This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Neurological Conditions Not Covered Above » Neurological topics not covered above. »
  Discussion on Suspected Head and Neck Trauma
Author Message
New Member:
shanstat

Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2010 - 5:05 pm:

I have a dutch warmblood yearling "Ruby" and board at my parents farm. Up until this point shes been a healthy active filly and is about 15.1 hh and about 850lbs.

Nov 22 - my mom found her lying down in the pasture (in the snow in -15 degrees C). She got up by herself but seemed a bit disoriented, her head covered in snow, gaits seemed normal but her behaviour was off: avoiding people, VERY head shy and looked extremely uncomfortable, but would eat hay. At this point I thought she was colicky and the vet came out to assess her. When I put the halter on she seemed very sore, and stiff in her neck. HR was 44, temp 37.2 (Celcius), good gut sounds. The vet thought perhaps she took a bad fall in the snow and injured her neck or head, pupils were reactive, but Ruby wouldnt raise her head up higher than chest height and would not flex at the poll and very limited movement laterally. The vet gave her some banamine and instructed to give 2g bute for 5 days and if she was still showing symptoms after that she would do xrays.

Nov 23 & 24 - no change, still not raising head up, eating and drinking, flat affect, still very head shy and avoiding people. Swelling to throat latch area noted. Not able to flex at poll.

Nov 25 - Unable to catch, tried powder bute in feed, no luck. Still same behavior. Vet aware that unable to give bute. Will do xrays on Monday if no change.

Nov 26 - absolutely no change from day one, remains slightly depressed, limited movement to head and neck, glassy eye appearance. Still has swelling to throat latch and cheeks.

My question is: if this was just soft tissue trauma, would you start to see any improvement yet? My worry is that this more than soft tissue and potentially a concussion, head injury or fracture occurred. She is definitely not herself, there have been moments that i wonder about her eyesight, but she moves her head away when trying the "menace" check - not alot of blinking though. I know we wont know more unless she gets xrays, but any insight you have would be great.

Thanks so much for your help!

Shannon
Member:
36541

Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2010 - 7:23 pm:

Gosh Shannon, so sorry to welcome you to HA under these circumstances. Unfortunately a lot of us joined the same way, myself included, so I do know the worry and anxiety you must be feeling. I wish I could offer any neurologic reassurance - it is certainly good that your girl will still eat and drink, sending healing thoughts Ruby's way... Stacy
Member:
paul303

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 12:56 am:

Oh, Shannon, how awful. It is tough to welcome you this way. We're right in the middle of Thanksgiving, too...which might mean a small delay if Dr.O is away.

I can see how important it is to get the bute in her. I use a 60cc syringe with a catheter tip and mix powdered bute in applesauce and give it like wormer. I have a mare who came to me head shy and nasty. She got very ill in the first year and had to spend about a week in the hospital on intravenous fluids and antibiotics and endured countless blood draws, internals, x-rays and, finally scoping - where they discovered that she was "riddled with ulcers", in both sections of her stomach. She came home weak and enraged and determined to not allow anyone near her. But I had all kinds of medications to get in her each day. To top that off, the vets told me it was important not to stress her....yet, even MORE important was to make sure ALL her meds were administered on time.

Long story short, we found that the lip chain worked best, and we NEVER had to apply real pressure with it. I padded her halter and left it on to make catching her easier. She was confined to a small paddock with her buddy. It took 2 to 3 of us to administer the meds for the first 2 weeks...one person controlled the halter and lip chain, another distracted with wither scratching, singing....whatever, and the third slipped in with the syringe and gently held the lower jaw following administration. By the time we got the whole operation down to about 15 seconds ( always followed by the best treat possible ), it took only one person to do it. After the first month, we didn't need the lip chain. Today, she's a breeze to worm or medicate. After 2 months of the ulcer treatment, she became a different horse. She's a completely trustworthy sweetheart now. Man, what ulcers can do to a horse! There have been two relapses, during times of lameness when the vet wanted her on bute or banamine. No problem administering the gastroguard.

Due to the swelling, the Bute seems crucial. You're now 4 days out and with no change, it seems that x-rays will be necessary. My only other suggestion would be to either hold or bandage an ice bag or a bag of frozen peas to her throat latch. But perhaps she's too young to tolerate that.

If you try the syringe, make sure that you have enough people to help, at least, in the beginning. As sore as her poll and throat latch are, she might give you less trouble than you think.

Be careful yourself, working with youngsters is always a challenge. Hopefully you'll just be dealing with soft tissue injury.

Best of luck to you. Dr.O will probably be checking in soon.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 8:31 am:

I have a 22 year old Arab mare who has on 2 different occasions showed some of the signs your filly is showing. She walked with her head down, and to the side. In her case it seemed painful for her to raise or lower it, she would very very carefully lower her head to eat. The one time I did see where a horse had slide into a fence post. (covered t-posts) She was also very "DrOopy" acting. It resolved itself in a few days. I gave Bute also.

I worry though about your filly as you say she has a glassy eyed appearance. That to me sounds like more than a stiff neck.

If I were in your place I would be doing a lot of massage work on her as I wait for more thorough check up. I believe we don't give enough credit to the power of TOUCH.

Ideally one would start massaging at her poll but in this case I would start at her withers and move slowly up her neck. Start with a feather light touch, increase to touching like you are poking a raw egg yolk. Then keep watching her reaction. If she BLINKS, work that area a bit harder. You want to work along her neck up to her poll. Follow her shoulder areas too.

Take as much time as you need to do this. I would blanket her too as she may be chilled more easily during your body work.

As for giving Bute, I have had great success using a large syringe. I mix up a bit of corn oil, and molasses first, then add the powdered Bute or whatever med. Mix it more. The molasses for sweetness, the corn oil makes it go down smoothly. I keep dipping the syringe in molasses and offering it to the horse, putting it in their mouth a bit, letting them taste it. Eventually we are both oily and sticky but the medicine does go down!

Having had wars with my Arab mare many times I would strongly suggest doing the massage/molasses method before trying to have 3 people hold her down, lol! Been there done that...horse won.

I hope she is o.k. soon.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 9:31 am:

Welcome Shannon,
I am sorry to hear about your filly. You cannot rule in or out soft tissue trauma by the swelling at this point, the swelling may be secondary to the unusual head carriage. Unless the swellings are hot and painful the age, lack of fever, and symptoms you describe are suggestive of trauma to the neck and possibly cervical vertebrae instability. You are right radiography is your next best step.
DrO
Member:
frances

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 10:32 am:

Good luck with your horse, Shannon. Are you still unable to catch her? That must be so frustrating at a time like this.
New Member:
shanstat

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 1:51 pm:

Thank you everyone for your supportive comments!
I haven't even tried to catch Ruby the past 2 days, I'm just trying to gain her trust back at this point. It takes a while to even touch her. My worry with giving her bute with a syringe is that she pull back and do more damage. The first two days on bute (I was giving the IV stuff orally) she was ok but kept throwing her head up. The vet said her fighting it could cause more swelling and damage. So at this point i think the only way to get bute in her is in her feed...which is challenging! I tried mixing with baby food carrots (I read that on this site somewhere - she loves carrots) and grain and pellets - no luck whatsoever. My moms 28 y/o gelding sure wanted a taste though! Any tips on disguising bute in feed would be much appreciated.

In terms of how she is today - not much change. She seems maybe a bit brighter, great appetite, but still not raising her head or neck up.

Another question for Dr O: If by chance there is a cervical fracture what is the treatment, if any? Any idea on prognosis? I suppose it depends on the type and location of the fracture. Your expert opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again - this is a fantastic site!

Shannon
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 2:10 pm:

If she like apples coring out an apple and placing meds in there helps, be sure to follow with a non tainted apple.

I have always "melted" my bute tabs in water added a little molasses to the water, brown sugar or something sweet, mixed well into feed and they didn't even notice the bute. If you have bute powder, mix it well with something sweet and sticky, then mix well into wet feed. Hope something here might help

We should have a thread on how to disguise bute someday I have many more Hope your horse feels better soon.
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 2:11 pm:

Shannon - have you tried dried molasses - it's sorta a crystal type consistency - my horses love it - if you can get some of it - you might be able to hand feed the bute with it - Robberman licks the smell out of his pan when I give it to him -- Have you tried clicker training ? It's a great way to gain trust - and work out fear for the horse -- Good luck - there is nothing worse than having a horse hurt and not knowing what to do about it -
Member:
shirl

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 3:02 pm:

Shannon if you have any on hand you might try mixing the Bute with Eq. Senior and bran - moisten it a little. Works for my horse. Sorry you have to go through this.

Shirl
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2010 - 3:28 pm:

My horses will take anything if I put it in raspberry Apple sauce. Grind fine first. I use a big syringe but you can mix with bran also. Bran works better than sweet feed as the particles stick better instead of getting sifted out. Some horses love peanut butter and it's great as it sticks in their mouth. Good luck! It helps that she is young.
Member:
frances

Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 - 8:44 am:

There's a thread on giving bute at: Treatments and Medications for Horses - Anti inflammatories - Phenylbutazone - Disguising Bute - Got Tricks?

But the ideas are basically the same as those above, i.e. molasses, apple sauce, carrots etc. Although someone mentioned that giving a peppermint candy first worked for some reason.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 - 9:50 am:

Shannon, a fracture could be treated. It would be similar to the evaluation and options available with cervical instabiliy. For more on this see HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » Wobblers or Cervical Stenotic Myelopathy.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 - 5:11 pm:

I ground up antibiotic tablets and mixed them with about 3 - 4 TBS of raspberry applesauce and a little molasses and then mixed this with the usual feed pellets for one of mine. With him, the key was not to make the mixture any wetter than absolutely necessary.

For another horse I syringed the mixture of ground pills, molasses/corn syrup into his mouth as best I could right next to his feed bucket and then dumped his feed pellets and some shredded T & A cubes immediately into the bucket in front of him. Whatever ran out of his mouth fell onto the food and was then eaten.

It seems to take a bit of trial and error with each individual horse.

Sometimes the ones you think would eat anything are the toughest customers!

Good luck.
Member:
judyhens

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 - 5:00 pm:

Hi Shannon,
Just wondered how Ruby was doing. We sold an Andalusian colt that suffered a head injury the first night at his new home. X-rays of the head and neck were normal, but he was initially ataxic. The vet gave him meds (I think to control/ minimize brain swelling). He warned that recovery could be slow. Happy to report that the baby has virtually recovered. Now running and playing again. Very, very frightening to all of us though. I can empathize with your fears. Let us know how she is doing.
Blessings,
Judy
New Member:
shanstat

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 - 8:52 pm:

Hello
Ruby is doing a bit better, a little less stiff in her neck, and seems more comfortable. I spoke with the vet today, she said because she isnt showing any neurological deficits, it would be best to give her a few weeks healing time and see how she does. She said the xrays are quite invasive because the horse needs to be under general anesthetic and flipped on her back - which has its own risks too. Also, if a fracture was present, conservative management would probably still be indicated in most cases. Surgical intervention just isnt a option financially unfortunately - and closest surgical center is 4 hours away.

So I've just been spending lots of time with her just to gain her trust back which is getting better. I tried mixing the bute with most of the suggestions you all gave - the most she ate was with the dried molasses (thanks for the tip!).

Once she gets more comfortable being around me, I will do some massage and there is an equine therapist who will do some treatments as well - avoiding moving her neck of course.

I will keep you posted. Thanks again for everyones supportive comments!

Shannon
Member:
frances

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2010 - 6:44 am:

So glad she's showing improvement! I think your vet's ideas make sense - here's hoping that time and good care will bring the outcome we all wish for your mare.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2010 - 3:28 pm:

Hello Shannon,
Given the therapeutic limitations you describe in your last post, I think the decision to postpone radiography is fine. But I disagree with your veterinarian's assessment that general anesthesia is required as a first step to radiograph. If you are looking for a fracture standing lateral radiographs may be all that is needed. As to cervical instability there is a good chance that it too could be diagnosed with standing laterals using the techniques described in the article on Cervical Instability.
DrO
New Member:
shanstat

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2010 - 3:36 pm:

Yes, sorry - just to clarify, she said we could do portable lateral views, however she said that it may not pick up a fracture and if so would require the more invasive xrays. But I will have a look at the info you provided. Its one of those decisions as to what the treatment would be if a fracture was found, and in my case (financially) conservative management would probably still be the way we would go.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Friday, Dec 3, 2010 - 12:08 am:

Shannon, are you using the flavored bute powder?
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC