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  Discussion on Effects of Long term treatment with Gastrgard
Author Message
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 9:19 am:

DrO and All at HA,
My horse has chronic gastric ulcers as a result of many surgeries and all that goes with that(with holding of feed, long term use of NSAIDS, long periods of stalling,etc). Even though all of the primary causes were years ago, he remains on maintenance doses of Gastrogard. We have tried to take him off of maintenance dose several times with no luck, so I do not forsee him going off of it, and I still hope to put him back into training ( next month, in fact). He now has dietary, stress, and turnout management, and all is well(for now)! My question is what are the risks of long term use of this "acid pump inhibitor?" I have read varying reports that it could cause "leaky gut" due to disturbing the natural ph of the gut. I would therefore like to get him on a good probiotic ... there are so many, and a horse product can apparently claim anything! Is that a good idea, DrO, and if so, what should I look for in a good probiotic?
Just to give some insight into his management ... He is on three meals a day of a Senior feed(beet pulp based), Turnout eight hrs. a day, dutch door to private paddock the rest of the day, alfalfa hay any time in stall and at night, and 1/3 tube Gastrogard each morning. He is 8 years old.
Thanks for any input, DrO, and all who suffer with these chronic gastric ulcer horses! You know the song"When something is wrong with my baby, something is wrong with me!"
Nancy
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 11:11 am:

Nancy, I sent you a private e-mail and decided to post here as well. Here is a web-page that may have some info you can use.

https://www.adeptusnutrition.com/
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 11:54 am:

Thanks Holly ... but I am still in the dark about if I should,and, if I should, what kind of probiotics I should give to give him! I am not the best at searching websites, etc, so I may well have missed something you wanted me to see!
Hope to hear more from ya!
Nancy
P.S. Did not get the private email!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 12, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Nancy,
A well designed probiotics will not help in any way that I know of with the ulcer situation but may increase feed efficiency some, see Care for Horses » Nutrition » Probiotics and Yeast Culture Products.

The best management techniques for ulcers are described in the article on Gastric Ulcers. If you are stalling 16 hours a day you can make some improvements there.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 8:50 am:

DrO,
I was just wondering if there is any truth to the theory that long term use of Gastrogard(which I assume lowers the ph of the gut) would cause problems because of the constant lowering of the ph of the gut? I am beginning to stall him more now(the 16 hrs) as he will get no turnout when he goes back to the training barn. He will definitely get a lot of exercise daily, but, as you probably know, these show horses live in the barn during show season. I am hoping the alfalfa hay in the stall at all times, and the breaking up of the meals will, hopefully, alleviate this problem ... and maybe I can bring him home(to the pasture) on some off weekends.
Is there any way that the long term use of Gastrogard could cause gastrointestinal problems later on down the road? I think I am doing all I can as far as management of the ulcers ... it just scares me that I could be facing more problems later due to the long term use of this medication! Is there any truth to the prognosis of "leaky gut" due to the lowering of the ph of the gut for so long? I wish I could remember where I read this ... someone posted this somewhere on this site !
Thanks. I bet he won't be able to go back into training, but I am going to give it a try ... what a shame! I don't know what else I can do for him besides putting him out in the pasture(which, since he is so used to being a show horse, he comes to the gate when HE wants to come in if he gets too hot, flies, etc). AND, I don't mind doing any of this for him, BUT it would be fun to take him to the show again!
Nancy
Member:
Bobs

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 12:45 pm:

For humans, long term use with products like Gastrogard(omeprazole) have not caused any problems
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 1:37 pm:

Thanks
Maybe he will be okay ... had not thought about the humans on Omeprazole forever. My own husband is one of them, and I have to laugh at myself. He always says he needs to grow a mane and a tail to get any attention! Of course, human and equine guts are different, but human studies will have to do for now! Again another hilarious statement ... I know that the FDA does things the other way around, with animal testing first. Well, I guess they don't realize we horse owners would prefer it the other way around(ha ha)!
Nancy
New Member:
Angelvet

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 11:19 am:

Nancy,Just thought I'd add in my two cents worth here.I have racehorses training and racing at the track that I have maintained on omeprazole for two or more years with no apparent issues to their gut health. Most of these horses are in heavy training and competition the majority of the year with only short 2-3 week freshening breaks a couple of times during the year.Taking them off their meds was more of a problem, as some would immediately go off feed and have problems within a few weeks.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 11:43 am:

Thank you, Angel, that is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I know what you mean about the negative results that can happen when a horse gets taken off who needs constant omeprazole ... we tried it (coming off) several times on my guy. NO WAY he can function without it! It is good to hear that your horses are having no negative results from the long term use!
Thanks again for taking the time to post your info. If you ever have any more info. on your use of Omeprazole, please post again!
Nancy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 2:01 pm:

I do not know any work to suggest the above advice is not right.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 4:10 pm:

Thanks,DrO. Equine Chronic Ulcers are not fun at all ... I wish they would go away, but I think they are here to stay. I'll just have to keep them at bay with the management and the Omeprazole, and prayer! If anyone else "out there" has experiences with resolving gastric ulcer issues, please let me know ...
Nancy
Member:
Pbauer

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005 - 4:40 pm:

Hi Nancy,

There was a discussion on bananas helping with ulcer issues in horses. I feed, Topper, a banana
once-a-day...he loves them!

When we get, Kidder, home, he will get a banana once-a-day, too.

Bananas have helped bring my blood pressure down to a normal range..

Best,
Tonya
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 - 7:34 am:

When this was posted before I ran a literature search on horse, ulcer and banana, and found nothing. However if I run a search on banana and ulcer I find a small body of research on rats that indicate a ulcer protective effect from bananas. The work is a bit conflicting and the effect may be dependent of the variety of banana, may only be in unripe bananas, and might only be seen in extract concentrations far above what might be possible with voluntary consumption. Stay tuned for more.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005 - 9:07 am:

I'll definitely stay tuned ... in the meantime, I'll see if my guy will eat a banana today. I remember the discussion on bananas, I think, about the folks who were in the USA from other countries for the Olympics? who were feeding bananas? Maybe they know something we don't. I'll try anything! Horse people are the best!
Nancy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 16, 2005 - 8:47 am:

Nancy, without some work on variety, ripeness, dosage, and efficacy in horses I don't find any rational in feeding bananas to horses.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Thursday, Jun 16, 2005 - 10:25 am:

DrO
My guy wondered what in the world was I doing offering him a banana anyway, so, without further studies, I think I will not go to extreme measures trying to figure out how to get him to ingest a banana. Still, thanks for the suggestion, Tonya!
Nancy
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Thursday, Jun 16, 2005 - 10:48 am:

I think it was my discussion you're thinking about...While my horse loved his bananas...and I may give him some slices once in a while on a stressful day just in case it *might* help...I won't be doing it on a regular basis.

I have another option which I'd like to hear Dr. O's opinion of...I have heard of people giving their horses papaya to prevent ulcers...Dr. O, I have searched the internet and evidently papaya is used by humans for ulcers...could this possibly help?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 9:12 am:

There is only one paper that I can find in the medical and scientific literature that addresses this issue:

Am J Chin Med. 1981 Autumn;9(3):205-12.

Protective effects of Carica papaya Linn on the exogenous gastric ulcer in rats.

Chen CF, Chen SM, Chow SY, Han PW.

The effects of Carica papaya Linn on exogenous ulcer and histamine-induced acid secretion were studied in rats. The latex of the unripened fruit of C. papaya was effective in protecting the exogenous ulcer. It significantly lessened the acid secretion induced by intravenous infusion of histamine in chronic gastric fistulated rats. Crystalline papain was also effective in protecting the exogenous ulcer and in decreasing the histamine-induced acid secretion in rats. The conclusion is that papain is the active principle in C. papaya that exerts the ulcer-protective effect.

I can find nothing about its use in horses or humans for gastric ulcers. While the above paper is interesting, further work would have to be done before suggesting its use.
DrO
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 1:28 pm:

Thanks Dr. O...I actually am giving him a few bits of dehydrated papaya when he gets upset...and it does seem to visibly reduce the white in his eyes after a few minutes and he even seems to smile as he tries to nuzzle me for more...but who knows.
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 10:53 am:

DrO, thanks for the heads up on the research, even though done only in rats , so far. Aileen, I do not think it would hurt anything to try some papaya on my boy! Man, I hope he likes it ... I am assuming that you find your papaya at the Health Food Store.
And, DrO, I will ALWAYS be interested in any research that could affect the way gastric ulcers could be managed in horses. It looks like this will be a life long condition for this horse!
Thanks again, DrO and Aileen. Any info beats sitting around and wondering!
Nancy
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 12:09 pm:

Just remember we're all guessing...the holistic vets seem to think this is ok...but due to recent experiences (not ulcer related), I'll forever question it until proven. I found this site:

https://www.stomachsoother.com/

They are also talking about licorice (sp?) working as well.
Member:
36541

Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 9:08 pm:

Hi Nancy,
I don't know if you are following the thread on when to feed re exercise, but Christos gave a fascinating link, the first of two, that you might find a good read with respect to the history of equine gastric research and the current state of affairs. Good luck, Stacy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 8:32 am:

Only if the information is interpreted properly Nancy and these reports do not support the idea that bananas or papaya are useful treatments or preventives in the case of gastric ulcers in horses. Even if the work holds up under reevaluation that they have stomach protective properties there are dozens of other properties that need to be addressed before you could consider this useful.
DrO
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 11:03 am:

At this point, I think I'll consider it useful if it seems to work on MY guy! With the lack of abundant research ,I think we will just try some things(along with proper management, which will ALWAYS be a part of his routine). My husband, who also has a "bad stomach" will not try the aloe juice I brought in for my horse, neither will he try the papaya, so I guess, my horse will have to be the experimental study!
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 2:54 am:

Dear Aileen also for Nancy,

It is very interesting you bring up licorice. My horse loves red licorice. The owner before me used to colic this poor horse at least twice a year. He almost died a couple of times. He has had no surgery at all.

Now three years later(knock on wood) he has not had a problem.

When I ended up with him I was eating licorice one day. He wanted some in fact he wanted all of it. Of course I only give him up to 5 pieces a day.

He is also on Neighlox, canola oil, apple cider vinegar(aids in digestion)and occasionally U7 by Finish Line. Then the once a month purge for sand. Sand Clear 99 or the equivalent.

Good Luck!!

WTG
Member:
Redalert

Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Hey WTG,
I just bet your changes in this horse's life besides the addition of licorice, have more to do with your outcome! Sounds like a really great treat though, that might possibly be beneficial!Who Knows! Thank you for letting me know what's working for you , though!
By the way,UNBELIEVABLY BEAUTIFUL picture of a very glossy horse going over that jump(I love to check out the profiles of the folks I'm talking to.)
Nancy
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 11:00 am:

I agree with Nancy...I bet it's your great care that has helped him significantly, WTG! I also agree that your photo is gorgeous!

There are some herbal supplements out there for horses that include licorice,yeast and something else...I'll see if I can find them.

btw, Dr. O, I know I'm probably driving you crazy, so I'll put a disclaimer on this that there is no scientific proof that any of this works.
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 11:06 am:

Found one:

https://www.naturallyequine.com/digestion.shtml
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 4:40 am:

Dear Aileen and Nancy,

Thank you so much for your gracious comments. It makes me so proud to have had such great success with Aly. Although, he was very difficult in the beginning.

Unfortunately we just lost his left eye on June 1, 2005.

His progress has been encouraging. He has been jumping wonderfully.

That photo is from Indio 2003. We took 3 2nd (jumping), 3 3rd(jumping), 4 4th (jumping), 2 5th (under saddle & baby green), and other ribbons at his first ever national horse show where most of the classes had to be split because there were so many entries. We did the LA opener which was his first show ever the month before Indio. He place 3rd in schooling hunters out of 72 entries, 4th in baby green out of 92 entries and 5th in baby green against 102 entries(he waivered on the last line-he thought he was done). We also took 3rd in the rusty stirrup equitation. I had not taken any lessons for two months prior to the shows. I had not jumped an entire course or shown for 23yrs. You could say I was estatic. I was so happy!!

I just posted a list of Alys supplements in another discussion. I'm sure you both can access the post or it may get emailed to you. I have always believed in certain supps but if there are some new supps worth investigating please email or post them.

Good Luck and God Bless and the animals and all of the people who take care of them!!

WTG
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