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  Discussion on Blood in Urine
Author Message
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2009 - 6:43 pm:

Dr. O, I have read over all of your urinary systems articles and none seem to address directly what I am having a problem with.

My 12 year old saddle horse (gelding), Joe, was on a ride today. First off I noticed he was off a little...one of those things a owner just knows when his horse is not "normal". He normally wants to be at the front of the pack and racks wide open, with no trotting, walking, or anything other than staying in his gate. He has to be made to walk.

Well today, he did not want to do anything but walk. When I put him into his gait, he was just not right, although I couldn't tell what was wrong.

I stopped him after only 15 minutes of riding, and did a head to tail exam. I checked out all of his feet, bits, just anything I could think of.

I found nothing wrong, but when I got back on him, he urinated and it was almost pure blood. It wasn't just an odd color, like he had been eating red clover or anything, but was genuine blood.

He went downhill from there, and by the time we got him back to the truck he had his nose all the way on the ground and no amount of coaxing would get him to do anything other than a slow walk.

The vet cannot come out until tommorrow afternoon, so I am trying to figure out what to do until then. Any help or suggestions as to what is going on would be appreciated.

Kidney stones/problems, ruptured bladder, bladder stones? He is not tender upon palpation, and is passing normal stools. He is eating tonight, but very slowly.

When we got home, he nickered and ran over to the other horses like normal. He has not drank any water is the only other thing out of whack.

If you think this is an emergency I can take him to the equine hospital in Lexington quicker than the closest vet can be out here. Also, any care I can give him? If this is a kidney infection, I can give him a pennicillin shot, but I am hesitant to do anything right now.

Any ideas?
Member:
pattyb

Posted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2009 - 8:23 pm:

Jesse....while you're waiting for DrO to reply, I'm curious what his temperature is...have you taken it? Pulse? Respiration? Color of gums? Those would play into my decision on what to do while waiting.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2009 - 8:45 pm:

Jesse,
by any chance has your horse not gotten his regular exercise or turn out due to the bad weather. It sounds to me like he tied up. the fact that he didn't want to move and the blood in his urine. It could of course be something else, I think Dr. O has an article on this. It used to be called Monday Morning sickness because it usually showed up on Monday Morning after work horses stood in their stalls all day on Sunday.

It can usually be detected in a blood test that shows high SGOT and CPK levels. Was he ok on Saturday?

Rachelle
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2009 - 8:47 pm:

Jesse,
by any chance has your horse not gotten his regular exercise or turn out due to the bad weather. It sounds to me like he tied up. the fact that he didn't want to move and the blood in his urine. It could of course be something else, I think Dr. O has an article on this. It used to be called Monday Morning sickness because it usually showed up on Monday Morning after work horses stood in their stalls all day on Sunday.

It can usually be detected in a blood test that shows high SGOT and CPK levels. Was he ok on Saturday?

Here is the thread
https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/5348.html


Rachelle
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Sunday, Nov 1, 2009 - 10:36 pm:

His temp is normal, Patty and all other vitals as well.

Rachelle, he has not been rode in a while, but we took a short 2 mile ride Friday and he was fine. Saturday he was picketed out to graze for about two hours. (In normal grass, no clover or any other oddities, just fescue and timothy).

If he had not tried to quit on the ride today, I would have never noticed anything as far as how he looks. The blood was very noticable, but out in the pasture I might have missed that as well.

He has none of the muscle stiffness or tight painful muscles that is common when tying up. No stiff gait or anything like that. He is out of shape, like I said earlier as he had not been rode in about a month other than the short ride on Friday.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Nov 2, 2009 - 6:12 am:

Jesse,

Some horses do not show all the classic symptoms of tying up. I had a mare about 20 years ago that I turned out at night and exercised every day. I had no problems with her. When it started to get chilly at night I stopped turning her out as much but she was still jogging and training. One day I noticed that she was standing in the back of her stall flapping her bottom lip and this was not normal for her, so I had the vet draw blood. Her SGOT came back at almost 30,000. This mare was tying up with no other outward signs except for the lip flapping and slightly depressed attitude.
I changed her feed ( no sweetfeed) and put her back on her turnout schedule and she was fine. This mare's symptoms were very subtle and if had I not picked up on the lip flapping and attitude change ( like you did with your horse), it could have had more serious consequences.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 2, 2009 - 8:40 am:

Jesse, by all means you should consider the combination of frank blood in the urine and poor doing a emergency and have a veterinarian look at the horse immediately.

If the difficulty getting the horse moving is stiffness instead of depression I agree with rtrotter that this is more likely myoglobin from rhabdomyolysis (looks just like blood but not as thick) which would also likely be an emergency as the myoglobin can damage the kidneys and fluid diureses beneficial for more see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Muscle & Tendon Diseases » Rhabdomyolysis: Tying Up, Shivers, PSSM, EPSM.
DrO

PS: Jesse, we do not recommend the Horseadvice.com be used for emergency situations and the rule of thumb is if you are uncertain as to the seriousness of the problem you should always contact a veterinarian. We do not have the resources to be sure these boards are monitored for emergency situations. We can help you with how to assess such problem however. One of the best ways to determine how serious a problem would be to take the vital signs and assess them for abnormalities. For more on this see Diseases of Horses » First Aid » Taking Temperature, Pulse, and Respiration.
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Monday, Nov 2, 2009 - 2:51 pm:

Dr. O, thanks for your help.I understand what you are saying about emergencies, but unfortunely emergency services for horses out here in the sticks is nonexistent. A two and a half hour drive to the closest equine hospital and a hour and a half drive to the closest equine vet. I had already placed a call to the vet before posting and was hoping to supplement what I already knew and he had told me.

He has just left, and he thinks that Joe has a very bad UTI. He has none of the classic symptoms of tying up, and he said the urine color was wrong, but that he did indeed have blood and not the maroonish/orange color that comes with tying up.

We have him on antibiotics and took some blood tests and will follow up in 48 hours. He also left the material to start an IV if he doesn't start drinking by this evening.

Thanks again all for your help and I will keep you posted so if any run into the same problem.

PS. He is checking the blood for other things as well, so I will let you know what those results are as well.
Member:
erika

Posted on Monday, Nov 2, 2009 - 5:06 pm:

Good luck Jesse. I was just wondering how you are since I hadn't seen you post in a while.
How did the kicked dog ever make out? Is his jaw healed?
Erika
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 2, 2009 - 11:20 pm:

Jesse, from the information we have so far I would note that he had the primary symptom of tying up while not having many of the common symptoms of a UTI. The primary symptom is the difficulty to get to move you describe in your first post while urinary tract infections tend to present with a frequent attempt to urinate and does not cause depression unless perhaps it has ascended to the kidney's and caused failure.

However none of this conjecture is worth a good exam so we will assume the vet sees something not described here.
DrO
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 12:24 am:

Dr. O, thanks again and it is my fault that I was not more clear in the first post. He had no muscle stiffness, just a general depression where he just did not want to go at all, but when he did he showed no signs of muscle problems. The vet actually seen him pee today, and while there was not as much blood in it as the first time, it was still present and he was able to get a sample. He also drew blood for a renal panel, cbc, and to check for the markers for EPSM.

Erika, thanks for asking. I have been absent for a couple of months due to some health problems. I had viral meningitis and while performing the CT they found a tumor on my pituitary gland in my brain. It turned out that the menengitis was a blessing in disguise as it turned out to be an agressive tumor. I have just finished radiation therapy and had a "special" type of MRI on Friday to make sure it was not growing again.

Rebel is doing the best, although he has kind of a crooked jaw. Cheyenne was shot by some teenagers who thought it would be cool to drive through neighborhoods shooting cows and horses. It did not kill her and she laid there overnight and we had to finish the job the next day.

But while all of that sounds bad, I consider myself blessed with a great family, good friends, and a future with the King of Kings. I will post a full update in the lounge so as not to distract too much from this original post.

Again, Dr. O, please forgive my lack of details as i have not did much clinical work while undergoing treatment, so I am a little rusty. I will post lab results as soon as I get them. Thanks again.
Member:
canter

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 7:23 am:

Jessie, I am very sorry to hear of all your troubles. My condolances on Cheyenne - I hope they caught the punks that did it. I don't want to distract further from this thread, but wanted to extend my best wishes to you. I hope you are making a full recovery yourself.
Member:
pattyb

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 10:53 am:

Dear Jesse,

I am sooo sorry to read about Cheyenne and your surgery...you have been thru a lot dear person.

((((((((((Jesse and Cheyenne))))))))))

I'm watching your thread and hoping your lab results come back clear and that the UTI is the only thing you're having to deal with now. How is Joe doing today?
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 10:57 am:

What challenging times.

Prayers for strength and good health.
Member:
erika

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 7:06 pm:

Thoughts and prayers are with you, Jesse.
Erika
Member:
lilo

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 7:54 pm:

So sorry to hear about your troubles. Best wishes for a brighter future,
Lilo
Member:
paul303

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 8:58 pm:

Heartfelt prayers and wishes for easier times.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 4, 2009 - 8:39 am:

No need for apologies Jesse, the important thing is that the best shot at getting your horse a good diagnosis and treatment be taken. Has the bladder been palpated for stones? However the lack of straining to urinate suggests to me if this is do to urinary stones they may be in the renal pelvis. Keep us informed.
DrO
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Friday, Nov 6, 2009 - 9:49 pm:

Well, I have some bad news to report. After checking on Joe last night several times, I still could get no food down, but he was drinking. When I went out this morning he was gone.

This guy was probably the best horse I have ever owned. A barn full of trophies and my five year old could ride him at a full pace and not jounce at all.

His cause of death was ruled acute kidney failure. He was a very pampered horse and had a very controlled diet, so I am not sure what I did wrong here. He will be almost impossible to replace. He is the second we have lost- Cheyenne was shot by hoodlums (who were sentenced to three years in jail Monday BTW) and then Joe.

Not sure why it happens to the best ones...seems like the man upstairs has a weird sense of humor, huh?

We are doing an autopsy, and the vet has already said he had some pretty badly diseased kidneys with one bleeding pretty bad. It must have been bleeding a while because the old blood in his abdominal cavity had already set up sepsis.

Thanks for your prayers again guys.
Member:
shirl

Posted on Friday, Nov 6, 2009 - 11:16 pm:

Jesse, my sincere condolences on your loss. It's such a difficult thing to go through especially with a very special friend. Prayers for you and your family.
Shirl
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 12:18 am:

Jesse,

I'm so sorry to read of your health difficulties and the loss of Cheyenne and now Joe. What a difficult time for you. My heart goes out to you.

Take good care,

Jo Ann
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 6:31 am:

Jesse,

I am so sorry about your horses and all the trials and tribulations of the past few months.

I can be very daunting to have so many bad things happens in such a short period of time, but God gives these tests to people he knows can handle them, it makes us stronger.

Godspeed to Joe and Cheyenne and God Bless you.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 7:21 am:

My deepest condolences Jesse.
DrO
Member:
canter

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 10:05 am:

Oh, Jessie, what sad, sad news. I am very sorry. In your post, you say that you are not sure what you did wrong. I hope that you are not blaming yourself. Sometimes, these sad things just happen for reasons we don't understand and for causes unknown and/or not within our control.

I wish you peace and comfort~
Fran
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 10:14 am:

I am very sorry to hear of this sad outcome, Jesse and hope that the autopsy will yield some answers for you.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 11:17 am:

Such sad news! So sorry you lost Joe - he sounded just like the perfect horse.
My sincere condolences,
Lilo
Member:
frances

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 11:31 am:

What to say? I am truly sorry to hear of Joe and Cheyenne's demises, and of all the terrible things you've had to endure recently, Jesse. I am sure Joe's kidney failure was in no way due to your care - you know you've done your best throughout.

I hope the dark clouds that have been plaguing you will lift very soon. Deepest sympathy.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 11:44 am:

Jesse I want to add my deepest condolences, hope things turn around for you soon.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 10:20 pm:

So sorry Jesse to hear your family's loss.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Saturday, Nov 7, 2009 - 11:41 pm:

Oh, Jesse, such pain. But Joe and Cheyenne were about the good times, the fun times, in your life.

Give them the honor of remembering only the wonder. The wonder is what they had to give to you. Remember the good.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Nov 8, 2009 - 8:40 am:

I am so sorry to hear you have been tested so much lately. God Bless you, and Joe, and Cheyenne.

Angie
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