This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Gastric Ulcers » Gastric Ulcers in Adult Horses »
  Discussion on Puzzling behavior linked to Ulcer or something else?
Author Message
New Member:
farish

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 11, 2010 - 2:03 am:

I have an 11 year old Breedstock Paint Gelding. We have been struggling with and treating for and ulcer. This first started about 3 months ago with his coat turning dull and a loss of weight. He then began to DrOp and try to pee repeatedly at a show, then in lessons and in his stall. This horse has never DrOpped in a show and only peed in his stall, so this behavior was strange for him. The Vet took blood, urine, ultrasounds etc. thinking we were dealing with a bladder stone. No stone was present, sheath cleaned, no bean, no UTI,But he was anemic. So we began Gastro Guard full tube once a day, alfalfa 2x's daily and before a ride, HeMax for anemia. after 2 weeks on the Gastro Guard we were to decrease to 1/4 a tube a day. We have tried 3 's to decrease the Gastro Guard and every time he starts back up with the DrOpping and peeing again. Meanwhile - with some research online we found a study showing that garlic and onion tops can cause Anemia in horses which made sense since I had started Dreamer on this supplement to help with fly/bugs (which did work). So we took him off the garlic, and are back on 1 full tube a day. Even the Vet said that Dreamer's symptoms are not typical (the DrOpping and peeing repeatedly) of what they see in horses with ulcer. My questions are: Have you seen a horse with these symptoms before? If yes, what was the diagnosis? Are there any other alternatives long term for him that are less expensive then $40 a day for the rest of his life? His teeth have been floated, he eats grain,Rice Bran, Very high quality Eastern grass hay and now alfalfa per Vet orders. He also has 2 oz of HeMax per day
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 11, 2010 - 7:11 am:

Hi Jammie,

Welcome to HA! I'd like to address a few points about garlic. The studies done on garlic to date utilize pounds of garlic over a very short period of time( a few days) and that is what led to the anemia. There are no studies that I know of that use the very small amounts of garlic recommended by most products over the longer term. I personally have used garlic continuously for many years and not had any ill effects from it, in fact my horses stay healthier and for the most part fly free. I have had more problems dealing with fly sprays than garlic. If you are concerned about the garlic causing the anemia, have your vet do a blood smear specifically looking for spiculated red blood cells.

As far as the ulcers and gastrogard. If your horse is indeed suffering from ulcers, the recommended treatment is a tube a day for a month and then, backing down to 1/2 and then 1/4 of a tube. By not giving him the full month of treatment, the ulcers will not completely heal and will return as soon as he comes off the gastrogard. The best way to find out if he does have ulcers is to scope his stomach. That way you will know for sure.

Again, welcome to HA
Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 11, 2010 - 9:20 am:

Welcome Jennifer,
Currently there is no work to suggest supplementing garlic at commonly available concentrations will hurt or benefit a horse though it could potentiate the toxicity of green onion consumption. We have reports on these boards of not seeing any difference in the fly problem with the use of garlic and neither have I seen a difference in barns that use it. Horseadvice.com does not recommend it's use for at this time.

I agree with Rachelle that a scoping of the stomach is indicated to rule in or out the presence of gastric ulcers and if a problem then a program like that outlined in the article should be followed.

As to frequent urination this is a symptom that can have many causes and you can read about them and the ways to diagnose them at HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Urinary System » Excessive Drinking and Urination, Polydipsia / Polyuria (PD/PU).
DrO
Member:
cometrdr

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 11, 2010 - 11:30 am:

I am good for my two cents - so here it is again regarding the garlic for flies - I started the Garlic this spring and by fly season was on full consumption for my two horses. I did not see any releif from the flies due to the garlic. the only way i found to help was fly masks and spray. so I am discontinuing the use of the garlic For Guido and Luigi. if they need a fix I'll make em some Garlic Bread! lol
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 11, 2010 - 12:29 pm:

Wonder if he drinks more water to try to relieve the ulcer symptoms when he is receiving less GastroGard. That would cause more peeing.

Sounds to me like me may benefit from a longer term of full-strength GastroGuard.

It seems to me that I read most horses need at least 8 weeks of the full dose to completely heal the problem.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Friday, Aug 13, 2010 - 12:48 am:

I have one mare with ulcer problems. She apparently came to me with ulcers...she was described as being "girthy and touchy about her sides". Within 8 months of owning her, she became extremely acute. At the clinic, she was scoped ( it wasn't too expensive - what WAS expensive, was 3 days of testing for everything else "because they didn't want to put her through a scopeing"). When she came home, she was on one full month of GastroGuard, then 14 days of half a dose and finally a quarter of a dose for 14 days more. She cleared up completely.

Over the past 5yrs., she's had to go through the Gastroguard two more times. Once, because she was on bute for a leg problem....now, if we need bute or banamine, we also give Ulcerguard. The next time was this year when we tried to slim her down. Instead of keeping access to hay available all day, we fed her a restricted diet AM and PM. Now we feed small portions throughout the day. Both times, after the Gastroguard routine, she cleared up.

You probably need the full Gastroguard treatment to clear it up. If the full treatment course clears it, then you shouldn't need to keep him on it forever. You should be able to just treat when there is a flare up.

Management plays a role after the ulcers clear up. They seem to do much better when there is something to nibble on most of the time. And when you're medicating them with anything that could affect the stomach and digestive system, use the Ulcerguard.

Now, that said, the best thing to do is to scope him and KNOW that it's an ulcer that you need to treat....if it's NOT an ulcer, then you need to get busy figuring out what it is...before it gets any worse.

One other thing....when my mare was acute, before she went down, she kept taking a spreading stance with her tail up...as if she wanted to urinate.

And finally, I suppose that there is a possibility that there could be some kind of bleeding in an ulcerated area, that could have something to do with anemia.

There is a good chance, that scopeing him could SAVE you money. Lots of luck, hope you have a good outcome.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Aug 13, 2010 - 5:06 pm:

Good information Lee.

Thanks for sharing.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC