eons ago are now explained ...
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