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  Discussion on 9 y.o.SWB dressage gelding with possible hock issues.
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New Member:
rwranch2

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 11:44 am:

My 9 y.o. swedish WB gelding has been doing tremendously well in training and we have moved up to 2nd Level this year. We have done very well at 2nd level.

In the last few weeks it has been harder to get the trot lengthenings as we had and the collected canter work causes some moaning. He also has been having more incidence of back stiffness.

So after a great show two weeks ago and an great ride with a clinician the next weekend... my boy comes up lame. One of the vets from MS-State U looked at him Friday and said he thinks it's right hock, so we are going to MSU on Tue for a full workup.

Is 9 years old a "common" age to start seeing hock issues?

What is the current rehab protocol after hock injections?

I'm trying to plan ahead for stall rest as he can be quite a handful when he is stalled for consecutive days. Last time he was on stall rest was as 4 months old! He's been joyfully sound these 9 years.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 1:40 pm:

I have a horse who cane up lame and was diagnosed with DJD in his hocks.

He was somewhat older than 10 when he began showing symptoms. Maybe about 12.

He had his hocks and one fetlock injected and was then put on Adequan. I was told to give the horse a few days off after the joint injections but stalling him was not necessary. He was turned out and could come and go from the barn at will. The veterinarians seem to have varying opinions on how many days should be give off but I've never heard of more than 3 or 4 days being prescribed. Some don't seem to think that long is necessary.

My boy has done wonderfully ever since. Maintaining regular exercise levels is helpful for the condition.

I never had a problem with the trot lengthenings though, as a result of the problem, though a very slow, collected canter was challenging at times.

As always, be sure to check your saddle fit carefully.

A symptom for my horse has been more difficulty with backing up, with him also unloading from the trailer very slowly and stepping out onto the ground with a wide base to his hind legs.

My daughter jumps competitively and her horses have varying levels of arthritis (and accompanying back pain) in different joints. Her Veterinary leg specialist is a huge proponent of using Adequan injections every four days now and then (and prior to shows) followed by maintenance dosages.

They also get their joints injected on an as-needed basis.

I don't know what kind of methods that you are using with your dressage riding, but some types of bits, rider hands with extreme neck carriage can create terrific back difficulties.

My horse is now 19 and does wonderfully. He can now collect and maintain any speed of canter in a very nice, smooth way. His various trots are great too.

Good luck with your horse.
New Member:
rwranch2

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 3:17 pm:

I've not noticed a problem with the trailer as I have a step-up slant and he is able to walk out head first instead of backing out.

Training-wise he is in the same bit (loose ring french link) that he's been in for years. The saddle is adjusted regularly. He has a low-neck conformation so back tightness can be an issue anyway- we do a lot of long, low stretching and encourage him to lower the base of his neck, otherwise he gets very tight. He is super athletic with that big elastic trot and HUGE canter - my event-riding friends DrOol over it : )

What med(s) did your guy get in his hock/fetlock injections?

Do you use any oral supplements?

He is out 24/7 at home.
New Member:
rioh

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 3:25 pm:

Hi Adrian,
I'm a new member to HA and joined because my 13yr old APHA trail horse came up lame the end of January. Some days he could not walk and some days he would be fine (very frustrating) and I wanted all the information I could get. I raised this gelding and have had horses for along time and never had any lameness issues. After a full lameness work up at a wonderful clinic he was diagnosed with DJD in his hocks and maybe his hip. I was given several options for treatment and I decided to go with weekly IV Legend (3 total) and weekly Adequan IM (4 total) then once a month Adequan IM to maintain along with giving him the supplement Recovery EQ Extra strength. I also had his back adjusted once a week ( 3 total) as his back was very sore. I never kept him stalled after treatments. He could come and go as he pleased. It has been about 7 weeks now since we first started his treatment and he is much improved. I decided I wanted to hold off on hock injections and try the treatment that I did. I would never have thought that a 13yr old that has not been rode hard and has always had the best of everything would have arthritis, but after reading all the info on HA it is amazing at the ages it can strike its ugly head. It has not been a cheap adventure by any means, but if I can keep him comfortable and get some more quality time with my camping buddy then it will be worth it. I wish you and your horse the best of luck and hope all turns out well. It sounds like he is a great gelding and you two are quite a team. Best wishes to you both and keep us updated on how he is.
New Member:
rwranch2

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 3:45 pm:

Hey Dee Dee,

I've been on and of HA over the years - there's a post on here somewhere from when I bred my mare to get the gelding we are talking about - I wanted info on coat color genetics : )

So my gelding and I have been together since he was a straw that arrived in the mail!

Boomer was started and had a very light start to his work life - I lost my job, moved and so forth. So he wasn't pushed as a youngster.

I've known event horses that had IV Legend before shows, but haven't heard of the regimen you listed. Wow - I can imagine that's not cheap! Glad your guy is doing better.

Is he shod behind?

My guy is only shod in front and ironically my trainer and I have been thinking I should shoe him behind now that he's doing more collected work. With this issue now I'm wondering if that would be a good idea to give him more support.
New Member:
rioh

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 5:14 pm:

Adrian,
My "ReDrOck" APHA is a solid sorrel!! So, my "color" breeding program went south LOL!!!But he makes up for it in personality, I would not want him any other way! I was hoping for a western stock type horse maybe around 14-15 hands and easy to get on (both parents fit the bill) and got a solid paint that looks like the horse on the Adequan box and around 16.1 or so! He has shoes on all 4. I have the best farrier in the world. ReDrOck was going on 10yrs old before I started putting shoes on him. Where we rode most of the time he did not need shoes, but we went to a couple of new places and decided I should and have kept them on ever since except for the winter. He seems to be much more comfortable with the shoes on. I don't know if shoes on the back would help or not. I would ask your farrier, your vet, trainer and get other opinions off HA. I have a friend who does dressage with her horses and some are shod and some are not. I'm not sure why tho. All of hers came in straws too! She has a mare that I believe has DJD in a hock and she did one injection IA as her vet recommended, but I don't think there has been alot of improvement tho. I think the mare is still off, but not lame like ReDrOck was and I'm not sure what was in the injection probably a steroid and ? I think as in people they are all different.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 7:16 pm:

The hock and fetlock injection contained some kind of steroid.

He was diagnosed first from flexion tests but then confirmed through X-rays.

Upon insertion of the needles for the injection, the synovial fluid was seen to be plentiful but very thin and watery. The Vet thought that the injection would help the synovial fluid to improve by reducing the inflammation.

I do keep all of my horses on Corta Flx and for my oldest horse who has the worst arthritis problems but is mostly retired, I keep him on a loading dose. He's also a big boy. He just needs that extra amount. Any time I have withdrawn this product the horse has worsened after 8 days or so. He is doing better than ever now after getting shoes removed, under-run heels taken down, etc. by a good natural-type of farrier.

The horse that I ride who has the DJD and is now on once monthy Adequan is on only a maintenance dose of the Corta Flx.

All of my horses are kept barefoot. I have tried various types of shoeing over the years and the horses move better barefoot.

I believe in avoiding shoes as much as possible and with my main riding horse whenever he has had to have them for some reason he is always over-joyed when they are pulled and goes out into the pasture and celebrates.

He moves like a dream in spite of having gone through the DJD problem.

As I said, the main thing that I notice is that it is more difficult for him to back up. Prior to the problem he could do this task easily and rapidly.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 8:32 pm:

Hi Adrian,

As far as what is in the injection. That depends.

These days most horses are injected with a combination of Hylauronic acid, steroids and antibiotics. Hylauronic acid has healing properties and when that was all that was used to inject, part of the reason horses got a lot of days off was because as it was working it tended to cause inflammation in the joints injected( because it was working).People got nervous, so vets started injecting with steroids(kept the inflammation to a minimum) and antibiotics (to try and avoid infections in the joints).

Steroids do have their place, but when overused as the only ingredient in the injection, joints get worse not better over the long term.

As a racehorse trainer I used to be on the merry- go-round of injections every six weeks, but it bothered me to do it because of the danger of infection. Also the cost became prohibitive and the injections tend to have to be done more frequently the more one injects. So I stopped.

I started using alternative therapies, changed my shoeing program (went barefoot and nailless) increased my turnout, and put all my horses on OCD pellets. For the past 4 1/2 years I have rarely injected a horse and at one point I had thirteen horses in various stages of training!

As far as having to stall you horse, the most important time is right after he is injected. It is more to keep the injection site clean then for anything else.

When I used to inject, horses were trained in the morning, cooled out and injected in the afternoon, left inside(stalled) overnight and then turned out(no work) the next day mid morning. They either got a second day off, or were worked very light for a day or so and then they resumed their normal jogging/training/racing schedule.

I hope this helps and Welcome to HA.
Rachelle
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 9:23 pm:

Thanks, Rachelle -- great information explained very clearly.

I think Lance's hock and fetlock injections may also have had some HA along with the steroid.

I hauled him to a practice that has a hospital facility and they treat a lot of race horses and jumpers and were very experienced with the procedure.

After having it done once I've never had to have it again and my Vet prefers not doing it unless it is very much indicated by the horse not going well, because as you said, there is always some risk of infection that could cause a worsening of the arthritis.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 9:24 pm:

Adrian,

I forgot to welcome you to HA.

I hope that you will find this resource as helpful as I have.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 7:19 am:

Welcome Adrian,
Many horses that train and perform intensively in an arena develop joint issues before 10 years of age. As others above have indicated there are different regimens for the different forms of arthritis, the different treatments used, and for different joints. Even if this turns out to be the hock it is composed of 4 joints. So this question will have to wait for a diagnosis and treatment plan.
DrO
New Member:
rwranch2

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - 7:50 am:

Boomer got looked at and had both hocks injected with Depo-MeDrOl. The right hock had quite alot of changes, the left was much cleaner.

Also discovered an extremely slight lameness RF - the films showed "normal arthritic changes, a little lipping" in the pastern. Vet said I should consider injecting the joint at some point in the future.

She also likes the monthly Adequan routine and Adequan before a big show. She thinks it has better anti-inflammatory properties than Legend.

I have the films and will try to post them soon.

Thanks for everyone's help - the films are really good and interesting to look at esp the RH - lipping is really clear.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - 5:16 pm:

Hope that Boomer will do well, Adrian. Let us know how it goes.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jul 29, 2010 - 5:25 pm:

A recent piece of research that we recently added to the Adequan topic supports your veterinarians ideas. You can read more about the various treatments in the overview article on Arthritis and it has links to specific articles on the treatments. Concerning the lipping in the fetlock this should not alone be used as a diagnosis as such radiographic changes occur in non-painful joints. Before specific therapy I would consider a block above and below the effected pastern to further support the localization. You will find more on radiographic interpretation at HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » The Interpretation of Radiographs.
DrO
New Member:
rwranch2

Posted on Friday, Jul 30, 2010 - 8:31 am:

Dr O - thanks for the reply. I'll look at the Adequan article.

We did block the foot, then the distal (?) seasemoid area at which point he was 80% better (in vet's opinion). The rads showed some lipping on the pastern, not the fetlock.

I've never had anyone think he was off in front - she was quite obsessed with it.

The vet students didn't see anything. finally I just told her I didn't see anything either.

On grass / sand she didn't notice anything until we did umpteen million trots/circles on concrete.

Maybe her eye is just that good, but IMHO - if you jog a horse on concrete for long enough and repeatedly the same day you will eventually get some degree of lameness.

Anyway, I'm hoping the Adequan will help with anything going on in there (and with the hocks as well).
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 30, 2010 - 6:10 pm:

A good way to approach such a problem is to get the veterinarian to describe the change in gait that leads to the conclusion of lameness. If you still cannot see it try video taping. Be sure to tape the horse trotting both directions and while going directly away and directly toward you. A tripod is essential to keep the camera still. If still nothing, nothing it probably is.
DrO
Member:
rwranch2

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 10:22 am:

Dr O - wow! what a great idea! I guess I've never thought about video-taping a lameness exam! I'll bring it - if there's a next time : )
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