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Discussion on Please help with pony
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New Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 2:35 pm:
Hi DrO its me leslie
My pony(age9) is having some issues. She is not fat ( confirmed by vet) but does have a huge cresty neck. Ive had her since May of this year. People I got her from said she was UTD on shots, but IDK forsure. She has not been off property since I got her.
She had a bout of laminitus last week..had vet out...mild, no rotation, put on bute and he gave her some dmso intravenously. Vet said "we could do blood test for ems but also could keep her off pasture and see how she does" so I chose to keep her off pasture.
She is doing very well regarding the laminitus.
3 days ago her throatlatch swellled up huge, so I call vet, he comes out thinks its somekind of virus...lungs sound clear...we put her on uniprim and also trihist and keep up with the 1gram a day bute..no cough and no runny nose.
yesterday the swelling was down a little (can now feel swollen lymp nodes )but she is now breathing a little hard...prob around 50-60 breaths per minute...nostril flaring a bit. She is alert and grumpy. Has diarrhea
Today ~alert, breathing fast and shallow (50-60) BUT now DrOoling.
it has been close to 90 degrees all week. she has started to get her winter coat. She has been staying in the shade in the barn.
Ive got a call into my vet but wanted to get your take.
She is on grass hay...which she has hardly eaten, and there is a tiny bit of grass/weeds in her paddock.
So worried about her.
Thank you
leslie
ps Hi girls...missed ya!!!
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New Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 3:22 pm:
my vet is on his way out to take another look at her.
xxleslie
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New Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 3:49 pm:
OMG~ they cant get blood.jugular or other side
after atleast 10 attempts
gumms are red. and weird
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New Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 4:10 pm:
k vet just left...no blood. Jugulars have collapsed.
dont know...perhaps snake bite or spider bite. We have had an infestation of brown recluse this year.
he painted her neck with dmso furacin. gave 5cc ventipulim.
he says only reason why she is alive is because of the 3rd vein/artery thing.
I am so sad.
prognosis: guarded. he doesnt know what else to do.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 4:30 pm:
Leslie, I am very sorry to hear about your pony's troubles. Is the vet certain this is a spider or snake bite?
It sounds as if he's not sure and if that is so, I would be very tempted to get a second opinion, if at all possible.
I hope you get some answers that lead to a fully recovered pony!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 4:37 pm:
So sorry Leslie! Here's hoping for a good recovery. Ponies are hardy little beasts; I think they recover more readily than horses most of the time.
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 4:51 pm:
Leslie,
I was thinking along the same lines as Fran....maybe second opinion? Sending positive thoughts to Mary P.
Kathy
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New Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 5:25 pm:
So when she had her laminitus...she had ok juglars...I know this becuase vet gave her a IV dmso treatment. about 3 or 4 days lter her throat swelled. which probably caused the jugulars to collapse. were hoping that the swelling will go down and they will reopen...but they may not.
what caused the swelling at the throat latch. dont know.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 5:40 pm:
Did he suggest anything to help with swelling? Ice packs? cold hosing? cool gel? Is she breathing o.k.? Has there been any change today in vitals from what you posted earlier? Is she alert? Drinking? I would sure try to keep her cool and comfortable. If her neck is swollen, maybe it is hindering her ability to swallow food. Did the vet mention anything about watching what she eats untill the swelling goes down? Or if the throat is swollen inside?
A blood test would answer if this was a virus or infection I would think.
so sorry. I hope she's better soon.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 5:42 pm:
Welcome back Leslie,
Sorry to here about your pony but surely other treatments have been prescribed: How about systemic antibiotics, antiinflammatories, and even possibly even diuretics if nothing else decreases the swelling? I would consider flunixin, penicillin, gentamycin IM as a starter in the rump or thigh and someone really aggressive might sub dex for the flunixin even with the recent history of laminitis. The probable impingement on the airways making breathing difficult sounds potentially life threatening. Do all you can to make the pony comfortable and do not stress her and do not let her hang her head low as this will exacerbate the swelling remarkably.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 6:09 pm:
Dr.O. could the IV DMSO in the jugular cause something like this, kind of like an allergic reaction? Leslie hope pony gets well soon.
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 7:06 pm:
Diane, I was wondering the same thing...but was leaning more towards a reaction to the DMSO if any of it leaked from the IV site. Back years ago, the drug used IV to treat dogs for heartworms caused moderate to severe swelling if any of it leaked from the vein during the process.
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 2010 - 7:25 pm:
Thanks! its good to be back I missed you guys!
POny is on daily
uniprim ( for the last 2 days)
tri hist( 2 days)
1gram bute(has been for 10 days now)
today he gave her a shot of steriod and some other stuff (ventipulim) and dmso/furacin neck sweat type stuff....Im am unsure as to what all he gave her ~I had to drive down to the bus stop to pick up my kids during vets exam.
The swelling has gone down since the 1st treatment (2 days ago) but...it has not gone away completely, infact she is still swollen between her jaws up by her throat latch. but I can now feel her jaw line ...her lypmh nodes are swollen ...mostly on the right side.
She has been keeping her head in a normal position...atleast from what I have seen.
She is bright/alert. Pretty much mad at the world right now. I did see her drink water. Her manure is getting better.
He is going to call tomorrow to check on her...I will ask what all she was given.
Thanks for such a quick reply!
and the prayers for mary P.
leslie
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 23, 2010 - 10:07 am:
Leslie - best wishes for a speedy recovery for your pony! Lilo
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2010 - 4:13 pm:
Extravasation (injection in the tissues surrounding the vein) of a concentrated enough DMSO solution could certainly cause a local phlebitis / cellulitis but the history above suggest this started not around the injection site but in the submandibular area which does not sound like IV injection complication. Perhaps if both veins were involved and the submandibular swelling primarily fluid that could not return through the jugulars.. also the time frame seems a little long between injection but the times given are a little vague. While I cannot rule it out it does not seem likely.
DrO
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2010 - 5:54 pm:
There was a seperation of time between the laminitus IV and the swelling...I think around 3 days...I am not sure because that's when I *noticed* the swelling. She has a thick double mane that is very long and covers the area.
*Update:
her breathing has gotten better. the swelling has gone down.
I went to give her medicine this morning...1st dose, fine...when I went to give the bute she swung her head back...got a very bad dizzy spell(?) and flipped over and landed on her neck. It was awful...I couldnt get her up. I was sure she had broken her neck. She lay there, on her head, not moving...she whinnyed softly a couple of timesw. I went to get a rope and by the time I got back she was able to flip over and get her head out from under her body. she did not stand up but sat there breathing hard with her eyes closed...I thought I was going to have her PTS...I sat there with her and talked to her, cried. And lo and behold...after about 10 minutes she got up!!!!
she is a tough little chick!
I called my vet...he said she probably is having dizzy spells due to allt he blood...he said it could take a few weeks to get that other artery to compensate.
I have to keep her calm enough in the next few weeks...as she is starting to feel better she is starting to want to fight all the medication. She is sick of people trying to shove tubes in her mouth...poor thing.
tonight, she is doing very well as far as breathing...she drank more water (thank goodness) and ate a little bit of hay. gums are still ruddy.
Now if I could just keep calm and relax...
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 - 7:59 am:
You poor thing - how awful. So glad she righted herself - her neck's alright I take it?
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 - 6:49 pm:
Hi
We made it thru another day...
lesliexx
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 - 8:33 pm:
on a wing and a prayer.
{{{HUGS}}}
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 - 10:47 pm:
Leslie,
I don't have any advice, but wanted to send best wishes to you and your pony. She does sound like a tough little gal! Hang in there!
Jo Ann
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 1:17 pm:
Thanks girls I keep telling Mary P. that alot of people are praying for her
DrO...she has developed diarrhea...I am not sure how to describe it...shooting or explosive diarrhea. It is brown, liquid and comes out with force or gas. There were two different places in her stall today and then I saw her have gas and a little bit of diarrhea shot out.
I had just given her the uniprim and bute...came in and read your article about antibiotic colitis....I have a call into my vet.
Her gums are not ruddy anymore(they were very ruddy last week) she is drinking 3/4 + of a bucket of water a day. She is alert....maybe a tiny bit quiet. She is eating. Her gut sounds are loud. She doesn't seem colicky. Her breathing is almost normal. She does have some sounds of inflammation in her nose.. overall I was pleased with her recovery ...until this diarrhea.
her stools have been fairly loose since this whole thing started...but now it is explosive.
she is still on
uniprim
tri hist
bute
dmso/furacin
ventipulim
she has been on bute for 2 weeks
and the other stuff for a week
I am hoping this isnt colitis
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 5:03 pm:
DrO my vet clinic called me back...my regular vet is on vacation but did consult with one of the other vets in the clinic.
He is giving me some BioSponge. He wants me to stop the bute...but wants me to continue the uniprim, trihist, clenbuterol and dmso.furacin.
Her diarrhea is definalty infrequent~ she had those 2 pipe stream last night and then a little bit when she farted this afternoon. I havent seen her pass anything else.
Thanks
leslie
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 5:15 pm:
Leslie what are her vitals like? Have you checked her for a fever? Heart rate/pulse normal??
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 6:05 pm:
Leslie, I would feel much better if a vet would come out and see your horse. As DianE's request suggest your best home evaluation for how serious this is would be assessing vital signs, for more see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » First Aid » Taking Temperature, Pulse, and Respiration.
DrO
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 11:52 am:
Thinking of you and your pony Leslie, and hoping for improvement.
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 6, 2010 - 7:40 pm:
Hi Update:
My vet has been out to see mary P. 5 times. Last time on friday the 1st. her vitals all normal, we charcoaled her and got the diarrhea under control YAY. We also stopped all medication except the neck sweat.
Sunday~ laminitus flare up. Vet has me put her back on 1 gram bute. She seems to be tolerating it well. She is bright, eating well and drinking.
Today:
I went to bute her and notice this a swollen tongue and also palate (near front teeth):
here is a link to a youtube video I took of it
which shows it better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKvF-7pD_3M&feature=youtube_gdata
I will be calling my vet tomorrow, but was wondering ~any thoughts?
I havent had her scoped. I am keeping quality of life in mind. So far she is doing ok. One day at a time.
thanks for letting me post her saga
leslie
lesliex
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 6, 2010 - 10:06 pm:
hmmmm, is this called Lampas? i was trying to figure out and came across : lamapas is a congestion of blood vessels in the palate.
of course this morning I was in a hurry and instead of hanging her hay in the net, I flip a water trough and put the hay on top of it...of course she had knocked all the off to the ground and ate it from the floor.
I remember you DrO saying to keep her head up (for congestion reasons)...geez I feel horrible.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 7, 2010 - 7:38 am:
Hi Leslie, In your video you said that is the side you put the bute in, wonder if it could be caused by the bute? I know my mare will get a swollen tongue if I have her on it for too long of a period...like 3 days! It's funny she would have a laminitis flare unless it isn't "under control" yet.
It looked like she had a cresty neck in your video so it is possible she could have EMS. I was able to make Sam comfortable and remove the bute by putting him in easy boot RX's with pads they are worth their weight in gold for the sore hooved pony I thought I would be tempted to remove the bute (if your vet ok's it) and see if the swelling goes away.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 7, 2010 - 8:04 am:
Hello leslie,
I am not sure exactly what I am looking at. If the pony were holding his mouth open slightly it would normally look a bit like your image and video. Many horses have a palate that lies a bit below the incisors and visible as yours does in the picture. It is the tongue that gives be a hard time...is the horse forced to hold the mouth open or is that just his response when you fool with his mouth? I see the L side does seem a bit wider than the R. If the tongue is swollen, trauma is the first possibility and a careful exam the first step to figuring out what is wrong.
DrO
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 7, 2010 - 11:09 am:
thanks D and DrO.
It is definately swollen. not from how she is holding it. I havent checked it today yet...will wait to do that later, as I try to not bug her too much and keep her calm as possible. She is bright and happy this morning.
we have considered IR, thyroid...ems... when we went to take blood, there was none to be had. So we are going blindly in the dark. treating symptoms.
Dont know what caused this 2nd bout of laminitus...she had been off bute for a week when we had this last flare up. she is stalled and only on last years grass hay. I suppose it could be the hay ....considering putting her on TC lite. (dont know if that 'safe, lite' feed is really safe or lite though :/ )
so I had planned on stopping the bute for a few days today...see where we stand with the feet...and will see how the mouth swelling goes.
thanks ans many blessing to you
lesliexx
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 7, 2010 - 8:41 pm:
Oh Leslie! So sorry to hear MPoppins is still not out of the woods yet!
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