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  Discussion on Fever, lameness, high-fribrinogen level, off feed, weight-loss
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New Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Friday, Jul 30, 2010 - 4:13 pm:

My 8 year old Qtr.gelding got sick about 3 weeks ago, off feed, low-grade fever, very lame in front, lethargy. Had lameness exam, blocks, flexions and really couldnt identify where pain coming from. No heat or swelling. Did bute/rest for week and he bounced back. Couple weeks later he started running high fever, lame again, off feed, very lethargic. Vet did CBC and his Fibrinogen was high, over 800, normal is 300. No cough, drainage. He's being treated with injectible anti-biotics, not sure what called but just two shots. He seems to feel much better just 12 hours after first dose. Note, the pen he's living in had a horse diagnosed with Pigeon Fever a year or two ago. Is it possible this horse could have internal abscesses?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 30, 2010 - 6:22 pm:

Welcome obie,
While possible it is unlikely from the information you provide. Usually horses that develop internal abscesses do so as a complication of a external abscess and a 3 weeks course of disease is not quite long enough to pull that trigger in my opinion. Of course if your vet feels different you should follow his advice.

Be sure to run a full course of the antibiotic this go round, continuing treatment for a full 3 days after the horse returns to normal. If signs of infection return reconsider the possibility and if you and your veterinarian decide it is likely begin treatment and monitor fibrinogen and don't stop till the fibrinogen returns to normal. For more on antibiotic choice and prognosis see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Pigeon Fever, Dryland Strangles, & Distemper.
DrO
New Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 8:06 am:

His fever was back up to 105.9 last night. He got the antibiotic injection Thursday, seemed to bounce back some and now he's very sick. I cold-hosed, gave him banamine and it DrOpped a degree. My vet thinks the infection is in his lung although no cough or drainage, never has been. He lives in a stable of 40 horses and none of the other horses are sick with the same symtoms. I feel like this horse is dying.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 9:09 am:

Obie sorry about your horse I know Potomac horse fever is on the rampage around these parts and your symptoms match somewhat. What kind of antibiotic is your horse getting. How are his guts sounds and bowel movements?

Hope he feels better soon, it's so scary when they are so sick, my mare had PHF years ago I just thought I'd throw that out if it was a possibility.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 10:37 am:

Hope that your horse will improve and get well, Obie.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 10:45 am:

I feel for you; there's nothing worse than having a really sick horse and not knowing why it's sick or how to treat it. I've had two different horses that had Pigeion Fever and neither of them had high fevers or seemed nearly as ill as your horse.

You mention the antibiotic injection, is he on continued antibiotics? Sound to me like he should be if he isn't. My vet will often give and injection and then have me follow up with oral antibiotics, or with injections I give every day.

Does the vet have any ideas? Does "in his lungs" mean he thinks it's pneumonia? Is there a rattle in his lungs? Is his nose snotty? Any symptoms other than the bloodwork and fever? Any swelling in his joints? You say no other horses are sick with the same symptoms; are any of them sick with other symptoms? Often the same disease can manifest in different ways. Have you kept this guy up on his shots? Are their mosquitos in the area? ticks? Just trying to help you think of possibilities and asking questions like I'd ask myself. You've probably asked yourself all this already. Sure wish you luck. If you can keep him eating and drinking and pooping, in my experience he'll probably make it.

Good luck.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 12:02 pm:

Hello Obie1dog,
Wish you joined HA on a happier note. It does sound like your horse is very sick.

I'd like to relate a story about a filly I had 30+ years ago. She had symptoms very similar to your horse, very high temperatures and was treated with anti-biotics, bute and banamine. We went round and round with the getting better and then getting worse until I finally had enough. The other thing was even when she seemed to be allright, her temperature was never what I considered really normal. It ran anywhere from 100 deg to 101 deg.

After we had been through the good and bad cycles for a while and not able to completely get rid of whatever it was she had. The vet said it was all right to turn her out as long as she did not run around. Needless to say, of course she did and when I finally got her rounded up and back in the barn, her temperature had spiked to 105+, when it did not go down after a few hours, I decided to treat her the way my mom treated me when I had a high fever.

I got two muck baskets and filled them with icewater. I made an icewater alcohol bath. I stood her in the bathstall in the two icy muckbaskets continually and every 15 minutes to 1/2 hour I bathed her with the icewater and alcohol and hosed her. I hung a hay bag and made sure that she has regular clean water to drink. I stayed with her for almost 12 hours, occasionally letting her out of the ice tubs. Her fever broke after about 8 hours of this treatment. She did not get any other treatment to take her temp down.

I felt I had nothing left to lose and that she was going to die anyway. I finally let her out of the tubs, when it appeared the fever was gradually reducing on its own. By the next morning she was fine and her temperature was below 100 degrees for the first time in a very long time. She had no ill effects from either the fever or the icewater and alcohol and her temps remained normal.

Years later, when I was discussing what happened with her with one of my vets, he said that the reason the anti-biotics did not work is that what my mare most likely had was a virus, and antibiotics do not cure viruses. Her high temperature was what most likely killed the virus and letting her battle this, although painful for me to watch was probably what saved her life, because she broke the fever herself and the virus ran its course. Would she have survived, had I not done what I did, I don't know, but rather than stand around and watch her die, I proactively did something that I thought would help.

I know you are doing everything humanely possible to help your horse, but I know how frustrating it can be when you don't really know whats wrong.

I wish you good luck during this difficult time.
Rachelle
New Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 - 4:18 pm:

Thanks everyone for your responses. We are in Colorado and I havent heard of any horses getting PHF here. He is current on shots, vaccinations. I dont remember the name of the antibiotic but I remember her saying its new. She "loaded" him with a shot on Thursday and the last shot will be given on Monday. His temp this morning was 104.9, he did show a little more interest in eating green grass today.

rtrotter - thank you for sharing your story hopefully Luke has the same outcome as your mare and maybe this is just a bad virus.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 1, 2010 - 9:24 am:

Generally horses with internal abscesses tend to run lower fevers than your horse has currently, at least until they rupture. Diphasic fever that high is more consistent with viral diseases. It almost is as if your horse has had two different illnesses. Has he come into contact with a lot of new horses in the past month?
DrO
New Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Sunday, Aug 1, 2010 - 10:07 am:

Yes he went to a show on the 3rd of July and the next day is when this process began. He lives outside in a paddock with ajoining paddock and shares a waterer with another horse. This horse has not gotten sick. In the past when a viral disease comes into our barn in has spread like wild-fire. Yesterday he maintained a temp at or above 104 and in the evening it DrOpped to under 103 and he seemed brighter. The vet is coming out tomorrow to give second dose of anitbiotics and check on him. Can you give me some suggestions of questions to ask to help identify what's going on? I have included a picture of his chest that I took yesterday that almost appears larger on right side? chest picture
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 2010 - 3:19 pm:

Obie, just ask for a good thorough examination. If internal abscesses are still a concern a abdominal tap and cytology might be revealing. You might ask him if there is something he can give for the fever. Once daily low dose flunixin is usually helpful.
DrO
New Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2010 - 11:52 am:

Monday blood work showed slightly higher (worse) fibrinogen and white cell count. He appears to be feeling much better since Monday. Eating better, fever DrOpping although slightly elevated off and on. My vet thinks that this was a virus that developed into a slight infection in lung. The rf still has some soreness but not nearly as bad as a month ago. Vet says to let him rest another 2 weeks and re-evaluate the rf.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2010 - 1:41 pm:

This sounds like he is improving, except for the blood work. Viruses are miserable to deal with; so often they just have to run their course; all you can do is treat symptoms and prevent a bacterial infection from taking advantage of the horse's comprimised immune system.

I hope he continues to improve.
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Friday, Aug 13, 2010 - 3:47 pm:

Got back to riding Luke the other night and he looks and feels sound although very out of shape and weak. His temp returned to normal about 2 weeks ago and his appetite has definitely returned. I'm beginning to wonder if this horse had a mild case of West Nile even though had been vaccinated. No other horses in the barn got sick and the gelding that shares waterer with him didnt either. I asked my vet and she said it was a possiblity although she would have expected more neurological signs. While I was hand-walking him I did notice a dead bird over a month ago. He also was very unsteady and even fell once while grazing. When he was in the cross-ties he would sort of park-out behind. He has lost alot of muscle tone and weight but seems to be on the mend.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Aug 13, 2010 - 4:18 pm:

I'm glad he is doing better. More than once I've had a sick horse without the vet being able to pinpoint what it had. Especially when symptoms are pretty non-specific it's really hard to figure out sometimes.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Aug 13, 2010 - 5:09 pm:

Glad that Luke is doing better.

Some horses with West Nile have rather mild symptoms.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Aug 14, 2010 - 7:41 am:

I see many flu like diseases that have histories similar to the one you outline above Obie. Without neuro signs of serological proof I see no reason from your post to label this WNV.
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Thursday, Sep 2, 2010 - 10:06 pm:

I have been back riding Luke for about 3 weeks now but this past week he started feeling rather sluggish. I took his temp and it was 102 in the evening. Went back the next morning and it was normal 99. He's not eating all his hay again although he certainly doesnt seem as depressed as a month ago. Tonight his temp was 104ish. He is eating his hay but not like he would normally, he still meets me at the gate and is interested in his grain. There is a virus going around the barn with slight temps 102ish and filling in their hind ankles. Luke doesnt have any filling. Could this be a relapse of the previous virus or a new one. I've never had him be sick like this before.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 6, 2010 - 10:46 pm:

Either is possible obie, but most likely a new infection, since there is a new one in the barn. But if your horse had not fully recovered from the previous infection the exercise could predispose to a secondary bacterial infection.
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Sunday, Nov 21, 2010 - 10:07 am:

So the RF lameness has re-appeared in a drastic way, barn manager and trainer would give it a 5 out of 5. This is the 4th time since beginning of July he has gone very lame on the RF. I have just finished resting him for a few weeks and started working him a week and a half ago. Again no heat or swelling. If he is still this lame in another couple days I guess I will call the vet again to take a look. My trainer thought maybe it was something with his coffin bone. What could be causing a sudden-onset drastic lameness that goes away and comes back so sudden Dr. O?
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Sunday, Nov 21, 2010 - 5:49 pm:

I went out today and he was much more uncomfortable, holding foot out and not wanting to move. The vet came out and he had a slight temp 102, non-reactive to hoof-testers, flexing palpitation, no heat, no swelling but drastically lame on RF. She pulled blood and gave him inter-muscular antibiotics. She mentioned the possiblity of internal abscesses. She is going to call tomorrow after blood results and talking with the internal specialist at clinic.
Member:
frances

Posted on Monday, Nov 22, 2010 - 4:22 am:

So sorry to hear of this downturn, Obie.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Nov 22, 2010 - 1:06 pm:

Sorry to hear that things have worsened and hope it turns around for the better soon, Obie.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 23, 2010 - 1:35 pm:

Obie if fever remains part of the picture then recurring infection seems very likely.
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 23, 2010 - 9:45 pm:

Blood work came back showing Fibrinogen 500's, white count high side of normal, globulins (?) high, suggests he's fighting infection again. Tonight I went out to give him Banamine and his temp is 103.6 and not too interested in his grain. He's going to the clinic on Friday to ultra-sound for abscesses and draw blood for titres (?) test. I know their is a combination of antibiotics that are more effective for internal abscesses than the Exceed he is on. Why wouldnt we start with those?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 24, 2010 - 6:31 pm:

If there are abscesses then therapy centers around locating the abscess and surgical drainage. As to the antibiotic question this needs to be directed to your veterinarian.
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2010 - 8:03 pm:

Vet ultrsounded shoulder, chest, lungs, nothing found. He remarked about some comets on bottom of lung wall indicating thickening. Said it might have been due to pnuemonia in last few months. He is now sound again after being on anti-biotics for several days and fever is gone. Took blood samples and is sending out for titres testing. I'll get that back later this week. Vet is still stumped about the fever, lameness, he said there is a slight chance an abscess might be sitting behind scapula but not likely. Hmmmm, all this money and we still dont know what's wrong. Maybe the blood titres will reveal something.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 - 4:27 pm:

Glad to hear that clinically things are looking up.
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 7, 2010 - 2:07 pm:

The titers test came back negative for both pigeon fever and strangles.. was sort of expecting that. So it appears that the lameness and the fever are not related. Our vet suggested he do work-up again when he goes lame to identify where the pain is. I'm not likely to go that route again since we tried that in July. So frustrating.... the good news is he's sound and fever free for now. I still wonder about his blood work showing the high globulins, fibrinogen and white count and what could cause that. Does a mild laminitis ever present like this? this most recent bout started after he had gone to a friends house and was on pasture for four days and came home ..... hmmm.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 8, 2010 - 8:18 am:

Infection and possibly cancer can cause those types of changes in the lab values obie. Founder would have blocked out in the feet (see your first post).
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2011 - 3:59 pm:

Dr. O I wanted to update you on my gelding Luke. I took him to CSU and after many diagnostics they discovered he had ingested wires. Most likely from his tire feeder. CSU has suggested he be euthanized as his chances of recovering are less than 5% due to the length of disease. Very heartbreaking. We are going to donate him to the school for them to learn and they will do an autopsy on him that they will share with me.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2011 - 6:11 pm:

Sorry to hear of this sad outcome.

Thank you for sharing this up date so that others may benefit from having the information.

What an unexpected diagnosis.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2011 - 8:26 pm:

My condolences Obie. Perhaps this can help someone else, how was the wire ingestion diagnosed?
DrO
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2011 - 9:16 pm:

They were unable to find anything on ultrasound of belly but decided to do belly tap where they found "bad" cells. The Dr. mentioned that on very rare occasions they have found foreign objects in their bellys such as wire from tire feeders. They encouraged me to do one last diagnostic, a belly x ray. That's were they found the two wires in the large intestine about 1.5 to 2 inches in length. They think they are attached. So preventable never let horses eat from tire feeders
Member:
lilo

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2011 - 10:03 pm:

So sorry to hear about your gelding, Obie. It is still so common to see tire feeders in pastures.

My sincere condolences,
Lilo
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Feb 27, 2011 - 8:39 am:

I am so sorry to hear that the outcome wasn't positive Obie.

I still have 2 tire feeders in my pasture which I WILL REMOVE after reading about your sad but preventable outcome. My horses no longer eat out of them, I never see them chew on them either, but they used to actually pick them up a bit and move them years ago. Unfortunately I will have to wait for the ground to thaw to get them out of there.
Member:
hpyhaulr

Posted on Sunday, Feb 27, 2011 - 9:41 am:

so sorry about your gelding Obie.
Now I know why Walt took my tires out of the turn out.
Member:
canter

Posted on Sunday, Feb 27, 2011 - 12:24 pm:

Very sorry to hear of your loss, Obie. My condolences~

Fran
Member:
frances

Posted on Sunday, Feb 27, 2011 - 1:19 pm:

How sad and frustrating Obie. I'm so sorry for you both.
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Monday, Feb 28, 2011 - 8:42 am:

Thank you all for your kind words
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, Feb 28, 2011 - 3:45 pm:

So sorry to hear about your Obie.
Member:
justy

Posted on Monday, Feb 28, 2011 - 11:51 pm:

I am so very sorry to learn of the loss of your sweet boy, Luke

You persevered a long time to try to figure out why he could not regain his full health and I am so sorry that the answer resulted in needing to lose him in the end.

You have my deepest condolences.

Debra

I read that he would go off his feed when the fevers would get high, but did he ever present with colic symptoms since this all started?
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 7:38 am:

Today is the day Luke is being taken
to CSU for donation. This is one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make in my life. I have to believe these Dr's know better than I and this is what's best for him. Say a prayer for him tday my heart aches I will miss my "cow pony" forever
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 11:37 am:

Thinking of you and Luke today.

So sorry for your loss.
Member:
patricia

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 2:18 pm:

So sorry for your loss. Often the best thing for them is the most painful for us.
Member:
npo33901

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 4:16 pm:

My deepest , deepest condolences.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 6:23 pm:

i am so sorry. It's a brave thing you and your daughter are doing and it will help other horses and their owner and vets in the future.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 9:07 pm:

What a sad day! I feel for you - this must be so very hard, and yet you know it is for the best. We are lucky in Colorado to have CSU and their excellent veterinary department and you are brave to donate him to CSU.
My condolences,
Lilo
Member:
paul303

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2011 - 9:48 pm:

It's such a piercing sadness fraught with questions and heartache. Two of mine held the promise of greater understanding of certain conditions. There is no greater purpose for the empty shell your good friend shed. Allow his memories to lift your heart and nourish your soul, for that is what our horses are meant to do...
Member:
obie1dog

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2011 - 9:21 pm:

Debra yes he had several mild colics during this. I wanted to share that the Dr. from CSU called about the autopsy and told me Luke had extensive damage in his belly. Some of the things that I remember him saying are that his secum and colon had adhered to wall, wire had pierced the spleen, heart sack was inflamed and also adhered to diaphragm. Bacteria was leeking. He asked the surgeon if they would have continued and she said no. He assured me it was the right decision for him. He asked that I send them a picture of the tire feeder and that they were going to issue a warning to get the word out of the dangers of feeding from them. RIP my "cow pony"
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2011 - 10:08 pm:

can u post a picture of your tire feeder here as well ..I feed my horses in them... if we have a side that is 'pulling' we use a torch to seal it.. this spring we will start to replace them...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them spots..
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2011 - 11:42 pm:

I'd like to mention that tires aren't the only thing that cause problems. My vet warned me about those rubber pans a lot of people use to feed grain. Horses tend to chew on the bottoms trying to get the last taste of the "good stuff." As the pan becomes worn hard threads will start to appear and soon stick up. These can be very dangerous. I've switched to hard plastic pans.
Member:
canter

Posted on Thursday, Mar 3, 2011 - 7:23 am:

Sara, thanks for the warning r.e. the rubber pans. I had no idea. I'm going to mention it to the barn owner and am going to replace the one I have for feeding at shows with plastic. The barn usually pulls up the pans after feeding, but not always. Think I will take a good look at them.

Obie, your sad loss may well have saved a few other horses. I hope that brings a bit of comfort to you.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Thursday, Mar 3, 2011 - 9:47 am:

Now you know definitely that you made the right decision for your "cow pony". May the good memories and time help you heal.
Lilo
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