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  Discussion on Possible case of Pigeon Fever
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Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 27, 2009 - 8:09 pm:

My yearling colt has been turned out by himself for the past 2 1/2 months in a fairly large pasture which had been empty for several months. Two weeks after he was turned out a skin fold developed on his chest between his front legs a little to the left of center. I didn't think it was anything serious and just monitored it. Other than this strange skin fold, he did not nor is he now exhibiting any other signs of illness.

Over the past few days, I have noticed that this skin fold is getting larger. It is hard, no heat and no reaction to palpation. It doesn't seem to bother him at all.

I tried to get pictures of it but they came out blurry so other than seeing this thing hang down on his chest you can't see anything else.

I didn't think of Pigeon fever until I went to do some research on swellings on this site and looked at the description of swellings in the chest area. Until I came to this site a year or so ago, I'd never even heard of pigeon fever!

Also, when talking to a friend of mine that has horses at the same farm, she told me that her horses when put in that same paddock came down with something similar. She thinks it was from the horses that were there a few years ago that were not taken care of very well. The original infection could have come from them. I am not sure how long Pigeon Fever can stay in the environment. My friend slathered Icathamol on the swellings and they eventually went away.

If this is Pigeon fever will the abcess burst on its own? Should I hasten it by hot packing or can I just put Icathamol on it and leave it be. Is it best to just leave him where he is until this bursts, and can he get reinfected once he has healed.

One other thing, this seemed to change after I wormed him with Ivermectin about a week or so ago.
Thanks
Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 8:53 am:

One of the first things we look at when diagnosing a disease is whether it is endemic in an area. As far as I know Pigeon Fever is not reported in NJ. Where the previous horses from the West?

To answer your direct question about will it rupture, the answer is yes if it is an abscess from any cause it will in time rupture. But that may not be the best way to treat it, for more see Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Abscesses and Localized Infection.

Another common problem that appears like this is hematoma/seromas on the chest secondary to trauma. Because the skin is somewhat pendulous and there is no other place for the swelling to go, if large enough when they start they continue to grow as gravity pulls on them. Such swellings generally need drainage established.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 9:33 am:

Dr. O,

I do not know the history of the other horses that used the paddock.

The reason I ruled out trauma is he is not out with anyone, the fencing is safe, plastic and hot wire. There is nothing he can get caught on and he is not one to run around like a banshee and run into a fence. He's pretty quiet and well behaved.

There was nothing there but a very soft small skin flap with no fill until a week or so ago.

The fact that pigeon fever is not endemic in NJ, does not mean that it cannot occur, but like me others may not know how to identify it, if it did occur and it might be misdiagnosed as something else.

Here is another piece of this colt's history. He was diagnosed with Rhodococcus as a foal. He had no symptoms, other than a high fibrinogen level. It was caught very early and most likely would never have been caught, if not for another foal that was showing symptoms. The Breeding farm decided to test every baby in that particular field and thats how it was caught in him. He had had the plasma treatment prior to this ( expensive, but useless as far as I was concerned).

Now I am wondering if that disease could lay dormant and appear externally where it has in my colt and if there are any other internal abcesses that may cause a problem in the future.

I think the fact that other horses on the same farm and using the same paddock have had similar symptoms leads me away from trauma and towards some type of other cause.

If this does resolve itself, can it reappear elsewhere and cause other problems. In other words, if I treat it as an abcess, and it does burst and I treat it accordingly, will that be it or will I be constantly looking for another abcess going forward with this colt.

I read the articles you mentioned before I posted my questions.

Rachelle
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 3:25 pm:

I managed to get a fairly decent picture of this. It definitely does not bother him. My problem with it is that he is due to come in and start jogging and whatever this thing is is right in the way of the buxton. I can put a regular breast collar on him or tow him if need be. But, I'd sure like to figure this thing out before I bring him back to the other farm.

I also spoke to the vet and he said that he hasn't heard of pigeon fever in NJ. He also told me to put DMSO gel on it to see if it would flatten out? I decided on Icthamol and poultice and see what it looks like tomorrow.

Uncharted Speed's hanging ornament
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 4:53 pm:

Yikes! That's huge and not where I'd pictured it. I had in mind further up. You know, I had a young mare that had a similar, though not as big, bump and best we could figure she had somehow hit herself or run into something. It was fluid filled, and when lanced it healed fine.

Many years ago I had a mare that had pigeon fever. Her first bump was between her front legs on her lower chest, further foward and up a little higher than this bump. That bump lost it's hair. I don't know enough to know if all pigeon fever bumps do that or not. However, I'm just headed to the pigion fever article because my farrier just told me that there have been several cases lately in our valley. Never heard of it here before.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 5:12 pm:

Sara,

To me this feels solid, no squishy stuff. It also looks as if its moved more toward the center line of his chest or it could be that since its getting larger it just looks like its moving.

Like I said earlier, this enlargement has only happened after I wormed with zimectrin about 10 days ago so I am wondering if it is related.

Prior to that he was wormed with Safeguard. Now unless there is something in the Safeguard that can cause the original skinfold issue and assuming this is not pigeon fever or trauma. Any other guesses as to what might be causing this?

Rachelle
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 7:26 pm:

Does it move? Like is it in the skin or could there be muscle involved? It's weird. I've never heard of Ivermectin causing anything like this; maybe someone else has.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 7:40 pm:

Sara,

I know years ago when Ivermectin first came out, it was given as an injectable shot. Some horses got reactions ( midline edema) from the high kill rate of the parasites.

I am not sure if the current pastes can have that same reaction only milder and if so that may explain what this is. But it still does not explain the original skin fold ( I'll call it a big wrinkle) that was there before this enlargement happened.

As far as I can tell it moves with the skin and feels like a large banana.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Sep 28, 2009 - 10:30 pm:

I didn't know that about the Ivermectin. Interesting. Does this colt seem hyper-reactive to things? If so, I'd think that might make a reaction to the Ivermectin more plausable.

The wrinkle bit is really weird. I'll be following this to see what you come up with.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 - 9:36 am:

Hello Rachelle,
Your statement "The fact that pigeon fever is not endemic in NJ, does not mean that it cannot occur" is certainly true. But whether the disease is reported in your area of not greatly effects the chance it is the cause of your horse's problems. You should first start with the most likely possibilities. If you are hear many hoof beats come up behind you do you first consider it is probably a herd of horses or a herd of zebras and which assumption will be right more often?

To dismiss trauma as a cause of swelling in horses is usually a mistake no matter how safe the environs. I have seen horses seriously hurt themselves where there are no fences or other horses, so I would not let go of that possibility here. It truly is the "horse" guess about those hoof beats but not the only important rule out.

Generally abscesses are tight, hot, and painful before rupture. This looks more like passive edema: cool, flucuent, and not painful. The dependent nature suggests that gravity has brought this here from further up (more dorsally) the horse. This is not typical for the ivermectin reactions we use to see and described in our article on Onchocerciasis.

The question is whether this will resolve on its own or need draining. The fact that it is worsening suggests one of two things:
1) It is making itself wore by sucking in more fluid.
2) The cause is ongoing.
Either may need attention. For more on other possible causes of ventral edema beside edema see Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses.
DrO
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 - 10:25 am:

Dr. O,

I put icathamol and poultice on this yesterday afternoon and this morning when I fed, it looked much smaller. I will try and get a picture and compare it with what was there yesterday.

Also, I am wondering if what I am seeing now could be the result of him getting a splinter higher up and having it migrate down here. He used to rub his chest and neck on the side of the wooden run in shed at the other farm. I never saw any entry wounds or injuries, but that does not mean it couldn't happen.

If this does turn out to be the case could it take upwards of three months to present itself?

Thanks, and I know what you mean about hearing horses instead of zebras, sometimes I fear the worst only to find out it was something simple. That's my horse OCD kicking in.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2009 - 8:08 am:

Sounds more like a zebra than a horse Rachelle.
DrO
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