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  Discussion on Stomach ulcers in 19 year old mare?
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Member:
lindas

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 - 10:09 pm:

Hello Dr. O,
My daughter's 19 year old Paint mare has had repeated low grade colics in the evening while eating her grain, 3-4 times during the past two weeks. She stays outside all day in a pasture with one other horse, and comes in at night. We feed a very small amount Legends Show and Pleasure pellet feed twice a day, with hay at night while stalled. Leaving them out all the time is not an option because they never stop eating and both of them were getting way too fat. In the past few days we switched from a poor quality orchardgrass that none of the horses wanted to eat to a good quality brome hay, given at night. She is not in training, my busy teenage daughter only gets to ride her lightly a couple of times a week. She has put on weight this summer as the pastures have been very lush. Each time she colics it starts while she is eating her pelleted grain, she stops eating and lies down in her stall. Then she gets up and paws the ground, and her lower lip quivers and she looks distracted. Tonight she "parked out" like a gaited horse in her stall and kept her tail up as though she wanted to urinate. The only other thing in her history was when she first did this two weeks ago I had recently wormed with moxidectin 4 days earlier, she did it 2 or 3 nights in a row (the third night the symptoms were so subtle I may have imagined them). I ran a CBC, Profile, and fibrinogen on her through Antech. Only abnormality was a GGTP of 50. Then she did it again tonight, again lying down in her stall in the middle of her grain. My daughter rode her for about 30 minutes, a light workout, yesterday. I have not been able to get my large animal DVM out here yet,as he has been out of town, but I am going to get a hold of him tomorrow and have him come out and give her a good physical.
Does this sound like it could be ulcers? She doesn't really fit the profile or history as far as I can tell, but the symptoms are very suspicious. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. One idea I had was could she be eating acorns or weeds in the pasture. Yes we have both oak trees and some weeds, but lots of good grass is out there too, and while hand grazing her I have noticed she always avoids the weeds. I have not seen her hanging out eating under the oak trees either, although I could be missing it because I am often at work. Thanks so much!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 - 10:30 pm:

Hi Linda, I was reading through your question and it sounded very familiar to one of my horses, especially since it happens at feed time and with pellets. Is it possible this is a slight choke, my horse acted just like that, matter of fact I finally called the vet because I thought he was colicing all the time after/while eating.

Have you tried soaking the pellets for awhile to mush, that is what I do now and haven't had the problem since.

Just a thought
Member:
paul303

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 1:58 am:

I can only tell you about my own experience with my QH appendix mare. She had showed Western Pleasure up to QH Congress level. She retired from that and had 3 foals. I aquired her when she was eleven. At that time, she showed signs of "girthiness" and objected to being touched on her sides, anywhere behind the girth area. Other than that, she was a sweet, obedient well-trained lady.

After a while, she became more touchy. She also exhibited mild colic-like symptoms. The only difference was that instead of rolling and thrashing violently, as in colic, she would sink slowly and tentatively to the ground and lay on her chest. She would look at her side, and grunt quietly. She would leave her feed ( she was eating every time this occurred ) and breath quick shallow breaths. Her nose and mouth would be pinched. Banamine would bring relief...that was gone as soon as it wore off. These episodes began to increase in number over a year and a half. She was tubed, examined internally and sonogramed. Bloodwork was within normal limits. Fecals were done. No answers. Finally, she refused to eat, had another attack, and the vet said, "No more fooling around", and we took her right to the clinic.

Now, my horses have open stalls ( with fans and automatic waterers )that lead to a barn paddock, then a woodlot pasture, then to grass pasture with a huge water trough changed a few times weekly. They are free to roam and eat 24/7. They have NO stress and enjoy each other's company. They do gentle arena work and low key trail rides. Neither my vet nor the clinic thought ulcers were involved. The clinic was reluctant to put her through a scoping unless it was absolutely necessary. After three days on an IV ( still not eating )and a barrage of tests, they gave up and scoped her. Results: Her stomach was "riddled with ulcers", both upper and lower sections. She came home the next day, once the clinic was sure that she was eating. She had Gastroguard and adjunctive stomach therapies. She recovered extremely fast.

The girthiness and protective behaviour with her sides was gone. Four years have passed, and she has had only two relapses: once during a bout with lameness when we gave her bute ( we never give any meds anymore without Ulgerguard or Gastroguard ), and just last year, when we cut back feed, hay and grazing for weight control. A course of Gastroguard treated it easily.

My point is; we all wasted a lot of time speculating that it COULDN'T be ulcers due to her environment. If I had it to do over, I'd go for the scoping sooner rather than later. The scoping wasn't that expensive...the extra days that she spent in the hospital before the scoping was decided upon cost WAAAY more and caused her incredible stress and pain.

I learned that ANY horse can have ulcers, and it's probably better to rule them out sooner rather than later when you're dealing with a colic-like puzzling symptoms.
Member:
lindas

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 6:00 am:

Very interesting...this mare has always been girthy. We attributed it to her strong personality. She is one of those that is obedient, sweet, and very well behaved while being handled and ridden, but does not hesitate to tell you when she does not like something. In the stall she is the queen of ugly faces, very stall protective, yet she does not physically attack.
It doesn't act like choke, although I condidered it. She has never done this before. Her teeth were recently floated and checked in good condition.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 7:08 pm:

Hello DrS,
I too first thought of a transient choke as a possible explanation but if the discomfort goes on for more than a few minutes and there is no salivary reflux it is unlikely. I can picture discomfort as possible yet fluid passing by...just conjecturing out loud.

Focusing on the acute onset and the moxidectin gives me a thought. What if you had a large number of migrating bot larvae that were killed and now you have inflammation. There are problems with this scenerio not the least of which is I have never heard of such an occurrence. Also the first stages of the larvae, which is what I think the migrating larvae are, are thought to be resistant to moxidectin. Perhaps a large dose and and a incomplete understanding of the larval stage might account for the possibility.

Acorns can certainly irritate the gi tract...

It sounds like you are looking at a upper gi problem but it is not clear what the cause is and a good endoscopic exam of esophagus, stomach, and duodenum will go a long way toward clarifying the problem. Otherwise empirical equine omeprazole and the suggestion of making a mash of the pellets are imperfect ways to begin exploring possible causes.
DrO
Member:
lindas

Posted on Thursday, Sep 23, 2010 - 6:03 am:

Thanks Dr. O,
After talking my vet last night I've decided to take her to a specialty clinic about an hour away. He is a general large animal practitioner and does not have a scope. He suggested those new fecal occult blood tests but said I would have to take her stool to the other clinic to have it checked. If I'm driving down there I may as well take the horse with me! She may have been having signs since last summer although more subtile. (stretching a lot, very grumpy) I haven't seen any bot eggs on any of my horses this summer, but that is a possibility too. I can take her on Tuesday so if they have an appointment open I'm going to take her then...she is the love of my daughter's life and I want to make sure we figure it out ASAP in case its something serious. Will keep you posted.--Linda
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