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  Discussion on GCT?
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Member:
dsibley

Posted on Monday, Jan 18, 2010 - 10:24 pm:

My 9-y/o QH mare has been exhibiting some abnormal behavior lately. While 'hot' bred, she is normally compliant and good-natured. She has always been cinchy...hates having the girth tightened; however, once she gets over the first couple of minutes, she is fine. I also noticed that this is worse when she is in season.
Now, in mid-January, the mare is in full season. She has been stalled next to a non-aggressive gelding for a year. For four days, she has been backing up to to the stall grate and 'squirting'. She has never done this. I took her out of the stall today and tied her close to, but not in contact with, another gelding's stall. She stood and 'squirted' again.
Fresca has seemed very agitated and 'hot' when I ride her for the last several days. Again, January in the mid-west is cold, overcast, and dreary. No reason to think she should be coming into full season this early...no stallions on the premises and no lights to breed early.
Dr. O, what do you think? Should I have her tested/palpated for possible GCT, or might there be another cause?
She is a performance horse, so is worked 5 or 6 days a week; again, no stallions, no lights, NO REASON!! }
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 6:34 pm:

No, I don't think a mare acting as though she is in heat in January is enough to consider GCT. It is not that abnormal. People often confuse anestrus (winter time not cycling) and diestrus (summertime out of heat between estrus). It is the progesterone released in the summer that makes mares actively refuse sexual advances. In the winter time both the hormones that cause "actively in heat" and "actively out of heat" behavior are missing. Many mares under such conditions, if stimulated enough, will appear to be receptive or at least uncaring.

Then again I cannot rule out the possibility from this information either.
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 8:44 pm:

Thank you, Dr.O! I talked to my vet today at length. We are going to test a period of time on Regumate. She has a history of increasingly bad behavior when in season, including being very 'cinchy', pinning ears at anything that moves (NOT good in the warm-up pen) kicking the stall walls at other horses, and being very 'hot' in the arena. I think I can trace all these behaviors to her cycle, and we're going to see if the Regumate will make a difference. I'm going to keep a daily log, just to note my observations. I don't want to keep her on this long-term, but I also hope to be able to show her successfully this year.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 7:27 am:

A mare showing behavioral changes particularly increasing aggression is suspicious of GCT.
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 9:39 pm:

That was my take from reading your (wonderful) articles. Am I correct in my assumption that if it is a GCT that the Regumate will have little or no affect on the behavior?
After two doses, she seems to have stopped 'squirting', and when I let my very beautiful and very 'studdy' gelding nose up to her thru the stall grates, she had no reaction. Normally, she would squeal like a pig. Today I rode her, and although she was still very 'hot' at first, she then calmed down and paid attention to me. It took way less time today than it has taken for the last ten days or so. She was still cinchy, but not nearly as bad as before. Still very, very reactive when I touch her where the belly meets the hind leg. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 7:34 am:

Few if any have had luck using hormonal manipulations with controlling GCT but I would not say it will have no effect. The milieu of hormones released by a GCT is very variable so hard to predict what might happen in any one case.
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Friday, Jan 22, 2010 - 1:08 am:

We are using the Regumate to see if there is any significant change in her behavior. I think if it works, it pretty much rules out a GCT? If not, then we might need to further explore the issue?
I am really hoping it works. For her sake as well as mine.
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 9:10 pm:

Update: Not much improvement with the Regumate. While she is not exhibiting the 'heat' behaviors as before, this mare is like an overwound clock when under saddle. As noted before, she is somewhat 'hot' bred, and has always been a bit of a pistol, but now when I DrOp the reins, she just wants to run. She is extremely well trained as a reining horse, and we have been doing very well until about a week or so before my first post. She has been checked for back soreness, there are no lameness issues, I haven't gained weight, no change in saddle, pad, bit, etc. that would cause this reaction.
My trainer has ridden her for the last couple of days and she's the same with him...he's the one that has trained her from Day 1, and he agrees that this behavior is abnormal.
There is no fever, she is eating normally, good gut sounds. Any ideas to help me?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 29, 2010 - 6:47 am:

If you feel this is not a training issue, and you believe you have ruled out pain as a cause, are you planning to test for GCT?
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Friday, Jan 29, 2010 - 1:09 pm:

I'm sure it's not a training issue. We were doing well until just before my first post. It was a very sudden onset. Someone has suggested that she might have a small ulcer. I am going to see if a regimen of Ulcergard will work. My vet will be here Feb 24 for spring shots, and I want to try to rule out as much as possible prior to that.
The only thing that we have changed is I put a light on her to try to get her shed out. It goes on at 5pm and off at 1:00 am. Could she be suffering from sleep deprivation? LOL!
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 - 9:16 pm:

I rode Fresca today; she was marginally better. Not much. I noticed that when I dismounted, she would rest one hind leg and looked a little drawn in the flank area. Nothing major. I went over her with a fine-tooth comb and maybe found something. Just in front of her udder is an area (equal in size bilaterally) about the size of my hand that seems swollen. It is not edematous but rather hard. Palpation causes some minor discomfort; i.e., she will shift her weight and pull up one hind leg slightly.
My trainer and I compared this with three other mares, none were as noticeable as her. Note that she is NOT bred and has now been on Regumate for two weeks.
Dr. O, your thoughts?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 - 6:03 am:

I am uncertain what you are seeing/feeling dieliz and not sure how this figures in with the behavior you have described. Since she is cinchy it is not surprising she does not like you fooling with her belly, it is a pretty common reaction even when not painful.
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Thursday, Feb 4, 2010 - 9:20 pm:

I had the vet out this week, just to r/o anything that might be wrong. She did a rectal and an ultrasound of the ovaries. All findings were WNL, and she said the ovaries were 'dormant' and unremarkable, and of equal size. Great news! She also ran a CBC, of course took her vitals, and all were normal. She is not overly concerned about the swelling in front of the teats. She doesn't feel it is mastitis, but could be causing some discomfort. I don't know if it preceded the start of the Regumate. We have agreed that I will watch it for another two weeks, and keep riding her to see if the Regumate has any further effect. From reading the articles, and talking with the vet, I believe we have ruled out a GCT, the vet feels that the symptoms were from transitional estrus, and that the current regimen should be effective, as it has shown results so far. Keep your fingers crossed!!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 5, 2010 - 7:55 am:

Good job, dieliz, the finding of equal size dormant ovaries does make GCT much less likely. Reading back over your post does make me think of another posting I have seen here this week: is it possible your horse is becoming bored or overwrought with a tight training schedule and in need of a good airing out along the trails?
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Friday, Feb 5, 2010 - 10:52 am:

What do they say about great minds? (OK one great one and the other still trying...!!) I have started taking her on outings...new arenas, other barns, etc. Just a ride in the trailer, then back home. Trails will be an option when this dumb snow melts...she has sliders on the back. I hope this will make a difference in her attitude and overall performance. She has started coming around, slowly, so either the Regumate is working, or the outings. Thanks! I will keep you posted, but I feel comfortable that it is likely NOT a GCT.
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Saturday, Feb 20, 2010 - 11:21 pm:

Well, I hope I have found the cause (but maybe not the culprit?) of the behavior. I rode Fresca on Tuesday this week, she was a raving B****. When we could end on a good note, I did a cursory physical exam, and also cleaned her teats. I noted that the swelling was still present in front of her udders, and placed a call to my vet. as it has been over two weeks.
The next day, my neighbor, who has had horses for 30 years, was over. I told him about the swelling, and was going to have him check it. The mare actually kicked him, which was something she has never done. Thank goodness he was watching for it and was out of the way! At any rate, he felt under her belly and found that one teat was swollen and hard. The gland leading to the teat was also very swollen and hard. The other teat was just a little edamatous but not anything like the one on the right.
My vet recommended 30 ml of sulfa a day and 10 ml of banamine bid. Said it is likely mastitis. She will be here on Wednesday next week and if no better then we will go to the 'next step'
Dr O?
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Sunday, Feb 21, 2010 - 7:49 am:

One other interesting thing to note is that the CBC came back normal three weeks ago. If this had been working on her, wouldn't that have had an elevated white count?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 21, 2010 - 9:23 am:

Did your veterinarian examine the horse dieliz? A acutely swollen, hot, painful teat would be a typical description of mastitis. Fever and CBC might be variable but with a very active infection I would expect abnormalities at the time of the exam. I don't know about 3 weeks ago.
Then again a mare that kicks when her belly or inguinal area are examined is not that rare either.

The initial treatment seems appropriate for mastitis though I would have preferred before beginning a culture of any fluid in the teat. If the organism is sensitive it may require a longer course than 14 days.
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Sunday, Feb 21, 2010 - 11:03 am:

My vet was here three weeks ago when I first noticed the swelling in front of the teats. That was an area about the diameter of a grapefruit, but not as full. At that time there were no abnormalities in the teats. She let me clean the area with no problem and allowed the vet to examine her.
The vet performed a rectal as well as an ultrasound exam to be sure the ovaries were OK. I also asked for a CBC just to be on the safe side. Everything at that time was fine.
The finding of the swelling in one teat and the mammary gland was more recent, as was the kicking episode. She was started on the sulfa on Tuesday, but today the swelling is actually worse.
The vet is due out on Wednesday for spring shots. Should I wait until then or call and ask her to come out earlier and do a culture?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 21, 2010 - 6:09 pm:

dieliz, only through examination can the next best step be made expecially since this is worsening. A reexam sounds like it is indicated and then further diagosis and treatment can best be decided on the results of that.

Usually culturing while on antibiotics is not very successful. Even bacteria that are not very sensitive are suppressed in the presence of the antibiotic.
DrO
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Sunday, Feb 21, 2010 - 7:05 pm:

OK, thanks. I'm now out of the sulfa (had some on hand that wasn't expired) as the new shipment didn't arrive. So, I'm going to see how she is tomorrow, it will be 24 hours off the antibiotic. If worse or no better, I'll talk to the vet and plan to have her cultured on Wed. if that's not too soon. If better, I'll drive over in the middle of our blizzard and get another bottle of the drugs. I'm just glad that we have found a physical problem and it's not a training issue as had been suggested. NOT that I want a physical problem...grrr...
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Feb 22, 2010 - 12:26 am:

I have a QH mare that I foaled in 1980. She was trained for reining, but developed navicular synDrOme around 5 or 6 yrs. old. At about 20 years old, a swelling developed just in front of her right teat. It changed size....from about the size of a half grapefruit, to maybe the size of a large thick cigar. Our vet had us take her to New Bolton for a biopsy. Unfortunately, the young vet on her case was unable to get one ( "SHE ALMOST KICKED ME IN THE SPLEEN!!" ). We brought her home and my vet came out and got the biopsy ( with no problem ). When it came back, there was nothing to "hang our hat on". There were esinophils, I remember. We had a fecal count, to see if parasites were the problem. No evidence of parasites was found. The other possibility would have been allergies.... But we really didn't know, and there was no history whatsoever. So, we let it go...waiting for a more definitive reaction...which never came.

Well, nearly 10 years have gone by....and that area continues to change. Sometimes it's large ( with no heat ), and sometimes it's barely there. It doesn't act like edaematous tissue. It's never turned into something horrendous. I don't have a clue if this relates to your situation, but I just wanted to let you know that I'VE got a weird area just in front of the right teat that constantly changes. I must say here, that this area has never bothered her.

Whether this has any connection to your problem, I don't know. But if you decide to continue to search for a definitive answer, I'll be following closely. Otherwise, I just thought that I'd let you know that my old mare has been experiencing this weird swelling for at least 9 years. I do have to say, that it doesn't seem to affect her personality.
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Monday, Feb 22, 2010 - 7:29 am:

This does sound similar, except that Fresca's personality changed. She became very 'hot' under saddle, leaning on the bit, DrOpping her shoulder...just very abnormal. And this came on suddenly; it's not like it was a gradual thing. That's why I kept thinking it had to be physical. Also the kicking was very unusual. I have handled this mare daily for 2 1/2 years, and the trainer who worked with her for four years before that, have never seen her offer to kick. I clean her teats more often than the other mares due to the sliding stops in the sand. No problems until just recently.
So, yes, I'll keep this updated. I sure hope we are able to resolve this.
Lee, has your mare ever foaled, or is she maiden?
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