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  Discussion on Article on EMS and ECD
Author Message
Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 27, 2010 - 2:40 pm:

Dr. O,

Have you seen this article and what do you think of the findings? if you have already discussed this in HA, please direct me to the discussion.

Thanks,

Nancy

https://www.vet.cornell.edu/labs/place/docs/2009Walshetal.pdf
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 27, 2010 - 5:40 pm:

I had not seen the article nancy and yes I think this is both an excellent review of the current knowledge of how EMS and ECD increase the chances of founder and the new information on a correlation between insulin resistance and the chance of foundering supports everything we have learned since the referenced Jeffcott paper in 1986. Most important is the emphasis on weight control and how it is the main determinate of whether horses will founder or not. It is a point we have been preaching since the 80's.

Check out the article that this discussion area belongs to. You will find these new conclusions as suppositions and propositions in the article.
DrO
Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 27, 2010 - 7:00 pm:

I thought the article was very good and that it came to similar conclusions as your discussions here with ECD and EMS.

But I have a few things that I'd like to have clarified to make sure that I have read the article correctly and have come to the correct conclusions.


1. ACTH is then basically immaterial for determining risk of founder, despite some various internet "fervor" about ACTH. (some internet groups feel that ACTH can predict laminitis.)

2. Insulin resistance can essentially be eliminated by weight loss using good diet and exercise, at least to a substantial degree, as long as the diet/exercise is followed closely and the horse maintains a lean BCS.

3. Thyroid supplementation may indeed help normal fat horses obtain weight loss, thus reducing their insulin resistance, and therefore their risk of founder/laminitis. What about Cushing's horses that are not overweight?

4. Pergoglide does not help with IR, but helps with other Cushing's symptoms like polydipsea/polyurea. Pergoglide does not help reduce the incidence of laminitis.


There is so much information (on the internet, alas) that is basically the opposite of the conclusions here, and it has frustrated me. I believed that HA had it "right", and I am happy that this article supports that weight gain/loss affect founder, not some strange hormone and the fallacy of putting a horse on a dry lot and thinking that will solve the problem if the horse remain obese.

Thanks,

nancy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - 7:42 am:

Nancy,
All of these questions are dealt with in the articles on these diseases, sometimes in great detail. Briefly:
1) No, since blood ACTH can be predictive of ECD and ECD raises the chance a horse will founder there is "some" correlation at least within the limitations described in our ECD article.
2) Not eliminated but reduced remarkably in some cases of EMS.
3) Yes, see the EMS article for more on this. I see no reason for thyroid supplementation in any underweight horse.
4) No, see the article on ECD.
DrO
Member:
gwenyth

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 12:33 pm:

Dr. O, thanks for your reply.

I wanted to be sure that I had understood the Cornell article correctly, since I have read the HA articles previously about ECD/EMS and I thought there were some differences in ECD conclusions (between the article and HA), but I was mistaken.

Thanks for clearing it up for me. I appreciate so much the fact that you keep updating your articles on a regular basis.

Thanks,

Nancy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 1, 2010 - 9:36 am:

The most recent update in our articles that brought it into line with the Cornell article was last year the inclusion of recent research that shows that L-Thyroxin supplementation was found to be a useful tool in the over conditioned horse, even though he is not truly hypothyroid.

This ran counter to my many years of experience with Thyro-L when I first started practicing. I had very poor luck using it to help with weight control and found dietary adjustments essential whether I used thyroxin supplementation or not. I just did not see where the powders helped. This along with the new research at that time that adult horses really do not get hypothyroidism further supported my thoughts. I still don't find a place for it in my practice as I am still having success by controlling forage quality but if I ran into such a case this recent research suggests I might try it again.
DrO
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