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  Discussion on Horse Allergy due to Flies and No Seeums
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New Member:
tinaf

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 2:42 pm:

Hi,
I have a 11 yr old grey quarter horse that has terrible skin irritations due to insect bites. It has gotten progressively worse in the past 2 years. It has already started this year, maybe because it's been in the mid-80s the past couple of days. Here is what's happening:

Small sores that generally scab and then reopen on his sheath area, on the midline of the belly and on his chest near the top of both of his legs. His tail is constantly flicking and he is rubbing his belly on the ground to itch himself.

I use fly spray and will be switching to a 1:32 mix of 50% malathion. He wears a fly sheet and I spray before going out and also use fly swat on the affected areas. In the summer he stays in his stall during the day and out at night. I also use a stall spray that goes off every 15 mins to control the flies in the stall.

I am going to give him a cc of depo-meDrOl because I heard that is longer acting than dex. My question is if the depo doesn't work, is it okay to start the dex and what dosage should I be giving? Also if it looks like the depo is working, how often should I give it?

Oh yeah, I had given him tri-hist last year but he now refuses to eat his grain with the tri-hist in it. I heard that flax seed might help his coat, would that be worthwhile to try?

Is there anything else I can be doing?
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 3:42 pm:

hi tina...Viki's Diva mare is going thru it too. Its that time of year <sigh>

DrO will answer you re the medication, but I wanted to give my 2 cents FWIW.
I used human grade Deet. It was very effective...deep woods off, the strongest one they made.. I used it when I was riding or whenever I needed her sheet off.

I dont know what kind of fly sheet u use but have you tried the one with the chemical in it? its called Bug Shield...or something like that. Ive heard good things about it, maybe someone will remmeber the name or brand.

best wishes
leslie
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:01 pm:

Tina, welcome to HA! I also have a mare that suffers terribly from sweet itch. Every year we try something different and every year by the end of the summer the top of her tail is rubbed down to nothing. The only real solution would be to move her to an area that has no no-see-ums, but for me that would mean selling her =)

I will be trying Leslie's suggestion of deet this year. I have also had some luck with adding essential oils of citronella, eucalyptus, clove and pennyroyal to regular fly spray. The pennyroyal is the really effective stuff but is toxic to pregnant/breeding animals (which I was last year!) so last year didn't get to use it.

Hopefully between the lot of us with sweet itch problems we will come up with something that works on all horses!
New Member:
tinaf

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 8:12 pm:

Hi,
The flysheet I have is Saratoga Horseworks but the problem is the underbelly where the sheet doesn't cover. I looked into a full belly wrap but they are going to be extremely hot for our area so that's not going to work.

Tonight his sheath is swollen quite a bit. This happened last year, but not until September. This does not bode well. I applied neosporin to the area in hopes that it will promote some healing. He didn't go out until after dusk. Tomorrow we'll get a break in the weather, but I need to be ready when the fly season is here to stay.

Any other hints would be appreciated.

Tina
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 9:48 pm:

LOL check this out~
https://www.specialtyhorsegear.com/bellydickie.html

with sheath shield ~LOL
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 11:16 pm:

Hi Tina, welcome to HA.

My diva mare looks like bubble wrap--I think it's hives after midges/flies/mosquito bites...

Last year April/May/June we had a tough time. I used the deep woods Off with Deet as Leslie suggested;however, I didn't start using it until after the hives were a big problem. Deet seemed to help; however, the hives happen even if she has SOME bites. She has all of the fly sheet, full face fly mask, fly boots, etc.! The no see ums can get through the tiniest mesh.

Vet said start Tri-Hist granules this year the 1st of April as preventative for the hives. ANd I'll use the Deet to cut down on the number of bites...I hope.

Diva mare is particular. Of course. I mix the Tri-Hist in 1/4 cup unsweetened applesauce and mix that with her ration balancer pellet feed and cocosoya oil and I sneak in the loose minerals too. She EATS IT right away. Don't know what part of the combo it is that makes it yummy, but I'm glad she'll eat it! She won't eat loose minerals. She won't eat meds. Unless. I mix it in w/ applesauce and pellet feed. Then it must taste like crack because she nickers a bunch for it when she hears me whipping it up with my spatula banging the bowl. ?

So far, so good. The fans are running right now. The humidity is high. It's still 60 degrees and I live in northern Indiana. We had a thunderstorm. There isn't much wind right now. So. If there are bugs, they should be biting her right now. We'll see how she looks in the morning.

So there's my story/experience/preventative attempts.

Did the Tri-Hist work for you? And now he won't eat it? If it works for Diva, I will mix it with whatever I have to, to get her to eat it! She was miserable last year.

Wish you luck! Can't give you advice about the drugs you mention. I'm not qualified!
New Member:
tinaf

Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 10:00 am:

Vicki,
Logan ate the trihist on his pelleted complete feed for about 3 wks and it may have done some help, but I was still judiciously applying fly spray, ointments, etc everywhere. When he quit taking the trihist, I tried mixing it with all the following items (not together but individually), applesauce, molasses, oil and applesauce, but nope, he wouldn't eat it. It's actually very bitter when I tried it on my tongue. We ended up oral dosing him with it and mixing with water, but because it's mixed in cornmeal, that doesn't dissolve and it was a real pain trying to do it. It generally took a couple dosings.

Leslie, I am seriously thinking about purchasing this belly dickie. I had seen a full body wrap at the AETA conference but it was around the whole body and did not offer any type of ventilation.

I took photos of Logan's sheath and belly last nite but wasn't able to get them to 64K for upload. He doesn't get hives, just small tiny sores that seep and bleed.

Thanks again for the advice.
Tina
Member:
npo33901

Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 9:19 am:

The belly dickie looks very effective on the picture, but will the horse like it and will it stay on - it will get off in play e.t.c.

My horse is worse every year He has already nostrils full of ulcers and sheath area is full of bites . His sheath is swallen also - which didn't happened last year . I suspect it is allergy , which is increasing every year .

I've started to use TABARD South African product. It works, but I am afraid to spray it too much onto his sheath and between his back legs .

I do feed them garlic fresh OR garlic powder or granules. Those I buy in Big food store ( sort of wholesale) . Much cheaper than in the horse supply stores.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 12:57 pm:

Welcome Tina,
We do not recommend either steroid treatment you list above as over the course of a summer you may cause adrenal suppression. Dosages for Depo-MeDrOl (methylprednisolone) and dexamethasone along with an explanation of adrenal suppression can be found at Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Steroids, Overview of Anti Inflammatory Use.

The first and most important recommendation is to follow all the management techniques described in the article on Culicoides Hypersensitivity. If you find you still need help consider some of the effective antihistamines which we list in the article. Note; Trihist is not one of them. Lastly if you still have itching alternate day therapy (ADT) with prednisone is the safest way to treat your horse with steroids. There is a link to the ADT article on this in the article associated with this discussion area.
DrO
Member:
frances

Posted on Saturday, Apr 10, 2010 - 8:49 am:

Prednisolone?
Member:
npo33901

Posted on Saturday, Apr 10, 2010 - 10:23 am:

Tabard is made on Deet basis.....
New Member:
tinaf

Posted on Saturday, Apr 10, 2010 - 10:50 am:

Dr. O,
I have read all the articles that you mentioned. My vet did give him a cc of depo-med. I understand the implications but at this point he was in pure misery.

Anyway, I am finding that the 50% malathion mixed at 1:32 is really keeping the bugs off. In addition, I have ordered the belly dickie so I'll give everyone an update when I get it. Fortunately, my horse is not one to play so now the question will be if he will tolerate wearing this. At this point, I'm willing to give it a try.

Tina
Member:
paul303

Posted on Sunday, Apr 11, 2010 - 12:14 am:

I had a problem with cullicoides sensitivity back in the eighties and nineties. My mare got so bad that she would drag herself across the paddock on her belly with her front legs. She was a bloody mess all season on the top of her tail, her mane, and right down her chest and belly. The vet tried everything with no real relief. It's heartbreaking to see the agony they go through. We finally took SWAT...it only came in "violent pink" back then, and slathered it on the affected areas. And I mean SLATHERED. As in 1/4 inch thick or more. It was an awful mess, but as long as we were careful about keeping it up....it worked. We also used it to get rid of those blood sucking squishy ear bugs that would line the ears. I don't know if it was the repellant or the goo that stopped the bugs...or both. It was hard to do, and it was also a sticky, gunky, mess...but my mare was comfortable. In 1997, we moved to an area that doesn't have cullicoides. She never had the problem again. She grew a beautiful mane and her tail filled in. The only reminder of those bad times is that the top of her tail grew in white ( she's a dark, dark red ).

A few years back, I bought some of that "War Paint" to try around the eyes. It really worked, and I remember thinking that I wished it had been around when I was dealing with cullicoides. It might work well, and not be half the problem the SWAT was. You'd need a lot, and it does attract dirt ( so did the SWAT ), but it stays on much better than SWAT and you'd need a much thinner layer. You'd have to check to see if the War Paint can be applied to raw, open oozing areas.

Whatever you do, good luck. It's such a frustrating problem.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 11, 2010 - 9:13 am:

Hello Tina,
I am not recommending you do not treat the horse with steroids but responding to your question on how to use them. 1 cc Depo is used to treat a small animal and too small to have an effect in a horse and the continuous use of dexamethasone risks the dangers of chronically suppressing the adrenal glands. The articles I reference explain a total management program for dealing with this aggravating problem and when all else fails explains ways to use steroids over the course of a bug season safely.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Sunday, Apr 11, 2010 - 8:17 pm:

It is a frustrating problem and it's further frustrating to read and receive conflicting medical advice. Sigh. Purdue equine vet tells me to try Tri-Hist but this site says the science doesn't point to using Tri-Hist. Good luck Tina, even with the meds and the "fly clothes" and turn out in "least buggy" times...it still can be a problem. Hope the steroids give your horse some relief soon.
Member:
gramsey1

Posted on Monday, Apr 12, 2010 - 11:54 am:

Malathion is pretty strong stuff.
You might want to consider possible effects on those who may come into contact with the horse.

Applicable links:
https://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/fenitrothion-methylpara/malathi on/malathion-rnn1.html

Barns and livestock is an unsupported use.

https://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/pets/execsum.asp
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Apr 12, 2010 - 1:32 pm:

The problem with TriHist is that the antihistamine in it (last time I looked), pyrilamine, has not been found to that effective. Recent research suggests one reason is it is poorly absorbed (appx 18%) from the gi tract following oral administration. However we have little scientific work on the other "recommended" antihistamines just that some dermatologist have reported more success with them. However these systemic allergic diseases are frustrating and don't respond identically. In a desperate situation I might try pyrilamine but years ago when I prescribed a lot of it I saw little effect for allergic coughing, hives, or CH.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, Apr 12, 2010 - 3:45 pm:

Dr. O, is there anything (medication, food, etc.) that might facilitate absorption of the pyrilamine in the Tri-Hist from the GI tract? What was/is the antihistamine that you had the most success with?

I know in humans, allergies can be maddening to treat. We had great difficulty pinpointing a medication which would work for my daughter. Lot of trial and error. Nothing is perfect of course, but she finally found one that seems to treat her symptoms better than others.

I'm hoping Diva Mare responds to the Tri-Hist. So far, so good. If it does work, I'm buying a lottery ticket before my luck runs out.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 13, 2010 - 7:44 pm:

Vicki, in cases of culicoides hypersensitivity uncontrolled by management I use alternate day therapy with prednisolone. The recommendations in the articles on antihistamine use comes from equine dermatologists but I don't use them for the reasons listed in the article and because of their expense.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 13, 2010 - 7:48 pm:

Thanks Dr. O!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Aug 19, 2010 - 7:52 am:

Tina, how is your horse? I have continued to use the Tri-Hist 2x daily faithfully and Diva mare has been much, much better this year.

Management wise, I have NOT used a fly mesh blanket or boots this year. I have rarely used fly spray but when I do, it's the Off 40% Deet. Sometimes I spray it directly on the skin and other times I spray it on a brush and wipe it on or on a cloth and wipe it own. She does wear a fly mask frequently as she has blue eyes and pink skin under her almost bald face. (Interestingly, she has black skin around her eyes...makes it look like she has eyeliner on with the blue eyes and bald face) She has a luxury fan set up which keeps flies at bay while lounging in her stall. she has had limited use as she has been busy growing "new" feet, so she hasn't been exposed to forested places (trail riding) Her pasture has NO trees and just a wee bit of shade. She is not turned out after 9 am or before 6 pm during the hot, hot summer months unless we have a cooler, windier, overcast day and then she might go out earlier in the late afternoon. She does not stay out overnight. She doesn't want to be out at night at all. That seems to be when the mosquitoes drive her insane. I keep the pasture clipped pretty short. So, for what it's worth, that's been my experience with Tri-Hist and my management practices this summer.

Hope your horse has responded well.
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