|
|
Discussion on Sahira's x-rays and veinagrams
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:06 pm:
Here are Sahira's x-rays which the clinic sent to me yesterday. These were taken at the start of her current treatment. I haven't taken her back in for more, but should at some point. We are still working on stablinzing her and getting her to where she is comfortable. As you can see, she has almost no sole, which doesn't help matters. You can also see that she was still off laterally, even after being trimmed several times from the initial onset, the last trim about a month prior to the xrays.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:10 pm:
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:11 pm:
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:13 pm:
Veinagram. These weren't real helpful as the vet blew a vein and the pictures can't be retried for several days. Also, these were difficult to do as after injection of dye several pictures have to be taken within just a few seconds.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:14 pm:
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:16 pm:
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:16 pm:
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:19 pm:
Th left veinagram was more successfull than the right I think. On one of them there is an area that doesn't show veins due to the blown vein, not due to lack of blood supply. Well, we aren't sure about the blood supply. If her foot doesn't get better, she might need another set of veinagrams to make sure she has adaquet blood supply.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:20 pm:
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:22 pm:
This should have been posted at the begining;
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 2:45 pm:
Ooops, sorry; it looks like I did post that last one earlier. I lost track!
The veinagrams were done after she was trimmed a little bit more on the heels and a very little on the sides. She doesn't have much sole to work with and the vet didn't want but very little wall removed. The shadow at the bottom rear that you see in some of the films is made by the injectable padding she was put into to relieve pressure on the sole. She was sent home with very soft intectable "goo" that was squirted into her frog sulces and over her sole and covered by a thin plastic; a soft rubber wedge that was fitted to her heel, and a plastic "shoe" which was glued in place. All of this was held on by elastacon over cotten wrapping. She kept this on for 2 weeks and showed immediate improvement. She was on 3 gr. of bute for the first week, then tappered down to finally 1 gr. She still gets from 1 to 2 gr. of bute when she shows signs of pain. Somedays she is fine without it.
After two weeks the pads were all taken off and she was put in the Soft-rides, with heel support but no wedge. She has been doing pretty good in these, but had days when she is obviously in pain, more on the left front then the right. I have started taking off the boots for about an hour each day and cleaning out the boots, cleaning off her feet, and applying sole paint. Since doing this, I have seen more improvement and she hasn't needed any bute. She is in a very deeply bedded stall, where she'll stay until she's totally comfortable. At that point I'll start hand walking her in the sandy arena which is inside and not frozen. If she doesn't get to where she is comfortable all the time, we'll take her back to the clinic for another try at the veinagrams to make sure she has blood supply to all of the hoof.
This mare had great feet until she had the pupura hemographica (sp?) When she foundered I didn't have a good farrier and I think a lot of further damage was done to alignment of bones etc. from poor trims and lack of knowledge. Some of this can't be corrected now. So, all I can do is try and get her as comfortable as I can. This horse has never been trained to ride, "only" a broodmare, so soundness in itself isn't an issue, only the pain.
This mare is now presumed and treated as Cushings due to her body condition and hair coat, so is on 1 gr. of pergolide/day currently (started at .5gr.) and grass hay, beet pulp with some bran, vitamins and corn oil.
|
Member:
juliem
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 4:50 pm:
It looks as if some toe could be taken off to move the breakover back, but of course I'd yield to your vet and Dr. O. It also depends on whether this is still acute or not I'm sure.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 6:01 pm:
Very interesting, Sara.
Thanks for sharing this.
Hope that Sahira will continue to improve.
Keep us informed.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 6:03 pm:
I agree it does look that way just looking at the x-rays, but when looking at the real foot and the bottoms of them, vet and farrier both said no more could be taken off at this time. They did lower her heels a little. She just has very little wall to work with and very thin soles as they've "DrOpped." She's also considered "acute" until she's pain free. We may be getting there; she'd doing much better.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 6:56 pm:
Sara thanks for posting the x-rays.. that RF looks scary. I think we can all learn from each others experiences.. of course I am the one without much for vet care or farrier care, hopefully I'll manage with the help of HA as usual.
It's funny her left seems sorer from the x-rays it looks like the RF should be... goes to prove horses don't follow the rules
|
Member:
pattyb
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 9:25 pm:
Hi Sara.......thanks for posting these...although I'm sorry that you're in this position to start with.
That coffin bone is a bit scary but I'm glad she's feeling better.
For what it's worth, I lost a gelding (at the age of 35) who lived 25 years longer than his X-rays said he would/should. He had ringbone and sidebone that when the vet saw the X-rays, he blurted out "this horse should have been dead 10 years ago." He had limits on his turn radius but otherwise, he wanted to go on trails and, he wanted to be the leader, blazing a new trail when we ran out of old.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 10:44 pm:
You're right Diane; what I think is that she was putting so much weight on her LF to keep the weight off the RF, that the LF became the more sore of the two feet. Neither foot is very good.
btw, Dr. Lamb happened to call me this evening to check on how she was doing. He's a very "chatty" easy going guy and I learn a lot from him (sorry Diane!) I asked him about rolling the toes and he said if she weren't in the Soft-Ride boots, at this stage he would say to start gradually rasping the toes, being careful not to take much off and to not touch the sole. The idea would be to bevell them, which I know others have talked about doing with their "rider's rasps." As long as she stays in the boots, though, the boot does the same thing that bevelling the toes would do since the boots' toes are bevelled. At some point, we will take her heels down more, but right now he feels they should still stay elevated; he even suggested elevating them more so they are a full 3 degrees in elevation; to do this buy screwing wedges onto the soles of the Soft-Rides. If she doesn't continue to improve, or worsens, he wants to redo the veinagrams. He said the main reason to do them is to see if the foot would have enough blood supply to grow horn (wall) if you had to sever the tendons in order to release the "pull" on the coffin bone. Hopefully, if Sahira continues to improve, this won't be necessary and we can gradually lower her heels to level out the coffin bones.
Dr. Lamb also gave me the name and phone number of another "foot guy" that has been doing studies and experiments using nitrous oxide (orally) to improve blood flow to the foot. He thought I'd enjoy talking to him and could ask him about using Sahira in one of his studies; it certainly wouldn't hurt her. Also, he said we could try magnetic boots; which he says have saved the lives of two horses he knows. I'm going to call this other vet tomorrow and see what I can learn.
Dr. Lamb then went on to tell me about a german man that he met at a laminitis clinic. The man has invented a new type of boot that super cools the hoof to minus 3 degrees (f) which he feels is needed to prevent founder once a horse has inflamation.
And, he said you can always save the horse if you are willing to spend a lot of money. He told of an expensive breeding stallion that foundered badly, was put in a sling to relieve pressure on the foot, the entire leg, including the foot, was cast with screws inserted into the leg bone, so when the horse stood no weight was put on the foot. Prior to being put into the sling and cast, the hoof wall was totally removed from the foot and the horse grew a total new wall. This cost $100,000 but the insurance company wanted to do this rather than put the horse done since the horse (TB) was worth so much and his stud fees were so high. He also told me of another TB stallion whose foot(leg) was amputated below the knee and the horse was fitted with an artificial leg and foot. The horse did fine, went on to breed and led a normal life with seemingly very little discomfort.
Interesting stuff, although I'm not sure just how much will be helpful to any of us.It's good to know so much research is ongoing and that there are alternatives, anyway.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 19, 2010 - 10:46 pm:
PattyB, loved hearing about your guy. Horses have amazing fortitude and "zest for life!" I have my Libby to attest to that. I had not one but three vets tell me she should be put down.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 7:31 am:
I guess it's a good thing I am flying by the seat of my pants, I couldn't afford to have all that stuff done to Sam.
I rockered Sams toe a little bit and beveled his walls last week, it did seem to help a little. I'm not doing anymore until he is a little sounder. It would appear his sole DrOpped too, but so did Hanks.
Sara my vet called me yesterday too to see how Sam was, he really is a very very nice guy and concerned, I just don't trust him completely. I told him I was soaking Sams hay ect. still and he said he didn't think it was probably necessary because the protein level probably wasn't that high in it and shouldn't be a problem????
I told him I was trying to keep his NSC's low.. LOW protein was more of a concern to me. It sounded as if he thought high protein was the problem with founder.. I was walking around working so didn't want to get into a conversation about it so just agreed.
I have to follow my instincts more than anything, and why I always have so many questions all the time
Hanks founder has taught me a little of what to do and what NOT to do.
Thanks for relaying your conversation with your vet. I hope Sahira continues to improve.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 7:56 am:
The images are remarkable Sara, and the right fore represents the worse situation you see with a chronically foundered foot. Severe rotation has resulted in enough pressure on the top of the to of the coffin bone that there is remarkable remodeling. The ongoing pressure makes you wonder how blood circulates to this point to nourish the sole corium and form horn. Indeed many hooves with radiographs this severe do not make horn where compression is greatest and develop a chronic ulcer in the sole. Are you also dealing with this?
A foot this severe has so many considerations that giving advice over the internet is foolish and fortunately you seem to be in good hands. However, if you cannot get some permanent improvement consider derotation to see if you can get that tip of the toe off the ground. It may completely destabilize such a fragile foot but the only real hope for long term improvement.
DrO
|
Member:
shedwall
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 10:44 am:
Sara,
I have a 5 year old Paso Fino who has foundered twice with rotation. I also have looked into magnetic boots for her - but have not gotten any yet as I was not sure if they would help. Did your vet mention a specific magnetic boot to use? Ali has come up sore again so X-rays were taken yesterday. Hoping for no new rotation! Fingers crossed.
Shelley
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 10:51 am:
Diane, who can?! But it's interesting to learn about. Maybe someday some of the proceedures they are doing will benefit the "normal" person and horse.
Dr.O, Agreed. We are very concerned about the right front, even though she seems sound on it right now and her left front has been the most sore. It also seems to be resolving. However, if she doesn't continue to improve, or begins to worsen, we'll redo the veinagrams. Dr. Lamb wants to make sure their is circulation to the entire hoof before doing anything more. I'll be calling Dr. Huff on Dr. Lamb's recommendation, to talk with him about using the nitrous oxide - success rate, cost, etc. Have you heard/read anything about this or have you had experience with using this? If so, what result have you seen/heard?
She doesn't have an ulcer yet, but does have bruising and soft soles. I'm very concerned about the coffin bone coming through the sole; it's very close. It might be helpful and of interest if I took pictures of her feet also and posted them. She is an extreme case imo.
Thanks.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 11:50 am:
Shelly, I'll be calling Dr. Huff today; he's the one (I think) that has used the boots as well as the nitrous oxide. I'll report back after I've spoken to him. Dr. Lamb thought maybe people could rent them also. Have you heard anything about being able to do that? They're pretty expensive imo.
Good luck with your mare.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 11:56 am:
Sara - thanks for posting the radiographs. My best wishes for you and Sahira as you go through this - obviously a long journey.
All the best,
Lilo
|
Member:
shedwall
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 12:31 pm:
Sara,
Thank you so much for looking into this for me. I wish you and Sahira the best as well. I have to go pick up Ali's X-rays but I am afraid to look. Hoping for the best.
Shelley
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 1:00 pm:
I know the feeling. Hopefully, the news isn't too bad.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 4:05 pm:
Dr. Huff is out of town until Monday; the girl in his office said he'd call me back then. So, if any of you have questions you'd like me to ask during my conversation with him, I'll be glad to ask them (inc. you, Dr.O !) I understand his work has been with nitrus oxide given orally to laminitic horses and also with magnetic boots. I'm going to try and find out what I can, inc. costs involved, so I'll know more about what alternative therapies might be out there that actually have helped laminitic/foundered horses.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 4:31 pm:
Dr.O, is there a difference between Nitric Oxide and Nitrous oxide? Or are these different terms for the same thing? I saw that there was a post from 2004 regarding the use of nitric oxide. The post quotes from an HO Society and puts forth the advantages of nitric oxide, which if the website is to believed, will solve or help almost all ailments (in humans.) You posted that there was a study which said nitric oxide can cause neuological damage. So, am wondering if we're talking about the same thing.
Do you know of studies done on the use of nitrous oxide for laminitis? I know the use of nitroglycerin proved to be pretty useless according to reports I've read and vets I've talked with. As I understand it, the nitrous oxide is given orally.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 20, 2010 - 8:44 pm:
Some of the remedies being used are amazingly innovative.
Over time what works the best will hopefully become more easily applied and more readily available.
Thank you for sharing this, Sara, so that we may all learn more, and I hope that Sahira will steadily benefit from these efforts.
You certainly have given all that you possibly can for her to have the best chance possible for healing and a good outcome.
That she has come so far seems like a good omen.
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 12:16 am:
Sahira is very lucky to have an owner (you ) who is willing to hang in there with her despite so much damage to her right front. But I think what Patty says is true, X-rays can look pretty awful but the horse will tell you otherwise!
How long have you been dealing with her laminitis? I'd love to see a picture of her to have a face to go along with the intimate portraits of her feet!
I don't know about what the vet said about saving any horse as long as you can keep spending money on them. Maybe if the founder is confined to one hoof. But look at poor Barbaro, foundered in all four. They really did seem to have reached the end of the road with him, despite the money that they could (and did) spend on him.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 12:46 am:
Barbaros had a lot more than founder going on, unfortunately. Here is a link to a very good telling of his story,if you haven't read it before, or even if you have.
imo.https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/barbaro.html?c=y&page=1
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 7:11 am:
We have information on using nitric oxide (NO) therapy in our article on Founder Overview. But as the article states as time has gone on there is less and less support for it's use. That goes on to this day and at the latest AAEP meeting knowledgeable folks questioned any use, at least as now practised. If it does have a use it is most likely in the very early stages of mild to moderate founders.
Nitrous oxide is NO2, a very stable gas, is also known as laughing gas. Nitric oxide (NO) is a very unstable gas and oxidizes (to nitrous oxide) within seconds on exposure to oxygen. NO has important local functions that mainly center around production by tissues and effecting local vasotension. It is important to note that currently there is no way to orally treat with NO directly because it is too unstable. And it it could be given in such a manner it might also be very dangerous.
I should bring up here that there is also no work to support the use of magnets in founder treatment either.
DrO
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 11:04 am:
Wow Sara, those images are scary. Thanks for sharing them. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for Sahira.
I wonder, could the fact that the RF is so bad result in nerve damage to the point where she wouldn't experience as much pain in it? Would be a blessing in a way I guess...
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 11:16 am:
thanks, Dr.O. I do believe more 02 to the area of imflamation, in this case the foot, helps healing; is there anything you know of that would do this?
I am going to talk with Dr.Huff and see what he has to say, what his experiences are with the nitrous oxide and mag boots. I also know there are things that just don't make sense scientifically, but do seem to work, at least sometmes. Guess I need Angie's "chicken bone shaking" icon here.
Farrier is coming over today and we're going to trim down the inside pads of the Soft-rides where the insert comes up into the sulces of the frog, as I'm thinking with her thin soles the pressure into the crevaces could be too much. We're also going to add a wedge to the ouside sole of the pad and raise her heels another 3 degrees. She's had 3 good days, 4 counting yesterday I think, then last night when I went out to ck. on her around 10pm, she was much more sore again.
Of course, the pressure changed dramatically last night and our storm is finally going to hit. I really think barometric pressure makes a difference, whether there is scientific evidence/proof of that or not. I had to get up and take some tylonal pm myself due to my hips and couldn't get to sleep until 2a.m.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 11:59 am:
Shannon, I think the RF was the worst, she put all her weight on the left and so aggrivated it, and that foot which wasn't accute, now is really inflamed. Meanwhile, her right front has recovered from the accute stage, and relaxed into the chronic "normal" stage...if that makes sense. There has been no more rotation in the RF since her initial onset early Nov. The left, which really had almost no rotation at first, has rotated. I don't know about the nerves. If there is not enough blood supply, that would certainly affect the nerves and might "kill" them imo.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 12:17 pm:
What a roller coaster, Sarah.
What you and she have gone through with Sihara's journey is truly an exercise in patience, strength, and persistence. Very admirable.
I hope that the anticipated changes will make a positive difference in her comfort level.
|
Member:
kpaint
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 2:08 pm:
Sara, I've been in Reno this week and just now read your posts. I'm so sorry to read about Sihara. Sure hope for the best of outcomes. Thanks for posting the Barbaro link.
When our plane touched down in Salt Lake earlier this week I thought of you, but I couldn't remember where you lived in Utah! Hope you haven't been pounded by the weather I keep seeing on tv.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 - 4:21 pm:
We are n SW corner of the state. So far, storms have been going around us; very weird. We're supposed to get a foot of snow tonight and tomorrow, but so far just a few flurried. 10 mi. south of us they have gotten quite a bit. We are damp, cold and windy; but now snow yet. Hope you're having fun in Reno. Love the area. Lived in Sierras (Truckee) for many years. Weather is usually about like here.
I'll bet your mare is doing fine. Sounds like you took all the precautions.
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 22, 2010 - 11:53 am:
Sara, I haven't been on here much until lately, just realized this is your thread! Didn't know you were dealing with this. So sorry! Ugh, I hate laminitis!
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 22, 2010 - 12:33 pm:
Me too, Erika, thanks.
Sahira had a pretty good day on 1gr. of bute;still sore but not as bad as previous night. I gave her another gram last night. She was still a ittle sore this a.m. but better.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 22, 2010 - 8:27 pm:
Glad that the pain is being controlled.
Sahira is in good hands.
|
Member:
kpaint
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 22, 2010 - 9:21 pm:
Good to hear her day was a bit better.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 7:38 pm:
Sara, wondering How Sahira is doing? Did you get to talk to Dr. Huff? Did trimming the wedge pads help her?
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 12:09 am:
Sahira was more sore after we raised her heels. After really looking at her foot Troy decided not to cut down the pad inside the boot. I buted her for a day, and by the next day she was back to where she was before raising her heels, then seemed to be moving really good the last two days and most of today. She was relunctant to move just a few minutes ago when I went out to check on the horses, but when I went to give her the bute,she outran me for two laps around the stall, so guess she wasn't feeling that badly! I gave her bute anyways as it's supposed to get really cold again by morning. Has been snowing ever since last night.
I haven't been able to talk to Dr. Huff yet, we have been playing phone tag the past two days. I'll try him tomorrow on my way out of town. (heading to a show in LA area for the weekend.)
Sahira has made progress. I found x-rays from shortly after her first laminitic episode when she was so sick. I think most of the rotation was done at that time; her coffin bone in the right front really doesn't look much more displaced than it did several years ago. Which leads me to the question, if her feet were trimmed right at that time and between then and now, wouldn't her coffin bone appear more normal by now, at least in that right foot? Her toes have been brought back a lot and her heels are lower than they were, but I don't see much difference in the apparant angle of the coffin bones. This makes me worry a little about just how much better she can get.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 7:45 am:
Sara thanks for the update. I would think the LF could be "de-rotated" following proper trimming/shoeing. The RF is quite a bit worse, but I would think like you, with proper trimming/shoeing it could be made better anyway barring no more laminitis attacks. I don't know if following Dr.O.'s article for de rotating severe founder would work, but the principals would make sense in this case??
Sam started running away from his bute too! That's when I knew he didn't need it anymore...so far so good. Our ground is rock hard with ice and no snow covering, I wish it would sofen up I think Sam is ready for SHORT hand walks on the straight line. Don't see it for a couple weeks anyway tho.
Glad Sahira is comfortable for the most part, keep us updated as she progresses.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 11:42 am:
Glad that Sahira has made progress and that she is more comfortable again.
Hope that things will stay on course.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 12:57 pm:
Sara I believe trimming for derotation, improving the relative position of the coffin bone to the ground surface, should be the goal to maximize long term soundness. It achieves this by reducing the pinch and pressure necrosis at the tip of the coffin bone. For more on how this is accomplished see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Rehabilitation and Derotation of Foundered Horses.
DrO
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 1:39 pm:
Sara - I wish Sahira continued improvement! Lilo
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 29, 2010 - 10:16 pm:
Sara, when I was looking around trying to figure out just what to do to Sam, I found this in the 4-point trim on Ric Reddens sight. The x-rays of this horse look similar to Sahiras. It also shows a DDFT tenotomy that you said they were considering for her. (not for the weak stomached) it certainly didn't seem like a big deal. Anyway I thought you might be interested.
https://www.nanric.com/chronic_laminitis_osteomyelitis_video.asp
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 - 4:35 pm:
Glad to her Sahira is coming along .
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 9:37 am:
Sara, how is Sahira doing?
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 11:08 am:
I too have been wondering about Sahira.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 11:33 am:
I've been lax in my posting; I was away at a show for several days, then had "dad problems" and general catching up to do. You all know how it goes!
Sahira has improved to a point, but no more. She is bright and alert, but still quite sore on the LF only. This morning she was moving pretty good. The last few days she seemed to be worse again. It is back and forth. I still have her deeply bedded and in the soft rides. We trimmed the inner pad of the boots to relieve some pressure on the frog thinking due to her shallow foot the pad might have been putting too much pressure there. I have been giving her bute, 1 to 2 grams/day as needed. When she has a good stretch, she gets none. Needless to say, she is still stall bound.(Everyone is currently due to the weather.
I have been unable to connect with Dr. Huff. We kept leaving phone messages for each other and missing. I made an appointment for Sahira to go down and see Dr. Lamb on Tuesday. I think we should try the veinagram again on her left foot. I'll post again after that visit.
Libby also came up lame. I noticed it when I came home from our show. Our ground was frozen and the pens have holes and cones of frozen sand and snow - very rough footing. I know Casie turned her out into her pen and I think she probably stumbled and strained a tendon as she had a little heat and swelling in her lower leg. I've been messaging with cool-gel, and keeping standing wraps on all four legs. The swelling has gone down but she is still really sore. She is due for a trim and shoeing.(She has a special shoe on her foundered front foot) She always gets a little gimpy if she goes too long between trims. Troy and the vet thought she should go longer than she usually does due to changes in the weather, but I've asked that Troy come and due her ASAP as I feel she needs it. I should probably take her back down to see Dr. Lamb also as her feet haven't been checked in about 6 mos. I may call and see if he would have time to do both of them on Tuesday. I've got her on 2gr. of bute, and Troy is coming on Monday. I think we might take off the wedge shoe and put her rocker shoe back on.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 1:07 pm:
GEEES Sara, you deserve to catch a break here pretty soon! This winter rutted ground causes more problems, I'm sick of it! I guess the 10 in of snow we get in the next couple days will take care of it for awhile. Last year the middle of Feb the snow was gone and we only had one small snow fall after that...I was hoping for another early spring, but it doesn't appear that is going to happen this year. The horses must know too, because they have not even begun to shed yet...they usually start a little the end of Jan.
I hope Dr. Lamb can help get your girls comfortable.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 1:20 pm:
Oh my, Sara,
It sounds like you have plenty to keep you busy and concerned.
Hoping for some improvement in both cases.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 1:43 pm:
Thanks. I hope Dr. Lamb can help also. Casie knows horses and feels badly. The sun was out and she though it would be good for Libby to stand in the sun for awhile. Of course, the problem was that Libby didn't just stand!
My horses are shedding like crazy. Daylight is increasing rapidly. We haven't had nearly the winter you folks in the mid-west have had, but even so I'll welcome spring! (So then I can worry about the grass, pastures, etc.etc!!)
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 7, 2010 - 6:03 pm:
Sara - hoping you can get both horses checked. Your horses are shedding - mine are not. I thought our climates were pretty similar.
Best wishes,
Lilo
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 8, 2010 - 1:03 am:
Lilo, my horses are blanketed; I think that makes a difference. And, the ones in the barn have lights on until 8p.m. or so, which also affects their coats. Even so, it's earlier than normal for them to be shedding as much as they are.
Libby was very lame when I checked the horses an hour ago. I'm going to call Dr. Lamb as soon as his office opens.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 8, 2010 - 7:30 am:
Sara I hope you are able to get Libby comfortable and Sahira! You have your hands full for sure.
Let us know how the vet visit goes...will keep fingers and toes crossed all day for them
I noticed yesterday Hank and Flash had a few hairs starting to shed. Not Sam I suppose I will be clipping him again
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 - 1:50 pm:
I took both Libby and Sahira down to the clinic in Las Vegas yesterday. Troy, our farrier, was kind enough to rearrange his schedule so he could go down with me. It was an all day trip by the time we got down there and got home.
Good news! No further rotation, no active laminitis in either horse. Libby has had no rotation since Dr. Lamb first saw her two years ago. Sahira has not only had no rotation, but has grown a lot of sole; it't thickness has doubled. The other good news is that for the most part both horses' veinagrams looked pretty good, although not perfect. However, Dr. Lamb feels with proper treatment both horses' bloodflow will improve.
The bad news is that both horses tested extremely sore in the heels and no where else. Libby more so than Sahira. Sahira's foot is "crushing down" on one side, which vet felt can be corrected. The crushing is decreasing blood flow to the area. Sahira was trimmed very little, just a little heel angle removed, and she was put in cushy pads, and glue on rocker plastic shoe which was set way out on one side to encourge her to weight the foot to the side opposite of the crushed side, and to give the crushed side more support. Vet thinks she might have an abcess forming, although he couldn't find any in the x-rays and he took them from every angle possible. He instructed me to put icthamal around the coronet band, wrap in saran and then vet wrap and redo every day to try and draw out a possible forming abcess in the heel area.
Dr. had to block Libby's right foot so we could trim her left foot as well as her right. She had grown out a lot and been so sore all Troy could manage, even with her on bute, was to cut off some heel. Both feet were trimmed and she was put on the soft rides we just took off of Sahira. Luckily, they fit! He is hoping that will help her. Her sole is very thin and slow growing and he thinks she bruised the sole,which evidently has already healed since there is no sign of bruising that he could see. (It's the only reason he could come up with for the sore heel though as nothing showed up on veinagram or x-rays.) Then she started carrying more weight on the heel, until the heel got so sore she wouldn't put any weight on it. I had already put her on some extra soft ride boot pads which I had taped to her foot. That was the only way I could get her comfortable enough to make the 2 1/2 hr trip to Las Vegas. We'll be painting her soles with sole paint every day and hope that works along with the extra biotin and other vitamins she's already on.
The tech made a DVD copy of the x-rays and veinagrams on both horses which I'll try and reduce and post later today or this evening. They are interesting to look at. I can try and copy some of the drs' notes also, but they are very difficult to read.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 - 2:24 pm:
Thanks for the news, Sara.
It sounds as though a lot of it is really good, though apparently more to go through with the heel pain and making foot adjustments.
What are you using as a "foot paint?"
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 - 3:18 pm:
LOL! Good question. Our local vet makes up his own concoctions and won't usually tell what is in them. It's thin, dark rust color, and stinks is about all I know. It does seem to work. I've used it in the past for a bruised sole, or sole soft from too much wetness, and it really toughens them up.
|
Member:
canter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 - 4:08 pm:
Sara, I'm very glad to hear the good news. Curious, though, as to the reason the vet thought Sahira's foot is "crushing down".
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 - 6:59 pm:
Great Sara I hope things continue to improve!
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 - 12:14 am:
Sounds encouraging Sara. I hope that the heel pain comes under control soon so that your girls are more comfortable.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 - 12:57 am:
Fran, when I post the x-rays you'll be able to see the area he is referring to, I think. As I understand it, the crushing is from when she foundered and abcessed originally. Her foot was sore and she started weighting more on the distal of the foot, which affected the way the foot grew and the flow of blood. I've been trying to read his notes so I can post them. You'd think after working with MDs I could figure it out, but his writing is pretty bad! She tested 1/5 soreness (scale of 1 to 5) on most of her foot, but 4/5 on back quarters when he used the testers on the hoof wall. There is reduced blood flow over distal, dorsal, and medial side of P-3, which is the area he said was "crushed." He said he's had cases like this before and directed Troy on how to set the glue-on clog to encourage weight to go to the other side of the foot. He thinks with time the crushed side's blood supply will improve and the hoof will correct itself.
Meanwhile, she is much more comfortable this afternoon than she has been for quite awhile. Libby is also improved, even since this morning.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 - 10:52 am:
Thanks for taking the time to share this, Sara.
You have some cases here that we can really learn from.
Glad to hear that Sahira is more comfortable and Libby also improved.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 - 11:18 am:
For some reason my overly protective computer will not allow me to run the disk the vet gave me and I can't look at the x-rays with out it. I'll mess with it more when I have time and try and get the films posted as I think the veinograms esp are interesting. Sorry. (I need that "hair-pulling icon!)
Both girls were up and anxiously awaiting breakfast this a.m. and didn't look like they had been lying down a lot during the night, so they must be feeling better than they were. We will continue to goop the icthamal on Sahira's foot and keep them on bute a few more days, tapering off to 1gr than none. Since they traveled on sore feet, had veinagrams done, etc. I would expect them to continue to be sore for a few days.
One interesting note which I don't think I was clear on before, is that Sahira's shoe was offset so it's sticking out further on the side opposite the "crushed" side. My natural inclination would have been to put more shoe under the crushed side for support. So much for my instincts!
Also, rereading his notes on Libby, her sole depth on her foundered foot is only 9mm and she hasn't grown sole since her last x-rays on that foot even though her veinograms showed no problems that should affect sole growth. She was in a rocker show initially while still in the hospital after her injury. Then she was switched to a clog, which she's been in for about a year and been doing really good until recently. The hope is that in the soft-rides she'll expand her foot and maybe grow more sole. She's too tender footed to let her go barefoot at this point, even in a heavily bedded stall. With the sole paint she should toughen up and then maybe go barefoot except for when hand walked - once she's able to be hand walked. I've had her on grass hay, but am going to add alfalfa back in along with upping her supplements, inc. biotin, in hopes that will help her.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 11:09 am:
I've been negligent in posting about Sahira, in part due to my own "lameness" issues the last couple of weeks - foot surgery. Troy, our farrier and neighbor, bless his heart, has been coming over checking on her and doctoring as needed. Sahira seemed to improve quite a bit to the point she was moving better than she's moved in a very long time - still lame, but fairly comfortable. She was to the point where we were starting to hand walk her for 5 mins/day in the soft sand of the indoor arena. We did that twice, with a day of rest in between. Then, she went really lame again, although not as bad as she has been in the past.
Troy took her up to our local vet for a follow-up x-ray. Her foot actually looked good all things considered; nothing new showed up. So, the vet took an x-ray of her pastern and amazingly found that her bones showed ostepinia quite severly. Hope I've spelled that right - thinning of the bone. Troy said it acutally looked like it had little hole in it. The vet took another x-ray of the foot from a different angle so he could see the "wings" of the coffin bone better, and they showed some of the same thinning.
This used to be her better leg; the leg she put the most weight on. Blood work was done but the results haven't come back yet. It will probably be Monday before I hear anything. Our vet is trying to do some research on this, but didn't really have any answers for us yet.
What would cause this? She has been getting beet pulp with rice bran, grass/alfalfa mix hay (mostly grass), biotin supplement plus multi-vitamins with minerals and free choice salt. Also, some eq. senior mixed with the beet pulp. She is also on 1ml pergolide currently.
What can be done to help this? Is it possible she has bone cancer, or does thinning of the bone happen since she has been standing in a stall for so long with very little exercise?
Yesterday she was extremely sore, could barely move according to my helper. He gave her 2 gr of bute, which I assume went down o.k. However, Lonnie went out to check horses for me before going to bed last night, and Sahira was still very sore. He gave her 2 gr bute this a.m. and with him doing it, I know it went down.
Her clogs were taken off at the vet's, and she is now in a soft pad which is taped on and her feet and lower legs are wrapped for support. Troy is coming over later today to check her and rewrap her. The only other factors are our weather which warmed up and was spring like, then got very cold again, 18 degrees at night, with a brief, fierce storm; thunder, lightening, sleet, rain, and snow with high winds. Now it is supposed to be nice again and warm up again. I mention the weather because am wondering if it is a factore. She seemed to get really bad again when the storm came in.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 12:03 pm:
Sara I was hoping no news was good news. SOO her leg/ hoof with the least rotation is the one that has that? I wouldn't even begin to guess what the cause is. immobilization does tend to lead to otsteopenia if I remember correctly. How long has she been stall bound? Did the vet have any opinions as to the cause and if there was anything you could do to help further deterioration.
What did you do to your hoof?
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 12:56 pm:
It sounds like unpleasant news Sara, although finding a reason might help finding a cure.
Hope spring helps.
Jos
|
Member:
kathleen
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 3:32 pm:
Sara, as far as the osteopenia is concerned, I wonder if a horse with Cushings is likely to get osteoporosis. Osteopenia is just a step before osteoporosis in humans. I have osteopenia. We lost 2 mares who had Cushings to broken bones - one the 'thigh' bone, broken at a walk - and the other broke her elbow turning into a steel post. I have wondered if they develop osteoporosis due to the Cushings. Also have no idea if this has anything to do with Sahira's lameness. Maybe DrO will have some input on this.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 6:55 pm:
Sara, I was hoping that not hearing from you about Sahira for a while was because you were busy doing something really fun -- like being at shows without a computer.
So sorry to hear that you have been lame and that Sahira is having pain along with this bone-thinning situation.
Hopefully the professionals will weigh in on this and let you know what it means.
Hope your foot is healing well, Sara.
Glad to hear you are getting a hand with Sahira when you are in need of assistance.
Take care and let us know how you and Sahira are getting along.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 8:49 pm:
Sara - so sorry to hear about Sahira and the osteopenia. I have been diagnosed with that (it probably was the reason I broke the bone in my foot almost 2 years ago). I have to go for a bone scan again this year - have been popping calcium pills and eating lots of yogurt. They do say weight bearing exercise is good - so maybe there is something to that (the lack of exercise, I mean).
Good luck with Sahira, and with healing your own foot!
Lilo
|
Member:
paul303
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 1:47 am:
I, too, have been diagnosed with osteopenia, back in the nineties. Got a perscription for Fosamax. Within 6 months I had severe joint pain and had to cut back on work ( dental hygiene ) to just 6 hours a week. Turned out to be the Fosamax. Got off it, and improved quite rapidly. In the early 2000's, dental practices began comparing notes on menopausal women taking these osteoporosis drugs and presenting with weakening bone in the mandible. I noticed it back then, in x-rays in some of my women patients over 50 on osteoporosis drugs. I began to see the name "dead jaw synDrOme", applied. The theory was that these new drugs inhibited osteoclasis ( breaking down of old bone cells ), resulting in a retension of "old" bone cell that should have been resorbed. The bone that results is denser, but not stronger. I just saw an advertisement on TV today for a class action suit against one of these osteoporosis drugs for people who have shattered their femurs ( thigh bones )while on certain drugs of this class. Investigate all drugs carefully, before you take them.
Sara, I'm sorry about Sahira. Possibly, the beet pulp can affect her calcium/phosphorus ratio, along with no weight bearing exercise to stress her bones and demand new bone cell formation. Not much you can do about this unless you can ease away from the beet pulp.....but you know better than I do, the demands of the diet Sahira needs. Every horse is different. I did have a boarder once, who made up her own feed...and included a calcium tablet in each feeding (which were zipped up in baggies ). Did it help? I don't have a clue. But that ( nasty, agressive) horse is still alive 13 years later....and doing well. Not in MY barn, though.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 9:10 am:
Hello Sara,
If a bone has decreased stressed on it, as you might see with long term lameness, it looses mineralization (osteopenia) and would be a logical explanation of the finding of decreased bone density in the lame leg however it may not be the only reason.
As posted above, I still believe that derotation offers the best hope in a bad situation, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis » Rehabilitation and Derotation of Foundered Horses.
DrO
|
Member:
kathleen
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 10:26 am:
DrO, do you have any information on whether horses develop something like osteoporosis having to do with Cushings. Both of my mares were turned out and were active, but both broke bones that were unlikely to be broken on a sound horse. Do I need to start another discussion?
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 11:52 am:
Dr.O, this is one thing that puzzles me; the leg she is now lame on , and has been the most lame on the last couple of months, used to be the leg she carried the most weight on. The other leg, which she used to favor more, so it carried less weight normally, has no signs of osteopenia. I'm surprised it is showing up in what used to be her better leg.
I, too, would be interested in knowing about a possible connection to Cushngs. I think I've read that there might be.
Also, will extra calcium added to her diet be of benefit? How much extra? She is currently getting extra calcium and rice bran along with the beet pulp but I'd have to check on the container to see just how much calcium is in the supplement as I don't recall the amount. What changes should be made in her diet? Our vet feels she is Cushings and as I said, she is on pergolide.
Lee, I have osteoporosis and have been on Boniva for two years, also on extra calcium and other supplements. During that time, my bone density has greatly improved. I just recently heard there could be a problem with long term use of Boniva and similar drugs. Is this the drug you are refering too? I guess I need to do some research.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 11:55 am:
Not much as been done to Sahira's feet since her visit to the vet in Las Vegas. When she sent in to our local vet, the glue on clogs were removed. I don't think any trimming was done, just a soft pad wrapped onto her foot. Her other foot is bare and she is in deep shavings.
Part of her problem is that there is so little foot to work with. We know she needs to be derotated, but until she has some heel and hoof to work with, it is difficult and must be done in very small increments according to the two vets she's been to so far. I will spend some time rereading and see if I am missing anything on HA or elsewhere, that might be of help to her.
|
Member:
shirl
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 12:18 pm:
Sara,
I'm so sorry for your problems and those of Sahira. Will send healing prayers for both.
Shirley
|
Member:
paul303
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 22, 2010 - 1:03 am:
Sara: Fosamax was the drug that was sited on the television spot...but I believe that Boniva works on a similar principle. My only advice to anyone is: research. Use the internet and investigate all new medications that are recommended to you.....We all have to get used to taking more responsibility for overseeing our own health care.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 22, 2010 - 11:35 am:
Thanks, Lee. I do read online about the drugs I take; however, if I really concentrated on all the possible side effects of every drug prescribed and OTC I'd be afraid to take anything, and then would probably die of my ailments! Everything, including aspirin, had some scary side effects that are possible. I totally agree we all need to be more responsible for our health! And, that of our animals also!
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 22, 2010 - 5:31 pm:
Sara, the fact this is unilateral lets out systemic disorders and disuse osteopenia can develop and correct once use is restored very quickly. We are currently treating a puppy in my small animal hospital with a radial/ulnar fracture where splinting has resulted in radiographic evidence of osteopenia in just a few weeks.
Excess calcium in the diet is not indicated and if nutrition a problem again this would be bilateral. Checking dietary calcium and phosphorous levels for optimum amounts would be logical however.
DrO
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2010 - 12:42 am:
Dr O, did you mean to say this "isn't unilateral?"
I did get her phos/calcium numbers from the vet tech: Phos. 2.9 and calcium 12.5. I don't have any of the other blood work back, but the tech said every thing else looked normal. I asked about while cell count, but she said they didn't do that.
I talked with Dr. Lamb, the Las Vegas vet this afternoon. His biggest concern in the veinogram and the lack of blood flow to the inside of the foot. He feels this is a main reason for the pain as the wall isn't getting any nutrient, isn't growing, and could be separating (I think he said.) He wants Troy to put the glue on clog back on with it set as far as possible to the outside. He also suggested I try again to get in touch with Dr. Huff, the vet who has supposidly good success with the nitrous. Dr. Huff and I kept missing each other, and then I got sidetracked and never did reach him. So, I'll try again. He said that putting her in deep sand might help her and suggested I bed a stall with deep sand. He also said the cutting the tendon was really last resort and didn't sound like he thought it would help her a lot.
Dr. Lamb isn't concerned about the osteopenia; said it wouldn't be the cause of pain. He did say that there was some of it also on her sesamoid bones from looking at the x-rays he took. He feels if I want to "hit everything at once" I could put her on a product called Vitaphose too increase her phos. level.
If I thought she'd survive the trip to So. CA I'd take her to Alamo Pintado, but I really think the trip would just do her in.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2010 - 8:23 pm:
Sara, you state above that only one leg is effected making the condition "unilateral" if both legs were effected this would be not unilateral (bilateral).
I believe the venogram interpretation you present above to be highly conjectural and not based on any research that correlates such a radiographic lesion with pain. On the other hand I can see where the tip of the coffin bone is remodeling do to pressure it puts on a sensitive tissue, the sole's corium. If the horse is not sensitive to hoof testers over this pressure point I would be very surprised. More importantly how do you address the venogram diagnosis? I have a plan for addressing the rotation induced pain.
DrO
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2010 - 10:22 pm:
Sara, I'm sorry to read of Sahira's continued lameness. What a difficult situation for you and for her.
For all of you interested in bone health and osteopenia, recent findings indicate that the best absorption of Vitamin D occurs if you take it with the largest meal of the day.
https://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2010/03/vitamin-d-at -dinner.html
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 24, 2010 - 9:28 pm:
Jo Ann, disuse osteopenia would not be responsive to nutritional adjustments, it is the natural response of bone to decreasing stress.
DrO
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 24, 2010 - 10:58 pm:
Yes Dr. O, I did not mean to imply that. I was posting in reply to the members of the board who were discussing their own treatments for osteopenia in this thread, i.e., human post-menopausal bone loss, not equine bone loss related to disuse. Sorry to create confusion!
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 25, 2010 - 7:52 pm:
Dr. O, sorry; I'm a little dense sometimes I think. I should have gotten the unilateral vs bilateral. Just remember you are dealing with the frazzeled almost elderly here.
I've read your articles on derotation; how would you approach it with a horse that has very little hoof to work with? Also, would you proceed if it seems like every time you worked on her foot, no matter how minimally, it seemed to make her worse not better? Is the norm to be really sore for a week or so and then to gradually get better, or would there be almost immediate relief after correction?
Part of what is so weird about Sahira's left foot, is that it is extremely sore in the bulb of the heel and above that area along the back of the hoof. She seems to have much less soreness over the point of the coffin bone. Also, her right foot looks much worse than her left, but the left foot is currently the one causing her the pain. When the foot was blocked, she walked sound on hard ground.
Our local vet feels there could be infection in the hoof I think. Sahira is going in Tues for a CBC, which wasn't done before. I have also emailed the vet at Alamo Pintado that worked on Libby. I am hoping that he will be able to confer with our local vet and help him come up with a treatment plan.
I feel like I am reaching a stalemate with both our local vet and the vet in Las Vegas and am getting frustrated, although I do have to say our local vet has made several phone calls to vets in other areas regarding Sahira's foot.
Currently, she is still in the taped on lily pad and is more comfortable than she has been for awhile.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 25, 2010 - 8:31 pm:
If I believed the cause of the pain was the pressure of the tip of the coffin bone on the sole, I would work to remove that pressure. The only way I know to do this would be derotation" rotate the tip of the coffin bone dorsally and off the sole where it pinches the sensitive tissue.
I see no evidence in the above radiorgraphs that any previous "unsuccessful" work has addressed this issue. I agree there is dern little horn to work with so believe the chance this will work is poor to guarded but I do not see a better option. To help with the lack of horn to work with I would consider going slow and where necessary use hoof wall repair materials to create horn where I needed it.
DrO
|
Member:
canter
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 7:23 am:
Sara, I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. From all your previous posts, you seem to be more fortunate than most in that you have a lot of excellent veterinary resources within a reasonable distance...that stalemate is worrisome for sure.
I will continue to keep my fingers crossed for Sahira's recovery.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 9:47 am:
Sara - no advice here, just some positive thoughts that there will be a way to make Sahira more comfortable.
All the best,
Lilo
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2010 - 11:27 am:
I thought I should bring you up to date with my lame girls.
Both mares were kept in deeply bedded stalls until the weather warmed up. We attached pipe panels to the back of their stalls so they could stand and look out and talk to the other horses in their pens. Both mares were trimmed April 14th. Sahira's sole was packed with a heel support and a protective boot was taped on; this was taken off, hoof cleaned and painted with sole paint and boot reapplied every other day. Libby's heel was lowered, her toes rounded a little more, and her boots taken off. She also got treated with sole paint. Both mares were sore for about a week, then started to improve with good and bad days. We started hand walking Libby in the arena, and worked up to 10 mins a day with some hand grazing thrown in. Troy came back several times, about 2x a week, and checked both mares and rasped Sahira's foot down a little more each time.
After a couple of weeks, Sahira's pads were removed and she was left barefoot. She still got sore, but was moving much better than previously.
Libby was much improved, some days moving normal, than would have a period where she was really sore for a few days. We would bute her and keep her confined, and lay off the hand walking until she felt better.
Once the weather warmed up, we removed the panels at the back of their stalls and allowed both mares to go in and out into their shared sandy pen. I think the movement has been good for them, as they have continued to improve, but still some days where one or the other is sore, but not as bad as they were.
Both mares were again trimmed on May 21st. This time no pads were used on either horse. Sahira is moving a whole lot better, although she stll has days when she's lame, again not as bad as before. Because we are afraid to do much at once to either of the mares as they get very sore afterwards, they were just slightly trimmed. Troy is going to come once a week and continue to take new growth off the heels and round the toes as needed. Doing very small amounts of work at a time seems to help. Both mare did really good for awhile, but Libby gets very sore when the weather changes. I go out and give her bute everytime there is a change; just one gram to "take the edge off." I think she has developed arthritis from her injury and all and feels it with barometric changes. (My knees hurt at such times also.)
I am hoping with more turnout and exercise they will improve. I think it helps to keep the blood flowing and brings in oxygen so helps hoof grow. My theory, anyway. However, when it is cold and icy and they are so sore, like over this past winter, they just can't go out and move around on the hard ground. Winter is hard on them. I hope maybe now that Sahira is growing hoof again, she will grow enough that she can be sound this coming winter.
I will take them both in to get check up x-rays soon so we can check their angles again and see how much more change needs to be made.
My foot has also healed. It took much longer than it should have because I developed allergies to every medication and bandage they put on the foot. I developed huge blisters all over the foot and it was very sore and swollen. Once the wound healed enough, I took a long hot shower and washed it throughly, then covered it in a clean cotton sock. I did that every night and didn't use any medications and it started healing. It still swells up when I use it a lot, but other than that I'm back to normal.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2010 - 12:21 pm:
Thanks for the update Sara, I have been wondering how Sahira and Libby were doing. Sounds like progress is being made and that's all we can hope for sometimes. Glad you are healing too!
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2010 - 3:55 pm:
Thanks for the update, Sara.
It just seems to take the time that it takes, doesn't it?
I hope you and your two girls will steadily continue to heal.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 8:39 am:
Thanks Sara, I look forward to the radiographs.
DrO
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 12:11 pm:
I will post them. We have been relunctant to do much at a time because Sahira gets SO lame after even minor changes. She is improving, though. I'll call next week for an appointment for her and for Libby both. I think it's important to see where we are at with both of them, and how much more we need to do. I know we have a ways to go on Sahira. I think the warmer weather and being able to move around a little more have helped both horses as well as the foot care.
|
|
|
