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| Discussion on Potomac and more in a senior pony with PPID/IR | |
| Author | Message |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Monday, Nov 1, 2010 - 9:54 pm: Hello,I have posted before about my elderly pony, mostly with diarrhea, weight loss problems but now we have something completely different. I could really use another opinion as to what is going on with her. Dakotah is 28 years old and her cushings has been well managed until recently with Chaste Tree Berry and restricted NSC diet) She is on 1 gm pergolide paste/day (switched from Chaste Tree Berry powder approx. 3 weeks prior) On Oct 20, Dakotah was seen in her paddock with her butt leaning into the corner of the fencing. She stayed this way for a while and then slowly walked over to her hay and started eating without a lot of enthusiasm. Very odd, but I thought I'd see how she was the next day. On Oct 21, she was in her paddock and was extremely reluctant to walk and non weight bearing on her left hind. The vet came out and they finally got her in the barn, did a neuro exam, blocked her - with 0% improvement. There was no obvious sign of trauma, no heat, swelling, neg to hoof testers etc. She was found to be sore in the hip and pelvic region with shuffling gait and slightly ataxic behind. She also had a very high fever of 105.4, lungs were good, slight increased pulse in both front feet with no heat. Gums pink and moist. They put in a catheter and administered IV Ketophin as well as fluids and DMSO. Temp went down to 105, and then was given Dipyrone. She also passed cow pattie manure. 45 minutes later temp was 102. The vet moved her to quarantine in case we were dealing with something contagious. After bloodwork, the two possible causes for the fever were Potomac or an internal abscess. She received 3 days of the 5L fluids and DMSO, dipyrone, methocarbamol, gabapentin and previcox. The blood work showed toxic neutrophils and the vet was pretty sure it was potomac but the Oxytet would cover an abscess too. She got 11 ml of Oxytet in a bag of fluids twice daily. She had a fever for a few days, but not as high and it was controlled well with the Dipyrone. She developed some heat and pulses in her front feet, so molded pads were put on to help protect against laminitis from fever. She also had very little appetite. The pain in her back end continued with her leaning her butt on the stall wall for support. Her hind legs were tucked under her and her flanks were sucked in. She finally laid down after several days of standing and could not get back up. She tried at least 10 times, sometimes almost getting there, then falling into the wall. She finally did make it though. She really responded to the oxytet and on day 3, really made a turn around. She was standing on all four feet squarly, walking around the stall, and her appetite was much better. I called the vet and asked if we could hand walk her for a few minutes given her new mobility. The walk was great, and she moved with nice normal steps. Vet came out and gave the all clear to go back to the main barn and continue with her meds including the oxytet. The next day (OCT 28)I took her out of her stall to walk her. We slowly walked in the indoor arena twice around and went back to the stall. I gave her meds and left. When I returned for the pm, I took her out of her stall and she was non weight bearing on the right hind. The left hind was the one with the problem originally. Her fetlock was swollen with heat. Polticed and wrapped. Vet came out the next day and did the blocks and US and xrays. US results: There is moderate effusion of the digital tendon sheath with hypoechoic,homogeneous fluid. The tendon itself appears normal. Xrays were normal. At this point, Dakotah was bright, eating and pretty happy except for that foot. It was day 7 of oxytet and she had no fever for 3 or 4 days. The catheter was removed and she was started on Doxycyline 35 tabs BID. We were to sweat wrap the leg/fetlock with dmso at night for 10 days. Wrap was to come off in the am. Ice twice daily. Today, November 1. I went out to the barn in the morning to give her meds, take off the wrap etc. Her temp was 103.5. We gave her 15 ml of Dipyrone, and the fever slowly went down to 101.9 by 5 pm. She was really miserable looking today with her head down and not eating. By 5 pm, she looked brighter and was eating a little bit. The vet is coming out tomorrow and may put the catheter back in to switch back to oxytet. I apologize for this lengthy description. I feel my vet has done an excellent job so far, but it really is perplexing why Dakotah would respond so well and then get a fever again. Also,the lameness really isn't addressed by Potomac Fever. I thought if she originally had an abscess in the lower abdomen, it would have explained the lameness by crippling pain. The lameness and fever seemed to vanish together with the oxytet. My vet is sending a lymes titer also to rule that out. I guess it's possible the fetlock could have be sprained during our little walk, but how else can there be a sudden 3 legged lameness? I have blood test results if you would like to see them. thank you for any ideas you may have. Jackie} |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 7:41 am: I forgot to say that the Potomac titer came back <800. My vet consulted with others and agreed that this is suggestive of active Potomac infection. A titer for Lyme's disease was sent, results are pending. |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 4:51 pm: This morning, Nov 2, Dakotah's temp was 103.5, she parked her behind into the corner of the stall again, she wasn't eating, she had a running left eye and some discharge from both her nostrils. She also tried to eat a few pieces of apple but just kept chewing without swallowing. I took her to the equine hospital and they have her on fluids and oxytet. Her WBC was over 18,000 and she also had a high nutriphil count. Fibrinogen is pending. Her symptoms look exactly like day 1 and my feeling is the potomac titer may be from a recent vaccination and she has an abscess which got the upper hand again when the oral doxy was started. |
| Member: mrose |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 5:17 pm: So sorry about Dakotah's new problems. I hope the vets are able to get her feeling better soon. |
| Member: scooter |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 5:57 pm: Jackie sorry about your pony, hope the vets can figure it out. I see you live in Il.? Isn't it kind of late in the year for PF around here? I don't know if WNV presents like this, but I do know it is prevalent around here in Oct. ( I live in NW Il.)My gelding Sam was similar like this last year, I didn't have his blood work run until later, I think he was toxic from something he ate. I don't think he ran a fever either, but not sure. Sending good thoughts for Dakotah. |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 6:55 pm: Hello Jackie,You certainly present a diagnostic dilemma. If we try to incorporate all the lamenesses into one cause it sounds like founder and it is effecting the back feet as well as the front. She tries to get off the fronts but then the back start to hurt badly enough to become non weight bearing. PHF has founder as a frequent complication but that usually occurs later in the disease than you describe above. Is this a common disease this time of the year in your area? We could be seeing two diseases superimposed on each other. Viral diseases usually have fevers that high and can have diphasic patterns and would be not responsive to antibiotics. Perhaps the virus is enough to tip a PPID horse over into a full founder. However you don't normally have toxic neutrophils with a virus. An abscess somewhere...perhaps a belly tap with fibrinogen and cytology might help with the diagnosis of internal abdominal abscesses. If the abscess were in the leg I would certainly expect swelling and heat somewhere and it should not shift around. Remarkable founder with rotation can give you bilateral abscesses where the toe pushes on the sole. DrO |
| Member: canter |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 8:18 pm: Sorry to hear about your pony, Jackie. I hope the vets can get a solid diagnosis and start whatever treatment will get her back to her old self. Best wishes for her recovery. |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 2, 2010 - 9:38 pm: Thanks for all the thoughts. Dakotah's fever is down to the normal range and she is eating a little hay at the hospital. They did an ultrasound of her pelvic area, rectally, and found no apparent abscesses or fractures. I know that doesn't mean there aren't any, just that they didn't see any.I'm not sure if PHF is common in our area, but I can find out from the vet. We had a VERY warm October, and she did go for a few trail rides, maybe even drank from the creek. I guess its possible. I thought they vaccinated her for Potomac this fall, but I don't see it on any of my invoices other than in 2008. I will check into this tomorrow. As far as WNV, I think vet ruled it out because of her blood work and positive initial reaction to antibiotics. They also looked in her mouth and took xrays to rule out a sinusitis or tooth problem. All seemed ok. Dr. O, I don't know about founder, her hooves have been cool for the most part, with negative reaction to hoof testers. It is something my vet is concerned about as a development of this prolonged fever. I forgot to mention that she does have a line of edema just in front of her udders that is about 12 inches in length. Could there be fluid in her abdomen without any apparent swelling? I will ask about drawing fluid and testing it. She has had some problems in the past including an enlarged lymph node in between the mandibles. We biopsied it and it came back as reactive lymph node. Her throat latch area looks larger to me now and will ask about it tomorrow. Today they were really focusing on the fever and pain. I know cancer is relatively rare in horses but I just feel that the wheels are really starting to fall off and wondering if there is a systemic weakening that has caused her to become so sick with infection. Thanks again for all the good wishes, thoughts and ideas. We will see what tomorrow brings.. I will keep you updated. Jackie |
| Member: canter |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 3, 2010 - 7:12 am: Jackie, in regards to PF, I don't know where in IL you live, so don't know how close you are to me. But I know from my vet that here in SW MI, my vets saw a lot of PF this summer and last year. He said more than usual. His guess for the upswing in cases (and severe cases) was a combination of a terrible bug season and people cutting back on vaccinations. Totally unscientific and unsubstantiated but I think the bug season lasted longer than usual around here due to a wonderfully warm Sept and Oct. Great for us, miserable for the horses. So I guess PF is still potentially a possibility, despite the late season. |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 3, 2010 - 11:25 am: I spoke to the vet this am and they want to do a thoracic ultrasound. I asked them to investigate the line of fluid under her belly and the enlarged throatlatch area.The report this am was that overnight Dakotah had another fever, 102.5, a slight increase in WBC, Total bilirubin is down slightly, doesn't have much appetite, but looks a little brighter. The Elisa test for Lymes came back in the grey zone, not conclusive. Waiting on Western Blot. I am going to visit her this morning and see if I can get her to eat something. |
| Member: lilo |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 3, 2010 - 3:15 pm: I just want to send good wishes to you and Dakotah. Hopefully she can get a diagnosis and then some treatment that gets to the cause of this illness.All the best, Lilo |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 3, 2010 - 6:00 pm: thanks Lilo, I hope so too. Here's what's newI asked about PHF in this area and it is not very common. Western Blot came back negative for Lyme's. Fever was normal at 11 pm (was treated overnight and this am for fever 102.5) US of thorax, throatlatch, and line of edema came up negative. What I thought was edema is just loose skin. She is so thin and sucked up in the flanks that the skin is hanging under there. Vet talked to internal medicine specialist at Wisconsin and he recommended switching antibiotics from oxytet to chloramphenical and something else that I've forgotten the name of. He's had much success with abscesses and this combo of drugs. So we will give it a try. From what I understand, if there is no response to these antibiotics, it's unlikely to be an abscess. I think that leaves us with cancer somewhere. What do you think Dr. O? Dakotah looked more comfortable in the back end, but not to any great degree. She wasn't leaning on the wall like she was yesterday. What was so disturbing to me today was that she would go to her water or food and look like she really wanted it, but didn't eat it. She put her mouth in the water and swished around about 5 or 6 times until she finally had a long drink. She didn't drink much water even though she swallowed about 20 times. She put her nose in the grain bucket and swished around her hay with her lips but didn't eat anything. She also has terrible breath today, but she hasn't eaten much in the past 24 hours. I wonder if scoping her eosophagus and stomach would provide some answers. She is very tired and weak and I don't think she's layed down to rest in several days. Here are the blood test results from 11/02 (first value)and this morning 1/03 (second value - run in hospital and no neutophils?) CBC WBC 19 , 18.9 (5.5-12.5)10*3/uL HIGH RBC 8.6 , 6.98 (6.5-10.5) 10*3/uL HGB 14.8 , 12.1 (11.0-19.0) 10*3/uL HCT 41% , 32.6% (35-52) MCV 47, 47(34-58) fL MCH 17.3 , 17.3 (12.3-19.7) pg MCHC 37 , 37.1 (31-37) g/dL RBC morphology NORMAL differential Neutrophils TOXIC +1 17100, 90% (2700-6700) /uL Lymphocytes 1140 , (LOW) 6%, (1500-5500) /uL , 1.0 LOW 5.6% (1.8 - 5.0)10*3/mm3 Monocytes 760 4%, 0-800 /uL , 0.2 (0.2-0.8)10*3/mm3 GRA: 17.7 HIGH 93.3% (3.0-7.0) 10*3/mm3 Eosinophils 0 Basophils 0 Platelet Estimate Adequate Platelet Count 49 LOW 100-400 10*3/uL (platelet clumps are present) Comment: Many WBC are too degenerated to identify. This may affect the accuracy of the differential. Fibrinogen (semi Quantitative) 461 HIGH (100-400) mg/dl Na+ 132 , 135 (126-146) mmol/L K+ 4.7 , 4.3 (2.5-5.2)mmol/L tCO2 22 , 21 (20-33)mmol/L CK 55 LOW , 58 LOW (120-470)U/L GLU 82 , 99 (65-110) Ca++ >16.0 HIGH, >16.0 HIGH(11.5-14.2) mg/DL BUN 14 , 20 (7-25)mg/dl Cre 1.3 , 1.3 (0.6-2.2) mg/dl AST 141 LOW, 131 LOW, 175-340 U/L TBIL 4.2 HIGH, 3.5 HIGH (0.5-2.3) mg/dl GGT 28 HIGH, 26 HIGH (5-24) U/L ALB 2.4, 2.3 (2.2-3.7) g/dl TP 9.4 HIGH , 8.9 HIGH(5.7-8.0) g/dl Glob 7.0 HIGH, 6.6 HIGH (2.7-5.0) g/dl Hem 0, Lip 0, ICT 1+ same on both days. Her blood tests look disturbing with all those highs and lows. I guess some of it can be attributed to the bacterial infection and some to anorexia. I hope something improves with these new drugs. update tomorrow, as always your ideas are much appreciated. |
| Member: scooter |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 4, 2010 - 7:05 am: Jackie is Dakotah still on pergolide? That can cause loss of appetite too, especially since she just started it.Hope Dr.O. can tell you what the blood tests mean, and Dakotah feels better soon. |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 4, 2010 - 10:17 am: Just got a call from the Vet. Dakotah is improved this morning! She is walking around her stall, took a big drink of water, eating a little hay and even escaped from her stall!!The chloramphenicol must be working. I am so happy that there is SOME improvement and I know she isn't out of the woods yet, but there is a light at the end of this tunnel. |
| Member: frances |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 4, 2010 - 2:32 pm: So glad to hear the encouraging news. Hope things continue to improve. |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Thursday, Nov 4, 2010 - 4:12 pm: When I went to visit Dakotah at the hospital today, she was much brighter. Nibbling a little hay, eating a piece of apple. Then the tech came and gave her the chloramphenicol. After that, she was turning her lip up a lot and as time went on, she looked like she felt terrible. Wouldn't eat anything I offered, head down, eyes half shut. It seemed like the drug made her feel sick. Is there anything I can give her to avoid this side effect? I thought we could make a paste from rice bran and give that to her with the meds. |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Nov 5, 2010 - 6:56 am: Jackie, have we got that belly tap yet? It is quick, it is easy, and may provide a diagnosis and would rule out inflammatory abdominal disease (cancer or abscess) if normal.Concerning the labs, the main message is that there is likely a bacterial infection somewhere though it would also be consistent with some virus or cancers that are associated with tissue necrosis. This is indicated by the elevated WBC count that is primarily do to toxic neutrophils. But the high globulin count also supports this. Most of the other changes are not specific for any particular problem and some could indeed be due to anorexia, like the high bilirubin. The one exception that is the high calcium. 16 mg/dl is pretty remarkable. Tetracycline does have some effect on blood calcium by tying it up and this may be such a effect but this is my conjecture. Hypercalcemia is also associated with parathyroid disease (rare), kidney failure (there are no other signs of this), vitamin D toxicosis, and many malignant cancers, but most commonly myeloma. I would be interested in phosphorous levels in the blood to help further elucidate this. DrO |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Friday, Nov 5, 2010 - 6:17 pm: Thanks for your thoughts, Dr. O. I have felt for a long time that Dakotah had cancer. It was getting hard to keep weight on her and she had frequent unexplainable, but managable, diarrhea. She often showed anemia when blood was tested and when she had a mild colic in August, her calcium level was also at 16.I am a little perplexed why, if elevated calcium and a sick horse are presented, no one told me that it is an indication of cancer. In fact after doing some research, I was concerned about the calcium (which has been in the upper normal range until August of this year)and posed a specific question in an email to the vet. She said Dakotah has never had true hypercalcemia and the PTHrP test wasn't warranted. It also upsets me that this Calcium level has been staring us in the face since Day 1 of this illness and I was told cancer was a possibility but could only diagnose by exclusion of other things. If I was told early on that yes Dakotah has a bacterial infection, abscess AND cancer, I probably wouldn't have elected to make her hang in there for 2 weeks while we find the right drug to treat the infection. It doesn't make sense to put her through this, not to mention the expense, when she willl probably continue to suffer from cancer and may die soon. I will have the cancer talk with my vet when she calls. My delema now is that when she was so very ill, I kept her alive in hopes of a recovery. Now she's starting to perk up and eat a little, and now I'm considering euthanasia because of this cancer component. I feel so sad and angry and sick. |
| Member: mrose |
Posted on Friday, Nov 5, 2010 - 7:16 pm: We had an older mare with cancer once. We finally did euthanize her, but as long as she was feeling good and was eating and interested in life, we kept her going. Imo, it's a "quality of life" issue. When a horse is feeling good, regardless of the diagnosis, I keep them going. If they are miserable, in pain with no hope of improving, then it's time to euthanize. You will know when it's time.I hope the both of you have a few more happy days together. |
| Member: lilo |
Posted on Friday, Nov 5, 2010 - 8:54 pm: Jackie - we have also lost a horse to cancer. Unfortunately it was originally misdiagnosed. Finally, after surgery to remove the tumor under his jaw, it was diagnosed accurately. The surgery bought him another 6 or 9 months, but than he went downhill very fast and we had to euthanize him. It was a very sad day for the whole family.I wish you and Dakotah the best. Lilo |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2010 - 7:33 am: thanks Lilo and Sara.. I'm sorry about your horses. I know how painful that must have been.It is something that sounds like the right thing to do. If she is feeling well, bring her home. Until the next time she isn't feeling well, then do I take her back to the hospital to find out why she isn't feeling well, other than cancer. If it's something else, then treat her again and when would this stop? I think the cancer itself is allowing these infections to take hold of her. If I had a little barn on my property I would certainly bring her home. As it stands now, she will go home to the boarding barn and will need to be give chloramphenicol every 6 hours around the clock for perhaps up to a month. It is a drug that requires special handling because of potential dangerous reaction in humans. Dr. O, what is the maximum survival time for horses when they are diagnosed with internal cancer? I know that is a question without a specific answer. Do horses die from the actual cancer or from secondary problems like infection? |
| Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2010 - 10:51 am: Jackie,I am sorry about all the issues with your mare. Has your mare been definitely diagnosed with cancer? As far as the chlorophenicol goes. I had a horse on it for a very bad bacterial knee infection. He got it every 8 hours for about three weeks. I treated him myself. The chlorophenicol was in a tube and I had no difficulties dealing with it, in fact it was probably one of the easiest antibiotic treatments because it was a paste. The horse was also on a regimen of other drugs at the time so, I used to wash the drugs down with cherry or strawberry-banana Maalox. It did clear up the infection and this was after he had been on other antibiotics for a very long period of time. As far as the cancer goes ( if this is what she ultimately has) and I hate to be this blunt, but the long and short of it is the same outcome. There are a lot of things to look at when trying to make the decision to euthanize an animal, but the biggest thing is quality of life. All animals have a way of letting you know that the end is near. I just lost my 17 year old cat last night, he told me that the end was near because he has been living in my beDrOom for 1 1/2 years and never wanted to leave it. He had been diagnosed with a soft tissue tumor about 6 months ago that eventually robbed him of the use of his leg, but only very recently. He was eating, drinking, and pooping like normal. The day before yesterday after never wanting to leave my room, all of a sudden he wanted out very badly, he even pushed down the baby gate(which I always leaned up against the door) to get out of the room.I knew something was weird. Yesterday, when I left for work, I put the baby gate up so he could not push it down. When I came home from work, the baby gate was still in place and cat was not in any of his usual places. I found him on the steps leading upstairs, he looked as if he was sound asleep and he was gone. He looked very peaceful. My decision not to have him euthanized when he was first diagnosed, had to do with his quality of life and for a 17 year old cat his quality of life was really quite good. The other reason was I wanted him to die at home, in a comfortable environment without the trauma of getting in cage or a car which he hated in order to go to the vet and die there. He died where and how he wanted and for that I am both grateful and thankful. What I am trying to say is that I think each animal is different and your mare will tell you when that right time is. Good luck and lets hope its just a bad infection that will clear up with the long term use of antibiotics. Prayers are with you and her Rachelle |
| Member: scooter |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2010 - 5:55 pm: Hope your pony is doing well Jackie, they are terribly resilient animals given the opportunity.As Rachelle says quality of life is usually the decider. Have you got a definite DX yet? Sorry about your cat Rachelle 
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| Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 6, 2010 - 7:18 pm: Thanks Diane,He lived a long very full life, outlived the three dogs he grew up with and is buried right next to his favorite dog of all time, who died a few years ago from mammary cancer. I can picture the two of them laying curled up on the floor together, him between her legs, they really got along well. I am glad he went peacefully. Rachelle |
| Member: lilo |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2010 - 9:53 am: Rachelle - so sorry about your cat. We lost one in a similar way. I put him to bed at night in the basement, in the morning he was lying on the carpet, dead. He must have been in his high teens also (a stray that adopted my son in college - he was not allowed to keep him in the dorms, of course, so we took him in).It is somewhat easier if one does not have to make that hard decision to have them euthanized. Jackie - all the best to you and Dakotah, Lilo |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2010 - 11:40 am: Rachelle, thanks for sharing the story about your cat. I know how hard it is to lose a beloved pet.Dakotah is a little brighter but still won't eat. She seems like she wants to eat, but doesn't. I took her outside and offer her grass and she really ate that up. I'm wondering if she has pain when she eats anything tougher than grass. There is an enlargement now on the right side of her face which appears to be a molar, but it is much bigger than the left side. She is very thin and weak and has a slight tremor in her muscles. Her eye is still a little weepy and has some clear discharge from her nostrils. She is walking around her stall and seems more comfortable in the back end but still shifts her weight from right to left. The swelling in her right fetlock is reduced to a slight swelling. She urinates very small amounts frequently and has very firm manure. She isn't eating and drinking a lot so maybe this explains it. Despite being on Chloramphenicol, her WBC is still high, and I just don't think a lot has changed as far as blood work goes. Here are the results (first value is from 11/05, 2nd value is from 11/07) WBC 13.7 HIGH , 17.5 HIGH (5.5-12.5) RBC 6.54, 6.33 Low (6.5-12.5) HGB 10.9 Low, 12.0 (11-19) HCT 29.9% LOW, 29.1% Low (32-52) PLT 75Low, 98 Low PLT flags : MIC (100-600) MCV 46 , 46 (36-52) MCH 16.6 , 19 , (12.3-19.7) MCHC 36.3 , 41.3 HIGH (34-39) RDW 16.7% Low, 17.2% (17-21) MPV 6.3 HIGH, 6.5 HIGH (4.0-6.0) WBC Flags: 11/05 EOS 2.3 Lym 7.9% 1.0 LOW;, 7.9%, 1.3 LOW (1.8-5.0) Mon 0.9% 0.1 LOW;, 1.3%, 0.2 (0.2-0.8) Gra 91.2% 12.6 High;,90.8% 16.0 High (3-7) Chem from 11/05 only: Na 127 (126-146) K 3.7 (2.5-5.2) tCO2 22 (20-33) CK 59 Low (120-470) Glu 108 (65-110) Ca++ >16 High BUN 17 (7-25) Cre 1.1 (0.6-2.2) AST 98 LOW (175-340) TBil 1.5 (0.5-2.3) GGT 22 (5-24) ALB 2.2 (2.2-3.7) TP 8.8 High (5.7-8.0) Glob 6.7 High (2.7-5.0 Hem 1+, Lip 0, Ict 0 I am pretty sure I will have her put down if I can find the courage to say it. I have swirled this in my mind for the past 2 weeks. Dakotah has been quite ill for 2 weeks with a brief period where she looked like she was turning the corner. The vets can't be certain of cancer since it is very difficult to find in horses. From everything I have read and from everything I have heard leads me to believe she has cancer. I think her test results support this. Dr. O, please tell me if I am way off course here. I cannot ship her back to the boarding barn in this physically debilitated state. For what ever reason she cannot eat nearly enough, even for maintenance. Her chances of recovering to live a quality life through this midwest winter is doubtfull and I don't want her to go through it. I will have a final consult with the vet and let her have some time in the sun eating grass. Dr. O, please let me know if my reasoning not in line with her clinical picture. (btw the belly tap wasn't done because my vet felt it was too invasive for not enough information) |
| Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2010 - 12:29 pm: Hi Jackie, I feel so bad for you reading your update. My old mare went through something similar years ago. It reminded me of your pony when you said it looks like she wants to eat but won't. My mare lost massive amount of weight, she started out rather plump so that helped her, I think she lost over #100 quite quickly. The only time my mare would eat normally was when we gave her banamine, once it wore off she wouldn't eat again. I really thought it was the end of her. She didn't even want grass!!!I can't decipher blood work enough to know if your pony will be OK or not. If you are interested here is the thread on my old mare. I have no idea what caused it for sure, but it was one scary incident. At the time I rough boarded her and had to go out every 4 hrs. to treat her. Everyone including the vet thought she was a goner, she is still in my pasture and 31 yo. Maybe something in there could help you. https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/11546.html |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 7, 2010 - 4:59 pm: Jackie, a high serum calcium is not an "indication" of cancer, there are several conditions associated with this including horses with unknown reasons for it, but it is associated with malignant cancers. As to survival rates and actual causes of death from internal cancers of horses there are no specific guidelines. By the time abdominal and thoracic cancerc are discovered in the horse prognosis is usually poor for long time survival.Jackie I cannot evaluate your horse from the behind a computer screen these are decisions that are best made by you working with your veterinarians. If you need a second opinion best would be to get a referral to someone who can examine your horse. DrO |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 8:24 am: I wanted to let you know that our sweet Dakotah was euthanized on Monday. It was a very difficult decision, but when I considered her quality of life today and in the weeks and months to come, I felt it was best. She hasn't been herself since spring and she had episodes of inappetance, weight loss and diarrhea that could not be explained. Even though she was getting a little brighter, she still wouldn't eat hay or grain and she was so physically debilitated. She lost 150 lbs in 2 weeks. I tried to think of how she would feel fighting this infection and just hanging in there for a long time. There were also signs that cancer could be playing a role in all of this as well. She still shifted her weight frequently from one hind leg to the other and wouldn't lay down. All of this and a guarded prognosis told me that it would be a long hard road to even coming close to the pony that she was. I didn't think it would be fair to put her through that and she spent her last day on earth out in the sun and eating grass. I will miss her so much I can't even put it into words.
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 9:14 am: Jackie I am so sorry, I could tell how attached you were to this mare, no words can probably make you feel any better. You did the right thing in not making her suffer.RIP Dakotah and hugs to you |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 9:23 am: My deepest condolences Jackie,DrO |
| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 10:14 am: I am so sorry Jackie. I believe she is in a better place and in very good company with my Dakota and his mom Fancy. Hugs to you and your family. |
| Member: hpyhaulr |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 10:37 am: Jackie,So sorry you had to make that painful decision. We're all proud of you for it. Hugs to you and Dakotah's little girl in the picture. |
| Member: frances |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 10:38 am: I'm so very sorry to hear this, Jackie, but no doubt it was the kindest thing to do. I can only imagine your grief - take care of yourself and do your best to focus on the happy memories.Hugs. |
| Member: lilo |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 10:49 am: So sorry to hear you had to make the hard decision that most of us will face someday or already have faced. And yet it is the most loving thing to do when there is no quality of life anymore.What a beautiful picture of a pony and her girl. Take care of yourself, Jackie. Lilo |
| Member: vickiann |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 11:16 am: I am sorry that you had to make this difficult but responsible decision, Jackie.It is a hard thing to do even when it is the right thing. You will surely miss her but it was unselfish of you to aid her departure before further deterioration took place. |
| Member: canter |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 11:52 am: My deepest sympathies, Jackie. I hope you find comfort in knowing you did all that you could for your lovely Dakotah and in the end, made the decision that was best for her. |
| Member: juliem |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 12:15 pm: Those ponies sure leave a big hole in your heart don't they? I guess that's so you can fill the hole with memories or her life with you. So sorry, Julie |
| Member: rtrotter |
Posted on Saturday, Nov 13, 2010 - 6:20 pm: My condolences to you and your family on your loss. Remember all the good memories.Rachelle |
| Member: bluedog1 |
Posted on Sunday, Nov 14, 2010 - 7:31 am: thanks to everyone with such heartfelt wishes. I am more at peace with it now but really miss having her in my life. I am now without a horse for the first time in nine years and not sure what I will do about that. Probably volunteer at the local equine rescue.Dr. O, I started this discussion in the PHF section, but please feel free to move this to wherever you feel it should go. I hope something can be learned from Dakotah's case. Thank you for providing such an incredible source of information to horse owners. I spent many hours here reading and learning. jackie |
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