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Discussion on Nostril ripped in two on bucket!!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 12:39 pm:
Found my 12 month old halter gelding in his stall Thursday with small amount of blood smeared on his walls. He caught his nostril(s) in the small hook of his water bucket!! You know - the kind we ALL use to feed our horses! Tear was not fresh, looked to be several hours old, and extended all the way up his right nostril. Left one has tear about 1/2 inch long. Can only imaging that he wanted both sides to match???? I mean, he did it on both sides! Remarkably, he was not in much discomfort. Felt fine enough to roll while we were hooking up trailer, then lay there and graze a little.
We threw him in the trailer...ok, so actually, the horse that has been loaded since a small weanling lost his mind and wouldn't load, and was freaked like he's never been in his life!! Why only during emergency??? But that'a another post....
Anyway, called Texas A&M and told them we were on our way. Pulled in at 8 that night. They were amazing, as always. Three of them spent over 2 hours putting layers of stitches on both sides of his face.
They assure me that he should heal with almost no scars; the area has such a huge blood supply that infection in rare, and healing is easy.
We are keeping area covered with Alushield, and rinsing with saline. Stitches have held so far. No sign of infection, drainage, or even discomfort. He is confined to stall until muzzle comes on Monday. Macho is more like a 6 month old lab puppy than yearling Quarter Horse, so preserving the stitches is going to be a challenge. Needless to say he is grumpy.
So, first I want to warn everyone of the unknown danger!!! lolol
Second, does anyone have any experience with wounds of this nature?
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 1:01 pm:
Before, when cleaned up at A&M.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 1:11 pm:
Thanks for the caution!
My buckets have some plastic pieces over that hook part except on those from which they have come off over time.
Sometimes I have covered these with a big round of duck tape, and that will stay on there for quite a good while.
Just a couple of days ago the tape came off the side of a bucket and I am going to go to my barn right now to either replace the tape or hang another bucket.
My horses have not had this degree of injury to their faces though one has had a portion of his nostril nipped off by another horse and that healed beautifully.
Facial injuries do seem to heal quite well when broken bones are not a complication.
My horse Lance had the side of his face cut open wide and deep once to remove a suspected melanoma (it was a type of sarcoid, however) and there isn't even a scar remaining. He never rubbed the wound.
If the wound gets to the point of healing where it is beginning to pull together it may begin to itch, and I have known of horses to scrub stitches out at that point sometimes. Hopefully you will receive the muzzle before things get to that stage with Macho.
It just seems to depend on the horse, but I've personally had exceptionally good luck with horses not scrubbing their facial injuries open.
The muzzle sounds like a very good idea if you can safely train Macho that it is not dangerous to him.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 1:14 pm:
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 1:17 pm:
Ooops, first picture too small!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 1:20 pm:
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 1:29 pm:
Bucket had little black plastic covering edges; looks like he got those off. (Ate them is most likely!)
We have used these for years; never even thought about it. But vets said it is not uncommon injury, although usually not so severe. He is very mouthy, and explores everything with his upper lip. He looks like an elephant when he is really intent. Anyway, he jerked back with enough force to almost straighten bucket handle!
Breeder said that she has seen 4 or 5 horses do this over the years. Wow.
The more expensive the horse, the more emotion and time we have invested, the better they injure themselves. Macho is practically in a padded stall.
If I threw him out in the pasture full of broken metal and cactus, he would be perfectly fine.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 3:26 pm:
WOW! I have those in all my stalls and am going out now to get rid of them! Never thought about how dangerous they could be!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 5:47 pm:
I use a bucket hook similar to this that is screwed to the stall wall. The hook is inside the protective ring, but perhaps Mr. Nosey could have still gotten hurt on it? The picture is misleading as the hook is not really much below the ring. I found the hooks for $3-$6 each. Stainless steel or black powder coat seems to be what I see.
Hope Mr. Nosey heals nicely. Always something. I have one who is a Mr. Nosey and can open anything it seems.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 5:49 pm:
The screws are stainless steel with round heads so there are no sharp edges when someone goes to rub the side of his face on the stall...
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 5:57 pm:
Or are you talking about the bent hook of the bucket handle? After I read about the duct tape, I thought of the bucket handle rather than the bucket hanger...I'll have to look at my buckets...I don't use plastic--use the hard black rubber kind so if someone somehow gets it off the hook, it won't crack and leave jagged edges. The plastic ones seem to get so brittle in the cold weather while I can jump up and down on the rubber ones to bust out the ice and I don't split the bucket. Horses. Worse than toddlers.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 7:34 pm:
Bent hook on bucket handle. It had a small black tip on it to start with. These are the after pictures. It should be notes that the hook WAS NOT that spread out to start with. He bent it open when he ripped his face.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 4, 2010 - 9:09 pm:
What a stinker. I looked at my bucket handle hooks and they have the little plastic black tip cap too; surprisingly they are still on. The end of the tip is bent to touch the handle, so if your little stinker got his lip pinched sticking it in there somehow and then yanked it, OUCHEE. Whomever suggested duct tape further up the discussion may be onto something. I may have to inspect my buckets more closely especially for the one lip Houdini I have.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 1:49 am:
Yes, I had a horse about five or six years ago ( boarder's horse ) that that ripped his nostril a bit worse than your's. It was also awhile before we found it and the wound had dried out. Vet debrided and stitched. The wound was cared for daily, but the horse managed to rub most of the stitching out after few days. I was certain that we'd have a hare-nosed ( as opposed to a hare-lip)horse. But it healed wonderfully with no problems or scars. It also healed really fast.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 9:24 am:
I'm glad to hear that, Lee. Macho's "job" now is a halter horse, and scars from this could be career-ending, so I have been worried beyond words!! So far all has held except for the last stitch on the shorter wound. The stitch is still there, but the skin pulled apart a little.
He is starting to get a little "gunk" buildup inside his nostrils. Looks like big silver boogers. I can't get them to soften, so for now I am leaving them. Figured it was better to have gunk compared to loosening a stitch? There are 3 layers of stitches, and this looks like it's hung on inside layer. Anyone have any ideas about that? Don't want infection to set in now.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 12:40 pm:
Good grief, what they won't do to hurt themselves. Did he go back to make *sure* it was dangerous after ripping the first one?! My experience with facial wounds is also that they tend to heal well. I would probably leave the gunk rather than picking at it...
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 7:46 pm:
They are right Michelle, this area and the whole head is the one bright spot on equine wound healing.
DrO
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 9:36 pm:
Dr. O, you made my day!!!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 11:20 am:
We had a setback last night; he pulled one stitch on the "small" side, and 3 on the "big" side. I had just sprayed him with aluminum spray, and it coated where the wound pulled open. A&M vet said to "make the edges bleed" and stick them back together with tissue glue. Hopes are that he won't unzip the rest of the wound.
Of course, I have no tissue glue, and there is no way I can keep him still long enough to rough up the edges without pulling everything out. I needed someone to sedate him and help. Called SIX (yes 6!!) vets to come out this morning. Several were already on farm calls, but the "locals" told me that it wasnt' really an emergency, and didn't warrant a drive out!! GGGGRRRR While I know he isn't going to die today, his "looks" are extremely important.
Anyway, vet from another town said he would come see what, if anything, could be done, and understood that the cosmetic result is very important.
Lee - did the wound on your boarder's horse pull back together? I am afraid his nose is going to have lobes!!!!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 12:48 pm:
Unless badly contaminated, I would consider cleaning and replacing the stitches as the head can go longer than other areas before stitching.
DrO
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 1:36 pm:
Thank you so much for the quick reply, Dr. O. Vet looked at him, said the exact same thing. Going to sedate him, pull broken stitches, and clean it. He said once he could really see the wound he would decide which will have better chance of holding on a rather "active" yearling - new stitches or tissue glue. 
We have a really good, stiff muzzle on him, just looks like stitches gave way.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 2:44 pm:
Dr. O - The breeder we bought Macho from also recommended I ask my vet about EquineVet Acemannan Smart Gel. She said she has had very good results with getting wounds to heal faster and with less scarring, but has never used it on a face. She has YEARS of experience, and was a vet tech for a decade, but it's not a product my vet is familiar with.
This is the description of it:
An advanced technology wound dressing formulated with glycerin and containing Acemannan HyDrOgel for the care and pain relief of wounds - Acemannan HyDrOgel is the only medical component derived from Aloe Vera distinguished with clearance from the FDA for the management of wounds and cessation of pain - regulates the amount of moisture present - its intelligent response allows the gel to either donate moisture to dry wounds or absorb exudate from wet wounds
I came across a description of how is specifically works, but can't find it now!!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 1:14 pm:
I don't typically put topicals on top of my sutures except maybe for the first day. I might consider a layer of tissue glue over the sutures because the sutures will get wet when the horse drinks.
DrO
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 2:46 pm:
Thanks, Dr. O. Very nice vet from next town over has made several trips over last few days. Short version is that is looks like there were too many sutures and the wound lost adequate blood flow. Also, suture material was very large, stiff plastic. This vet has been in this business LOOONG time, and very nicely suggested that the new, younger vets still in school who put in the first stitches might have been a tad over-exhuburant in an effort to preserve cosmetic appearance of show horse. He said that with a very nice smile. Anyway, there was also large amounts of tissue growing INSIDE his nostril; that's what the boogers were that I couldn't get to soften.
He removed the busted stitches and recut the wound. He said tissue glue just not best for this situation in his opinion. He re-stitched with different material. In the end, he removed 33 stitches, put in 7!!!!!!
He also gave him 25 ccs gentamiacin, and I am to repeat this afternoon.
In the mean time, I will be giving him ace tablets in food twice a day. We also lined the inside of his muzzle with sanitary napkins to help protect wound even more from his attempts to rub.
Whew!!
Anyway, he said for first few days just leave it alone as much as possible. Fingers and toes are crossed!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 2:52 pm:
What an ordeal, Michelle.
I hope that you are now going in the right direction with getting this healed up.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 3:01 pm:
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 3:11 pm:
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 10, 2010 - 1:25 am:
Michelle, the lobes of the wound came together and the horse healed perfectly. A couple of years after, we would always remark that it was incredible that we couldn't remember which nostril had the cut....right or left?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 11, 2010 - 9:26 am:
Michelle you misunderstand me, I would not recommend tissue glue for re-opposing the wound. I would consider using it after the sutures are put in to seal the edges of the wound against the water in the water bucket. But I don't consider it essential I have healed many of these with sutures alone.
DrO
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 - 2:27 pm:
We survived! Macho's stitches came out on Monday. We were all about crazy! 20 days in a stall with a muzzle was torture for a VERY active yearling. He learned to remove the comfortable padded leather halter, and we had to switch to a tighter nylon one. His head was sore, he was in an evil mood, and we were worn out taking care of him.
If you can get him still enough to study, you can see the white line of the scar. It will probably turn back black and not be noticeable. The other side with the small hunk missing is also filling in without the aid of stitches.
After 2 days of munching on grass and being put back to work, we are all feeling better. I will post pics later.
Thanks to all who had encouraging words!! Macho was a serious investment, and I was very very worried about the outcome.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 - 4:33 pm:
Great news, Michelle! Thanks for the update.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 5:57 am:
Great to here Michelle.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 3:57 pm:
Wonderful news!
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 12:27 am:
Thanks so much for letting us know! I can't imagine what it was like to go through that with a yearling.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 10:26 am:
Macho's nose about a week and a half after stitches came out. Scar is already re-pigmented; hair is starting to grow back. Chunk missing from other side is filling in. I treat is with vitam. E and Acemannen, an aloe vera product. From any distance at all, scar is not visible. Judge will never be able to tell. Our first show is next weekend!! Whoo hoo!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 10:38 am:
The day of his injury, he had a bad scare in the trailer. Broke the trailer tie and bolted; took 45 minutes to get him back in. Since then, he as discovered how to break leather halters and/or move whatever he is tied to. He does not spook, just has a temper tantrum and escapes. Sooooo.....we are "relearning" to be patient and stand. Notice the big chain around a tree, rope halter, and blocker tie ring! lol I am also off camera with pebbles in my hand to peg him for pawing or attempting to untie himself. He is the Houdini of the horse world. Anyway, have to nip this "vice" in the bud before he is 1600 lbs and 16.2!!! Never had a horse with pull-back issue, and don't want to start one now.
We are still facing shutting the divider in the 4 horse slant load. He hops right in and will stand there all day, but shutting the divider causes a fit.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to fix that problem, I am all ears!! I will also post that under "trailering".
Again, thanks for the advice and kind words from everyone.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 12:41 am:
Been an exciting month for you, hasn't it? Glad to see that amazing healing! I agree that he's got to stop the pull back thing as soon as possible. Once you get it stopped, make sure that he never gets a chance to break equipment again.
That's quite a nice neck on your guy!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 8:52 am:
We worked for about 20 minutes yesterday; he LOVES to hop right in the trailer, but divider was scaring him. When I would start to shut it, he wanted to back out of trailer. Plus, I didn't want to tie him and have another mental episode! lol
He knows what "stand" means (the ultimate whoa for a halter horse) so I worked on stand, move forward, and back up in the trailer without backing out, making him stay put in slant area without being tied, and moved the divider around so he could get used to it again.
First time I shut it, he was nervous but didn't freak. He did back out rather quickly when I opened the slant, so we worked on overcoming the "flight" response with some pretty stern WHOAS and STAND.
Second time, no problem shutting it, and he stood there when it opened until I told him to back up. He was fidgety and shifted around alot, but did better than I was expecting.
He is still nervous about it, but he did what he was asked. Impatient little poot. Plus, I have to remember that he is 13 months old, and being fit for halter, which is the equivalent of feeding skittles and mountain dew for a diet!
Lee - thanks so much!! Neck is his worst part, you should see his booty lololol First show is next weekend. I am TOTAL amateur; been sending kids in the ring for several years, but this will be my first. Hope I don't puke....... I read Stacy's blog for inspiration! Showing is supposed to be fun, and I am trying to overcome the first one and just survive.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 10:35 am:
Glad his injury is healing so well! I second Lee's comments on pulling back, once they figure out they are big and strong enough to break halters it's a tough thing to fix.
I'd also add that tying in the trailer before the divider is shut is quite dangerous as you have already discovered. Worse than breaking free is the episode where the tie holds and the horse slips and goes down in the trailer and starts thrashing wildly, or even worse yet gets partway out and slips under the trailer. That happened to an acquaintance recently, talk about a career ending episode for a halter horse.
I would work on closing the trailer divider gradually, just allowing him time to get comfortable with it just like you are doing.
Good luck in the show ring!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 10:46 am:
Let us know how you do at the show, Michelle. Please have someone take lots of pix. I can't remember if someone has started a 2011 Show thread yet (I think Sara W may have?) but be sure to post those pix for us.
Very glad Macho healed so beautifully!
Good luck!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Apr 30, 2010 - 2:38 pm:
For a horse with this similar problem I had my daughter or a friend help me by standing outside the trailer window, slowly feeding pieces of carrots while I was slowly and cautiously closing the divider. Likewise with opening it and preparing to unload.
After a couple of times of doing it that way the horse was calm about loading, being tied, closing the divider, etc.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, May 9, 2010 - 11:11 pm:
Whoo hoo! Show huge success! I didn't puke, he was very good boy, and we won GRAND CHAMPION GELDING!! I'm hooked now  . Great day all around - hauled to horse show early Sat. morning, Macho won, then traded out horses in the afternoon, and my daughter ran her barrel horse that night and posted her first 2D time! Lots of celebrating in our house.
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Sunday, May 9, 2010 - 11:16 pm:
Oh, and he loaded and hauled like a pro, and I tied him to the trailer (with a tie ring, of course) and again, excellent boy all around. He had a brief moment in first class when I had chain too tight, but he settled well. By grand champion class, my yearling actually fell asleep! Would never have figured from my wild child.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 7:02 am:
Congratulations, Michelle!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 9:47 am:
Wow - great news. Congratulations and good luck! Lilo
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 10:52 am:
Congrats Michelle!! Where are the photos?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 6:27 pm:
Congratulations Michelle!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Tuesday, May 18, 2010 - 3:37 pm:
My mother snapped this while we were fitting halters, getting ready to grease that face up. Notice that he is almost asleep - so much for the wild child!
As you can see, not even a scar! I am so shocked -thought after the vet had to cut away wound there would be some type of pucker to the skin, but NOTHING!! I especially didn't expect this type of result just five weeks out from initial injury.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, May 18, 2010 - 4:23 pm:
Cool, you can't even tell there was anything wrong! I once had a horse almost completely rip his eyelid off and it healed the same way, was totally invisible. And that was even with me stitching it myself - was either do that or wait till the next day when a vet could get to us. (living remotely = lessons in independence)
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, May 18, 2010 - 11:25 pm:
Thank you for the picture, Michelle! ( Nice neck, nice chest ) I would have been surprised if you didn't get a perfect result. The horse I spoke of was quite old when he ripped his nostril. The healing power of the horse's head will never cease to amaze me.
Good luck with your sweetie, Michelle! Thanks again for the pictures!
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 - 4:32 pm:
Update - My 12 year old Cole and Macho at their latest show 1 year later.....just wanted to show them both off! lol
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Member:
cmatexas
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Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 - 4:35 pm:
By the way, every bucket we have is duck taped, and he is fed out of a 50 gallon barrel cut in to and mounted to the wall.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 - 8:07 pm:
Thanks for the photos Michelle, and good forewarning to everyone.
DrO
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 - 8:57 pm:
Thanks Michelle.
Nice picture!!
Reminds me some screws were coming loose on the boards of the corner feeder, better add that to my "to do" list.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 - 1:02 am:
What a gentleman! Gorgeous!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 - 9:53 am:
Thanks for the update - great looking horse!
Lilo
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 - 10:49 am:
A wonderful outcome! Congrats!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 - 10:37 pm:
Thanks for posting this up-date!
Happy for you with how things worked out!!!
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