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Discussion on Botulism vaccine
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Member:
nightwin
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 2, 2010 - 4:16 pm:
Several equine vets in our area (southeastern Va.) are encouraging all horse owners to vaccinate foals and adults against botulism. The claim is that it is geographically widespread in our area. I own a boarding facility and we keep our horses outside, feed small square-bales of hay and well-maintained pasture, and pick up manure daily. The majority get no more than a cup or 2 of pellets, just to mix with supplements. I don't think we're at risk. Anyone else getting the hard sell? Dr. O, are you aware of increased incidence of botulism anywhere in the US? If the vaccine is only effective against 1 or 2 of the several types of botulism, how effective is it, really? Or is this a new vaccine? If so, it doesn't have a track record, right? Thanks for your insights.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 2, 2010 - 4:46 pm:
Having just opened a bale of hay and found pieces and parts of a hen pheasant that has been there for how long?? I'd like to know also. If I had fed in the dark might not have seen this poor bird in time?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 3, 2010 - 7:32 am:
Hello Wendy and Cindy,
I am not aware of a new vaccine for botulism and have not heard of a increased incidence. However botulism is not a reportable disease and type B induced Shaker Foal Disease has long been considered a widespread though sporadic problem in the middle eastern coastal states, for more on this see the article. You can find it written that cold wet winters have been associated with increase incidence in the past.
To check on your local incidence I would recommend you call your state veterinarian office and state veterinary lab to see if they have heard of an increase incidence.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 3, 2010 - 11:46 am:
Wendy,
Given your management practices my veterinarian would not recommend the botulism vaccine as necessary and he tells me that I don't need it for my horses.
He does suggest that farms routinely using round hay bales may want to consider the vaccine.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 3, 2010 - 8:23 pm:
Vicki, makes a mistake in thinking she can "know" your situation as well as someone who visits your farm regularly and knows you and your situation personally. And given such knowledge that she knows her veterinarian would make such a proclamation. The information you provide suggests good management but that is very different than "knowing" the actual risk.
DrO
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 4, 2010 - 4:26 pm:
This is what I found after reading an ad in mag. and doing a search.Also 2nd bad bale with animal parts causes me concern and bit of anger towards hay supplier! 
https://www.horses-and-horse-information.com/articles/0396bot.shtml
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 4, 2010 - 5:39 pm:
Cindy, there is no way to avoid baling dead animals, your hay supplier doesn't know they are in there. Snakes, mice, and unfortunately fawn parts are found in our hay around here, they get run through the haybine and the farmer doesn't know. My horses refuse to eat hay with body parts in it if I don't find it first. It is a worry, but nothing can really be done about it.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Feb 5, 2010 - 7:46 am:
I agree it is very hard to run a mower, rake, and baler AND watch for dead critter parts. This does make it imperative we watch our hay for problems but as Diane notes even then, things can get missed.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Feb 5, 2010 - 5:19 pm:
Point taken, Dr. O.
Also, what a Vet might suggest in one part of the country may be entirely inappropriate in another, and I did not really mean to suggest against the vaccine.
Wendy's practices seemed to be very cautious and thorough including the feeding of square bales only and those are the parameters that my Vet uses in order to make decisions about the botulism vaccine, for THIS part of the country.
And he has personally tended to many horses that died of botulism or had to be put down due to it, which was on account of haylage suitable for cows only being fed to horses.
It sounds as though one needs to not only be concerned about location but also the conditions in the areas where ones' hay supply comes from?
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Friday, Feb 5, 2010 - 8:41 pm:
Diane am aware I was asking for something the baler couldn't really do but then last year there was a complete rattlesnake in one of the flakes my husband carried down and did not see til he pulled it apart. He loves snakes as much as you! 
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Member:
nightwin
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Posted on Friday, Feb 5, 2010 - 8:44 pm:
Thank you all for your input. The vets in the area are putting forth a full court press in general with all clients, not barn-by-barn, which made me question the necessity in my barn's case. However, I have made it clear to all my boarders that it's completely up to them, and I support them either way. We have indeed had an unusually cold, extraordinarily wet winter so far, (and it's only half over!) and that may be why they are being cautious.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 6, 2010 - 1:02 pm:
With regard to cold weather and botulism cases,
there has been a strange epidemic of botulism in dogs residing in south Florida.
At first it was a big mystery trying to figure out why.
Now the veterinarians have come to the realization that the affected dogs had gotten ahold of dead and rotting Iguanas that they had found outdoors or floating in waters, that had frozen and died due to the unusual, extremely cold weather.
Some of the dogs ate the rotting flesh while others thought that the dead Iguanas were toys.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 6, 2010 - 6:37 pm:
Wendy did you contact your state veterinarians office about the incidence in your state? Though not reportable often the state diagnostic lab gets an idea about changing incidence of disease.
DrO
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Member:
nightwin
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 - 1:20 pm:
DrO, I talked with another vet group in the area with a large equine practice, and they are NOT recommending the vaccine for adult horses unless round bales are fed. They ARE recommending it for foals. When they learned of the push to vaccinate by some vets in this area, they talked to the equine Internist at N.C. State vet school, and another here in Va. (Internal Med equine vet), and both are scratching their heads as to why it's being encouraged. I'm told that the state vets don't know because, as you stated, it isn't reportable. And like you said, it is not a new vaccine, is effective against the B. strain, the most common strain.
We are experiencing a miserably freaky cold and wet winter. I am sure many horse owners are trying to stretch their money by feeding round bales to keep their horses warm, and that being the case, it is a good idea to vaccinate. I wonder, tho, if they can afford the $90 initial outlay for 3 injections the first year if they have to resort to feeding round bales.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 - 9:45 pm:
Excellent detective work Wendy. I guess it would be appropriate to ask your veterinarian if he has had any botulism cases and what were the circumstances? As to using round bales...I guess if they looked bad and it was all I could get, vaccination would be a consideration, but locally I have seen some very nice round bales that would not be a concern.
DrO
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