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  Discussion on CHOKE, What caused this?
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Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 3:56 pm:

Perry (who is recovering from laminitis) had profound symptoms on Monday that seemed similar to those of a colic of sudden onset.

For breakfast, Perry ate his 1 1/2 cups of pellets plus nearly a cup of psyllium.

Next he received a small bucket of grass forage.

I noticed that he left some forage uneaten and upon examination of it thought to myself "Thank goodness he didn't eat that." It was extraordinarily fine, very dry and fibrous. I thought to myself that something of that texture could surely ball up in an esophagus or digestive system. Of course, I couldn't be sure whether he had in fact ingested some of that fine, dry forage.

Perry seemed fine though, and did not consume any water before I took him out on a grassy area to get some exercise and controlled grazing.

He grazed for about an hour and a half, and before I lifted his head from the ground to lead him back to the barn he was grazing on some weeds that had tiers of small, fluffy white flowers. The green parts were not particularly significant -- fairly narrow bladed leaves.

Perry did throw his head up as I led him between some plastic fencing posts that I had been putting up to create an expanded grazing area for future use but it didn't seem like a major "spook."

Upon arrival at the barn, he was uninterested in the water bucket where he usually gets a drink. When I put him into the stall he immediately began pawing before he went down and began rolling and writhing.

Next he went out into the paddock and continued this behavior.

It soon became evident that he was distressed.

In between he would stretch his neck down to the ground, rub his head on me, and also stretched his neck down low and banged his head on my lower legs.

While lying down, he had a period of very rapid respiration with his sides heaving and quickly began breaking out into a sweat.

I took him outdoors and tried walking him around.

All he would do is reach his neck down to the ground and paw, acting as though he wanted to go down again.

I called my Vet with this emergency telling him that Perry seemed to be having a sudden, severe colic. I was fortunate that my Vet was in the area so he arrived within a few minutes.

Upon closer examination of the symptoms at hand, my Vet thought that Perry might be suffering from choke.

Perry was not cooperative about the gastric tube, untranquilized or lightly tranquilized. Under heavier tranquilization he just hung his head and breathed but would not swallow the tube. My Vet gave him an injection to reverse the tranquilizing, and we took a short break and walked Perry around for a bit.

My Vet tried various tubes and every time he would get it into the beginning of the stomach he would run into a mass and the tubing would kink.

Finally he was able to place the tube into a safe enough location where he pumped two gallons of water past the mass.

What a mess. We were both bloodied from Perry's nose bleeding due to fighting of the tube insertion. Both of us had blood all over our clothes and my Vet had it on his face, neck, arms and hands. The center aisle of the barn looked like a murder scene.

This whole process seemed to take forever, and I know that my Vet was there for over an hour -- nearly two.

He had me walk Perry around and around to see how he would react.

Perry continued to want to paw, which usually means that he also wants to go down. He was making no attempt to eat or drink.

My Vet instructed me to watch him and walk him for 15 minutes out of each hour for the remainder of the day (By then it was then nearly 1:30 P.M.)

It was necessary to walk more than that to keep him from going down.

Perry had been given a shot of Banamine and another drug for colic since he had continued to show some colic signs, but my Vet was sure that choke was involved.

By late afternoon Perry was again grazing for a few minutes and began showing positive signs of recovery.

He was allowed no grain or hay that evening but could have some in the morning if he was okay.

I asked my Vet if I could give Perry a cup of oatmeal and half cup of applesauce so he would think that he had dinner, which my Vet said was okay. Perry didn't think much of this offering though he did eat it all over the next couple of hours.

During the night time I gave him a dose of Miracle Clay, which I had mixed up earlier, as he has had a touchy stomach and has recently been treated for ulcers.

Perry seemed to be doing well in the morning though there was still some blood from one of his nostrils and on his front leg where he had rubbed it. I briefly thought that he had torn his leg open during the night until I began cleaning the area and found it was not a wound!

Three days later there is still a little bleeding, now out of both nostrils, but he seems okay.

What I am curious about is whether this choke was caused by a combination of factors -- dry forage, dry feed and dry psyllium pellets, which eventually began expanding, and then grazing on grass/weeds, or was it simply from choking on those weeds?

My suspicion is that it was a combination of the factors that led up to the result.

Any opinions?

Although Perry has been doing some snorting today (my morning greeting was a blast of stuff into my face out of his nose) and I did hear him cough once, nothing has been persistent, so hopefully there will be no complications.

I will post a separate up date about the progression of the laminitis situation later.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 5:44 pm:

That sounds just like Hanks first choke, blood and all. Vet couldn't get a tube down Hank either. Hank the glutton is prone to choke on tall grass he eats too fast and chokes. I have gotten to the point if he doesn't pass the choke himself I give him banamine which has worked everytime (must relax him) He usually clears himself after pawing, holding his neck low, and getting up and down a few times. The first time he choked and threw a fit in panic, now he seems to keep calm and pass it himself it seems to help if I rub his neck firmly.. He hasn't choked in quite a long time, but for awhile he was doing it every week.

I water his pellets to mush, watch him on tall grass and thankfully no chokes in quite sometime. He never had a problem with hay.

Hope Perry is on the mend from his laminitis!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 6:07 pm:

Perry does bolt his food! Who needs to chew it first . . .

He has started with some choke for me a couple of times before but managed to clear it with me massaging his neck and encouraging him to stretch it.

This time was quite a show during which he did panic and get overly worked up.

The overly fine stuff in his grass forage was just as fine as a human hair but very stiff, and somewhat curled up into a ball.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 7:06 pm:

Hello Vicki,
In a normal swallow food is passed down the esophagus to the stomach within seconds. Stuck food is immediately uncomfortable particularly to those horses who do not have the problem chronically. Chokes in horses without anatomical defects should be viewed as a acute onset event from the last food bolus swallowed before the onset of symptoms.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 8:25 pm:

Thanks, Dr. O -- That approach would implicate the patch of weeds eaten plus the spook.

Does that then entirely rule out the prior ingested items as contributors?
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 - 8:26 pm:

Vicki,
35 years of owning and training horses and not once did I have a horse choke. Then 2 years ago, I had one horse choke twice and my race mare choke once. Two different situations.

My racemare choked on the way home from her best race (figures). We did not know it until we took her off the trailer and it looked like she puked all over it. I had never seen one choke before and had to call the vet at 3 a.m. because everything under the sun was coming out her nose and mouth by the gallon. The vet got her unblocked, put her on antibiotics and she eventually was fine. Her choke happened because she refused to drink any significant water after she raced, and as was my custom at the time(I no longer do this because of her) shipped her home with a haybag (4 hour trip to get home). We cooled her out for several hours and could not get her to drink. When we loaded her she seemed to be fine except for the water issue. She does not do well with strange water. I knew I would have to water her out when I got home and I knew she would not drink anything in the trailer. I should have known something was wrong because she must have choked right at the beginning of the trip because she was way too quiet on the trip home. So lesson learned was no hay, if she has not had a good drink before she gets on the truck.

Horse # 2 did it twice for the same reason, he bolted his food. The first time he did it, it cost me a small fortune between the vet call and the antibiotics. The second time he did it, I followed the advice given here and he cleared the blockage on his own after about twelve hours. I think the biggest thing for me was understanding that the blockage wasn't inhibiting his breathing. He seemed to resolve it by being super relaxed head hanging down, neck stretched and breathing very slowly. I quit feeding him in a feed tub and started spreading his hay and then spreading the feed on top of the hay. Eating with his head down and not being able to bolt his feed helped and he did not have another choke incident.

I am not sure if what I do now helps, but my horses get their feed watered down every day to try and help prevent chokes in the future.

I hope Perry is ok, you have had more than enough to deal with.

Rachelle
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 7:04 am:

Very interesting cases, Rachelle.

Thanks for sharing.

There is always so much more to learn about horses, it seems.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 11:11 am:

Yes, thanks all of you for sharing! This novice would be horrified with an instance of choke, but now that I've read the experiences you have shared, I'll be better prepared.

Surprisingly, thankfully, I haven't seen choke yet from the Hoover Hafie, Windy. He is a pig, bolts his food, stuffs his mouth, and greedily grabs another bite... If I put poop in a bucket, he would eat it all before he realized what he had eaten. The slow down hay feeders help. The grazing muzzle helps. Keeping the pastures short helps. And when he gets his tiny portion of ration balancer pellet feed and minerals/salt, I put Cocoasoya on it so it is moist but not mushy--trying avoid a sticky ball to get stuck due to his gluttony. ! I do honestly believe horses are as bad as a 2 year old when it comes to their own safety...

Vicki, sure hope Perry bounces fully back. You have had your share lately!!!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 11:12 am:

Rachelle, I've always been fearful of a horse getting choke while being trailered, and I haul long enough destances that I need the horses to eat and drink during their ride. I learned to fill a bucket wil really soupy alfalfa cubes - about 3 times as much water as cubes. This makes a mess, but the horses happily slurp it up and I've never had a choke. Once you've seen a bad case of choke, you don't want to see another one! I use the cubes instead of pellets because the fibers are longer.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 11:15 am:

good to know Sara. When trailering, in everyone's opinion, how often should a horse be watered/fed in moderate weather?
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 12:37 pm:

I stop for at least 15 mins every 3 hrs and offer the horses water and give them a chance to pee. A lot of horses won't urinate while moving as they have trouble stretching out so the urine doesn't get on their legs. I don't take my horses out, but I know people that do. After 3 hrs. (I'm ready to stretch my legs for a few mins also.) Some horses won't drink, which is another reason I use the sloppy alfalfa mix; at least they are getting some water that way. I don't feed dry hay or grain until we get to where we are going. If it's across country, we stop at a horse hotel or fairgrounds for the night. I've driven with trainers thought that don't stop until they get to where they are going, except for fuel. They did stop every few hrs. for 20 mins. for the horses to pee and drink. These were horses that were really used to travel, and they ate and drank good on the road.
Member:
hpyhaulr

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 12:57 pm:

We keep hay in front of them 24/7 in the trailer. We stop every 3-4 hours for water refills. If they are trailering over 500 miles (many will be 2000+) then we ask the 'pick up contact' to hold all grain for 48 hours prior to pick up. If not already on electrolytes, we want them started on them 48 hours prior and they will be kept on them through their time with us. Then there's the Arabs...they refuse to drink the first 8 hours, we tempt them with SLOPPY beet pulp/molasses upon loading up to get around that in compromising heat. Applesauce, maybe some cantaloupe or watermelon and we are good to go. Thank God, we have never had a choke...or a colic. If there is ANY hx of colic, we want them oiled prior to loading up. No point in risking a repeat... somewhere in the middle of death valley...After hearing what you went through, I will jump through any hoop to avoid it. Impressive the way you kept your cool and handled it so well!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Apr 23, 2010 - 3:38 pm:

Thanks, Vicki. Perry is my "problem child" it seems, and they really are like toddlers, aren't they?

I put in all of the details because I thought that something might help someone who finds themselves in the same predicament.

Some horses with choke will just stand around rather quietly and play in the water bucket without drinking (which some do with colic too, of course) and without eating anything for a very long time. Eventually the symptoms will worsen as described in Dr. O's article.

Great ideas for keeping the horses hydrated, Sara and Cyndy.

My Lance will not drink water in the trailer but has finally learned to pee once he realizes that the trip is not to one of our normal destinations but is instead going to be a really long journey.

Most horses will feel much more comfortable about urinating in the trailer if you put shavings on the floor.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Apr 24, 2010 - 12:29 pm:

After having some bloody and other nasal discharge for 4 - 5 days, Perry now has no further problems related to the episode of choke.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Apr 24, 2010 - 2:02 pm:

good news vickiz!
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