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Discussion on 2 abscess???
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 7:08 am:
2 days ago my horse Moose had a little lower leg swelling, digital pulse and heat on the inner side of his RH hoof. He was resting it a bit but completely sound. So I assume an abscess is brewing and call my farrier, who is coming tonight. But this morning I go out and he is 3 legged and all but refusing to put weight on his RF leg. He has lower swelling in the RF, digital pulse and heat in the hoof. So abscess too? Does that happen? He is still resting his RH, more so now than before. Should I be calling my vet instead of the farrier? Or is it possible to have an abscess in both???
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Member:
mariean
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 8:03 am:
My horse had abscesses in both rears earlier this spring, one was deeper, and much harder to open, so it is possible.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 8:52 pm:
My farrier came tonight and we have 2 abscesses! What are the chances of that! Crazy!!! Both were REALLY deep and he couldn't dig deep enough to get them to drain, but you could see the path and they both bled. He said to keep soaking and wrap (I use a green Epsom poultice) and they should drain.
Does that sound right or should I get my vet out?
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 9:07 pm:
Oh boy.
I would be skeptical about this and most certainly would have my Vet come out.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:13 pm:
Two abscesses is definitely possible--the conditions that cause one are the same conditions for the other three feet. Probably no reason a horse couldn't have one in each hoof! Don't know where Dr. O's been today, but I would be calling my vet at this point.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:33 pm:
It's definitely 2 abscesses and they are deep. He flew through the roof with the hoof testers. You can see the trail to the abscess but it's too deep to par out. Last time Moose had and abscess (they only other time), which was the same time last year, they dug it out but it was really deep then too and it didn't drain well. It ended up up coming out of his coronet band about a week later. I am guessing this is going to be the same. But is waiting ok?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 10:52 pm:
Hank had 3 abscesses in one hoof a few years back, vet dug out one, one blew out his heel bulb, and one popped out the coronet band. He didn't come completely sound for about 6 weeks or better after that. He never had one before or since. The solar abscess was too deep for the vet to get also, he tried but just got blood.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 11:00 pm:
Melissa, the longer you wait, the longer the horse has pain and the potential is greater for more damage to the internal hoof structures. When an abscess is properly pared out and bandaged (per Dr. O's article on abscesses) the horse has almost instant relief and the internal structures are no longer compromised and can begin to heal. The only two valid reasons not to have the vet out are lack of a competent vet and the cost. And I do consider those both valid reasons given circumstances individual to each situation.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 7:30 am:
When you have multiple abscesses often there is are predisposing causes. The article on abscesses outlines these under the "Causes" subtopic and by understanding these may help you prevent further abscesses. Be sure to follow the link to the Thrush article as your post suggests small focal areas of thrush are your problem.
DrO
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 9:18 am:
Thank you Dr O. I did read the thrush article. It was very informative and I guess I never realized it was the cause. I had a huge thrush problem with all of my horses all winter because it was so wet here. I clean my horses feet daily and treated the thrush aggressively all winter. I never got it under control. It finally got dry and was for quite some time and it seemed to finally be under control and recently with all the rain the thrush started right back. I never knew it could cause an abscess! My horses have free access to their stalls and pasture and the barn is always dry, but they do not spend alot of time in there. I am not sure how to completely get rid of this nasty stuff.
I did use thrush buster but then switched to an aerosol thrush x which is copper. I did read the formaldehyde kind is better but what product has that?
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New Member:
ccequine
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 2:43 pm:
Hi folks, an abscess in hooves is not such an awful event. It is the natural way of your horses body to rid itself of toxins. Sometime it will happen due to diet changes or because the horse ate something that disagreed with them while on the trails or in the pasture. Don't forget horses can't regergitate or throw up, so the body has to digest and dispose of everything that is swallowed and toxins are excreated either by perspiring or through the feet, thats is part of the reason why making sure your horses have good hoof mechanisim is so important. It helps with proper blood flow through out it's body as well as helps to flush toxins out of the body.Abscesses of the feet are a good thing even though it may be painfull while it develops and passes, movement of the horse is very important to help flush it out, just keep it light. As the horse steps down the hoof wall expands as he lifts his foot the hoof contracts, thus acting like a pump. Movement movement movement is key to passing an abscess as fast and painlessly as possible.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 3:19 pm:
Welcome Lisa, and thanks for your interesting take on abscesses. However, I find it pretty speculative and I think I'll stick with the science and research and Dr. O's article. I would never force movement on a horse that doesn't even want to bear weight on a foot with an abscess. I'll be interested in what Dr. Oglesby has to say. This should be interesting!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 5:43 pm:
While I believe movement is helpful in resolving an abscess (if the vet can't get it) I believe letting the horse move at will, not forced is the way to go. Some say to give a gram of bute to make them comfortable enough to move around to help.
It's funny I had a mare once that came up lame in LF (this kind of reminds me of Flash HMMMM) anyway I had the vet out(different vet then current one) and he said she bowed her tendon. So I locked her up, wrapped her leg and there she stood lame in her pen, but not horribly, just a limp here and there. Enough time had passed that the vet said she could have a little turn out. (so this was going on a LONG time) I moved the other horses so they wouldn't bother her and she limped out in the pasture and started grazing. I had asked hubby to mow the High spots in that pasture she was in and he decided to do it then. She was quiet and used to such machinery. When he went in with the tractor and brush hog, she spooked, jumped straight in the air and ran a little ways.. YUP she popped an abscess right out the coronary band, The jumping and running must have pushed it out. She was 100% sound the next day. Wasn't a bowed tendon!
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Member:
mariean
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 5:48 pm:
Last month, when I was dealing with my horse's abcesses, a friend sent me a story-I can't find the link-about a horse with hoof problems-it was from a Strasser trained trimmer. It detailed a year long "rehabilitation" of a horse caused, according to the article, to bad shoeing. The article detailed a "recovery" that included multiple abcesses. The implication of the story was similar to Lisa's post-that the abcesses were the horses way of getting rid of dead tissue. Keeping the horse moving was also stressed in the article.
I am not in any way endorsing this theory (especially the idea that toxin's are filtered through the foot0-but it seems to be out there , and I too would be curious to read Dr. O's take on it.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 7:12 pm:
Well I tend to look at things from variety of perspectives and since I have personally seen horses filter infections from their bodies through their hooves, I tend to agree with Lisa. In fact you can just about read a horses hoof and tell when changes have happened, whether feed, fever, infection etc and the condition of a horses foot can tell things about the health of the horse.
That said, unless you absolutely know for sure that your horses problem is an abscess and not a broken bone, suspensory or a tendon problem moving him/her is a no no.
However, I think sometime we forget that horses are horses and not people and for a horse movement is very necessary. I am not saying take them out and force them to more than what they are capable of doing at that moment, but I do think we tend to coddle them way too much and they can take more pain then we give them credit for. We do not want them to suffer, but by not allowing them to be horses we sometime do more damage than good. Or even if we don't do damage, it takes them longer to recover than if we just left them alone. I know this is probably an unpopular view, but I have seen horses make remarkable recoveries from some very bad injuries (hoof and otherwise) with proper care and daily light exercise.
Rachelle
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Member:
mariean
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Posted on Friday, May 28, 2010 - 9:31 pm:
Good points regarding light exercise. i do think, however, that the fact that a changes in nutrition, conditions, etc, can be reflected in hoof/horn growth is different than the notion that horses naturally eliminate toxins through their feet.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 9:30 am:
Melissa I believe Thrush buster and Dura sole contain formalin. I had good success with the thrusbuster on Hank, after I dug out the focal infection in the WL I dumped thrush buster on it and it worked well, maybe digging out the thrush first helped.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2010 - 9:53 am:
Welcome LisaL,
I hate to start our relationship with a negative response but saying a abscess of the foot is a good thing is like saying a abscessed tooth is a good thing. These are not caused by toxins but caused by bacterial infection and the source of the infection is usually the hoof's environment. We discuss ways this occurs in the Abscess article I reference above.
DrO
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 8:37 am:
Well Friday evening when I went out to unwrap, soak and re-wrap Moose's feet, both abscesses had drained! By yesterday morning he was completely sound and back to normal. He's still wrapped because he has two large deep holes in his hoof but it looks like the infection is all cleared up. Although you know when abscesses drain they go back to normal, I cannot explain the relief and joy it gives me to see him comfortable again! I have to tell you that Epsom Poultice is the greatest stuff! Its clean, easy to use and works so well!!!
Diane- I went and got thrushbuster! It was always my favorite but the thrushX aerosol was so easy to use!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 11:37 am:
Excellent news, Melissa.
Thanks for this up-date.
Is the poultice that you used a ready-made one, and if so what is the brand name?
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 1:29 pm:
Vicki, the one I have is by Durvet, called Epsom Salt Poultice. It a green gel goop with the salts in it. It's super clean and smells minty. My old farrier in FL swore by it. I first used it last year when Moose got an abscess that wouldn't drain, 8 days in I used it and the next day it drained. This was after using several other products (Ichthammol , a tar sole pack, sugar-dine, etc). There is also a brand called Kaeco Epsom Salts Poultice which they sell at jeffersequine.com, same stuff. I recommend everyone keeping it on hand. You do have to keep it in a temp controlled environment in the winter, because if it freezes it's useless.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 2:28 pm:
Thanks, Melissa.
I am going to purchase some to keep on hand.
Maybe that way I'll get lucky and not have a need for it!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2010 - 2:45 pm:
I have to second the epsom salt poultice, I use it for Flashes tendon, while I have tried just about all of them this one seems to give her more relief. Great on abscesses. I believe straight arrow is the brand mine is. Her bowed tendon is soaking in it right now
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 8:23 am:
Let's be clear, it is not the nature of the medication you use that makes the horse comfortable but getting a hole in the sole that drains the puss efficiently. Choices of medications may play a small role in promoting drainage and killing bacteria but it is a small role. Note you do not use formalin based products on sensitive (pink tissue with nerves) just the areas of the horn invaded by thrush. See the article on this.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 12:16 pm:
Thanks, Dr. O.
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