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  Discussion on Potential overdose of one or more ingredients of joint supplements on performance/behavior?
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New Member:
be165

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 2:07 pm:

I took my horse to the vet 8/29/2009 to be evaluated for lameness...he was diagnosed with lameness in his hocks & the vet recommended putting him on Myristol. I was already feeding him Acti-Flex & a Vitamin E/Selenium mix. I was told to double up on the Myristol by feeding 2 scoops twice a day for a few days. After feeding him the Myristol, ActiFlex, & Vitamin E/Selenium for a week, I took him to a competition on 9/5/2009. He went totally berserk being stalled up for the weekend. He ran circles in the 10 X 10 stall & tried to jump out of it whenever I took my other horse away. He reared up & cut his head twice on the barn roof. I could not hold him down to a walk to leisurely ride around the facility. I took him around the race track 3 times before running him in the first event, once at a trot & the other two times at a walk...or as close to a walk as I could make him do. When I took him in the arena to run barrels, as I walked him across the arena, he was so jittery it was like he was running in place, & as I turned him towards the pattern, he took off at a dead run heading straight towards the fence. He ran away with me in the next 2 events as well, although I was somehow able to contain him from getting away from me. He has competed for 8 years & has never exhibited this behavior. The only difference in his diet regimen was the addition of Myristol in the increased quantity to his diet. Could he have gotten too much of some ingredient that would've caused his behavior?
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 4:04 pm:

Melissa, a few thoughts cross my mind. The horse was diagnosed as lame...but from what? Is he arthritic, did he have an injury? Perhaps between the time of diagnosis and the show (just 8 days), he was still sore and objecting to being put back to work. Also, was he on stall rest prior to the competition? If so, perhaps he just had too much pent up energy. New competition grounds?

How was his behavior right before the competition (while still at home) and right after? I don't know what Myristol is, but it seems unlikely that he was reacting to that if he was well behaved right before the show and right after.

Sorry, none of this provides answers, but gives you something to consider while trying to get to the bottom of his behavior changes.
New Member:
be165

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 4:24 pm:

He was diagnosed as being a little sore in his hocks. He showed no visible signs of lameness in the lameness exam, only as the vet did the flexation of his hocks. The horse is 11. He is pastured & only goes in his stall to eat, so it not from pent up energy. Competition grounds were not new...I've gone there a few times a year for the last several years. Actually that is one of the few arenas where he runs the best because he likes the footing in the arena. During the show, his behavior with me was fine so long as I wasn't riding him...and when I did ride him, he showed no signs of being sore.

Myristol is a joint supplement that is very expensive & you can only get it at the vet. Since he had been getting 4 X the normal daily dosage, when combined with the other supplements he was on, my thinking is that he got too much of something that caused him to be overly hyper. He is 16.2 hands, so he's a big boy...and I've always been able to control him just fine. At least until he'd been on the increased dosage of (2) different joint supplements. I found one website that said that there were some natural ingredients in the Myristol that may have reacted with the Vitamin E & Selenium I was feeding him.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 4:46 pm:

Melissa, his behavior was fine until he was under saddle, except for his running around and acting frantic while in the stall? Personally, I wouldn't call that "fine." LOL. Were there extra B vitamins in his mix of supplements? I've heard they can give too much energy. Also, a wild thought came to me; is there a possibility of something in his stall stinging him? My cousin had a stallion that had a couple of wasps in his stall which stung him and he went totally beserk for quite a while. Just a thought.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 4:52 pm:

Hi Melissa, I have(had) one of my horses on Acti-flex, and I believe in one of the discussions we had about it something was mentioned that the bioperine in the actiflex can magnify ingredients of other supplements due to slowing down absorption ...or something like that. Since your horse is getting such a high dose maybe that could cause a problem...dunno

Found the thread
https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/196492.html
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 5:50 pm:

Welcome Melissa,
There have been no toxicological studies, or any studies for that matter, published in refereed veterinary journals of the use of Myristol (Cetyl Myristoleate) in horses. Experimental use of this product in a number of different arthritis models has not been encouraging for a beneficial effect but I have not seen any adverse effects reported either. So we really do not know if this was a cause or not but discontinuing the treatment is unlikely to adversely effect the health of your horse. For more on this see the Arthritis Overview treatment section.

Does the other horse normally travel with you?
DrO
New Member:
be165

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 6:00 pm:

In response to Sara, I don't recall what Vitamins were in the supplements, if they weren't specifically identified as Vitamin A,B, etc., I'm really not sure. Nope, I don't think there were any wasps...the best analogy I can think of is that he was acting like a breeding stallion that is trying to get to a mare on the other side of the fence.

In response to Diane, he was getting the increased dose of the Myristol. That is interesting about bioperine magnifying ingredients of other supplements. I will have to look into that. I have cut him off of ALL supplements for a week, & will start him back on 1/2 dosage of the Myristol only next week. At some point, I've got to muster up the courage to take him back to an arena to see if his behavior is any different after being taken off of the high dosages...
New Member:
be165

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 6:07 pm:

Response to Oglesby, DVM :

Sometimes I take this horse, sometimes I take other horses, sometimes he goes by himself...but irregardless of which of my other horses I take, or if I take him alone, he has NEVER exhibited this type of behavior. The way he behaves at a show has always been the same, until I added the increased dosage of Myristol to his diet regimen.

His normal diet (before the Myristol) consisted of a 10% sweet feed, daily strongid wormer, daily electrolytes, 1 scoop Acti-Flex, & 1 scoop Vitamin E/Selenium. Once I added the increased dosage of Myristol, he started behaving as if he was high on speed.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 9:50 pm:

Discontinuing the treatment is unlikely to adversely effect the health of your horse Melissa.
DrO
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 6:57 am:

DrO,

Wouldn't increasing the affects of selenium make the horse extremely tired? If the bioperine magnified the other ingredients.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 8:41 am:

Angie it does not sound like tiredness was this horse's problem nor are the symptoms consistent with acute or chronic selenium toxicity. I get the impression the horse had been on this combination for a while prior to the incident.

If there are no other identifiable causes of this behavior I think the thing to do is to discontinue the new medication. It is possible that the bioperine effects the Myristol and that this effect has some psychological effects but this is highly conjectural.
DrO
New Member:
be165

Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 10:07 am:

Here are the ingredients of Myristol:
Cetyl myristoleate fatty acid complex 5000 mg
Glucosamine HCl (shell fish) 4500 mg
MethylSulfonylMethane (MSM) 4500 mg
HyDrOlyzed Collagen 3000 mg
DL-Methionine 1534 mg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) 1000 mg
Manganese (Mn) 250 mg
Zinc (Zn) 250 mg
Copper (Cu) 50 mg

Here are the ingredients of Acti-Flex:
Glucosamine Sulfate 8,000 mg.
ChonDrOitin Sulfate 4,000 mg.
Type II Collagen 3,000 mg.
MSM 3,000 mg.
Ester C (Ascorbic Acid) 1,000 mg.
Perna Canaliculus 1,000 mg.
Yucca 150 mg.
Hyaluronic Acid (HA) 125 mg.
Bioperine 100 mg.

I don't know the ingredients of the Vitamin E & Selenium supplement...I think Vitamin E, Selenium, & Zinc.

Selenium wasn't the ingredient that was increased.
The Myristol ingredients were increased X4. All else remained constant. I don't see flaxseed in the Myristol ingredients...is it a combination of some of the ingredients?
Member:
be165

Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 10:15 am:

My horse needs to be on a joint supplement, & my vet recommends the Myristol only at 1/2 dosage. No ActiFlex & no Vitamin E/Selenium.

What I am trying to find out is if I do this, will the "hyper" behavior he exhibited this past weekend go away? And did the dramatically increased dosage of the Myristol ingredients jeopardize his health any? I know that stopping the increased dosage won't hurt him...but he was on it for several days...so is there a risk that it did any damage to his system.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 11, 2009 - 8:09 am:

Melissa, since a known cause of the odd behavior has not been identified, whether it is permanent or not is also unknown.

The idea that Myristol caused this problem is a highly conjectural hypothesis. We have no known mechanism for this hypothesis and all things considered think it unlikely but not impossible. I do find considering discontinuing this expensive supplement of questionable value (at least when compared with more traditional joint nutraceuticals) laudable, whether it is the cause of the behavioral problem or not.

Horses often display bouts of odd behavior for unknown reasons only to return to their good old selves with time. And so it probably is in this case. Remember that how we react to such events can play a part as to how the horse comes out of the event. Returning the horse to as normal a routine as quick as possible and rewarding good behavior are the mainstays of insuring the best possible outcome.
DrO
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