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Discussion on Rain rot on belly?
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 2010 - 8:42 pm:
Hi Dr. O.,
Seems I can't catch a break this year. My horse has had small scabby bumps on his girth area and belly for the past 2 weeks (note he is not being ridden hence the girth is not the issue). Now they are much more dense in the girth area so I figure it is time to solve it. The scabs come off with the hair attached and he is obviously very itchy. Based on your description, is sure sounds like mild Dermatophilus but the location and pruritus doesn't seem to fit. I read through the many of the skin disease articles you have posted; any suggestions on what I might have missed here?
Thanks again!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 2010 - 6:57 pm:
If it looks like dermatophilus then I would treat it as such the appearance as described in the article is very characteristic and can happen anywhere.
DrO
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 29, 2010 - 9:07 am:
Thanks Dr. O. - will do!
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 29, 2010 - 7:46 pm:
Hi Dr. O.,
One more quick question. As he is very itchy, he is scratching himself (with his teeth) in some of the area that I am spraying betadine on(after the betadine scrub). According to the label you don't want to eat this stuff so...should I just be using the scrub and rinsing in areas where he can reach and betadine spray the rest, or is he likely consuming too little to worry about?
Thanks again!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 30, 2010 - 10:23 pm:
Likely to be too little to worry about.
DrO
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2011 - 8:00 am:
Hi Dr. O.
Once I get all the scabs off and down to the skin, do I keep using the betadine or would something like hibitane help sooth the skin a bit better and maybe stop the itching?
Thanks again!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2011 - 1:51 pm:
I am not sure that chlorhexidine would be less irritating but is one of the treatments discussed in the article. I don't normally see irritation with either chemical.
DrO
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2011 - 2:52 pm:
Thanks Dr. O.,
Just worried as he is still so itchy. Seem to have it under control on the belly but still some scabs in the folds in his "armpits". Added in a few photos. The first one is a close-up of the skin behind the girth area and the other shows the affected skin folds at his elbows (bottom) and the same girth area as seen in the first photo. The red/orange is just sunshine.
 
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 2:33 pm:
You could try a little over the counter hyDrOcortisone creme on the pruritic areas but since dermatophilus, and the treatment of it, is not usually that pruritic I wonder if something else might be going on? Mites cause hair loss and itching.
DrO
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 3:42 pm:
Hi Dr. O,
I suppose it could be mites but this is a horse that is groomed regularly, and none of the other horse's have anything similar. Would that make a difference? I assumed it wasn't an allergic reaction as it had scabs in an area he could not scratch (and with treatment the area has gotten smaller). I'll take a look at the mite section.
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 3:59 pm:
Ok, after reading the stuff on mites I am not sure what to say anymore, other than "my whole body is one big itch right now!"
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 4:13 pm:
hummmmm, that looks like mange to me...Ive seen that condition on coyotes.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 4:34 pm:
Lynn in the picture of your horse in the hoof thread he has a blanket on, I have seen blankets cause this reaction before, is that possible?
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 7:35 pm:
Hi Gang,
Thanks for the interest. Took a closer look at the skin (on my back under the beast-a little scary). As a wildlife biologist I have handled lots of animals with mange but have never seen it on a horse. In all cases I saw in the wild, the skin was very thick and hard, however, Peety's skin is still very soft. Anyone had the chance to deal with a confirmed case of mites in horses that can help me out with more details on how the skin felt?
Hi Diane, I supposed we can't rule out anything but this is his third year in a blanket and I try to keep them clean (only washed in very little hypo-allergenic soap with a double rinse cycle). It doesn't actually touch any of the affected areas so I'm assuming that is not the problem. Too cold to send him out naked to test the idea I'm afraid.
Great ideas gang. Figure I'll keep it up with the betadine and maybe do some ivermectin and see where that gets us. If it isnt' better soon I'll see if I can talk my vet into doing an actual scrapping; she isn't big on any sort of lab stuff.
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 27, 2011 - 7:35 am:
Hi Gang,
Figured I'd update this post. I hate it when I check out a post and never find out what happened. I have been picking off the small scabs and spraying betadine on his belly, between front legs, and on his elbows. I gave one dose of ivermectin on January 19th. Looks like the stuff on his belly is almost all cleared up. No more scabs and the skin is nice and soft and fur is growing back. The fur is also growing back on his elbows and between front legs but I am still picking about one or two small scabs every two days. I'm going to stop the betadine on his belly and just spot touch the scabs and hopefully this will keep healing well. In addition, the itchiness stopped about Jan 13th (I figure that can only be a good sign!).
Cheers
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 27, 2011 - 9:18 am:
Thanks for the update! Lilo
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 27, 2011 - 10:48 am:
Glad to hear of this improvement.
Thanks for letting us know.
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 7:41 am:
Hi Dr O (et al),
Unfortunately this skin issue started up again late last week. No pus, just small pumps and hair loss, slightly scaly, but soft, and really, really, itchy. Same locations; under belly, on elbows, and between front legs. Also a some bumps without hair loss on sides of barrel and upper front legs. I am treating the same way as before but was wondering if this might be something other than dermatophilus. Any other ideas?
Thanks
Lynn
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Member:
lsweeney
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Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 9:49 pm:
This is just a success story that I thought might help others.
My older Arab mare usually gets some rain rot through the winter and
into spring. I usually just pick off the scabs and then as she sheds
out, it goes away. No big deal.
Well, this one year she got something on her pastern that was thinning
her hair. I wondered if I had inadvertantly moved the bacteria there
since I probably handled her rain rot areas and then picked up her
feet. Anyway, at first I didn't worry much about it. Figured it
would fix itself as we moved into summer. Well, it didn't. The hair
was getting thinner, the skin redder (it was a white sock), and then I
started noticing the coronet band starting to show signs that it was
getting involved and it was also moving up the leg.
So I got serious about it. The vet took some skin scrapings and found
nothing.
She gave me some medicated stuff with Tea oil I believe that I put on
half ass. Then more seriously as nothing was impacting this.
Eventually I was scrubbing with Betadine and treating daily, and finally
making a dent in it, but if I left it alone, it would come back.
I got over to Horseadvice.com and read an exhaustive post on what to do
for scratches. Hundreds of people writing in with their secret recipe.
I decided to take all of the home remedies and throw them together.
So this is what I did:
First soak the leg in Betadine until all of the scabs are soft.
Remove all of the scabs.
Then put some kind of disinfectant salve on the area - I used a Novasome
cream.
Then I took Desitin and lathered it all over the area - thick.
Now the beauty of the Desitin is that it is so thick, it sticks to the
leg, and stays there. So I could leave it like that for a week, and
while it would pick up dust and crap, it never let the skin see the
light of day, which killed off the bacteria or fungus or whatever I was
battling. Also, since this was very time consuming, if my life got in
the way of the treatment, it was o.k. I could do the soaking and
cleanup once a week.
So I take my horses to Point Reyes, California for a few days. We have
a good time. The final day, we go to the beach, and I let my horses
play in a fresh water pool close to the beach. They splashed around in
it.
I get home.
The next day, all three of my horses are having some skin issues on
their legs. My Arab was the worse. Her legs were all stocked up,
with crud starting from the fetlock all the way up to the belly.
Nikki, our older Friesian was showing signs of something that was rain
rot-like up her back legs all the way to her stifle joint. The
youngest horse, Myntje, didn't have any open skin issues, but was
itching like crazy. It was like the youngest horse with the strongest
immune system was doing the best fighting it. And the oldest horse was
being taken over.
I almost sat down and cried since I had just won the battle with the one
small spot on my Arab's pastern, and now I had 8+ whole legs to
battle. I didn't know if I could afford that much Desitin, which isn't
cheap when you are ordering it in volumes. Plus the regimen that was
going to be required to treat it.
It was also becoming clear that my annual Pt. Reyes trip may be where my
horses were picking this stuff up. There was another couple who had
their horses in at the vet for the same thing after the same trip.
I found generic versions of both the Desitin and Novasome salves. I
bought gallons of the stuff.
I then proceeded to take a 1/2 a day of soaking, picking scabs, and
slopping my creams and solutions on their legs.
It worked like a charm. I killed the stuff on all of the horses.
I have heard stories of people considering putting their horses down
because they couldn't beat this stuff.
So this is my success story.
It may be particularly useful to Friesians, that don't want to shave
their legs. While I'm sure you will have a gooey, hairy mess, I bet
you could get rid of it without shaving their hair.
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Member:
lsweeney
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Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2011 - 9:53 pm:
I also had a horse that appeared to be allergic to flies, but after worming with Ivermectin, all of the skin infections cleared up. It appears that she was allergic to the worm eggs that are deposited by the flies. Just another thought.
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 7:31 am:
Thanks for the ideas Laurie,
It has just warmed up enough for any flies to even begin to show their faces and the last episode was in the depth of winter (I live in northern Canada) so I think we can rule out flies  . Not sure I'm mentally prepared to go the cream route...it would be an awful lot of horse to cover! (although I might just change my mind on that one in the near future-so thanks for the ideas). Unfortunately I do go out of town quite a bit for work so I am hoping like crazy that I can hit this hard with the betadine over the next few days then the summer sun will help me out. I'll keep you posted.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 7:22 pm:
Hello LynnL,
Not having seen the horse sure there are lots of possibilities. But if you have the typical lesions as described in the dermatophilus article chances are that is what you have. To read about other causes of hair loss see, HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Hair and Coat Problems / Itching / Irritated Skin » Overview of Hair Loss & Irritated Skin.
DrO
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Member:
lsweeney
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 9:50 pm:
You might try it on some of your bad patches and see if it helps.
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2011 - 8:29 am:
Hi Dr. O.
I have been quite diligent on keeping the skin "thing" under control using betadine such that every time the vet comes out (for other reasons) there is nothing to show her except a few small bumps. So I still don't have an actual diagnosis. I might need to just let it get ugly and call her out.
Meanwhile, can I water-down the betadine and still make it effective? I am worried about what the effect this might eventually have on his skin from my applying it every few days.
thanks
Lynn
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2011 - 1:31 pm:
I would not dilute the betadine if it is being applied to unbroken skin, otherwise you could try cutting it in half.
DrO
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Member:
lynnland
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 7:22 am:
Hi Laurie,
Sorry, I missed your post about the ivermectin. I did try that in the winter and he actually was wormed with ivermectin/praziquantel before the latest bout started. Bummer, as that would have been an easy fix!
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