Site Menu:
This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below: |
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Hoof Abscesses, Bruises, and Gravels » |
Discussion on Levi Suddenly Grade 5 lame on left front foot | ||
Author | Message | |
Member: quatro |
Posted on Monday, Feb 22, 2010 - 9:53 pm: It has been a while. Levi has been doing pretty good for quite some time lately. This morning I fed him his grain, went to let him out of his stall for hay, and he barely made it out of his stall, Definately grade 5, if he could, he would cock it to keep weight off of it. It has a strong pulse, is warm, but it almost seems like his back legs have a pulse as well. All 4 feet seem warm.We have lots of snow, and it has melted and re froze so Yesterday, Levi and Cody were play fighting in the yard, so I know he felt ok yesterday. I am not sure how to decide if it is an abscess with sudden onset, or if he has sole bruising? I gave him some bute, soaked in warm water with epson salts and betadine. Put a diaper and a boot on and left him in all day. He showed no improvement and although weight bearing, he is still in pain. Tonight I gave him another gm of bute, 1/2 soak and re-booted. Should I continue to soak a few days, or have my local vets, who I have no confidence in come and see him tomorrow? When I pushed on the Frog he seemed ultra sensitive. I also noticed that he has some crumbling WLD on the outside wall. An suggestions? thanks suz |
|
Member: juliem |
Posted on Monday, Feb 22, 2010 - 10:42 pm: Sudden onset of severe lameness always suggests abscess to me. The protocol for me is the same as Dr. O's--vet call! I don't mess around with soaking and you may need to quit the bute for your vet to accurately find the abscess is that's what it is. I know some advocate soaking, but in my opinion, more damage is done to the structures of the hoof as the abscess works it way out and the pain is pretty significant. If it's an abscess and your vet opens it, relief will be instant. Some farriers are capable to do this, but that's your call. Hope that it's an abscess as that's so easily and quickly fixed relative to all the things possible! |
|
Member: stek |
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 - 11:12 am: I agree that it's better to get to an abscess from the bottom rather than having it work it's way up and out the top. I have had farriers do a fine job of opening them too. |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 - 11:58 am: Well, I took everyone's advice, read the article etc. Called the vet ( the one I said I have no confidence in), he just left. Did the hoof tester, said "yup, he's sore right here by the toe" Got a hoof knife, dug out a little at the white line, just a little, squeezed the hoof tester again. Said it was not ready to drain yet, and considering Levi's history with that foot, did not want to work aggressively at it, so soak if for a few more days.Same thing I was doing, minus the $75.00 vet fee that I am sure to receive. It is snowing and blowing, and Levi has a farrier appt. next Tuesday, so I guess, I should have known, it would be a waste of time to call them. The next place I move to I am interviewing vet and farriers. He is still very lame. suz |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 5:47 am: Hello Susan,If the veterinarian believed there was an abscess and identified the location I don't understand his reluctance to drain it... Was there a black track in the horn or white line to follow? DrO |
|
Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 7:58 am: Dr. O,I hate to say this but there are a lot of vet's out there that will not even attempt to try and drain an abscess, preferring to have the horses foot soften up with poultice and soaking in epsom salts with the hopes of the abscess popping with little interference on their part. It may not be the right thing to do, but never the less, some vet's take a wait and see attitude about this. I have had much better luck with farriers being a bit more aggressive in finding, opening and treating abscesses than I have with vets. It is very rare that I do have an abscess, but the ones I did have the horses were confined to a stall and had a medicine boot with poultice on them for a minimum of 24-48 hours. The vets thought on this was by softening up the foot the normal progression was to exit out the bottom of the foot, the theory behind it was that gravity and the horses own body pushes infections(and other things)downward and when given a path of less resistance (softened foot) the infection will exit at the bottom. In some cases, where it comes out at the coronary band, that is the only path of least resistance( coronary band is soft) because the rest of the foot is too hard for the infection to move downward. Abscesses are insidious things, I have had horses that came to me NQR and no one could figure out what was wrong. Months later, the culprit turned out to be abscesses and as soon as they popped, the horses' got better immediately. These horses were not head nodding lame, in fact, they did not show a serious lameness at all, just a hitch in their gait that several vets could not pin point with blocking or x-rays. In one case, the farrier found it in a regular shoeing session and the garbage that came out of it shot quite a ways away just from the pressure in the foot. We had been checking this horses feet with a hoof tester during the previous several months and he did not react to pressure anywhere on any of his feet. After, the abscess finally drained, the hitch in his gait left basically the next day and his attitude became much better. Just my thoughts Rachelle |
|
Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 8:15 am: Rachelle I have had the same experiences with abscesses. One mare I had acted lame on one leg, I couldn't pin point it so had the vet out (not the one I have now) He said it was a tendon injury! So I wrapped her leg, put her in a stall and treated her injured tendon. She was a few weeks into rehab and still lame..(this was not a real noticeable lameness just NQR) I decided to let her out to graze in a small open, she was grazing away when hubby went by with the tractor pulling something, she jumped straight in the air and took off running, when I brought her in she wasn't lame anymore When I unwrapped her leg I saw an abscess had burst at her coronary, probably from jumping straight in the air. Since then, if I am absolutely sure it is an abscess I let them move (at will) seems to help push the abscess out. Like Susan around here vets, nor farrier will dig abscesses out unless it is "right there"Hanks went on for MOS. I have only had 3 abscesses since horse ownership and that is 3 to many! They can be frustrating. |
|
Member: cheryl |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 10:09 am: Dr. O - I would have been surprised if the Vet had been able to find the problem and fix it. I'm 66 - I've had horses since I was 9. In all that time I've had two Vets who knew what they were doing. One vet took x-rays of Fox's feet and told me she had 30+% rotation in both front feet. My "good" vet looked at the x-rays and showed me that the rotation was right around 2-3%. Not all Vets are created equal. Fortunately there are a few, like you, who are committed enough to actually spend the necessary time and effort to be able to correctly diagnose and treat problems. On Fox's last trim, the farrier found what has been two abscesses in one foot and one in the other. The vet who came out charged me over $300 - didn't find an abscess and left Fox just as sore as she was before. There are good Vets and diploma holders - and unfortunately the majority are diploma holders.Cheryl K |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 10:25 am: Dr. O, if this explains anything on this particular vet, I called with a guest here at my pet resort who was having an obvious bloat. I could not reach their regular vet (who was in church)and frantically called my other practice. I have experienced bloats before, and know the severe consequence of waiting around.He was on call, and told me to "lay him down and roll him over" he was busy and could meet me in about an hour! I did finally hear from his regular vet who needed to do emergency surgery. I did NOT roll him over! Hence, the reason I have to drive 2 hours to the nearest horse vet for Levi. He dug about 1/8" out of the white line area where he felt the pain was, not in the sole where he was most painful. Told me he thought there were 2 tracks there, I did not see them. To be fair I am so neurotic about Levi's foot problems, that I think he was afraid to be too aggressive in case he messed him up. He also is annoyed with me for "vet shopping" as he called it! His lack of confidence on the issue, made me OK with the fact that he did not do anything aggressive. He actually walked out of his stall at a much quicker pace this am, but still very lame. Should I do as Diane suggested and put the boot on and let him walk around, or keep him confined? An interesting theory.? OUtside of an x-ray, which he is scheduled for on Tues. is there anything that would suggest rotation issues for any reason? This is his bad foot suz |
|
Member: stek |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 11:00 am: Susan when dealing with abscesses I prefer to keep the horse moving as much as they can within their comfort level. More movement = more circulation which will bring things to a head faster. If you are trying to soften the horn you can also pack the whole hoof well with icthamol and wrap it in addition to soaking.Of course you would want to be sure to rule out any problems where movement is contraindicated. How does the rest of the leg look, how are his dps, and is he still grade 5 lame? |
|
Member: juliem |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 3:05 pm: I'd not ask the horse to move any more than he chooses and I'd make hay and water close so he didn't have to. Understand that if an abscess has to work it's way out, it damaging the hoof capsule that entire time, not to mention the excruciating pain--the reason an abscess makes a horse three legged lame! |
|
Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 3:17 pm: Susan, abscesses and an acute founder or bruised soles can mimc each other. USUALLY if it is just one hoof it is an abscess, do the others still have a raised DP?? heat??? IME abscesses tend to produce a warmer hoof.I don't know if you saw the other posts but a few of us have had problems with bruised soles and founder this year. If I recall off the top of my head Viki Z's horse was worse in the RF, and at first she wasn't sure what it was and gave him bute and turned him out. Sam foundered worse in his rears... SOOO one never knows and with the hoof testing sore at the toe can it be a sign of laminitis. I'd be careful until you have a definite diagnosis. Did the vet hoof test his other hooves??? I know my vet wouldn't unless I told him to... been there done that |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 6:36 pm: Susan, for me to answer your question of what to do next I would have to know what is wrong: what if we have a fractured coffin bone for instance? I have put a lot of thought about what to do with the undiagnosed lame horse and you will find those thoughts at Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse.DrO |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 6:45 pm: thanks everyone. No he did not test his other feet. He said his pulse was not that strong, and he actually localized the heat to a specific point on his coronary band, which he traced down his foot, it correlated with the tender spot on his toe, just to the outside of center.I have soaked for 3 days now, and he is improving in his gate, although still about a 4 lame. He is no longer jacking up his foot when he can, and stands on it in his boot. However, he is on 2 gms of bute per day. He weighs about 1275. I am giving him 2gms in the afternoon. I cut him down to 1 tonight. I did let him out in the pen today for about an hour. there is really no running around as we have 200' of snow in their paddock. Well not quite 200, just feels like it. They only have a path from barn to feeders, so he did not move around much. I am just going to bide my time till our vet appointment on Tuesday. Hope that will be ok. Maybe with all the soaking, and applying the poultice, it will be ready to "pop" when we get there. Or maybe it is sole bruising, with his recovering slightly? I even asked him to check the rear pulses, and he just blew me off. He said he likes to compare pulses from foot to foot, but did not feel that they were that strong, all 4 feet are warmish. But they do that on many occasions with Levi. thanks suz |
|
Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 7:07 pm: Dr. O,That's exactly why my horses stay in their stalls with poultice on their feet when I think there is a foot problem. I did have an occasion where, it was not a foot problem but a non-displaced condylar fracture of the cannon bone caused by a bone cyst right at the bottom of the cannon bone. Mare acted like it was the foot, vet said it was the foot, but after three days of no change in lameness, we xrayed foot nothing, but also xrayed ankle and there it was. Unfortunately, when first xrayed ( with a regular xray machine) the cyst was not visible, it looked like it was part of the fracture. It was only after 4 months of stall rest, and the vet getting a new digital xray machine( I was the first horse xrayed with it) did we discover the cyst, so we retired the mare as a companion horse. Rachelle |
|
Member: vickiann |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 8:11 pm: Hope that this resolves before too long for Levi.Yes, Diane -- Perry has been worst in the RF (and that is the one that showed some rotation on the X-rays) but he also tested sore in the LF toe area and had discernible DPs in both front feet, but worst in RF. He has also has had discernible DPs at times in the rear feet, but did not react at the toe to hoof tester pressure. My Vet said the laminitis was in the two front feet, but worst in RF. That foot has some past history of damage so may have been more vulnerable? Like Dr. O, my Vet goes more by how the horse is moving and turning and what and where the reaction is to the hoof testers than the DP's. |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 - 9:37 pm: Should I be soaking his feet in cold water or warm water? that has me a bit confused? |
|
Member: scooter |
Posted on Thursday, Feb 25, 2010 - 7:40 am: Susan If you are going to soak for an abscess you use warm water, I think cold, Ice is for acute onset of laminitis... I have never found soaking to be a big help myself, but others have...so it depends what the problem is |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Feb 26, 2010 - 8:41 pm: Susan, for undiagnosed lameness I don't recommend soaking at all, again see the article I reference above.DrO |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 12:30 am: Well, I don't know what to think. The vet, that I paid to come exam recommended to keep soaking and a poultice. He examined, but was not aggressive at digging out the abscess.I have been soaking once a day now since MOnday, along with 2 gm of bute down to 1 gm the last 2 days, and none today. This afternoon, although he is still lame, I would have to say it is now a grade 2-3 lameness. So With the improving soreness, what would you think that means. We will be doing maintenance x-rays on Tuesday, but what does it mean that he has been out moving about, still lame but I would have to say an 80% improvement over monday, when he one stepped out of his stall, to chasing me with the food sled, albeit, with a limp. Would this indicate an abscess or sole bruise or what? thanks suz |
|
Member: paul303 |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 1:31 am: Gee, Susan, if you have a real "winter" turn-out situation, maybe Levi got some soreness from the conditions of his turnout....which, of course, cannot be avoided - entirely. I have two mares, shod in the front, that are picking up "snowballs" in their front feet that are humungous. I've been running out once or twice during the day to pick their front feet out. I've been stalling them at night, to give their feet some rest from the frozen ground and snowballs. We've been killed with snow here on the east coast this year, and my mares have been sore both from screwing around in 3' of snow, and running around and acting up on frozen snow-covered ground.If you want to pack and wrap Levi's foot, don't forget about sugardine ( betadine + sugar ). When I discovered sugardine ( on this site ), I stopped using Icthamol for drawing. Hey! Good luck! It's been a hard winter all around! |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 8:06 am: Hello Susan,The change in severity of lameness is not diagnostic, almost any acute cause of lameness will improve with time. Even an abscess can get better if it has found a way to leak the purulence out and decrease pressure. As to the soaking, by all means continue with your veterinarians instructions but I am unsure whether he wants you to use hot or cold water and afraid to make a specific recommendation when I don't know what is wrong. DrO |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 11:33 pm: Dr. O, Levi will be going in to the Sioux Falls vet and farrier on Tuesday. So I hope to have an answer then.Just curious if someone was to present with acute lameness and he has shown remarkable improvement in a week, would this rule out at least laminitis type rotation issues? I have been applying a sugardine poultice, and have not soaked for 2 days, also have not given him any bute for 2 days. Would your speculate that this is a bruise or possible abscess? There is no reason to waste money on a vet here to offer an opinion, that is why I am hoping to get your opinion. He is still lame, although I would have to downgrade it to a 2 now. |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 10:04 pm: Well, we went to the farrier/vet in Sioux Falls, Levi was actually moving normal, no one noticed any limp at all.The x-ray showed that he still has rotation, that is the same as the x-ray of 5/09. it is a difference of 18mm and 21mm if that makes sense. His palmer angle is around a 14 on this foot. But since it has not changed since last year, no one was very concerned. He did not have much sole depth, so they think he just had a bad bruise. I am going to put him back on the supplement that seemed to grow him some great hoof. I am hoping when we put him back in his shoes this spring, we can get the palmer angle better. I don't know what else I can do. Just an update. suz |
|
Member: scooter |
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 10:59 pm: Susan, didn't they give any suggestions as to how to de-rotate Levi?? Unfortunately until his hooves are better he will continue to have problems...I have experience in that fieldI am not sure what that means in terms of degree of rotation, if it means he has rotation of 18 and 21 degrees?? I guess regardless of the degree of rotation, he no doubt has a stretched WL and may be why he keeps getting WLD. Rotation is also responsible for or at least contributes to thin soles. A hoof supplement will probably help build a stronger horn, but it will do nothing to help his rotation and associated pathologies. I know what it is like to feel helpless, but sometimes we have to take things into our own hands and do what we can to get them on the "road to recovery" I know you have struggled with Levi's hooves for as long as I have Hanks and it gets frustrating as He$$, but don't give up |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 11:25 pm: Hey Diane, I know you and I have been in continuous struggle.Levi, has actually been sound for quite some time, and barefoot as well. the 18 and 21 is the measurement from the hoof wall to the coffin bone, Like top of coffin bone by the coronary band to the hoof wall, and then from the tip of the coffin bone to the hoof wall. Does that make sense? When they had him in the aluminum shoes, he had a better angle, but He seems to be doing OK with his soundness, till this episode. His white line actually looked better than i thought, just a bit of soft wl, but solid underneath. I forgot to take pics of x-rays today. The hoof supplement will hopefully get his sole depth better. I wish I had more handy resources. But I am going to plan on riding this boy again this year |
|
Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 7:03 am: You have a very handy resource right at your finger tips.Good Luck |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 12:36 am: Here we go again! Yesterday, Levi was running like a crazy guy, in the snow, like he has been doing everyday.today, not putting any pressure on right foot. Had the vet out, he used the hoof tester on his foot, said it seems sore on outside quarter, dug a bit on the white line, said to soak it for a few days. bute, also told me my horse, who is walking one 3 feet, actually was sweating from pain, that he was "probably just being a bit whimpy" I wonder if I should put a poultice on him, and do we leave it on all day. The farrier is coming next week. I am trying a new gal, she has done Levi twice. Sigh . . . |
|
Member: lilo |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 10:02 am: Susan - no advice from me - never have dealt with anything like this. But I sympathize - it must be hard to be told that one's horse is "wimpy" when you know he is in pain.Best wishes, Lilo |
|
Member: mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 10:45 am: I wonder if he hit a hard spot and bruised his foot? Poor boy! I can't let Libby out to move around when their is ice and snow at all; she always comes in lame. I have to hand walk her in the unfrozen arena or keep her in. I hope Levi finds relief soon. |
|
Member: kpaint |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 11:26 am: Any chance that ice and snow bruised his foot? Diva mare was WAY LAME one winter with bruising. I put a Hoof Wrap with gel pads on her and used a deeply bedded stall, used Naproxen when DP was up and the foot felt warm. She recovered just fine. Bruised soles at the toe on the fronts. Good Luck! |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 12:49 pm: Dr. O,I have only seen Levi this lame a few times. I presently have given him 1 gm bute this am, and one last night. He weighs about 1230lbs, should I give him 2 gm together or 1 am 1 pm. The vet was wishy washy on what to do. He did not even have any bute in his truck. mine are 1gm pills expired 11/10. He said he only "carries essentials" on his truck. I called him out for acute lameness, wouldn't bute be an essential?He is laying down alot, which he NEVER does. I am not sure he will be able to stand up for a 2 hour trip to south dakota. Should I try a poultice? Anyone ? It is icy and snowy and i suppose he could be bruised? any ideas how to tell a bruise from a abscess? The vet dug just a little at the white line on the outside quarter and saw no tracks. He was pulling away from the hoof tester all over, but then again he is a "whimpy" horse! Poor Boy! We have had a few good months though! |
|
Member: mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 1:46 pm: Susan, do you have pads on him now? When Libby was so sore from bruising I had her in a deeply bedded stall, kept her on bute, and put soft-ride (easy ride ??) boots with the soft innersold. Home made pads taped on would work also. They seemed to really help her. If you trailer anywhere you should definetly use the pads imo.Also, imo, 1 gm of bute isn't enough to do any good. Dr.O covers bute dosing? Have you seen that? I gave Libby 2 gm. to start, then backed off to 1gm a.m. and p.m., then just 1 in the am. |
|
Member: hpyhaulr |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 2:19 pm: sara,How do you make the home made pads? |
|
Member: kpaint |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 2:39 pm: Cyndy, I've read where members have used styrofoam, gardening pads, etc. traced and cut to size and secured with duct tape. I found the Hoof Wrap product sold on line to work quite well for my purposes...and no cutting...and it's reuseable...and no tape to fool with. |
|
Member: mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 4:29 pm: I use styrofoam, carpeting, whatever I can find that's firm but with give. I double up the styrofoam unless it's an inch or more thick. The easiest was to attach to to make a "base" with the duct tape by making a "criss-cross" then stick the pad on and put it all on the foot with a band of tape around the top, if that makes any sense. At the least, cut strips of tape of the right length, stick them to your jeans, then pull off as needed. Much easier that working with the entire roll of tape while bent over and trying to wrap around the horse's foot. I use an old horse shoe for a pattern, but you can eyeball. Bigger rather than small is better. You can break styrofoam off once it's partially attached.I have the Hoof wraps also. Love them. I put styrofoam in them before putting them on if a horse is sore. |
|
Member: zarr |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 4:32 pm: https://www.hopeforsoundness.com/techsupport/instguides/styrofoamguide.htm this is from a 2007 that was at this site in fact the web site I think is from Sara ?? |
|
Member: mrose |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 5:17 pm: If I posted that, I've forgotten. That is the way I wrap a pad. I use styrofoam from packing boxes, etc. I hoard it. I can sometimes get the thick dense pads from vet or farrier, but not always, and I never seem to have them when I need them.This is the site for the Soft Rides. Imo these things are life savers for horses. I first saw them down in Las Vegas when I was grooming for a friend at the World Cup. A lot of the big name horses arrived wearing these (to make travel less stressful on feet.) If you don't want to spring for the entire shoe and pad, you can purchase the pads and tape them on. The shoes last forever, though, although the pads need to be replaced after awhile. |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 5:51 pm: Hello Susan,It seems to me that the main problem is you lack confidence in your veterinarian. Our problem in trying to make a suggestion is that we don't know why your horse is so lame, your description is one of a horse that is unusually lame for a bruise. Since he was very active I would wonder if the horse has gotten a stress injury or fallen down. If you think there is a bruise Susan I would recommend reading HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Hoof Abscesses, Bruises, and Gravels but if you lack confidence in this also consider the suggestions in HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse. DrO |
|
Member: zarr |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 6:48 pm: Equine Support Systems, Inc.506 Hwy 115 Penrose, CO 81240 Tel: 719-372-7463 Fax: 719-372-7272 Their name was given to me by the clinic that treated Libby. They make a styrofoam support pad that is denser and lasts longer than the regular styrofoam pads made from packing styrofoam, which was used on Libby, and they make a lot of other pads and shoes. They also have something called "EDSS First Alert Kit" for acute Laminitis treatment. |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 11:12 pm: When I can't get/don't have the construction grade stuff, I've used whatever I can find in the belief that something padding is better than nothing. The big difference is, obviously, other foams aren't as dense. If the horse is kept in a stall, just bedding really deep is good. Soft sand is good also, but hard to find this time of year.Cindy, I am still jealous that you live so close to those great vets! |
Member: quatro |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 6, 2011 - 11:21 pm: Thanks everyone. No I don't have faith or confidence in the local vets.I have noticed that in the past when Levi had a sole bruise, if I packed it and put him in a boot, he would have immediate relief. That is why I am concerned that this could be an abscess maybe? Even with the boot on he is still very very lame. He has warm feet, and not a significant pulse. Even the vet said he had an elevated pulse, and when I asked him where to feel for it, he took forever, and said it was not as bad now. So I don't know what route to take. At this point, tonight I gave him 2 gms bute, took off his boot, added more bedding to his stall, and put him to bed. I will soak again tomorrow, I was confused by the article as to whether I should use cold water or hot water soak? We had our basement replaced with the pink insulated form. that is what I have used for Levi in the past. I have him in cavalla boots right now. I have a farrier coming for his trim on Tuesday. I am leaving for Phoenix this weekend coming up, so I hope this is resolved by then. Usually he waits till I am out of town to go lame. This weekend we were supposed to be in Florida for a conference. Apparently Levi did not get the memo that we weren't going, so went ahead and went lame anyhow,. fooled him, didn't I??????? It just breaks my heart to see him in pain. I just don't get a vet who would say my horses is just "faking his pain" and being a "big wimp". does he really think that horses have that type of reasoning? When I move, there will be a good horse vet or I am not moving! |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Feb 7, 2011 - 8:03 am: To promote rupture of an abscess I would use warm water.DrO |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 - 11:20 pm: Levi has been getting a soak every am, booted and then let out in our dry/snow lot. If I try to keep him in he paces. If I let him out he hangs out and eats with the boys.The last two days he has gotten a "bug up his butt" and ran around in the deep snow. He is still sore on that leg, the farrier will be here tomorrow. I noticed tonight his heel bulbs are rubbed pretty good. I am leaving for Phoenix on Saturday, so I hope he will survive till I get back. My question is, since he has slightly improved doing what I am doing, including 2 gms bute at night. Does that seem more like a a bruise than an abscess? thanks suz |
|
Member: mrose |
Posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 - 11:58 pm: Why are his heel bulbs rubbed? The ice and snow? or are his heels so low they hit the ground? |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2011 - 6:41 pm: Susan check out my response in post # 24544 above.DrO |
|
Member: zarr |
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2011 - 8:16 pm: We have not had lots of snow here but a long time of frozen rock hard ground.Whiskey was very sore moving but my farrier said No serious hoof trouble but probably sore from such frozen ground.He has gotten better as things warmed.Hope the same holds true for Levi! |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 - 12:32 am: Well, the farrier came today, and really can not feel any heat or elevated pulse, although he is still lame. She trimmed him, and his feet look great. No crumbly white line, the white line is shrinking. Looks great.I am going to assume it is just a bruise and keep him semi=confined while we are in Phoenix. Probably do a gm of bute for a few more days. Maybe pad him. The bulbs of his heel are rubbed because of the boots rubbing. I have had diapers on the feet before putting on the boots, but he was running around. Off to Arizona tomorrow, hope he survives without me! Can't do much else. suz |
|
Member: zarr |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 - 1:13 am: As it has warmed Whiskey really has improved rapidly.With luck when you get back Levi will be much better! It did scare the tar out of me tho! |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2011 - 9:23 pm: I have called home, and the gal said Levi is doing great. Hardly limping anymore. I think he did FAKE IT!!!! Just to see if I would stay homeOK, I really don't think that, but am glad he is doing well. Probably getting trimmed, and the fact that a week had gone by with soaking etc. silly horse |
|
Member: lilo |
Posted on Monday, Feb 14, 2011 - 11:14 am: That is reassuring. Nothing like being away from home and finding out your horse is getting worse.Lilo |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Saturday, Feb 19, 2011 - 11:02 pm: Well, we got home to ice and flooded barn. The girls kept my horses in while we were away and said Levi was doing fine. He has improved, but is still definately off. It has been 2 weeks today. He has not gotten worse, but still not normal. I am putting his boots on to let him out, as the ice is very chunky and rough. Do You think I should add padding as well? I wrap it with a diaper, just put on his cavallas?Should I go back to soaking? |
|
Member: lilo |
Posted on Sunday, Feb 20, 2011 - 12:17 pm: Susan, no advice from me - just best wishes that Levi will improve. Lilo |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2011 - 8:03 am: Hello Susan,If you believe you have a unresolved bruise and you see no specific contraindications, you can try continued soaking and extra padding to see if it makes your horse more comfortable. This is expanded on in the article on bruises. DrO |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2011 - 11:03 pm: Today, with his boot one, he seemed to walk normal. Kept all the horses in because of huge icestorm, Don't think I will really know till the weather stabilizes. He keeps me on my toes |
|
Member: cometrdr |
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2011 - 1:39 pm: all ya got to do is move to AZ where the weather is fine and the Decomposed Granite is great for the feet! then Levi will be happy (me too!) |
|
Member: mrose |
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 22, 2011 - 2:25 pm: Is that the same AZ I was at this past weekend?! LOL |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2011 - 2:28 pm: Dr.O, I know it is hard to diagnose without seeing a horse, but here is the scenerio.Levi has gradually improved. He has been outside on the snow and ice only in his boots. I have been sick for 4 days, so he actually lived in his boots, the girls forgot to take them off. I had them remove them on Monday night and he was walking fine. It was warm and soft ground snow outside, and we forgot to put the boots on before turnout yesterday. Today he is again, one steppin' it lame. I am not sure on what foot, but I believe it is still the right foot, as he resisted putting weight on that foot when I went to put his left front boot on . Presented with this kind of information, would I be safe to assume he has really thin soles, and is just an ouchy winter boy? I just paid my vet visit/farm call/lameness exam that i described above, so don't really want to go there. If I have to I will load him up and take him to South Dakota again for x-rays, but it is in the negatives on the thermometer here again, and I am not feeling up to a 2 hour trip up quite yet? My gut tells me he has a sole problem, and to follow your recommendations for sole bruises, would you concur???? thanks, just a bit disheartened with not feeling well, and then Levi still not better suz |
|
Member: quatro |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2011 - 8:29 pm: Could the fact that Levi has sidebones in his hoofcapsule have any connection with this lameness on the hard crappy ground around here? I am grasping, I know |
|
New Member: joanh |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 31, 2011 - 10:41 pm: Hello,I believe my horse has a solar abscess at his right front sole. He was limping Monday so I let him rest in stall overnight and assumed he had muscle soreness since I rode him on the street sunday, something we hadnt done in a long time. I treated him with ceramic wraps and rest. I also gave him 1 gram of bute BID. Did the same thing Tuesday. Tonite when I saw him, he could hardly walk. I thought he was going to fall down when we were walking from the field. I freaked out and called the vet who suggested he has an abscess. Someone helped with a sole checker and I do believe he does have an abscess. His digital pulses are regular bilaterally and there is no swelling. I soaked him in very warm water and epsom salt for about 20 minutes and rubbed his leg. He really seemed to like it. I am trying to figure out where the purulence is going to come out. How does it travel up to the coronary band? Does it travel up the laminae? How does it come out the sole? does it come out through the laminae at the sole? Is epsom salt and the Bute BID sufficient? I want something aggressive to get this over with for him. After reading some things on-line, I wonder if I should scrape the white line and look at it. What can I do? My vet is excellent and I trust her very much. I also got a sense from her on the phone this was no big deal and not uncommon, but she would come out if I want her to. Thoughts? Suggestions? |
|
Member: pattyb |
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 31, 2011 - 11:58 pm: If you want a quick resolution to the pain, have the vet, or some other qualified person, pare out the sole below the abscess and let it drain.....obvious reduction in pain practically immediately. Yes, you then have to pack and protect the sole while the abscess drains and the hole closes up...but what's the alternative?Good luck. |
|
Member: shirl |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 1, 2011 - 12:50 am: When I think an abscess is brewing, I call my farrier who will test with a hoof tester to find out where the pain is coming from, then he'll try to get it open so it can drain. After that I soak, apply epson salts and furizen mixture and wrap with a diaper, duct tape then vet wrap.Hope this helps. Farrier vists are generally cheaper than vet calls also. Shirl |
|
New Member: joanh |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 1, 2011 - 7:49 am: Hi All; thanks for your feedback. This morning he is even more tender; I think this is a good thing. Soaked hoof again and isolated him in an outside paddock so he can move about. Hopefully it will pop today! It seems there are two options, let it blow naturally or drill the sole. I am just wondering physiologically, how it works when the abscess is in the sole and it pops naturally. Does a track develop somewhere so the purulence can drain out? where is it excreted? |
|
Member: juliem |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 1, 2011 - 4:20 pm: I don't think it makes a difference where the abscess is located. Paring it out relieves the pain and lessens the damage to the internal structures. Is there a reason you want to wait and soak? |
|
Member: juliem |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 1, 2011 - 4:26 pm: Oh, I see you're not the original poster. Joan, when you start your own discussion you get better and quicker response. I thought this was Susan's horse Levi, but I see you're new. The first thing you want to do is read Dr. O's article on abscesses. It's going to answer most of your questions. Bottom line is that the pain is relieved and further damage avoided if you get it opened and draining. The article is excellent and is very clear. At the bottom of the article is a place to start your own thread. If you read and follow the recommendations in the article, you'll have good results. My thoughts on abscesses are in Susan's thread above. |
|
Member: juliem |
Posted on Friday, Sep 2, 2011 - 8:24 pm: Joan, it looks as if Dr. O isn't seeing your post. I think you'll have to start your own discussion. Go here: You can copy and paste your post from August 31 there. |
|
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Sep 2, 2011 - 9:21 pm: Welcome Joan,Julie has it right, you should back up to the article on Abscesses by clicking the link on the navigation bar at the top of this page. The article on foot abscesses answers most of your questions and provides more information. If you find at that time you still have questions you will find at the bottom of the article a list of the titles of the already existing posts and then at the bottom a start your own discussion button. If you do not see your question answered in the list start your own. By keeping everyone's posts separate the site stays much more organized. DrO |
|
New Member: joanh |
Posted on Saturday, Sep 3, 2011 - 9:27 pm: I see. Okay. Thanks everyone. |
|